Total frustration with IOS 8.0.2 on iPhone 4s, what is going on?
PLEASE HELP!! Total frustration with IOS 8.0.2... what a nightmare. Can't get important apps to work.. that I use everyday... can't connect to WIFI... Phone crashes repeatedly (4s) ... it hangs... it takes 5-10 minutes to boot.... battery drains very quickly.
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digis wrote:
If your device was not functioning, you might rant a little too!!
No, I wouldn't. At worst, I might sigh, then start troubleshooting the issue.
This is a technical support forum, not an emotional support forum.
What troubleshooting steps have you tried?
Here are some:
Basic Troubleshooting Steps when all else fails
- Quit the App by opening multi-tasking bar, and swiping the App upward to make it disappear. (For iOS 6, holding down the icon for the App for about 3-5 seconds, and then tap the red circle with the white minus sign.)
- Relaunch the App and try again.
- Restart the device. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1430
- Reset the device. (Same article as above.)
- Reset All Settings (Settings > General > Reset > Reset All Settings)
- Restore from backup. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1766 (If you don't have a backup, make one now, then skip to the next step.)
- Restore as new device. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4137 For this step, do not re-download ANYTHING, and do not sign into your Apple ID.
- Test the issue after each step. If the last one does not resolve the issue, it is likely a hardware problem.
Similar Messages
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Totally frustrated with Apple!!!!!
I have authorized my sisters computer to play movies/songs that I have purchased using my account. However some of the movies won't even pull up in itunes. when I log into my account and try to download them i get a message.."if you download past purchases with your apple ID you can not auto download or download purchases with a different apple ID for 90 days" ... What is the point in being able to authorize 5 computers to your account if it doesn't work ... HELP, I am totally frustrated with apple and it's many products
If you redownload your past purchases on that computer then you will tie that computer to your account for 90 days : http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4627 - your sister won't be able to use iTunes Match, automatic downloads, or redownload her purchases until the 90 days have completed. I believe that it's an attempt to try and stop people sharing purchases.
You can copy the films over from your own computer : http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4527 (that page refers to music but it works for other content as well, I've used home sharing to copy films and apps etc) -
I hv iPhone with ios 6.0.2
My iphone could not able to check for update…it’s just showing “checking for updates” with loading sign
How can I upgrade to ios 7?
Help plsI agree- I apologize if I sounded skeptical and attacking. In no way did I mean it to sound that way.
I completely agree on the software-hardware combo issue- this is why apple killed off 1G and 2G devices- because newer software revisions would never ever run well if at all on such ancient devices. can you imagine running iOS 6 on an iPhone/iPod touch 1G? That would be terrible. Let alone iOS 3 runs terrible on them and now are generally rendered useless due to newer App Store requirements (most require 4.3+ now to allow apple to kill off the older devices). forcing newer software on older hardware (apple, dell, HP,... Anything electronic this definitely applies to) will almost always yield less-than-par results. The other part is apple forcing you to upgrade by means of intentially making things obsolete. all companies do that.
All of this factual info aside, the issue at hand with the 5 is not a software-hardware combo problem- those are most widely seen with the major revisions. then again, this isn't the first time apple has gotten caught up in battery drain snafus (even iOS 5 was plagued with this as well- and now there are some people desperate to roll back but can't). it basically waters it down to the point where keeping the stock software will always yield the best results even though newer versions provide better features- it all depends on whether or not the person deems the added features are worth a performance hit.
PS. I'm still at 100%- and I've been using it periodically throughout the day. your combo worked for you, but didn't for me. And may or may not work for others- As the tech world would say, mileage may vary.
PSS. What model/carrier do you have? Just wondering. -
after update to IOS 4.3.5 my Iphone incoming and out going calls is not working properly and I have to remove the SIM regulerly to conduct or receive a call
It is not practicale to do this always any one faces the same problemThere may be a problem with the SIM card. Get a new SIM card from your carrier - there should be no charge for a replacement.
If no change with a new SIM card, the standard troubleshooting steps in order are:
Power your iPhone off and on.
An iPhone reset, which is done by pressing and holding the home button and the sleep/wake or on/off button simultaneously until you see the Apple logo and then release.
Restore your iPhone with iTunes from your iPhone's backup.
Restore your iPhone with iTunes as a new iPhone or not from your iPhone's backup.
If no change after any of these steps in order, your iPhone has a hardware problem. -
Sry for disturbing, but i would to ask that how to overcome the problem of synchronising ? Itune showing me that the sync session is failed to start with my Ipad mini. Any ideas about what is going on ?
What are you trying to sync?
I see you are on ios 7.
I also had upgraded my iPad Mini to ios 7 & then the 1st time I tried to open a Numbers file that was set up to sync w my MacBookPro, I got a warning that I would not be able to sync it any more w my Mac until I upgraded to Mavericks.
So if you are trying to sync Numbers, Pages or Keynote files between your iPad mini in ios 7 and a Mac that hasn't been upgraded to Mavericks that could be the problem.
I was very shocked to get that message since I bought Numbers on the iPad so that I could have a particular file on both devices & keep them synced. I had no clue when I upgraded to ios 7 on the iPad Mini that it would make it so the files in the iWorks apps woudln't sync any more.
So I finally decided to go ahead & upgrade to Mavericks after carefully preparing & updating other software so that it would work w Mavericks. But I got error messages so haven't even been able to download Mavericks & now having 2nd thoughts about doing so.
iPad mini ios 7
MacBookPro Mid 2012 Mountain Lion
iphone 4S ios 6 -
Total Frustration With Adobe Support!
Just a rant about current practices at Adobe......
Adobe's new flagship Photoshop CS4 Extended is hyped as the "Cat's Meow" of photo editing and graphics software. It has some of the most advanced features available including 3D, hardware rendering, advanced stacking, HDR, etc., etc., etc. It actually may be the most fantastic editing software anywhere! But, you can't prove it by me.... Not yet, and maybe not ever....
I can't install it! I have attempted to put it on two of my systems. One a Dell, the other a Gateway. Each has Win XP Home edition. After over six hours of install, uninstall, upgrade video drivers, download 814 megabyte files "twice," install Windows Service Pack 3, etc., etc., I finally called Adobe Support only to be totally disappointed with the non-support.
First, I am subjected to a lengthy wait listening to loud, bad, music loops. Next I'm connected to a "support" person, apparently in India or Pakistan with an accent making it very difficult to understand his "English." He wasn't at all interested in learning about "where" the installation had failed, but just wanted to shovel me off to download a "Windows Cleaner" and "CS4 Cleanup Script." He informed me that I may have to uninstall "ALL ADOBE PRODUCTS" before installing the CS4 Extended Trial.
Now the above statement is just plain stupid, especially from an Adobe representative! Try Adobe Flash, Photoshop versions 5, 7 and CS each complete with dozens of plug-ins, hundreds of actions, specialized settings, etc. How about Adobe Frame Maker with hundreds of projects, Adobe Quick Time, Adobe Encore, Adobe Premier, etc., etc., all with myriad data, plugins, etc. We're talking weeks of reinstall or a complete reinstall of the disk which would, of course, wipe out CS4 EXtended (if it were ever installed - LOL).
So after once again uninstalling the remnants of CS4, installing and running the Win cleanup and CS4 cleanup and reinstall of CS4 Extended - guess what? Yep, failed at exactly the same point - the installation of "Adobe Media Player."
I've wasted two days on simply trying to evaluate CS4 Extended. I've installed a service pack I didn't want or need. I've completely lost Flash thanks to the CS4 Cleanup script and still have no CS4 trial installation. I'm writing this while again listening to bad, loud music loops (for the past 45 minutes).
Listen up Adobe - I've spend many, many thousands of dollars with your company and deserve better treatment. Will I purchase CS4 Extended? It's not likely and becoming less likely with every bar of bad, loud, music loop. Do you actually want to sell your products? Then get some knowledgeable technical support people who can help sort out issues like this and make them available. Don't have some 1st level "support" dweeb who speaks the native language of the country where the support is to be given with an accent so strong that it's impossible for a native speaker to understand. Don't have someone who insults the intelligence of the potential customer with silly statements. In addition to the statement about possibly removing "all Adobe" software before the install, he make the mistake of telling me that this was only "Trial Software" an therefore not necessarily a "stable" and trouble free version. I had to remind him that Adobe states that you simply pay for then receive the unlock code and this "unstable" trial version becomes the "real" and "very expensive" CS4 release version! Give me a break already!!
End rant..... Beware. If you order CS4 maybe you should download the trial version first and be certain it will install and run on your system. I hope you have better luck than I've had.
Best regars,
Lin Evans
303-776-8897
[email protected]Hi Marian,
Assuming Adobe actually "reads" the forum, I believe that my statement
was appropriate since there are few, if any, other viable ways of
actually getting the message to them. "Support" is terrible unless one
can get to second tier and that's only available usually "after" you
have spent your money and discovered the issues. It certainly has not
"always" been like this. In the old days one actually could speak with a
"technical" support person and didn't have to jump through the hoops
with inexperienced first tier people who know just enough to be
dangerous! Of course it's more difficult in trying economic times and
taking support off-shore is common to a huge number of U.S. companies
with varying degrees of success. I'm certain that many simple question
could be answered in such a fashion, but not all and though forums like
this are very helpful, users also frequently do not have all the
information necessary to help resolve technical issues.
It is indeed the "trial version" which I downloaded (twice) and with
which I'm having the problems. The solution offered on this forum did
indeed get CS4 Extended on my system. Unfortunately, without the Adobe
Media Player which may, or may not be of significant importance which is
yet to be determined.
Yes, I'm a user of "many" Adobe Products since there has been an Adobe
company, and a user of Photoshop since the first release. My sole
purpose for CS4 Extended is for the 3D output. Otherwise CS works just
fine. I'm not really influenced by marketing, only interested in the 3D
output to video. I write tutorials and templates, for a presentation
slideshow software with which I prepare image "objects" by using chroma
key software to create individual frames from video and animate as still
objects. Having a way to easily output cubes, cones, or other 3D
objects, etc., with chroma key green or blue backdrops is important to
me. CS4 Extended has this feature which I need, and I don't know of
other software presently available and which will fit into my workflow.
Photoshop CS works fine for the majority of my photo and graphic
manipulation, but it doesn't have this new and useful feature which I need.
I'm not upset with Adobe marketing - they actually pretty much advertise
truthfully in this case. Nothing which I've heard or seen from Marketing
at Adobe has really stretched the truth beyond credibility. I am upset
with Adobe's support service. It's gotten progressively worse over the
years and the arrogance has multiplied. There's an old saying which
somehow rings true here: you get what you pay for. One good technical
support person is worth half a dozen of what I'm seeing off-shore. They
are underpaid, inexperienced and generally (in my experience) short and
arrogant with potential customers. This isn't good for business. CS4
Extended is a comparatively expensive investment and Adobe should go
out of their way to help facilitate the installation and use of their
trial versions. After all, that's what will eventually convince the
majority of people to buy or not.
Best regards,
Lin -
Call Forwarding Breaks with iOS 8.3 Update on iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus with AT&T
Ever since the iOS 8.3 Update, call forwarding is no longer working on my iPhone 6 Plus. I have spent dozens of hours troubleshooting with both AT&T Advanced Business Technical Support as well as many hours with top technicians from Apple at my local Genius Bars.
This is a critical bug for me as I used to use the call forwarding option multiple times a day, EVERY DAY, because when I am in certain business locations my mobile phone gets no reception and calls go right to voice mail. I need to have them forwarded to the land line I'm located at.
APPLE, PLEASE HELP!!!
I've done extensive testing, and this seems definitely to be related to Apple iOS 8.3, and it seems to be specific to the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus ONLY.
To illustrate the EXACT problem:
A: Settings -> Phone -> Call Forwarding
B. Call Forwarding - Turn on
C. Enter Number and return to previous screen by touching the blue "Call Forwarding" to return to previous screen.
D. Call forwarding button is "green" for a split second, then returns to previous OFF state and no forwarding number is displayed. DOES NOT WORK.
NOT AN AT&T PROBLEM. IF SOMEONE IS EXPERIENCING THIS WITH OTHER CARRIERS PLEASE COMMENT HERE.
Further validation this is isolated to iOS 8.3 on the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus ONLY and not the sim card from AT&T...
Here are the latest steps I did with my AT&T sim card and my wife AT&T sim card (she has an iPhone 5s):
1. Removed my sim and put it in the 5s. The phone said that a "carrier update" was required and I selected "NO" to that prompt. Call forwarding functionality worked as expected on the 5s running iOS 8.3
2. I removed the sim from the 5s and re-inserted it. This time I selected "YES" to do the carrier update to eliminate that as a variable, and the call forwarding functionality still worked as expected.
3. I then placed my wifes sim in my 6 Plus. Call forwarding functionality does NOT work on the 6 Plus (was not prompted for carrier update). Also, keep in mind this is my second phone (Apple provided me with a new iPhone 6 Plus when they couldn't resolve the problem at the Genius Bar after hours of troubleshooting).
Note: I did one additional test which as interesting: I put my sim in the 5s and turned call forwarding "on". Then, I put the sim back into my 6 Plus. The calls were still being forwarded to the number I put in while it was in the 5s, but the call forwarding interface in the 6 Plus showed that it was NOT forwarding calls. I could not turn OFF the call forwarding from the 6 Plus and had to put the sim back into the 5s in order to turn off the call forwarding.
If anyone has an update on this, or any other suggestions please advise! This is a critical issue for me as when I travel and when I am in poor areas of reception I need to forward calls. This is a featured I was using multiple times a day, EVERY DAY.
APPLE????????? HELP!!!!!!Yes, I am dealing with this right now on at&t with a 6 plus. I've been down the same road as you. I got it to work with a windows phone yesterday but not my 6 plus when I switched back to the iPhone. My wifes 6 works fine. I believe it is an at&t issue and not an 8.3 issue. After dealing through several levels of support at at&t, they are telling me it has to do with their transition to hd voice. Some people are having this issue because they are updating their system and some peoples phone profile, on phones that have hd voice capabilities, are not getting added to their line and call forwarding will not work without it. I have a trouble ticket open to their engineering dept and they promise it will work for me on or before the 24th of april. Engineering has to build my phones profile so call forwarding will work with my iPhone.
This is frustrating because like you, I need to forward my calls because I have no signal in my office and need to forward to another phone so I can get my calls. If at&t would quit dragging their feet and enable wifi calling, this wouldn't be an issue for me. I would suggest you put more pressure on at&t and escalate this until it gets resolved. Or put your sim in a phone that does not have hd voice capability and see if it works then.
Good luck. I'm keeping my fingers crossed this will be fixed for me on or before the 24th. We'll see.
EDIT: I see you did put it in another phone and it worked. That backs up that the issue is at&t and their hd voice upgrades. They had no explanation as to why some work and some don't, but have them make sure a profile for your phone is on the line. If not, they'll need to build one for the phone so that it''l work. At least that's the story for now. Like I said, I'll know more in a day or two. -
Problems and bugs with ios 8.0.2 on iphone 4s
After updating my 3 year old iphone 4s to ios 8.0.2, the UI became choppy (Same with ios 8 and ios 8.0.1). Few bugs i noticed even after updating to ios 8.0.2 (all done after restoring phone as factory new and loading few music/photos/videos loaded and few apps like manual cam, facebook and Google maps installed leaving 7.4 GB free memory.)
1. The "Notes" app keyboard responds slow while typing.
2. Free ram stays in between 60- 20mb which i checked with iMonitor which later drops down to 5-12mb when i open an app. So em just wondering where did the 450mb remaining ram went? Because of this i cant multitask like opening and running FB app and simultaneously opening Google maps or any other app using a bit more ram. In ios 7.1.2 i used to running three apps simultaneously without the app being reset.
3. Ram stays at 200mb+ when i exit some heavy apps like "manual cam" thou it never comes at 200mb when i exit in built apps which a very little ram. So in real world the ram is always being used at 80% even i restart the phone.
4. The incoming call screen is lagging. First i hear the ringtone for about .5 secs and then the call screen loads! ***?
From all this happenings i suspect that ios 8 and its further updates will use 80-90% of the iphone 4s ram leaving only 10-20% unusable for users! I dont know why 80-90% is still used even if i restart or even i have closed all the running apps! Usage comes down to 40-50% when i exit heavy apps like "manual cam" or "real racing 3" and the free amount of ram stays stable at 200+ mb for few hours until the cache or background processes resume after the phone refreshes after exiting the heavy apps. At 40-50% ram usage (soon i exit a heavy app) the phone works fluid and animations are smooth. Still my one question "where is my missing 400+ mb Apple"?digis wrote:
If your device was not functioning, you might rant a little too!!
No, I wouldn't. At worst, I might sigh, then start troubleshooting the issue.
This is a technical support forum, not an emotional support forum.
What troubleshooting steps have you tried?
Here are some:
Basic Troubleshooting Steps when all else fails
- Quit the App by opening multi-tasking bar, and swiping the App upward to make it disappear. (For iOS 6, holding down the icon for the App for about 3-5 seconds, and then tap the red circle with the white minus sign.)
- Relaunch the App and try again.
- Restart the device. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1430
- Reset the device. (Same article as above.)
- Reset All Settings (Settings > General > Reset > Reset All Settings)
- Restore from backup. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1766 (If you don't have a backup, make one now, then skip to the next step.)
- Restore as new device. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4137 For this step, do not re-download ANYTHING, and do not sign into your Apple ID.
- Test the issue after each step. If the last one does not resolve the issue, it is likely a hardware problem. -
Bluetooth issues with car with iOS 8.0.2 and iPhone 5
I am still experiencing issues with connection my phone to my brand new car, after updating to iOS8, and now iOS 8.0.2.
I can connect to the bluetooth, but this gives me a phantom call, my car keeps telling me that an incoming call is inbound. I cannot receive or make any phonecalls, I have only access to my contacts list.
I have tried to remove my car on my devices list, changed the name of the phone, changed the password. Did a reset of the phone.
Deleted all network connections on the phone, and reset the phone completely. And also restarted my car.
Still the same issues.
I did not have any issues with iOS7. And my car is a brand new Mazda 3 2014, with the latest firmware to the car. So i know for sure this is the iOS 8's fault.after avoiding the hassle with the troubled IOS 8, IOS 8.0.1, i upgraded to 8.0.2. which I believed to be bugless, the iPhone 5 didn't function in my car (2014 model) anymore. It had worked flawless with IOS 7....
I'f got phantom calls, freezing the cars display and blocking the radio, in the second the bluetooth connection to the phone is established.
incoming calls go to the phone and at the cars system is nothing to hear.
Active calls from the car remain silent, even on the car display it looks like there is a connection, only the music is switched off.
Hopefully Apple staff is reading here and will change this situation soon.
Why is the possibility to officially downgrade to IOS 7.1.2 canceled by Apple ??
Is there still an unofficial possibility to downgrade a non-jailbreaked iPhone?
In the older iTunes backup? -
Issues with IOS 8.0.2 on iPhone 6
Hello Users and Apple What is going on with IOS 8 and IOS 8.0.2 my iPhone 6 with the latest update my device while I am using apps my iphone does not respond also battery dies quicker. I aready follow troubleshooting articles from Apple Support but no resolution. Please Apple respond I went thru a lot rush and big lines for me to get a get a device the does not work properly. I think you guys had enough time to realease a Perfect iPhone after all that waiting and crazy lines on apple store. Please respond!!!!!!
My wife and I are also experiencing intermittent issues with our new iPhone 6s. We both recently upgraded, she had an iPhone 4S and I had an iPhone 5 both of which worked very well and reliably. So far, in the week that we’ve had the 6s, we’ve experienced more app crashes and issues with iPhone remaining connected to our home and work networks. The wifi issues are occurring on both of our phones even after updating to iOS 8.0.2 so those issues have not been fully resolved. The app crashes we experienced initially seem to have been fixed after updating but, it’s only been a day. I’ve only owned iPhones as my last three cell phones (3G, 4S and a 5) and the 6 so far has the most issues. iOS 8 is also the buggiest OS to date in my experience using iOS. Not a great sign for the direction Apple is going in. The reason I’ve always preferred an iPhone to other available phones is that they’ve always worked exactly as promised and whatever few issues may have existed either with the OS or the device, they were fixed quickly. Unless another iOS update is forthcoming that truly corrects the remaining OS issues, for the first time since first owning an iPhone, I’m going to really begin to lose a little faith in Apple products. Between my wife and I, five iPhones, two Apple TVs and two Macbook Pros. As an example of the wifi issue I’m talking about, last night my wife was watching a show on HBO GO on her iPhone while she was preparing dinner in the kitchen. Her iPhone was connected to our home network as usual and as it always was with our previous iPhones. While watching the show, she gets a message stating that using 3G to stream shows could affect her data bill. Meanwhile, the wifi symbol was still showing on the top of her phone as if it was still connected to our home network but apparently, the phone was actually using our cell network to stream HBO GO. That obviously shouldn’t be happening and is definitely going to affect our cell bill big time. Neither of us have ever experienced these issues on our old iPhones. Very disappointing.
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Error 3014 with iOS 5, can't restore iPhone HELP!
Basically as the title suggests. Downloaded and tried to update iPhone 4 with iOS 5 and it didnt work. Needed restoring but that comes up with the 3014 error. Happened to my iPad aswell. Redownloaded iTunes and that didint work as well as restarting. Dont know what to do.
same exact problem.
After trying a number of times and checking all items listed here:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ts1275
and here
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3694#error3014
I have same error -
on a whim, tried to do it via a Windows iTunes install that was a new install -
i got the idea from an Apple page that asked if i was trying to "upgrade from my home machine or not"
it repeated locked the Win machine to death - figures - until i had to hold the button down.
Anyway, i see this reported elsewhere - I am going to the Genius bar tomorrow - -
"No service" sign, celluar service with iOS 8.0.2 on iPhone 6
I have a problem with my new iPhone 6 with iOS 8.0.2 :
1.immediately after I end a call , every time, in 10 seconds appears the sign "No service" for about 10-12 seconds and then the signal reappears in full power again.
It happens every time I end a call and from while to while with no reason .
2. While I am using "AirDrop" the phone remains locked and I can not use it, until the transfer is made .
3. Trimming a video is blocking the access to "Photos" folder, requiring to completely close the application .I have a problem with my new iPhone 6 with iOS 8.0.2 :
1.immediately after I end a call , every time, in 10 seconds appears the sign "No service" for about 10-12 seconds and then the signal reappears in full power again.
It happens every time I end a call and from while to while with no reason .
2. While I am using "AirDrop" the phone remains locked and I can not use it, until the transfer is made .
3. Trimming a video is blocking the access to "Photos" folder, requiring to completely close the application . -
HT201210 problem with ios 7.1.2 on iphone 4
Hi
about 6 months ago i made mistake to upgrade my ios from 7.1.1 to 7.1.2 not only the bugs and crashes solved but also my iphone4′s speed reduced and reboots unexpectedly when ever it like . ios 7.1.2 is extremely huge ( take more ram ) for iphone 4 . pleas help me with this problem . i cant enjoy my phone any more. also when playing clash of clans i had lag seems that you RAPIDLY stop and resume whatching movie because of ios 7.1.2 for iphone 4 . the performance on 7.1.1 was veryyyyyy good .
tank you very much for paying attention to my problem . i hope there is a solution for this...
1377.62 kb or 78.43% ram usage
10.2 Gb free storage capacityWell, it sounds like your VPN isn't configured correctly. Turn the slider to off under Settings - General - VPN, and it shouldn't try to connect. If you have installed a 3rd party VPN OR a profile from your company, you might have to disable or delete the profile to turn VPN off.
HTH -
Have successfully updated 2 items and Safari the last both are having issues. Safari opens but then stalls. I have reset and restored the iPhone and I am seeing the same issues.
I just tested this on my wife's phone and you are right. I tested it time and again, changing the vibrate to ON and OFF and it consistently reproduces the problem, in line with the vibrate being on or off. You are a genius lol.
I had this issue on my phone too, but it disappeared when I followed the advice of a Genius.
When I asked my local Genius, he said it was a software issue and that a Restore followed by Create a new iPhone would remove the faulty/corrupted file that is causing the issue. He specified not to restore from backup, as the problem might still be resident within the backup.
I did this, and it seemed to work on her phone. Then it reappeared, so I'm still not sure what's going on. But your discovery defnitely holds true for her phone. My one seems to be okay regardless of the vibrate on or off now, even though I did exactly the same restore procedure on mine. -
What is going on with Itunes---I cannot even reinstall.
Finally found the right thread and the solution. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3278977?start=15&tstart=0
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