Best Time-Stretch algorithm?

Although Logic's time-stretch algorithm's have come on a long way over the years, they're still no match for 3rd party equivalents.
I've been very impressed with Serato's Pitch n Time, & Melodyne, but wondered if I've over-looked any others? Any opinions on the most transparent time-stretch algorithm or software out there? (Primarily for monophonic sources - mainly vocals).

Aside from the ones you've mentioned I'm not sure there is much else thats comparable - except Pro Tools but thats a different kettle of fish.
I think aside from DNA in Melodyne, they improved the general monophonic algorithm in the new version and it's much better than it was.

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Looking for an application that has great time stretch capabilities

Hello all,
I have Logic Pro 8 and I am still learning its capabilities. I do alot of sound design stuff and am looking for a spectacular time stretching application. I've fiddled with Logic's time stretch algorithms but so far I'm not thrilled with the results. I'm interested in really stetching things out to create new sounds. Here is a great example from Nine Inch Nails. It's a remix of Eraser off of Further Down The Spiral.
This particular remix version is called "Erased, Over, & Out." Here is an amazon link to have a listen.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VZOBGI/ref=dmmu_dptrk11?ie=UTF8&qid=1212078077&sr=1-1
The vocals are EXTREMELY stretched out and take the form of a pad almost.
He is actually saying, "Erase me." Keep in mind the original vocal is only about 3 seconds long. I'd like to provide that example but the Amazon sample isn't long enough to get to that part. Maybe download it to listen. It's called Eraser, it's from "The Downward Spiral" album. (1994)
Now, does anyone know if Logic is capable of getting this good a result like the sample I provided? I've seen PT Elastic Time stretching capabilities and it sounds awesome, at least what I've heard from their demo video on elastic time. Can the same results be achieved in Logic Pro 8?
If not, what plugin do you recommend that could achieve this EXTREME time stretching stuff. Or, does anyone know what Nine Inch Nails used to get that effect on the vocals for that particular remix? I just think it's a limitless tool for sound design, but right now I'm feeling limited in the sound quality department. I know I can keep stretching and stretching and stretching the sample region but that sounds a digital mess when I get it to the point were I want it, so please, don't suggest I do that, unless you know a way to make it sound REALLY GOOD in Logic using the algorithms that come with the program. Step by step info would be lovely.
Thanx in advance...
TTW13

ported to the Mac
it's on my other Mac
is their a Mac version?
It seems a safe bet, eh..?
I'm pretty sure the mac link was posted to that thread I linked to, it's where I found out about it...
http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35638&highlight=&sid=c2dcbfd c2af80e0fdf9da04b91319e1d

Time stretch help please. These manuals are a PITA..

Hi all,
Well first a minor rant about the documentation with Logic Pro 7, for some reason no matter what task I need to perform I look into the reference guide and the plugin reference which are the two main books supplied with this application and all these books do is lightly discuss the the function of what you are researching.
As an example time stretching, I looked in the manual and then did a search for the online resource while in logic for the work time stretch, so it covers the details and explains that this function can be performed from the arrange window which is what I am trying to accomplish since I am working with a look and do not know its BPM, I would just like to strecth it down by bars/beats and make things fit.
I actually stumbled onto this once, but whern I try and review how to actually do this in the manual all I get it some very vague info that it can be done, unfortunately it just does not say how lol...
Am I missing something here? am I not looking in the right manual? I remeber way back before I moved to Nuendo I used to be in LAP 3 and the massive documentation actually told you how to perform the task your looking to do.
So I guess this is a two part question hehe.
1. How the heck do I perform this form the arrange window.
and
2. Am I just blkind and not looking at the right documentation here?
Thanks for your time and understanding, I just feel like a deer in headlights. Its like I know what the task is I am trying to accomplish and when I go to RTM I get just some info about that Logic can perform this function.
Maybe the manual expects you to have previous version knowledge.
Ahh anyways, thanks for hearing my rant and any assistance you can offer to me.
Cheers!

If they are looking for another Algo then how else can you explain that comment?
I'm sure if and when the OP has a problem with the sound of the algorithms in logic, he'll say so. for now, all the questioning has been about how to get a technique going where you can get your audio to the tempo you need it quickly and effectively in logic. we all know other apps like cubase and nuendo have more intuitive ways to do this right in the arrange window, but you can get a decent workflow going in logic as well. I don't have the time to get into it now but will try to post tomorrow.
I read that some suggest that its wise to buy a 3rd party pluggin like Izotopes?
3rd party add ons like izotope or serato aren't going to help you in terms of the way you use timestretching in logic... they don't add any functionality to the arrange window to make it easier to drag a region to stretch it like in cubase or anything like that. what they add is additional timestretching algorithms to logic that sound a whole lot better, but the way you actually access it in logic remains the same. I've not heard the izotope one, but I've used serato a lot in protools and it's one of the best I've heard, certainly better than the logic ones.
anyway as I said earlier I'll try and post tomorrow with some of my technique. I've done a lot of remixing in logic so I've had to do quite a bit of timestretching.
to be honest though, I really think sonther's post about the BPM counter plug in is the best way to get started. it sounds like you're used to just being able to grab the edge of a region and either stretch it longer or squeeze it shorter (in a different app obviously) and have the timestretch happen there and then.. and just do this until you got it sounding right. this way you don't ever really need to know the actual BPM of your original loop cos you can just drag it till it 'works'. sadly I don't think there's anything this simple in logic's arrange window to do it like this. but using the BPM counter, once you know the loop's BPM, you can just double click on it to open the sample editor window, open the time machine, type in the original tempo and the destination tempo in the corresponding fields, choose an algorithm that's appropriate and process it.
another idea you could try is the 'adjust region length to locators' function. say your audio is a 4 bar loop, and it perfectly loops at it's original tempo. so try putting it at the start of a bar, then drag a cycle region from the start of that bar to the end of 4 bars. the loop region should be either longer than the cycle or shorter (depending on if it's faster than your tempo or slower). select it, then use the function 'adjust region length to locators' (it's somewhere in the arrange window submenu, maybe under 'region', am not in front of logic now), making sure you selected an appropriate algorithm from the same menu. so now the loop will be timestretched or timesquished to fit to exactly that 4 bar length, meaning that it should now loop correctly, at the song tempo, over those 4 bars.
I have more technique I use if you're interested in hearing more, let me know as I haven't the time to go into it now. btw, if you use loops a lot and need to be able to control the groove and feel of audio files often for the music you make.. you should look at melodyne. there's an AU plug in version now that works very well in logic. I use it all the time.. most people know it as a pitch correction thing and just think of autotune when they think of it.. but it is an absolutely awesome tool for working with percussion and loops as well.
as a matter of fact, melodyne plug in could be just what you need. it gives you total control of the timing of audio, so you can regroove anything, shift stuff around, quantize the audio, and your loops will follow tempo once they've been melodyned. I used it recently on a project that had lots of badly played percussion loops that were sloppy and loose. fixed everything in no time, while keeping the groove. and in the bargain it sounds better than the timestretching algorithms in logic too.
go take a look.

Looking for a time-stretching app

Can you guys recommend your favourite time-stretching app? I'd like to find an easier way of lining up transients to beats, for example.
Thanks,
Shaun

Logic Pro 8 is also the application to use for time-stretching though!
See page 525 *Time Stretching Regions* in the *Logic Pro 8 User Manual*.
shamca wrote:
I know the marquee tool, but I don't see how it can be used to time stretch ?
However, from your original post, now I'm thinking you don't really mean simple time stretching, but you mean doing something more like quantizing audio. Actually, I do use the transient capabilities of the marquee tool to find note beginnings and then move them to a bar location, which actually is a form of audio quantization.
However, Logic also has an audio quantize feature.
Check page 517 of the *Logic Pro 8 User Manual*. I have used this with varying amounts of success.
If you own Ableton Live, it has a better method (IMHO) for quantizing audio by doing something they call "warp markers". With Live, you simply place a warp marker on each transient (note start) that you wish to move, and then move it to the desired bar location. Live then time stretches your audio to match. Because it requires you to select these places, it is more seamless and has less artifacts than the algorithmic method in Logic. Still, if I only need to move a few note beginnings, I prefer to just stay in Logic and do it with the marquee tool.

Choppy or Digitized Audio w Time Stretch

Hi Guys,
I've got some audio I've been chopping and time stretching (voiceover to replace a video with poor audio). The VO was recorded in a 96kHz 24bit WAV file, and sounds great when I first played it. However, after I've been chopping (with the blade tool) and timestretching in STP, I'm finding that the audio now sounds digitized or choppy.
Does anyone know what's happening here and what I can do to fix it?
You can get a better idea of my process here. . .
Thanks,
Lawrence
Message was edited by: Lawrence Ingram_Ii

Varispeed only works on the Masterbus, the final output of all tracks. Bouncing the output leaves you a 2-track master.
It's not an easy task because for one, your software tracks are MIDI based, their output is indeed audio but input is MIDI. To use Varispeed you would have to individually bounce each track/take, a mammoth job.
Perhaps someone can help you with Flex which may be you're best bet but is something I don't use very often.

Time Stretch Problem!

Using Logic pro 9.1.5 I Noticed that when I'm time stretching a track. Once finished, The Level of the track is 3db or more lower than the Original Level !!!! Does anybody know why this happens and if there is anything to do to fix this?

Well, audio is not exactly like a rubber band, I guess it all depends on the harmonic structure of your audio and the way the stretch algorithm manipulates the data, but my knowledge of digital audio processing doesn't go deep enough to fully explain this. The way I see it is that these algorithms have some sort of safeguard feature preventing the level going up - which I imagine could also happen, given the complex interactions of sound etc etc. A rubber band behaves much more predictable - it's the same basic stuff, reacting in a way that requires very simple mathematical formulae. Audio is much more varied an complex than latex.
What you could do, purely as "scientific" exercise, is to create a 30 second audio file, consisting of a constant sinewave at 1 kHz at, let's say, -6 dBfs, and see how that behaves levelwise when stretching it (try both stretching it longer AND shorter ("negative" sretching).
You can use Logics' Test Oscillator insert effect for this, it's in the Utilities section of the plugins.
To me it would make sense that these algorithms are somehow erring on the safe side - the one thing that you wouldn't want is the level to go UP and possibly clip your audio. But again, I don't know, just trying to use logic...

Time stretch function based on frames...

Hey everyone!
Okay so I have an audio file which I've tried to match up to a video file in FCP, the audio is aprox 130 frames faster than the video after about 45 minutes in the timeline.
based on that information is there a certain way to adjust it in Soundtrack using the time stretch function? or is it all guess work? I tried to follow a simple online tutorial on time stretching but I couldn't seem to comprehend how to do it in my circumstance, so I guess it wasn't so simple.
I would really appreciate any help you folks can offer.
THank you very much.

There doesn't seem to be any normal pull up or pull down factor at work here, likely just 2 unclocked devices.
The best bet is measure the video length in STP - HH.MM.SS.ss and then apply the TimeStretch process to the audio file to make it the same length. Even then it may not be in perfect sync all the way through the program because of drifting clocks when it was recorded.

Anyone besides me having problems using Time Stretch/Compression?

Each time I use this feature on a voice, it ends up sound doubled in various parts of the dialogue. Any tips?
Cuzin

I know exactly where you are coming... this is 'normal' and everyone has the same problem..
Have you experimented with the different Time Factory settings?
The algorithm you set in time factory (sample editor) is the algo used in the arrange stretching.
It isn't up to scratch at the moment and I run ProToysLE in the background just for time stretching and audio timer correcting etc.
Another option is the Serato logic plugin (which also runs in Time Factory and apparently appears in the listed set of algos, though I haven't used this)
I use Melodyne for more critical things.

High quality time stretch

After experimenting with time stretch in Audition 3.0 for a project, and comparing the best I could obtain from that with the best I could obtain with "Amazing Slow-Downer" (ASD), I found ASD to produce better time stretching. I still need to do some more experimenting, but this leads me to wonder if people have recommendations for stand-alone software or Audition plugins for good quality time stretching.

DEF need another app to get anything usable for time stretching.i would suggest melodyne for using it INSIDE of logic. outside of L8 you could use either melodyne or waves soundshifter (although the waves needs a host that will 'apply' plugins to the waveforms like cubase or pro tools.
these 2 yeild the best results, or you could get pro tools and give the X-Form plug a try, really nice results (the best IMO for strictly timestretching). melodyne will give the option of fixing timing inside the file as well.
just a couple of options.
oh, and theres izotope radius that will let you use it in place of L8s time machine, but would prob come in 3rd behind the other suggestions as far as quality.

Time stretch audio file to match tempo of track

Hi everyone, I am a new user of Logic express, and have found the info on this site extremely helpful, in conjunction with SFlogicninja's tutorials on youtube.
However, after watching a recent tutorial on Time stretching audio, i am now completely confused. Similar to the tutorial, i am trying to fit an audio region(an acapella track) to the tempo of the project. I have beat mapped the region to establish a tempo, but would like to experiment with slowing down or speeding up the track as a whole. As the acapella was created outside of Logic, i am bouncing the acapella track in order to be able to 'follow tempo'(as shown in the inspector). I have disabled the 'normalize' checkbox and bounced, but the bounced track still does not have the 'follow tempo' option in the inspector.
Any ideas as to why my bounced files cannot follow tempo. I can do it with audio that i create in Logic, but if i import any files, i was under the impression that by bouncing it within Logic, i could still obtain the same results?
I'm running out of hair to pull out!

Lennysapple wrote:
Oh really, it is supposed to be fixed in v 9.1.7
Then I'll have to give it a try.
Hi
Seems to work OK here
Lennysapple wrote:
Did I understand correctly that just by ""renaming"" Logic 9.1.6 inside the application folder it will keep it functioning in case I wanna revert to it later??
Yep (but you will probably still need one called "Logic Pro" to get Software Update to see it)
I have mine setup to quickly switch from 32bit to 64 bit (2 copies with different names) and also previous versions.... works fine
CCT

Time stretch has stopped working in Premiere Elements 13.

I've downloaded the latest Adobe updates. I am using a Windows 8 64 bit computer. I have previously (in the last few weeks) used time stretch to speed up and slow down without any problems but now I can't get it to work in any of my projects. All video files shot with an iPod Touch or iPhone. Has anyone else had this problem? Any ideas on how to fix it?

Chris
As a point of reference for your Premiere Elements 13 question, I have a iPod Touch 4th generation (H.264.mov 1280 x 720 @ 24 progressive frames per second), and I have no problems using Time Stretch or Time Remapping in a 13/13.1 project or other versions.
I would invoke the interference of a possible variable frame rate rather than a constant one involved with your particular type of video (from iPod or iPhone) and Time Stretch, but I am not having any problem with my iPod Touch video (with minimal variable frame rate) and Time Stretch in Premiere Elements. If you want to explore that idea further, you could convert your video's variable frame into a constant one using the free HandBrake program. Then import HandBrake's H.264.mp4 export into your Premiere Elements 13/13.1 project and determine if you can then apply Time Stretch to that clip.
Have you applied the Shake Stabilizer to your clip before trying to apply the Time Stretch? For that matter, what effects, if any, have you applied to your video clip before trying to apply Time Stretch to it?
All of the above is based on Time Stretch no working for you in a new project with new source media.
ATR

TIME STRETCH

How is the new timestretch you lucky people, im still waiting for my upgrade.

Matt Mayfield wrote:
In Digital Performer, timestretching is constructive (creates a new audio file), and when you timestretch something multiple times, it always references the ORIGINAL file. That way you avoid adding artifacts on top of artifacts every time.
Does Logic do this yet, and if not, how do you do a similar thing "by hand?"
In logic, sadly this is not yet automated. What you "should" do, is double click on the region you're going to timestrech (which will bring up the sample editor) and then back-up the audio file before performing the stretch.
The actual command is Audiofile -> Backup, but Command-B is the keyboard shortcut so you can just hit that keystroke before you time-stretch - and then you can revert without worry.
Remember that you can also set the number of time stretch undos in logic's preferences.

Gradual Time Stretch - Is it Possible???

I'm using logic to mix together a heap of songs. Naturally they all have different tempos.
I'm using the quick and dirty time stretch method (option+drag) on the audio clips. I'm wondering, is it possible to automate some how a gradual time stretch, so the clip starts slower then speeds up?
I guess I'm trying to emulate the changing speed capabilities of a pair of turntables in Logic.

This may not be totally what you're looking for, but check out a little free AU called Turntablist. You can find it here: http://destroyfx.smartelectronix.com/audiounits.html
You load it up in an instrument track, then load an aiff straight into the AU, and you can speed up, slow down, scratch, etc, and it sounds really nice.
If you really want an app with a lot of flexibility to manipulate files and tempo, pitch, etc on the fly, check out Live. It's much more suited to that stuff.
Good Luck!

Burn Audio CD and Time Stretching audio - software on the iMac?

I have a new iMac 24 running OSX 10.4.9 and had two questions:
1) Is there software on the iMac for buring an Audio CD? Created a song and I am trying to figure this one out.
2) Is Garageband able to time-stretch a song? I need to edit some performance songs that need to end at a specific time. I use Sonar on my PC to do this but wondered if Garageband or another utility on my iMac could handle this.
Thanks!

1) iTunes will do that (not GB). Just create a playlist and click "Burn Audio CD". (That's the default setting.)
2) GarageBand can do that, but you'll have to play around a lot to achieve it. I'd recommend an audio editor like Audacity or SoundStudio - there you can change the tempo of a song (without affecting the pitch), and it will tell you immediately how long the result will be.

Time stretching a piece of audio in LE7

I've been using Cubase for years and since I have been doing alot of remix work lately alot of the songs are being sent have been in Logic so I got a copy of Logic Express and I'm able to navigate my way around the basics with no problem. In Cubase SX3 -or CB4 you can time stretch a sample from lets say 124 to 126 bpm. The only thing I see in Logic is the time machine? Is this the way to do what I need to do? I know, I know, read the manual but since I have to work quickly I thought I'd ask here. Any help?
rd

I've been using Cubase for years and since I have been doing alot of remix work lately alot of the songs are being sent have been in Logic so I got a copy of Logic Express and I'm able to navigate my way around the basics with no problem. In Cubase SX3 -or CB4 you can time stretch a sample from lets say 124 to 126 bpm. The only thing I see in Logic is the time machine? Is this the way to do what I need to do? I know, I know, read the manual but since I have to work quickly I thought I'd ask here. Any help?
rd

Best Time-Stretch algorithm?

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