23.98 (24p) PAL in DVDSP?

23.98 (24p) PAL in DVDSP?
quote from the DVDSP manual:
To create a 24 fps MPEG-2 asset, you need to use Compressor (included with DVD Studio Pro) or a third-party encoder that supports encoding 24 fps MPEG-2 assets…
…You can use 24 fps video assets in tracks just like you would use regular 29.97 fps or 25 fps video assets, as long as they match the project’s video standard (NTSC or PAL). You can also combine 24 fps assets with regular video assets within a track, as long as they use the same resolution.
Full page here:
http://documentation.apple.com/en/dvdstudiopro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=4%2 6section=3%26tasks=true
We have tried this with CinemaCraft creating a 23.98p file 720x576 using a custom preset.
When attempting to bring this into a PAL DVDSP project - we are told the asset is NTSC and can't be used.
We contacted CinemaCraft - they tested and got the same result.
Both we and they created a 23.98p NTSC and tried to bring this into a NTSC project as a test - DVDSP stated file was invalid.
CinemaCraft support deduced DVDSP does not support 24p files - which seems contradictory with the text from the manual.
We tried to make a 23.98p or 24p PAL M2V with the standard Apple Compressor (without CinemaCraft) - as soon as we select PAL the frame rate drop down jumps to 25fps and is greyed out.
It would appear Compressor is not capable of creating 24p PAL files.
It also seems DVDSP doesn't support them even if you can make them.
We have a 24p ProRes422 feature and would love to not speed it up, was hoping to 'flag' the stream for 2:2 pulldown in the player - sounded good in theory.
Anyone done that here?

You're actually better off not using CF24. Best would be to shoot 50i on the Z1u and de-interlace then slow from 25p to 24p in post. This works very well.
Next best is probably to use my Standards Conversion www.nattress.com 60i to 24p plugin which does a better job than the CF24 mode, and you don't have to go to the bother of removing pulldown.
Graeme

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Viewing PAL on Region 1 Apple computer

This is not strictly an FCP issue, but I think I will find the knowledge on this topic to be superior in this forum than in any other.
I have authored a multi-Region DVD in PAL, using DVDSP. When I play this in my Apple laptop set to Region 2, there is of course no problem. When I play it in my Apple laptop set to Region 1, DVD Player displays only the upper 480 lines (I guess) of the image, so that the bottom 96 or so lines are cropped, with the added consequence that the image is distorted (TTP - tall thin people), although not as extreme as it would be in an anamorphic/non-anamorphic situation. If I change the View in DVD Player from Full Screen to any other choice, the display then changes to show the entire image correctly. This correct display holds even when I re-select Enter Full Screen.
I tried a similar process on a Windows machine, where the DVD displayed correctly at all times. Is this a glitch in Apple's DVD Player? It seems my internationally destined DVD has to be converted from PAL to NTSC, complete with jittery pans and tilts that that entails, in order that it will play in the correct aspect ratio on an Apple machine of unknown region setting. This video is destined for non media types, so I cannot expect the audience to be familiar with altering their software settings.
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This was definitely authored as Region 0. I was under the impression too that computers don't care about NTSC or PAL. That is why I am surprised that my MacBook, set to Region1, does not display the Region 0 PAL disc correctly -you're right, it's not recognising it correctly as multi-region. I realised it must an Apple/DVD Player issue when I tried the disc in a Windows machine set to Region 1, and it displayed correctly.

Need advice on a workflow (mixing HD and SD on Final Cut timeline)

Hi
I'd love some help with the following. Thanks in advance.
I have shot full HD 1920 x 1080 24P PAL footage with the Canon 7D. I have also shot SD footage with the Canon XL2 (16:9, PAL, 50i).
I am using Final Cut Studio (Final Cut Pro 7). I am running FCPro 7 on a MacBook Pro and a Mac Pro (both intel).
What is the best set up (audio/visual set up) in Final Cut, before I bring in the footage? There are so many different set ups. When I export, how do I export? What settings do I use? If I want to export using compressor, what should I do in there? If I want to just make a simple DVD in iDVD, what do I export as from FCPro?
In the end, I want a high quality DVD. I realize I can't do a Blu-Ray disc because some of the footage is SD.
What is the best work flow? Thanks very much for the help. I really appreciate it.

interdiscipline wrote:
Here's the configuration we're considering:
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*Don't do it!* Stick with the dual-2.8GHz config. A jump from that to the dual-3.2GHz gains you only an approximate 9% increase in power at a 52% increase in cost! Not worth it all. That money is much wiser spent on RAM, RAID array, or a broadcast monitor.
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Hard Drives: 300GB 15,000-rpm SAS (for OS X, Final Cut, & other programs) plus 2 x 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s (for video storage)
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Track start adjust throws audio out of sync?

Hi
Have a project with 13 x 2-3 minute sequences to go to DVD. My menu system provides links directly to all 13 sequences but alos requires additional links to partial sequences (sections of the 13 main tracks)
Have exported files as self contained QTs from FCP and imported into DVDSP. All is well with the 13x main tracks.
To effect the links to sub-sections, I have dragged a movie from the asset lib and dropped it on to a menu item, making a new track. I then identify the required in point and set the audio & video track start time to that TC (adjusting track duration if necessary).
My problem is that changing the start time of the audio and video tracks, even though they are identical, throws them ot of sync.
I have no problems with the full tracks, only those that I make adjustments to.
1. Is my workflow correct for linking to sub-sections or should I be looking at chapter markers?
2. Assuming I'm right, can I do anything obout the sync issue after track start time adjustments?
I'm working with PAL material, DVDSP 5.1.1
I've searched the archioves and althought there is A LOT of material on audio sync, I have failed to find anything similar to my problem.
Thanks in advance for ay advice.
Peter

Hi:
I think you can avoid your problems changing the way you plan your DVD:
Have exported files as self contained QTs from FCP and imported into DVDSP. All is well with the 13x main tracks.
My first advice is encode your movies outside DVDSP, using Compressor MPEG2 and Dolby AC3 presets. DVDSP leave audio uncompressed and you can find problems related with high bitrates in your final DVD. Besides that, AC3 audio is "almost" same quality for the standard audience and save a lot of space in your disc.
To effect the links to sub-sections, I have dragged a movie from the asset lib and dropped it on to a menu item, making a new track. I then identify the required in point and set the audio & video track start time to that TC (adjusting track duration if necessary).
Do you mean you are duplicating your tracks to create the different playback sections? You don't need to do that. Just create some markers on the main track/s and create some Stories based in those chapter markers.
Here you have two links to learn about stories:
Stories Tutorial (from Drew13's www.dvdstepbystep.com site)
Stories Tutorial (from www.kenstone.net site)
You can play with your tracks, markers and stories to create multiple playbacks with different play order, in &out, etc.
Hope it helps no matter my answer doesn't point at least directly to the sync issue.

Export a .mov in HD?

My footage is from a Canon 5DII, shot at 29.97 fps @ 1080p.
The video in question is a 15 second commercial for a local business.
Through Comcast, they request a 1080i mpeg file. I've submitted to them in the past and I used "Format: MPEG2" and "Preset: HDTV 1080i 29.97 High Quality" for my export settings.
This time, I also need to submit to Root Sports. They are telling me they need a .mov file. When I choose "Format: Quicktime" in the export dialouge, the highest video quality under presets is only 480p. The presets are "NTSC DV," "NTSC DV Widescreen," "NTSC DV Widescreen 24p," "NTSC DV 24p," "PAL DV Widescreen," and "PAL DV." There are no HD options for .mov Quicktime.
Any help?

This time, I also need to submit to Root Sports. They are telling me they need a .mov file. When I choose "Format: Quicktime" in the export dialouge, the highest video quality under presets is only 480p. The presets are "NTSC DV," "NTSC DV Widescreen," "NTSC DV Widescreen 24p," "NTSC DV 24p," "PAL DV Widescreen," and "PAL DV." There are no HD options for .mov Quicktime.
did you by any chance come to the forum and look at my post ?? might help. I seem to have more options than you do and custom setting will allow you some flexibility. Look at the pictures...you will see there are HD options as presets...and you can manipulate THOSE with custom settings. ??? Not sure cause I use CS3 with quicktime pro installed on a PC....which adds stuff that might not be there for you now ??
Me and Bill happened to respond at about the same time to your original post so maybe you missed mine ??
The tip off here is your presets are limited compared to mine...if you look at the image...good luck !!!
If you choose h264 as a preset you have other options but at least in my program ( CS3 ) none of them have anything to do with MOV wrapper in my version....I think what Bill meant was you can choose the h264 IN THE MOV wrapper ??

Does DVD Studio pro support 1080p for HD-DVD?

I can't find this option in the track and menu settings options.

Eric Pautsch1 wrote:
The spec does support 1080p but Compressor doesn't encode this.
Actually, Compressor does encode 1080p - so long as you limit the definition of 1080p to 23.98 fps.
The 'issue' that Marc is bumping into is the same one that so many of us were first stumped by when we began creating 24p SD DVDs: DVDSP uses the pulldown-rate as the frame rate (so 23.98 Compressor encodes are seen as 29.97 Non-drop Frame) and Tracks must be 29.97 fps to ensure playback because HD-DVD (and Blu-ray) is limited to 1080i over Component video connections.
Also, and I know this seems silly to some, but HD-DVD and Blu-ray players can still be connected to old-school non-HD TVs via Component, S-Video and Composite connections, so 29.97 playback must be assured.
Hope that helps.

24p to 25 PAL. Strange appearance of black frames!!!

Hi everybody. I have imported some footage in FCP6.0, 1280x720 HDV 24p, generated by a JVC gyhd200e camera. I have created a new sequence, using the "HDV - 24p" easy setup.
I have exported it as "Current setting" file, (this means 24p 1280x720). I have tried to import that file in Dvd Studio Pro (DVDSP), but it did not accept that kind of file.
I have thought: " it must be the frame rate, I should change to 25 PAL, as I live in europe and I want it to be seen in Italy."
Then I came back to FCP and I have exported a newer version, a DV-PAL 48 Hz one.
Back to DVDSP.
Imported, everything ok. Burned. Checked on tv...... Well, there are some new black frames every editing point!
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Do you have a cure for this?
Thanks to all of you!
Alex!

Yes Alex,
I would send the edit straight to Compressor from the timeline.
For the audio Compressor is definitely the way to go.
With regard to format you may want to encode the video as MPEG2 and audio ac3.
That way DVDstudio will burn the DVD in minutes.
In Compressor you could use DVD: best quality 90 minutes then see the settings in the inspector window.
Before you send the entire video why not copy and paste a few seconds with editing points on an identical sequence and send that to Compressor and test frame rate (inspector).
G

Pal 24p? Or 25 and NTSC 24p

I am beginning to edit a documentary shot primarily in 24p with a DVX100a, and now I will be getting some footage shot in PAL. They will be shooting this week and my question is this: What might work best for conversion and look? Have them shoot standard PAL at 25fps or PAL 24p? Does the 24p mode really matter when I'll be converting to NTSC anyway? I have no experience working with PAL and am unsure what might look and work best.
Thanks for any feedback!
Christine

New Discussions ResponsesThe new system for discussions asks that after you mark your question as Answered, you take the time to mark any posts that have aided you with the tag and the post that provided your answer with the tag. This not only gives points to the posters, but points anyone searching for answers to similar problems to the proper posts.
If we use the forums properly they will work well...
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DVDSP sees NTSC instead of PAL

Hello all.
Im trying to place an (m2v) asset into DVDSP and its not accepting what it says is an NTSC asset into a PAL project. In FCP i re checked my project settings..all PAL.
Ive had a look for a problems like this on here but its all quite advanced. Also just to add the footage for this camera was shot on a PAL camera.
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Seems to have worked out
I duplicated a small 10 second piece of the original project into a new FCP project and exported using Quicktime(Self Contained), making sure the DV PAL setting was selected ( i think this was my mistake). it made it through to IDVD okay. No NTSC warning
I went back to the full project and repeated the steps.In Compressor i set a max bit rate given i have the space on the DVD. I made a custom preset: One Pass VBR 8.0 Mbps 4:3 closed/GOP 12 Auto field dominance. Space on the DVD isnt an issue. My footage is of water with lots of movement so two pass is better i would have thought but 2 pass has failed so far. I need to work on that and look at the boards here to tackle that one.
Once outputted as an m2v (about 1 hour for 20 minutes of DV) i converted or rather reassigned the Quicktime application to the mcv file. I did this in the Finder and in icon view, selecting my file and following File<Open With<(tick)Allways Open With<Quicktime. Finder was crashing previously whenever is so much as clicked on this file and DVDSP was doing the same. This procedure changed the blank page icon to the QT mpeg icon and DVDSP magically welcomes it now with open arms!
Again a careless mistake but exactly the kind of thing that can frustrate.
Thanks for the help

FCP-DVDSP sequence PAL footage transcoding

hello,
I write asking of help in order to
(a) make a proper transcoding workflow and sequence to edit MPG footage with FCP
(b) output and convert for DVDSP.
I dont know FCP compression and settings so well, and i think i made some mistakes...
I use mac 10.5.8 Leopard on POWERpc with FCPStudio 7 (in the past i was using FCS5).
I need to shrink 2 videos 50min duration each (100min total), in order to fit on DVDSP.
I get a disc meter error my footage is 5.8 GB and exceeded space limit.
this is the 2/2 DVD (1rst is burned ok- it is alsmost full).
My files m2v are about 1.6GB each and inside DVDSP seem that
occupy 2.5GB each (rendered ?)ps for SD.
I recently received some mpg files from a sony hdd camcorder Dsr Sr58.
It has split scenes saved as MPG files which i transcoded to various formats
and tried to import them in a prores444 sequence in FCP to edit.
footage is handheld and has shaky parts too for most of the time.
this does not seem to be an HD camcorder, and i assume, despite the fact
it has a 1:9 LCD records 4:3 and 16:9 anamorphic. I have attached an image
of the folder names i get when i plug the camera via usb on my mac.
I cannot also understand, what is the frame rate recorded by this camera.
i believe it is INTERLACED 25fps. I see evident lines on my mac @ playback.
I need to burn PAL SD DVD (50fps) at the end.
When i open a file in MPEG streamclip, shows 1024x576 frame size unscaled.
However, when i open it in QT shows 720x404.
I firstly used MPEG streamclip and exported to QT making 2 versions
(a) Photo JPG compressor codec @ 80 quality
(b) Prores444 @ 70 Quality.
I did not Deinterlaced in the transcoding stage at all.
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I exported to mov but files are huge and when i make m2v files are 2GB each.
i tried (b) and saw i needed to render the clips again. The m2v files are about 2.2GB each
and there is NO way to bring the quality slider down in FC sequence settings. Seems locked to 100%.
So... I abandoned temporarily and ask for any help here.
Can anyone suggest me a procedure, on
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(b) Suggest how to use compressor and the variable bit rate setting to decrease size further ?
thanks

hm... thanks for sugesting JES. it seems when i feed this movie file in JES and choose deinterlace, the program crashes when file gets about 100%.
yesterday i tried to burn the interlaced footage on DVDsp deleting clip1 to be able to burn it.
I made the m2v file using compressor and set BIT RATE to 3,7mbps average. max rate=6.4mbps
Motion estimation= good, and mode= one pass vbr best. i imported them in DVDSP...
burn was ok. i played the dvd on 2 different dvd players (no pc/mac), on PAL TV.
the first played image ok. i mean stady shots appeared clean with tiny interlaced lines sometimes.
The shots that had camera shake and fast PAN (amateur video) showed flickering on TV and during pan
they were leaving a semi-transparent trail behind peope. like a ghost shadow.
The second one, played a more smooth version of steady images without showing the interlaced lines. however, same shadows appeared when fast pan occured, with slow prosumer camera speeds i believe.
JES does not work for a reason on PPC DC 2ghz or i make wrong settings....
I tried deinterlacing (progressive) with MPEGstreamclip, and worked ok. the
Now, my question is.... if i make m2v files again, same bit rate, burn in DVDSP, will the dvd player, play them ok on PAL tv (which uses interlaced lines to display the image) ?

Audio issues from FCP to Compression to DVDSP regarding 24p

This has probably been asked before. I exported my 2 hour Anamorphic 24p movie into Quicktime self contain with Audio. Once I run through compressor (.m2v and .ac3) And import the files into DVDSP, on the track it progressively goes out of sync. Its good in the beginning and then it gradually goes out of synce. Please Help.

if your audio is in sync with the video only for the first second or so, and then gets more off as time goes by, it may be that your video is at 24fps and your audio is at 29.97 or 30. also, did you check the original move your exported (the one that went to compressor) to see if the audio was synced there?

PAL (25p) - 24p - NTSC DVD

I have two CanonXL1e (PAL) cameras. I am planning to shoot footage at 25p and conform the clips to 23.98fps, edit in FCP on 23.98fps sequences, and then output to NTSC DVDs at 23.98fps.
The audio gets out of sync when I conform the 25p clips to 23.98fps and drop them into a 23.98fps sequence.
The audio stays in sync with the video when I conform the 25p clips to 24fps and drop them into a 24fps sequence. The problem I have with this setup is when I export the 24fps sequence from FCP to Mpeg2 using compressor I seem to drop a frame every once in a while. Is this because it's going from 24fps to 23.98 fps?
What is the correct workflow to get from PAL 25p to 24p to NTSC DVD?

I have not - but instead of conforming to 24, does cinema tools give you the option to conform to 23.98? If not, I'd have to think it's like Dropframe/Non-Dropframe sync issues - stuff drops out at the rate of 2 frames per minute. Not noticeable in the first minute, but definitely discernible after 3.
I don't know of any option other than to run the audio at 99.9% or slipping the audio every minute...
Or is that 100.1%?
Patrick

NTSC 24p conversion for PAL project

I've got a "conversion" issue I'm wondering if I can get some help with.
I'm working on a project primarily shot in PAL DV, though there are a handful of tapes shot 24p advanced NTSC. I've already captured all of the footage (everything is at Photo Jpeg resolutions to save drive space. The NTSC 24p footage was captured at 29.97- this is how it appears on the tape). Now I'm wondering the easiest and most efficient way of working with the NTSC and PAL footage together in the same PAL timelines.
I spoke with Graeme Nattress today and he suggested recapturing and removing the pulldown with Cinema Tools which I don't really know how to do. I'm sure it's basic and do-able, but if I can avoid recapturing all of the NTSC footage, I'd like to.
So, I figure I can convert the NTSC footage to PAL via Compressor or the Nattress convertor, but as far as I understand, I won't be able to preserve the tape source timecode. This is an issue for me, since I've captured everything at low - photo jpeg- resolutions, and will have to return to the master tapes for onlining.
If I've gotta deal with recapturing or with potentially eye-matching all of the NTSC footage when we got to online, so be it. If there's another- that'd be better obviously. Any other thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated.
Many thanks, and happy new year.
Nate Smith
System:
G5 Dual 2ghz
2 gb memory
Final Cut Pro 4.5
2 external 250 gb Lacie firewire drives

Welcome to the forum Nate!
The only way I can think of that would preserve the TC would be to edit the 29.97 footage directly into the PAL sequence... Never tried this and wonder about bugs in the area surrounding the recapture, but it should recapture OK... I'd do a test of this to make sure the workflow will work OK... I'll also add that the NTSC footage will look pretty rough in the offline res probably when played back (and rendered each time you want to use it) in the PAL offline sequence... but that may not be such an issue. If it is, then you'll have to do what Graeme suggested first, then eyball it all in the online session as you've guessed. OR maybe just put it in twice on top of itself. Lower video track being the NTSC directly cut in, and upper track being the "transformed" version of the same. Delete V2 when you recapture...
In any event, you'll still need to do what Graeme suggests for the Online session. His plugin will make the time needed to change the NTSC to PAL go a lot faster than using Compressor... and removing the pulldown pattern in Cinema Tools is a snap actually. It's just a matter of importing the shot needed, then selecting remove pulldown pattern from the file menu. Read the instructions on page 192 of CT's Help, it's really easy to do... Be sure that the footage is shot 24P and not 24PA.. if PA you'll want to recapture it removing the advanced pulldown pattern on the fly with FCP and you won't need to use CT at all in this scenario, just Compressor or Graeme's plugin to change that 24p to PAL...
HTH
Jerry

Pitch Change fix for 24p NTSC to PAL Conversion

Anyone here have a decent tutorial for Audacity or Soundtrack Pro to fix 4% pitch change caused from 24p NTSC to PAL conversion? I don't have Protools. Thanks!
Alexander

In the Project tab of STP (top left pane) there is an Audio PullUp/PullDown menu. You should find the preset you need in there.

TIP: 24p ntsc to PAL conversion

Many thanks to Graeme Nattress for this solution.
Our project was a 90-minute doc edited in 24p ntsc. We needed to create a PAL version by transcoding in software. If we simply placed the ntsc version in a PAL sequence, the frame rate change resulted in blurry motion and repeated frames, giving the motion a jerky look.
I had been trying to use the Nattress standards conversion plugins with no success. However, Graeme was kind enough to recommend the following workflow:
1. Create a reference movie of the original sellf-contained movie of the ntsc version
2. Conform the 24p clip to 25 fps in Cinema Tools. This took about 1 second. The resulting clip was 4% shorter (about 4 minutes) and the audio was automatically speeded up to match.
3. I now placed the 25 fps ntsc clip into a PAL sequence and scaled it up to 120% to fill the PAL frame. I exported my mpeg for DVD using compressor, which took only about 6 hours to encode on a dual 1.8 G5, a perfectly acceptable ratio of about 4:1. The result was that all of our original 24P frames were intact, with no conversion, interpolation, extra frames, blurring, etc. The quality was much better than any other workflow I had tested, and it saved us lots of rendering and exporting time.
Thanks again Graeme!
Max Average

Yes, definitely the way to do it.
Even in the NTSC world, low-budget filmmakers have been doing the reverse for years - shooting PAL because of the ease of conversion from 25fps video to a 24fps film print - a 4% slow-down in this case. The extra 96 lines of vertical resolution is especially beneficial in this workflow too!
Good to see you NTSC guys more with PAL!

23.98 (24p) PAL in DVDSP?

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