Canon 7D H.264 workflow

Hello,
I'm testing workflow for a Canon 7D through FCP.
I recently imported the H.264 clips directly into FCP, and edited a test sequence from that. I then exported a quicktime to send to the lab to be transferred to HDCam SR for a projection test.
When I exported this quicktime (current settings, trying to keep it all native) I noticed it was only about 500MB for a 12 minute sequence. However, if you look at the individual clips, a 60 second clip is about 400-450MB. Why is the exported Quicktime so small? I was expecting it to be at least 6 or 7 GB based on the size of the files created by the camera. Is this an H.264 thing? Where is the extra data going?
In the future we will be converting to pro-res for the edit, but I wanted to try and keep everything native for the test in case converting to pro-res adds any kind of additional compression to the footage. (does it?)
Thanks for any insight you might have!
-K.

The thought is;
1. Key a greenscreen shot (in SHAKE or MOTION) and export the shot with an alpha channel in 4444
2. Color-correct the shot in COLOR and render this out
3. Take the color-corrected shot into SHAKE, where I re-create the clip with alpha using a channel copy
4. Use the now color-corrected keyed shot and do a bit of comping...
Can this or something similar be done in an other format, or is this the exceptions where using ProRes 4444 is a good idea for a 7D user?

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Premiere CS6 / Canon 5D / Plural Eyes / Workflow .

Hello there,
looking for workflow solutions. switching from FCP 7 - Premiere CS6.
Editing 2 canon 5D cameras. (1920 x 1080 23.976)
Audio recorded on Zoom.
Sync with Plural Eyes
Final output Web HD / ipad
Found that I need to export new master clips with audio and video synced for multi-cam to work seamlessly in Premiere CS6 (and also for preservation purposes). What should my export settings in the Media Encoder be for my new masterclips? When I select .H264 it defaults to the Android tablet setting and produces poor quality renders (pixelated and banding) and if I select use sequence settings, I get an mpeg codec that my computer does not recognize.
Any and all suggestions welcomed. Many thanks!

Now I'm intrigued. Did you ever do this with Premiere pro CS 5.5 and experience the slipping? I have on occasion experienced some slipping with very long spanned clips in 5.5 but this is understandable.
Anyway, if I wanted to export a new clip at the best quality I could, I would use Prores 422 HQ. I often do that in some projects if I'm using a lot of effects on a particular clip because Premiere Pro will just bog down. So in the sequence I set the in and out points for the work area, then just export that section as Prores 422 HQ highest render quality. Then I import that .mov and place it above the clip in the sequence and then deactivate the original clip so it doesn't get bogged down. Later if I wanted to, I could deactivate the .mov and reactivate the original to get the best quality but this type of transcode to prores is not really noticable. This is on a Mac with the prores codecs installed. If I was on a PC, I have heard good things about Cineform and DNXHD files. I would not use a long GOP codec such as any of the mpeg or H.264 flavors but if you have to use H.264 I'd use one for blu ray with a very high bitrate. I have a custom H.264 one that I use for uploads to Vimeo and Youtube that is VBR from 14-40 mbs and this results in really good results when Youtube and Vimeo do their web-ready conversions.
The slipping, however seems strange and might be a bug in CS6.

*Shocked* by the performance of Canon DPP, and DDP workflow with Aperture

I love Aperture. My brother mercilessly hounded me for two years, and when Aperture 2 came out, I gave it a shot. Aperture 3, despite my nightmare conversion story, has been a dream come true . . . until I discovered sharpening.
In my quest to get sharper photos, I've toyed with image stabilization, tripods, higher shutter speeds, steadying the camera, and depth of field, and even bought several professional lenses. My photos STILL did not look as sharp as those I saw in galleries and online. But wait . . . my JPEG files from my sporting events did . . .
I read that RAW files are not sharp, and sharpening is applied to JPEGs on the camera. But why is Aperture and my MBP not able to sharpen photos well using any one of the three sharpening sliders or the sharpening tool? I was then led to DPP, kicking and screaming. What I discovered was truly amazing.
Forget about the personal opinions with warmth and contrast between Aperture, ACR, and DPP. DPP is the unquestioned leader in producing sharp photos from RAW images. You drag the slider . . . it's sharp. It's even sharper than the photos I've spent 20 minutes sharpening in CS5 with sharpening masks, sharpening tool, etc. The DPP tool JUST WORKS. Even noise with high ISO is MUCH improved. High noise still can use an expensive tool to correct, but still MUCH better than Aperture.
Until Canon reveals their secrets to Apple and Adobe for RAW processing, I need to figure out a way to use DPP for RAW processing.
For those that use DPP for RAW processing, how to you work it into your workflow? I want Aperture to be a one-stop shop, but I don't want to store the original RAW, the DPP-edited RAW, and potentially a TIFF for additional editing and noise reduction?
Do you sort in Aperture first? Do you convert in DPP first? How do you maintain file integrity, and at the same time, minimize disk space usage?
If you no longer use DDP, please tell me why, and how you've worked around it?

All I can say is, either I've been in the weeds all this time, or your skills with sharpening are better than most.
A couple of questions:
1-What do you use under Sharpening for and Edges under "RAW fine tuning" you thankfully shared your settings for Edge Sharpen (^s)
2-What camera and RAW format are you using (this may help me fine-tune my preferences). I've got a 7D and primarily shoot MRAW. (Not the best for a couple reasons, but I don't need or want the large file sizes.)
To be sure, default sharpening in Aperture is pretty bad. And I have played with sharpening going on 40 hours now over several months. I could not get a good result.
Your documenting the exact settings and sharpening tool is what helped me get past whatever I was doing before. Maybe I was thrown by the higher default contrast in DPP. I'm now able to produce a better result in Aperture than DPP, or even my laboriously-sharpened photos on Photoshop. There are some tradeoffs in each, but I didn't want to use DDP as part of my workflow. Now that I've used it more, I'm convinced I don't!
And the definition setting is very useful. It's the only mainstream adjustment I've never really used.

Canon HV20 24P HDV workflow, Some things with FCP and Quicktime are ODD.

Canon HV20, 24P, HDV, CMOS sensor...
First, I do hope and pray that the FCP dudes are making this work native at HDV 24p -- great!
But until then, there's a workflow (see below) and a real oddity I can't figure out, and if anyone has any thoughts about it that would be great.
Sometimes, the image captured/shown/exported is a lighter picture, and other capture/playing/export methods are darker picture. Example: the captured 60i from Final Cut Pro has a light gamma picture when viewed in Quicktime Player.
But playback in Final Cut Pro appears darker, and rich. But then exporting it out turns it light again, but export out to a MPEG-2 DVD is darker again? ODD.
Can anyone explain the FCP capture size of 1888 x 1062?
Anyhow, here is some workflow success that I had.
Capturing in Final Cut Pro using the HDV 1080/60i setting with HDV firewire basic NDF. But 60i is evil. So that's not enough. Got to get it to 24P,since that allows 20% more bandwidth, space, faster renders, and DVD players can play it.
Transcoding to a regular editing codec before converting to 24P is required. I found that MPEG Streamclip would create a wierd, jagged edges on small moving figures with high contrast, no matter what the settings, so I refuse to use it to export the footage.
So instead, FCP has an additional capture option of "Apple Intermediate Codec" or something like that, which transcribes it on the fly to AIC. I always stayed away from AIC like the plague, but they must have spent some time with it because it's nearly identical to the HDV original.
Next, open up in Quicktime Player, and start the clip on that second P frame. Sounds odd, I know. Goto the first interlaced frame, and back up two frames. Mark the "I", and then move that Out marker to the end, and then Trim the clip to the selection. Do that with all the clips, and then you can batch 24P them all.
If you don't want to find that one frame each time, here are the other settings:
First, open up the clip inside cinema tools, and then select Rev. Telecine button.
Find out which of these your clip is doing at the very beginning:
p-p-i-i-p - aa
p-i-i-p-p - bb
i-p-p-p-i - bc
p-p-p-i-i - cd
i-i-p-p-p - this is no good. must remove at least one frame from the beginning of source file
i = interlaced frame
p = progressive frame
all settings use the F1-F2, style one, standard upper/lower

Sometimes, the image captured/shown/exported is a lighter picture, and other capture/playing/export methods are darker picture. Example: the captured 60i from Final Cut Pro has a light gamma picture when viewed in Quicktime Player.
But playback in Final Cut Pro appears darker, and rich. But then exporting it out turns it light again, but export out to a MPEG-2 DVD is darker again? ODD.
This is known. This happens with ANY footage you look at in FCP and QT player. QT lightens the gamma of the footage. Why? Something to do with adjusting the image for computer monitors.
Shane

Canon 60D and HDV workflow

Looking for suggestions on this workflow...any better way to do it? I shoot and edit primarily in HDV, with a little added footage from a Canon 60D, resulting in two different video formats. I don't want to mix them in one timeline, requiring frequent renders -- so my solution for now is to ingest the 60D as prores 422, edit it in a prores timeline, then send to Compressor and downconvert to HDV 60i, which I can then bring into my main HDV project and easily mix. I have been happy editing in HDV despite frequent urgings in this forum to ingest as prores. So this is working but I'm still wondering is this the best route for combining these two formats. BTW 60D video looks good, except when you move the camera, so best shot locked down. Better than FX7 in low light. Nice machine, unobtrusive, good for candids.

Unless very little of the media is from the 60D and/or you have to output back to tape you're better off doing it the other way around. Gets you out of the whole world of conforming an MPEG codec, which is very weak codec for compositing.

VIDEO_TS to H.264 workflow

Hello,
I would like to transcode a video DVD to an H.264 file in order to access it with Front Row. Any hints how to import the VIDEO_TS folder to Compressor 3?
Thank you.
Fernando

Also "Instant Handbrake" (son of handbrake)

Canon EOS 7-D/Workflow Final cut Pro questions.

Today i just upgraded my final cut pro from 5 to the latest 7.0.3, and im having trouble viewing my clips.
First off, im very confused.
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3249
i read this entire article and still cant view my clip in the timeline. Here's what im doing.
I plugged in my card into a card reader,
next i opened final cut pro, and i opened up log and transfer.
my clips are all there, and i can preview them all.
Step 3 is what confuses me.
3. In the Import Preferences window, select 'Canon DSLR' as your Source, and then select the Transcode to format of your choice (such as ProRes 422).
when i open up my settings/preferences in the log/transfer settings i cant seem to find "canon dslr, or how to make it my "source".
instead, i see AVCHD PLugin, P2 PLug in, MPEG2 Consumer Cameras, and Canon E1. i selected the Obvious Canon E1 (because thats the plug in you download) and when i added it to the queue it finished and i am still unable to see it in the right window. There's audio but the screen is white.
So the burning questions i have..
What am i doing wrong?
What do you use for your easy format or custom format?

First don't use Final Cut to import directly from the card. Use Disc Utility to make a new image of the card from your card reader onto a hard drive. Make a back up copy of this by dragging it to another drive if possible. Now if anything goes wrong you are secure. Open one of these disk images and log and transfer from them with FCP.
You do this by opening log and transfer window. Use the top left button in the window to point to the files. On the other side of the left pane at the top open preferences, select the Canon E1 but then double click the little arrows which should open another window and offer a selection of versions of ProRes, choose Apple ProRes or ProRes LT, anything higher is overkill. Select the files you want and add them to the import queue. They should start importing automatically. You should be able to see files appearing in logging bin progressively. Whilst the import is happening do not touch anything else in FCP, allow the whole import to finish before playing with them.

Canon 5D h.264 files to Prores introduces gamma shifts

I can convert these files with QuickTime Player fine. But using the Compressor 3.5 preset for Apple Prores 422HQ Introduces random gamma shifts in the file - when viewed with QuickTime Player or FCP.

Why are you transcoding them in the first place? Doesn't FCP work with H.264 natively?!

Canon 7D footage H.264 through Compressor First????

I'm using a Canon 7D and wondering if I should take that original footage into Compressor and add the ProRes422 LT codec to it first. If so, I would assume I would then take that compressed file into FCP to be edited. This is totally backward from what I've been doing.
The other option I'm thinking is this. Bring in the original 7D footage and as soon as I start a new sequence with that footage go into the SEQUENCE SETTINGS and on the main GENERAL TAB go to the QUICKTIME VIDEO SETTINGS and change that to ProRes422 LT and also go to the RENDER CONTROL TAB and change that to ProRes.
I am confused as to what to do. I will be building a DVD with multiple chapters (sequences) in iDVD after FCP editing. Now, if I do the above, would I need to send the edited file to compressor or just go straight to Quicktime Movie and then drop that file in iDVD.
Please excuse me. I am a TOTAL NEWB and really do not understand the whole ProRes thing or the proper steps I should take to get things done. Also, I am using a green screen and when everything is done these files are huge. I have sometimes been experiencing some loss in chromakeying quality, which is not acceptable at all since these videos will be for sale and not just for personal use.

HI there,
You absolutely must convert the native canon 7D (H.264) files into prores before you start editing in FCP. dont do it the way you are thinking.
H.264 is a delivery codec not an editing codec, and FCP will have troubles with it.
so your workflow should be
1. copy full contents of card onto a drive (easy to create a dmg).
2. use compressor (or EOS plugin or others) to transcode to Pro res (LT is fine)
3. edit in a sequence that matches your source settings.
4. export quicktime (use current settings) self contained
5. input these to compressor to create your dvd files
6. build dvd (use dvd studio pro - its more flexible)
There are lots of other little tips and trickes that will aid a smooth workflow but thats the basics, if you do a search here or look up Shane Ross "tapeless workflow" you will get some deeper understanding of what is required.
cheers
Andy
Andy

Free Workflow Package/Tutorial etc. For Users Of Canon 5D And 7D

We often get queries about workflows about getting Canon 5D video into FCP.
I haven't studied it but this tutorial and workflow package from +idustrial revolution+ may be useful.
http://www.idustrialrevolution.com/component/sobi2/?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid =2&sobi2Id=22

I do documentaries...broadcast ones. And no network has cleared DSLRs for use as cameras. In fact, many actually but them on their DO NOT USE list, along with HDV cameras.
Anyway, I have a tutorial that covers pretty much every tapeless format. Going from when you first put the card from the camera into the computer. Backup, import...labelling. And it mentions Canon DSLR.
Tapeless Workflow for FCP 7 Tutorial
Shane

Step by step Apple ProRes 422 PROXY workflow, please.

Anyone could help me find a complete video or not, "Step by step Apple ProRes 422 PROXY workflow", please. I can´t find any.
I´ve never used Apple ProRes 422 PROXY and I´ve all the doubts on how to use it, final quality, etc, etc.
My original files are from a Canon 5DMII (H.264) and I usually transcode to Apple ProRes HQ with the EOS1-plug-in. The renderings are too long...during my editing ,-( Too long and my machine stops with the heat after several hours.
(I´ve my settings ok, between my files and my project, etc).
Is Apple ProRes 422 PROXY, a possible solution, at least during the editing process? Good quality and less time rendering?
What about final output? Can I have 1080p/24 pristine as I´ve now?
I´m editing with a MacBook Pro 15"/2.33 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo/4GB SDRAM.
Thanks very very much. I´m a bit desperate 8~S

ProRes flavours:
"The Apple ProRes format comes in five versions: Apple ProRes 4444, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (LT), and Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)."
from http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflows/in dex.html#chapter=10%26section=2
Tom, you mean, Apple ProRes 422 or Apple ProRes 422 (LT).
Why? Because this specs?
(according to Apple)
"Apple ProRes 422
The Apple ProRes 422 codec provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 145 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
The Apple ProRes 422 (LT) codec provides the following:
Roughly 70 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (thus, smaller file sizes than Apple ProRes 422)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)"
Are enough (Mbps, colorspace, etc) to handle with files from 5DMII (1080p/24 my settings) without a big waste of resources; space, time, etc? In this the point to consider?
"If you use Proxy for ingest you'll have to batch ingest to higher resolution for output." - Tom.
I´m sorry but I know nothing about the use of Proxy files, so I don´t understand what you mean. That´s why I asked for an explanation step by step... ,-(
Additional question: is it possible (at all) to change the projects I´ve (several); all with Apple ProRes HQ to another ProRes version? Will I loose what? Effects, filters, renderings?
Thx.

Canon 5D Mark II data rate drop

Trying to work in the original source format H.264 with clips from Canon 5D Mark II in FCP to show off the excellent resolution of the cam's video format.
Everything looks great in the exported self-contained QT movie (aka FCP Movie) of video clips only--data rate nice and high at 42.xx mbits/sec. Then I add text clips, and the data rate (and resulting footage quality) plummets to 20.xx mbits/sec or lower depending upon how much text I've added and whether the text overlays footage clips.
Sequences where I've not added any text retain the original data rate of the source files (42.xx when played back in QT) and look fantastic. But those with text get as blocky as the data rate drop involved.
Any idea why FCP is doing this to these Canon 5D H.264 sequences when text is added??
Mary Lynn

Yes, thank you both for your responses. Quite familiar with ProRes conversion workflows and H.264 delivery, etc.
What we are trying to do is show clients precisely what the footage looks like right out of the Canon 5D, which is pretty fantastic. FCP will actually create a sequence that matches the 40 mbits/sec long GOP H.264 right out of the digital SLR cam, and will maintain the data rate and great quality in exported self-contained QT movies consisting of hard cuts between multiple clips...that is until text is added.
But it looks like for now we'll just have to transcode and show clients that instead. (Although hopefully future versions of FCP will allow us to edit Canon's 5D variant of H.264 natively!?)
Thank you again for your responses!
ML

Canon EOS MOVIE Plugin-E1 for Final Cut Pro Now Available...

There's been so much talk about the 5D, 7D, 550D on this board that I'm going to point to the EOS MOVIE Plugin-E1 for Final Cut Pro. This is supposed to speed to transcode of Canon Camera H.264 to FCP-friendly formats and let you add more metadata along the way.
Enjoy!
Canon webpage. Under Drivers & Downloads. Once you select your OS, "Mac OS X", the download should appear near the top of the "Software" list.
Note: (from Quickstart Guide)
This plug-in software allows you to convert MOV movies shot with an EOS Digital camera into ProRes files at high speed in the (Log & Transfer) window of Apple's Final Cut Pro.
FWIW: The quick start guide says cameras involved are 7D, 5D, 1D, no mention of 550D. Sort of odd.

For users in North America to make the Canon EOS REBEL T2i work (550D for Europe):
1. Install the new Canon EOS MOVIE Plugin-E1 for Final Cut Pro (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...nloadDetailAct)
2. Go to Library/Application Support/ProApps/MIO/RAD/Plugins/CanonE1.RADPLug/Contents/Resources/
2. Open up cameras.plist
3. After the 7D info add the following lines of code (keeping to the coding structure):
<key>T2i</key>
<array>
<string>Canon EOS REBEL T2i</string>
</array>
4. Save the text file. Close it. Everything should work now.
Cheerz.

H.264 and prores proxy question

I've read through a ton of posts about proxy and h.264 workflows but didn't find any that answers my specific question.
My raw video from my camera is mp4 (h.264). I understand that h.264 is not good to edit with, so I have a few options. I use a macbook pro for editing so I have been toying around with prores proxy for editing and it makes a difference on RT playback and rendering while editing, so that's good. When I get ready to output my movie after editing, I relink my project back to the original h.264 source files and that seems to work fine.
I'm wondering if that's not the right workflow though. Should I transcode the h.264 into prores HQ or LT and then ALSO to proxy, edit with proxy and then relink my project back to the HQ or LT files to output? Or is linking back to my source h.264 files and outputing the right way to go?
Since the original files must be in the best possible quality that I'm going to get (since they're my original clips), I assume that relinking to them right before output is the way to go but I really don't know much about codecs to know if I'm missing something.
Thanks in advance for the advice.

Thanks for your response. I'm shooting with a Sanyo FH1, mostly in 1080p, but I've scaled back to 720 since 1080 was overkill for what I'm doing to save some space.
The thing I don't quite understand yet is the issue with pointing my project back to the source files after all the editing is finished with prores proxy and just before output. That way, FCP would only have to uncompress the source files to render for final output only one time (besides the initial transcoding), albeit, probably longer than it would be for prores. I'm sold on proxy because it was so much faster to edit with than h.264 and I didn't have to keep any video files after I was finished except my source files....trying to budget hard drive space. I transcoded one file a while back to prores but the file size was more than I wanted to deal with since I only edit on my macbook pro so I didn't try to edit with it. Like you said, maybe just converting to prores and dealing with the space juggling would be the best way to go, or try prores LT to see how the quality is.
Does converting from h.264 to prores buy me any quality or a better final result, or just a cleaner workflow? Don't misread my questions, I'm not arguing, just trying to understand from you guys that know a lot more about this than I do. Making my living as a developer, it's just ingrained in me to understand this one
Message was edited by: kenmoberg (updated macos version)

Canon 7D footage, EXIF/metadata

Doing a test project in PP6 (currently a FCP7 user) and want to make sure there are no special tricks to importing Canon DSLR footage, other than just importing the H.264 files. I'm used to keeping the entire DCIM folder structure in FCP for transcoding to ProRes, want to make sure I don't need the other files on the card (amd yes, I am backing them all up!)
Also, is there any way to bring in the EXIF data (metadata) along with the clips? I assume this would involve the .THM files on the card; is there a different import method for merging that info with the clips? Would Prelude or Bridge help here?
TIA,
John K.
MPro 2.66 Quad, 10.6, 12GB ram, Creative Cloud CS6

Just FYI to anyone else who comes to this thread:
If you drag in DSLR clips directly from the card WITHOUT converting/transcoding they will NOT have timecode. At least that's my experience with the Canon 7D H.264 files. The timecode is contained in the .THM files and if you don't convert using those then each clip's timecode will start at 0.
It may not matter to you if you're doing a quick edit in PPro, but if you export out to other programs like FCP 7 and switch to transcoded versions (ProRes) the clips will not replace properly because the timecode will be completely off. The solution is to always transcode ahead of time with your utility of choice.
HTH,
JVK

Canon 7D H.264 workflow

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