Beginners Guide sound installation -- OSS and ALSA objective features
Beginners Guide sound installation -- OSS and ALSA objective features needed
Hi,
In most wiki pages i just edit the things that i think need editing. Just look at the oss history
In all those cases i didn't really saw a need to ask for permission.. that would kinda destroy the wiki idea.
However i want to change the sound instructions in the beginners guide so i made a copy of the entire guide and the part that i changed there is: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Use … ling_Sound now i have a slight issue there. As you can see i'm in favor of OSS and because you can spot that it's not objective. Now i would ask 2 things.
1. Could you all post your features of OSS and ALSA
2. Once that's done can i have permission to place that section in the beginners guide? that will also include removing the sound installation from the beginners guide which i already did in my version
My personal reason to do this. i've read this and am since then pro OSS and against the ALSA/PulseAudio combo. i think that combo needs to get out of linux (most notably Fedora and Ubuntu) ASAP. and oss needs to go back into the linux kernel
Thank you for your time,
Mark
ngoonee wrote:
I'm an alsa/pulse user, so I'll give a bit of the 'other side'.
Alsa/pulse
Pros:-
network sound
advanced connection of sink/source (including merging sinks)
bluetooth support!
highly supported by existing apps, either through directly supporting Pulse or through its alsa plugin (you should not need to recompile properly-written apps which do not assume they should write audio data directly to hardware, I think I only needed to recompile mpd on my system)
Cons:-
Setup isn't the easiest. Can't comment vs OSS4 because I haven't tried it
OSS4
Pros:-
Everyone seems to say sound quality is better. I guess that's because they're comparing it with dmix alsa. Use pulse with alsa and you should not notice any difference in sound quality though.
Cons:-
Most apps nowadays default output to alsa. Meaning OSS plays them using an alsa plugin.
USB support is admittedly skimpy.
EDIT: Having read the sound article you referred to, my only comment is that the writer really has it in for Pulse... 3 seconds latency, where'd he get that from? I use pulse for audio recording (when I'm lazy to fire up JACK) and while there IS latency, its definitely in the ms range.
Thanx for the input
Gen2ly wrote:
Gen2ly wrote:...As a side note, do you need libflashsupport here???...
markg85, libflashsupport isn't needed. [1]
pacman -Ql oss | grep flash
If you don't know, please don't put in wiki, this could cause unnecessary problems. As for the mms section:
If your stream sounds ugly in totem like it did with me then you could try to play it with another codec like ffmpeg (mplayer). That "fixed" the issue for me. This will not fix the issue that somehow pops up in gstreamer when playing MMS streams but it will give you the option to play it with good sound quality. Playing it in mplayer is simple:
# mplayer mmsh://yourstreamurl
Could you fix this? ffmpeg is not a codec . Also define ugly, and what is somehow?
markg85 wrote:Thanx a lot for your feedback. i will certainly use it when i make more edits.
As for the things you didn't know. As soon as i fully understand how i can get a microphone working in OSS i will add that to the wiki as well. Unless you already know it.. in that case, feel free to add it.
For the mic, I did get mine going. Can't remember just how I did mine (sorry, think I had to disable one of the inputs), but do remember to prevent it from passing through the speakers had to disable "Misc Microphone".
# ossmix
Selected mixer 0/High Definition Audio ALC888
Known controls are:
jack.green.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently front)
jack.green [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.green.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.black.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently center/LFE)
jack.black [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.black.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.orange.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently rear)
jack.orange [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.orange.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.gray.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently pcm4)
jack.gray [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.gray.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.pink.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently input)
jack.pink [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 19.9:19.9 dB)
jack.pink.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.fp-pink.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently front)
jack.fp-pink [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.fp-pink.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.blue.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently input)
jack.blue [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.blue.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
jack.fp-green.mode <front|rear|center/LFE|side|pcm4|input> (currently front)
jack.fp-green [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 29.9:29.9 dB)
jack.fp-green.mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.mic1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.fp-mic1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.linein1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.fp-headphone1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.green1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.black1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.orange1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.gray1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.input-mix1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix1 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 38.9:38.9 dB)
record.mix.mute.mic2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.fp-mic2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.linein2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.fp-headphone2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.green2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.black2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.orange2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.gray2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix.mute.input-mix2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
record.mix2 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 4.4:2.9 dB)
misc.mic [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 0.0:0.0 dB)
misc.fp-mic [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 46.4:37.4 dB)
misc.linein [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 38.9:38.9 dB)
misc.fp-headphone [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 34.4:34.4 dB)
misc.green [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 34.4:38.9 dB)
misc.black [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 38.9:38.9 dB)
misc.orange [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 38.9:38.9 dB)
misc.gray [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 40.4:41.9 dB)
misc.input-mix <mic|fp-mic|linein> (currently mic)
misc.front-mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.input-mix-mute1 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.front1 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 43.4:43.4 dB)
misc.front2 <front|input-mix> (currently front)
misc.rear-mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.input-mix-mute2 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.rear1 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 4.4:4.4 dB)
misc.rear2 <rear|input-mix> (currently rear)
misc.center/lfe-mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.input-mix-mute3 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.center/lfe1 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 41.9:41.9 dB)
misc.center/lfe2 <center/LFE|input-mix> (currently center/LFE)
misc.side-mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.input-mix-mute4 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.side1 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 35.9:35.9 dB)
misc.side2 <side|input-mix> (currently side)
misc.pcm4-mute ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.input-mix-mute5 ON|OFF (currently OFF)
misc.pcm41 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 25.4:25.4 dB)
misc.pcm42 <pcm4|input-mix> (currently pcm4)
vmix0-enable ON|OFF (currently ON)
vmix0-rate <decimal value> (currently 48000) (Read-only)
vmix0-channels <Stereo|Multich> (currently Stereo)
vmix0-src <Fast|Low|Medium|High|High+|Production|OFF> (currently Medium)
vmix0-outvol <monovol> (currently 25.0 dB)
vmix0-invol <monovol> (currently 25.0 dB)
vmix0.pcm8 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 19.9:19.9 dB) ("knotify4")
vmix0.pcm9 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 25.0:25.0 dB)
vmix0.pcm10 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 25.0:25.0 dB)
vmix0.pcm11 [<leftvol>:<rightvol>] (currently 25.0:25.0 dB)
For libflashsupport on the same page you linked it clearly states:
# Flash V9 and V10 require libflashsupport to output sound via OSS. Typically a 32-bit version of the library is required.
# Flash V10 has a 64-bit version which requires a 64 bit libflashsupport.
Also i tested it with and without libflashsupport. On archlinux (x64 running here) there most certainly is a need for libflashsupport when you want to have sound in your flash. And yes i tested the archlinux OSS version and the mercurial version (running now) bith need it installed manually! On my pc sound in flash didn't work without it but did with it. So, no not removing from the wiki as it's needed. But i see you removed it for me! please do NOT do that if you didn't even verified it. I use flash 10 x64 and i need it!
As for the ffmpeg "codec" changed it to backend.
And i did get the microphone working near perfect: http://www.4front-tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13192
Now for some news you all might like.
On my school i need to do an investigation to whatever i want and i'm heavily thinking about investigating the pros/cons of alsa compared to oss (or oss compared to alsa). That investigation will take from monday next week till next mondey till friday 23 of oktober. In that investigation i'm going to do some in depth look of alsa and oss and that will include the usability as well.
Following up on that investigation i will spend another 8 weeks on my school making a volume control application that can be used with alsa and oss and easily expandable with other sound systems. The goal of this is to make one sound application that can manage (in the first place) alsa and oss. oss is going to be implemented and alsa is probably going to be dummy implemented because it's likely way to much for me to implement both.
Before you get to exited, both projects (investigating and making the application) are just made up today and i just don't know if both will get accepted by my school. I asked one teacher and he liked the idea a lot and could potentially have a value for the sound management under linux. Once i do get this started i will involve the community (YOU!) with this since this project can't be done without the community specially the investigation.
And once i start and have something to tell/ask i will blog about it on http://blog.mageprojects.com
edit::
And this idea already got dumped. read more a few posts down or click: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … 34#p612634
Last edited by markg85 (2009-09-03 17:51:45)
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Leaked Nvidia nForce3 Chipset Drivers Version 4.40
(Please use at your own risk, these are LEAKED drivers. Password for the .zip file is "ocworkbench rules". Also, you will need to rename the WinXP_2K folder in IDE to either WinXP or Win2K else the installer doesn't pick it up.) Thanks for the link Wonkanoby!
*NEW* Leaked Nvidia nForce3 Chipset Drivers Version 5.03
More leaked drivers? Seems some parts of the drivers are older and some are newer.
1. Windows XP Service Pack 1A (Web Install) -or- Windows XP Service Pack 1A (Full Install)
2. Microsoft DirectX 9.0b (Web Install) -or- Microsoft DirectX 9.0b (Full Install)
3. Nvidia nForce3 Chipset Drivers Version 4.24
4. AMD Athlon 64 Processor Driver Version 1.1.0.14
5. Nvidia Video Card Driver Version 56.72 -or- Omega Nvidia Video Card Driver Version v1.5303
(The Omega drivers are third party drivers optimized for gaming, most prefer these over the standard Nvidia drivers.)
5. ATI Video Card Driver Version 4.7 -or- Omega ATI Video Card Driver Version 2.5.51
(The Omega drivers are third party drivers optimized for gaming, most prefer these over the standard ATI drivers.)
6. Onboard Sound Driver (Realtek AC'97 Audio Codec) Version A3.61
It is HIGHLY reccomended that you install the drivers/needed files in the order listed above. Please note that there are two #5's because you either install one or the other depending on your video card, do not install both of them.
You will come across a problem here though. You can't install the chipset drivers without installing the Windows service pack and DirectX first, but the Windows service pack and DirectX installs need the internet to download files and you won't have working internet until you install the chipset drivers. Here's what I did to get around this. Instead of downloading the web install versions of Windows service pack and DirectX, download the full version and and put them along with all the other drivers on a backup hard drive or burn them to a CD, this way you will have all the drivers you need when it's time to install them and none of them will require the internet to download files.
Another note when installing drivers. Apparently the Nvidia chipset drivers also come with drivers for the onboard sound, but people seem to agree that the Realtek onboard sound drivers are better. When you are installing the Nvidia chipset drivers, just be sure to uncheck the box for sound drivers when it asks you which drivers you would like to install. Now you can safely install the Realtek drivers without any chance of conflicting sound drivers. Thanks for the tip Wonkanoby!Quote
Originally posted by RLiu818
Quote
Originally posted by Deviation56
Quote
Originally posted by RLiu818
You CAN install the nforce drivers BEFORE installing SP1. The only requirement to install the nforce drivers is DX9.
So is SP1 still recommended to install before the nforce drivers?
The installer still reccomends to install it beforehand for full USB 2.0 functionality... I would have put what you said in there but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible.
oh. IIRC the installer just says USB 2.0 will be fully functional after SP1 is installed. So after you install SP1 you go into device manager and u click update driver and it will auto search and update the driver.
Simplicity-wise, i guess its pretty much equal. It might take less preparation to just copy DX9 full onto a CD and install that first, then nforce driver, then right away you have yoru internet connection.
but i dunno.. i guess i will try it your way this time when my RMA"d board comes.
i will be fomratting and doing a fresh install later on today and will let you know if i come across any problems -
[SOLVED] Configure The System (Beginners Guide) Question
Hello!
I'm currently working my way through the beginners guide, from the wiki. All going ok so far and I've reached the Configure The System section. Which is where I'm a bit stuck.
Beginners Guide wrote:You will be presented with a menu including the most important configuration files for your system. If you want to look up the available options as stated in /etc/rc.conf just press Alt+F2 to get a shell, look it up, and switch back to the installer with Alt+F1.
The problem I have is looking up the available options. For example, to find my locale it states I should run locale -a, however when I hit Alt+f2 and enter the command at the bash shell ([Arch Linux: /]# ) I get the following error
-bash: locale: command not found
When I attempt to lookup other items I'm also unable to find those (such as timezone in /usr/share/zoneinfo).
Can anyone let me know what I'm doing wrong, I'm missing something very obvious here, but sadly I just can't work it out!
Last edited by Laatia (2008-03-23 08:56:38)dyscoria wrote:
I wouldn't skip all of the steps, particularly adding your hostname to /etc/hosts. Just fill in as much as you can, and edit the rest after you've finished installing, though I think the defaults are safe enough to have a running system.
If you typed in 'km' and chose your locale before you ran the /arch/setup command to start the installation, it should automatically enter in the locale you selected earlier (if you press yes in the dialog box that pops up).
Confirm this as that's what happended in this location on 2 recent install. -
[Solved] Mounting Partitions from Beginners Guide
Hi everyone. I've setup Arch before, but I see that the installer has been removed. I had a question on some of the documentation from the Beginners Guide...
From the section "Prepare the storage drive" it states to setup the partitions like so:
Name Flags Part Type FS Type [Label] Size (MB)
sda1 Boot Primary Linux 15440
sda2 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 1024
sda3 Primary Linux 133000*
In the section below it ("Mount the partitions ") it explains to "mount any other separate partition" like so:
# mkdir /mnt/home
# mount /dev/sda4 /mnt/home
# mkdir /mnt/boot
# mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot
However, I set my partitions up just how it was above, when I put in the syntax "mount /dev/sda4 /mnt/home" I receive an error that sda4 doesn't exist. Using my best judgement I put in "mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/home" as I set my partitions exactly the way from the storage drive section (minus some storage space for sda3). I'd just like to be sure that I set this up right and not doing anything extremely wrong. For some reason, Arch won't boot after I have the system setup in virtualbox, and I'm trying to narrow down the issue.
Thanks.
Last edited by Quill (2012-09-01 04:16:22)Trilby wrote:
It says to do that if you have any additional partitions. You do not.
Sda3 should not be mounted as home, it should be your root partition right? You should have already done
mount /dev/sda3 /mnt
You should not remount sda3 as something else (in fact I suspect it should give an error).
That partition scheme does not have a separate home parition.
Cool, thanks for the info. Yeah, sda3 is set as my root partition. It's solved. -
Intepreting the beginners guide on UEFI
hi..
perhaps someone could clarify for me the meaning on the following text on the beginners guide.
under Gumminboot instructions it states:
You will need to manually create a configuration file to add an entry for Arch Linux to the gummiboot manager. Create /boot/loader/entries/arch.conf and add the following contents, replacing /dev/sdaX with your root partition, usually /dev/sda2:
followed by the command line:
# nano /boot/loader/entries/arch.conf
followed by the text:
title Arch Linux
linux /vmlinuz-linux
initrd /initramfs-linux.img
options root=/dev/sdaX rw
Am I meant to write the above four lines into the menu/screen that opens?
I suspect there may have been an earlier instances where the same 'instruction' was given but as it's not implicit .. it wasn't done.
similarly I get the following error message on attempting to install gummiboot
File System /boot is not a fat EFI system Partition (ESP) file system.
Now I have windows 8 and lubuntu currently installed and they were loading prior to start of this Arch install from a Fat 32 drive labelled /boot/efi.
I wasn't however sure (as the instruction wasn't clear in the installation guide) but was I meant to format a new efi boot or just mount the existing..
I mounted the existing as I was assuming that the ESP is basically a list of boot loaders and I didn't want to lose the win8 just yet.
anymore useful suggestions?
regards
malcolm
I further suspect that this install isn't going too well....
regardswith respect any installation I do is only as good as the tutorial I am using. I have in the past installed moderately complex set ups only 6-12 months later unable to repeat the exercise because the same tutorial is not available. and therein lies the problem.. I like many perform installations at this depth too infrequently to retain the method and thus rely entirely on tutorials.
However the real problem is the 'black box' the bios has become as a consequence of UEFI.. and that's down to a complete lack of documentation (not a linux issue but a PC manufacturers or a failure of to provide documentation) ... one is extremely cautious to do anything that might corrupt the UEFI and require a back to base exercise for the electric brick that might result.
With that in mind I rebooted the PC and whilst no Arch both the win8 and lubuntu partitions and bootloaders were unaffected.. so at least I can repeat my errors to date without destroying my machine (assuming that's possible)...
we will get there in the end and whilst it may not be the walk in the park I'd like it to be .. I will hopefully get a linux OS running that uses all the hardware available and has just the nec configuration to run the programs and local server set up I want...
back to square one in the morning... -
I just installed Archlinux and stumbled over two issues following the Beginners Guide.
No big deal, but still worth to mention, i think.
I don't feel comfortable as a new user to edit the Beginners Guide myself and therefore
discuss these issues here first.
I did read the Beginners Guide while installing. When it came to configure the Xserver,
i chose the Nvidia driver and configured it immediadiately. It complaint that there was
no xorg.conf. The xorg.conf will be generated later, following the tutorial. I think this
should be rearranged somehow.
The second issue is that after executing nvidia-xconfig, it suggests to start the xserver
to see if everything works properly, which it didn't, because hal wasn't installed nor
configured yet, follwing the Beginners Guide. This let me to fiddle around with it a bit
and several annoying restarts, before i decided to just go on with the Guide, to find
a good reason why it didn't just worked then. I think there should be a warning not
to start X after nvidia-xconfig.MickeyKnox wrote:
I just installed Archlinux and stumbled over two issues following the Beginners Guide.
No big deal, but still worth to mention, i think.
I don't feel comfortable as a new user to edit the Beginners Guide myself and therefore
discuss these issues here first.
I did read the Beginners Guide while installing. When it came to configure the Xserver,
i chose the Nvidia driver and configured it immediadiately.
Could you explain this further?
It complaint that there was
no xorg.conf. The xorg.conf will be generated later, following the tutorial.
It sounds like you failed to follow the guide, but I am having a difficult time understanding what you want changed. If you followed the order of the guide, wouldn't it have worked out properly?
The second issue is that after executing nvidia-xconfig, it suggests to start the xserver
to see if everything works properly, which it didn't, because hal wasn't installed nor
configured yet, follwing the Beginners Guide. This let me to fiddle around with it a bit
and several annoying restarts, before i decided to just go on with the Guide, to find
a good reason why it didn't just worked then. I think there should be a warning not
to start X after nvidia-xconfig.
Perhaps a note, explaining not to test the server at that point would be appropriate. -
Beginners guide screwed|Is impossible to edit large pages on the wiki
When you're trying to edit a large page on the wiki you get this message:
WARNING: This page is 40 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.
Firefox can handle the 40kb but not the 107kb of the Begginers Guide for example.
And when you do a change, if you dont preview it you get a shiny blank page instead of the document.
I was trying to add one line to the Oficcial installation guide and ended up breaking it into two parts (i move the apendix to another page) to be able to recover it's contents.
Some other person form #archlinux that was helping me with this issue also accidentally override the text from the Beginners guide, and we can't roll back it. So, any WikiAdmin can roll back the changes on the Beginners guide? and tell us (the normal users) how to edit long pages.
Thanks
Last edited by __void__ (2009-01-21 16:34:47)__void__ wrote:
When you're trying to edit a large page on the wiki you get this message:
WARNING: This page is 40 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.
Firefox can handle the 40kb but not the 107kb of the Begginers Guide for example.
And when you do a change, if you dont preview it you get a shiny blank page instead of the document.
I was trying to add one line to the Oficcial installation guide and ended up breaking it into two parts (i move the apendix to another page) to be able to recover it's contents.
Some other person form #archlinux that was helping me with this issue also accidentally override the text from the Beginners guide, and we can't roll back it. So, any WikiAdmin can roll back the changes on the Beginners guide? and tell us (the normal users) how to edit long pages.
Thanks
Some other person here, sorry about that accidental Beginner's guide trash up
Mr.Elendig wrote:For future reference, don't edit the whole page at once, just edit a section of it. When you are logged in, every section have a 'edit' button/link.
Got it!
Last edited by zaggynl (2009-01-22 09:35:03) -
A few doubts in the 'beginners guide'
Hello, I'm trying out arch (still with virtualbox), and I'm following the 'beginners guide' on the wiki.
I managed to install it but ended up with a few doubts, about some parts of the installation.
On the "Partition Hard Drives" part, it says that there are 3 types of disk partitions (primary, extended, logical), but when I'm creating the partitions with cfdisk, I can only choose between primary and logical. Does the extended gets created automatically when I create some logical partitions?
When I have to set the filesystem mountpoints, I think that I don't do anything to the /dev/sda (I only set the ones with numbers at the end - the partitions), but I don't think the wiki is clear on this, the only thing I see there is this part: "Recall that partitions end in a number. Therefore, sda is not itself a partition, but rather, signifies an entire drive" which is easily overlooked when you don't understand much.
When you need to choose the mirrors (/etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist), the wiki doesn't tell much. For example, what is the difference between choosing ftp or http servers? do you choose both? In the beginning there's a server that has as a comment #any, does this mean it will choose automatically which server it will use?
that's it... for now :)moosie wrote:For the hard drive part, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but sda refers to the whole drive where as sda# refers to a partition, one might say portion, of this drive; i.e sda1 would be the first partition sda2 the second and so on. As for the mirrors for the difference between ftp and http refer to this link: http://daniel.haxx.se/docs/ftp-vs-http.html I haven't read this but it seems to be a good source of knowledge. Also for the mirrors and the install as a whole I recommend watching this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjTTl_9aUXc in the video the reflector and curl are used to come up with the fastest mirrors based on your location and he goes through the whole installation process all the way to the point where he installs gnome.
In general, if you're not sure of something, better not to post it. Also, don't do googling for someone else, Arch users are expected to be competent to do their own research. Else you end up feeding help vampires (not necessarily saying the OP is one). -
Remembering the days when I installed Arch Linux for the first time I still feel that Arch misses a guide for beginners. I started one at the Wiki. Its intention is to show how you install and configure Arch Linux until you have a fully working desktop system for multimedia and office purpose. I'm still heavily improving it. If you have any suggestions or critics feel free to drop me a note or add the content to the wiki. If you find some spelling or grammar errors do the same or fix them, I'm no native speaker
iphitus wrote:article is too big. provide links to existing wiki pages and documentation. If things change and you dont know, your article will be broken.
Sure...but you will have this problem with all wiki pages. If you don't have a maintainer for bigger articles, the whole idea of the wiki won't work well.
iphitus wrote:For example, change the install documentation to the install guide. Same goes for network, link to existing pages, and if there isnt one, create one.
I disagree with this one. I personally like the idea of having one basic guide which will led in most cases to a fully working system and does not stop right after the installation, which will leave you with a single prompt. I tried to explain the "basic things" and give links for digging deeper (I may have failed at this, but I tried and will try again).
Therefore you are right about linking, but as you may have seen I tried to link to existing pages if they exist and give more than just a basic information. As far as I know no install guide for voodoo exists yet.
What I really don't want to do, is to create just a meta page that only links to other pages, for three reasons:
* It's annoying to read if you have to follow a link, get back and follow the next link...
* Because there is no single maintainer for all the sub pages, you can only link to pages that are known stable, otherwise the beginner will be totally lost fast
* Some of the other pages are way too technically for a beginner, they quickly start with special things for exotic purposes (mainly because experienced people don't like writing about basic things I believe)
iphitus wrote:Some of it seems a bit overkill too, you give a newbie style how to for tiny things, but completely gloss over even a basic description of what the "daemons line" is. Newbies using this beginners guide learn bugger all, as they just copy from the beginner guide. When things go wrong, they come to the forums rather than use initiative. I guess the installation and configuration acts as a form of natural selection.
I think we have a different opinion how a wiki works, I always thought you start with something and improve it over time, when questions or suggestions arrive.
A wiki will get better if more than one people is involved, therefore sharing and discussing at an early point of time is reasonable.
On the other hand you are absolutely right about the daemons line, which should be explained for a beginner (EDIT: I added a paragraph about daemons a few moments ago).
But I think differently about the natural selection. I never felt that Arch Linux aims to be an elitist distribution and that an acceptance test is needed if you want to use it...what I have seen from the community so far, Arch seems in fact to be the opposite. I like Arch for being clean, simple and logical constructed, not for being complicated. I'm too old to get self-confidence just from installing an operating system.
If users use the forum to ask the same questions again and again, our beginners guide is incomplete and we should fix it.
iphitus wrote:Things like:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arc … or_newbies
and a better FAQ, would be more useful than yet another blow by blow install tutorial that falls out of date in 6 months.
James
This may not be representative, but a better FAQ and Jargon for Newbies (damn, I really love this elite attitude ) wouldn't helped him:
Someone at my blog wrote:Thanks for the guide! I tried installing Arch over Christmas and had the worst time trying to figure that out. So I of course went back to my trusty Gentoo. I always liked Gentoo because even though its an "advanced distro" they provide you with plenty of documentation. Arch on the other hand does not and that really bothered me. But now that I have a Gentoo style guide, I think I'll try it again!
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your criticism because it makes me think twice about some things and will most probably lead to a better guide.
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