Color management issue from Photoshop Acrobat

I'm having an issue that I believe has been isolated to Acrobat X related to Color Management, but was referred to this Photoshop forum because more experts in color management tend to read here. My thread in the Acrobat forum with several updates on tests is here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4646650#4646650
The short version is that any RGB image I create in any app (including Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, a non-Adobe app with Word, and Acrobat's own PDF from Screen Capture feature) displays in both Acrobat X and Adobe Reader with dull colors, very similar (if not identical) to how an RGB file with full intensity colors (i.e. R255 or G255) looks when converted to CMYK.
I've tried numerous settings in the Color Management system, and have Synchronized my Color Settings via Bridge across all Adobe CS6 apps. I've tried synchronizing to both the default North American General Purpose 2, and the (sometimes suggested) Monitor Color, using a calibrated profile for my Dell display from OS X's built-in tool. Have also tried various settings of Preserving Embedded Profiles, ignoring them, Assigning a new Color Profile to a document, turning off color management completely, etc. No change in result.
I have a multi-monitor setup (3 external Dell displays connected to a Macbook Pro, 2 of them via USB video devices), but I've also tried making each display (including the laptop's built-in display) my Primary monitor and can see the color shift on each one, so it doesn't appear to be a calibration issue.
This issue is on my Mac at the office. I have a similar setup at home (albeit a MacPro 1,1 vs. a laptop) but with the same Dell monitors and CS6 software installation, and I can take the same document (whether it's InDesign, Illustrator, or Photoshop), make a PDF of it, and it displays with 100% accurate colors when viewed in Acrobat X.
In addition to the tests mentioned in my original thread, I've also tried uninstalling and reinstalling both Acrobat X and Adobe Reader.
I believe the issue is related to Acrobat, as I can repeat the issue with no other apps than Acrobat in the workflow: if I display a full-intensity RGB image on screen, then use Acrobat X to create a PDF from Screen Capture, the resulting PDF immediately shifts to the dull colors.
Have also thoroughly checked through Acrobat's preferences, as it seems almost as if there's a setting somewhere along the lines of "View all PDFs in CMYK color gamut", but no such setting exists. I did a complete uninstall of Acrobat X as well, which I imagine would also dump its Preferences, so it would be a clean reinstall.
Another interesting note: Apple's Preview app seems to display the PDF with accurate RGB colors, so I know the PDF actually has the correct color definitions intact. But the same PDF opened in Acrobat X or Reader side-by-side displays the dull colors.
Any thoughts?
-R

i wasn't able to follow your lengthy post, and the color management chain is too complicated (for me) to address here other to say Acrobat reads tagged elements and converts their colors to Monitor RGB (so you must have stripped the profiles in the PDF, and the Acrobat CMS is applying or passing through the wrong profile)
further, if you don't want to rely on profiles, your safest bet (for screen viewing) is to CONVERT everything to sRGB (but i would still include the profile in case someone wants to display or print the document 'accurately'
Here is a look at a several critical color setting in Export to Acrobat that control: Downsampling, Compression, Color Conversions, Destination, and Tagging (click on image for blowup):
PS:
these panels were grabbed from an InDesign Export PDF process, but Photoshop should have similar options somewhere

Similar Messages

Color managed printing from Photoshop CC 2014

It appears color managed printing has either changed significantly or is no longer possible with Photoshop CC 2014. We're able to turn off color management with both Photoshop CS6 and CC when printing to Canon iPFx400 series printers, but not with CC 2014. Has anyone encountered this issues and if so hopefully discovered a work around?

Im using OSX Mavericks. Photoshop CC 2014 was defaulting to Color Handing: Printer Manges Color in the print Dialog box. I was not use to this and didn't notice. Switching to photoshop manages colors grays out color matching in the printer settings. Im still not sure what has changed as all my profiles are way off with Photoshop CC 2014.

Color management - going from 3ds Max to Photoshop

I'm trying to develop a workflow for bringing renders from 3ds Max into Photoshop, and having them look the same in both programs. The issue is that Max isn't color managed, so things can shift.
There's a good article on the subject here:
http://www.artstorm.net/journal/2009/07/color-management-wide-gamut-dell-2408/
So, to repeat what Johan is describing in the article, here's a test I've been doing:
- Put my dell U2410 monitor in Standard mode (which is wide gamut)
- Set the monitor profile to Dell U2410 D6500 (the monitor isn't calibrated yet; I've just been using this profile for the tests)
- Create a scene in Max, and tweak the render so that the colors look correct to me in this non-managed setup
- Save the image
- Open the image in Photoshop (with working space of sRGBIEC1966-2.1), which of course gives the "missing profile" message
- Now, if I'm understanding Johan correctly, if I assign that Dell profile, the image should look identical in Photoshop to what I saw in Max (because I'm assigning the profile that was in effect at the time of creation). And if I assign the Working RGB (sRGB...), I should expect to see the brighter colors become desaturated, due to the smaller gamut.
So...what's the problem? Well, sometimes I get those exact results consistently...assign the Dell profile and it looks corrrect; assign the working sRGB and it's desaturated. But other times, for no apparent reason, I'll get different results: Assign the Dell profile and it's OVERsaturated; assign the working sRGB and it looks correct (i.e., exactly as it does in Max). Things have been in that weird state for the past few hours...I keep getting those same wierd results...earlier today I would consistantly get the results as predicted by the article. Yesterday it was the same thing...it shifted back and forth a few times between working and not working...nothing changed as far as I can tell.
Any ideas what's going on?

I think this is overcomplicating it, and with a quite a few stumbling blocks on the way.
To name one: using the monitor profile in the document accomplishes only one thing - turning display color management off in Photoshop, thus reducing it to the same non-color managed state as 3ds Max. Since the two profiles are the same, no change happens, and you just get what's known as a null transform. IOW you gain nothing and lose a lot.
The two will be consistent - and both wrong. That's why this is never recommended.
Now this is important, so pay attention: If you do this with the Dell in native wide gamut mode, you will be scr*wing up your files beyond recognition. Take that file into a properly color managed scenario, and it will be miles off.
I think the only workable approach in this case, since you have to use software that isn't color managed, is to put the monitor in sRGB mode. There's just no way you can work with a wide gamut display in this scenario and keep your sanity. Or, as I suggested in an earlier post, sell it and get a standard display.
For this to work, you need an sRGB-type monitor profile. That can be straight up sRGB for "close enough", or a calibrator-produced profile made with the unit in sRGB mode. That would be better for Photoshop, for 3ds Max it doesn't make any difference because it'll just ignore the profile anyway.
EDIT: I should add, just in case it's still unclear, that the reason sRGB "works" in a non-color managed setting while other profiles and color spaces don't, is simply because that's the way an average monitor displays. The Dell U2410 is not an average monitor. If we all had U2410s, and I mean everybody, then Adobe RGB would have been the consensus standard. But we don't and it's not. So you have to play by the majority rule.

I want to activate Color Management Suite from purchase via internet photoshop, illustrator and indesign, how? thank you for your reply

I want to activate Color Management Suite from purchase via internet photoshop, illustrator and indesign, how? thank you for your reply

hello, I already Bridge CS6 installed but can not be accessed by the> parameters color edition menu. The message said that eereur lme Suite Color Management is not enabled. What should I do?
De : gener7 <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Répondre à : "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date : mardi 9 septembre 2014 14:20
À : jp <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Objet : I want to activate Color Management Suite from purchase via internet photoshop, illustrator and indesign, how? thank you for your reply
Download and install Bridge CC, then in the Bridge Edit menu > Color Settings choose the color settings you want to synchronize your CC apps to.
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Different Colors when printing from Photoshop and InDesign CS3

Different Colors when printing from Photoshop and InDesign CS3
I have the following problem:
When printing from Photoshop or InDesign to a PostScript printer, Adobe recommends to let Photoshop handle the colors (I use the German version, so I don't know the exact term used, it changes slightly in all CS3 apps anyway).
The manufacturer however told me to let the PostScript printer handle the colors.
When I chose this option in Ps's print dialog and then choose ISO Coated as the printer pfofile, the results are fine.
But when I place the exact same image in an InDesign file and print from InDesign or export to PDF and print via Acrobat, again using "Printer handles colors", the results are the exact same as if I had used Ps and chosen to let Ps handle the colors (way too saturated and a bit too red).
·Photoshop CS3
·InDesign CS3
·Test image is a TIFF in CMYK Fogra 27 Coated (which is also the working color space in Ps and ID.
·Printer: Xerox Docucolor 3535
·Printer profile: ISO Coated
How can I make sure the printer handles the colors in other CS3 apps than Ps? I tried it with ID's print dialog (translated from the German version: Color Management > Options > Color Handling: PostScript-printer decides colors).
Thanks a lot!

RE: "You don't indicate what Xerox printers you have"
In my first post I named it, is that the information you need?
Docucolor 3535 using Splash 3535
That's interesting, so I have to find a way to turn off the printer's Color Management function? I mailed them, hope they can tell me how to do it easily. They usually just tell me to not use any profiles and so on, but that's the general rule in this area, I'm really tired of hearing it. Everybody seems to think profiles and LAB mode are nuclear science and I should stay away from it.
Anyway, the test image I'm using is a simple photograph (size A3, 300dpi), so no transparencies at all. I'm placing this image into an equally large ID file and print it from ID, then export it to PDF-X/3 and print it from Acrobat. Hope that helps.

Color Management issues with Illustrator

Can someone help me figure out the color management issues I'm getting when printing on an Epson 3880 from Illustrator?
The image comes out severely red as evident on the face. I'm not getting the same problem when printing from Photoshop, even though I set same paper profile in printing dialog box.
I attached two printed picture (one from Photoshop CC, and one from Illustrator CC) that I took with my iphone so that you can see the printed result. Even when I try to simulate same thing using illustrator soft proofing process, the soft proof does not show me anything close to how it gets printed out. And I tried all device simulations to see if any would match it. Im using CMYK SWOP v2 for Color space in both programs.

Dougfly,
Only an hour wasted? Lucky you. Color is an incredibly complex subject. First, forget matching anything to the small LCD on the back of your camera. That's there as a basic guide and is affected by the internal jpg algorithm of your camera.
2nd, you're not really takeing a color photo with your digital camera, but three separate B&W images in a mosaic pattern, exposed thru separate red, green and blue filters. Actual color doesn't happen until that matrix is demosaiced in either your raw converter, or the in-camera processor (which relies heavily on camera settings, saturation, contrast, mode, etc.)
Having said the above, you can still get very good, predictable results in your workflow. I have a few color management articles on my website that you might find very helpful. Check out the Introduction to Color Management and Monitor and Printer Profiling. In my opinion, a monitor calibration device is the minimum entry fee if you want decent color.
http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php
Lou

Color shift (color management) issues in Mavericks

Noticed color management lacking for Safari and Dock icons just after Maverick update, but was unable to check it with recalibration. Today X-Rite issued an update for i1 Display PRO and i was able to recalibrate my display, but the problem unsurprisingly wasn't in the display profile.
Bellow are two screenshots of Safari vs. Chrome and FF vs. Chrome respectively.
Color difference is seen with the naked eye, but gray and blue fields' values are also annotated (Safari is on the left, Chrome is on the right).
These are FF (on the left) and Chrome (on the right) with no color difference, both browsers are color-managed.

Issues here too: 2013 Mac Pro, latest Mavericks/browser versions (OS X 10.9.4), and Dell UP2414Q display (known for good color—not to mention the only retina display money can buy).
Safari seems fine: web sites with no color profiles in the images look very much as I am used to from OS X Lion and Windows on other machines (some variation from screen to screen is just life). CSS colors match image colors when they should.
Firefox is ultra-saturated: web sites the look fine in Firefox--and identical to Safari--under OS X Lion (on a different Mac/display anyway) but on the new Mavericks system, colors are eye-burningly saturated! That's CSS and images alike (without color profiles). CSS and image colors still match—but both are WAY oversaturated.
Note: images dragged from Safari and Firefox to my desktop both look fine when opened in Quick Look or Preview. Both (again, images without profiles) look super-saturated like Firefox when opened in Photoshop CC—despite Photoshop having the same settings I'm used to using (color management Off for RGB, working space set to Monitor) on my old Mac with PS CS6 under Lion. Yet the color values in PS CC do register as correct despite looking so bad (same goes when opening my own RGB source PSDs that generated the web sites to begin with).
Shouldn't Safari and Firefox out of the box look alike, since they do in earlier OS versions? (Even if some workaround is found, "out of the box" a new Mac with default Firefox installation now looks terrible.)
Separate but complicating issues, in case it helps to diagnose this:
a) The Dell display's default calibration looks quite good to me; but if I run Apple's visual calibration steps which I would normally do on a new Mac, everything gets very dark. (So I went back to the default calibration, which is supplied by Apple and called "Dell UP2414Q"; Apple clearly supports this display specifically, since I never installed any Dell software.)
b) When I take an OS X screenshot of Safari, despite it looking "right" everywhere (Preview and Photoshop CC alike), values are way off. (Regardless of whether I strip the color profile or not when importing the screenshot into Photoshop CC.) When I take a screenshot off Firefox, the screenshot looks "right" (no longer oversaturated!) in Preview and Quicklook. When imported into Photoshop CC, Firefox screenshots behave just like drag-saved images from Firefox: they appear super-saturated just like in the browser, BUT the color values at least register correctly.
c) No setting I can find for Photoshop CC will make exported images look right (and match CSS colors) in ANY browser unless I accept them being super-saturated while I work on them (which of course is untenable). I'll deal with that separately: I've abandoned the new Mac Pro for Photoshop work and gone back to my old Mac (and PS CS6)--but this I assume to be Adobe's fault. I mention it only in case it's some kind of clue.
For what it's worth, here's my interpretation: Firefox and Photoshop are using the full gamut of the display, while Safari is not—and Safari looks GOOD not using the full gamut. (And at least with this Dell display, it looks "correct" that way.) Pure primary red #FF0000 (images and CSS alike) which appears normal to me in Safari and Preview and Quicklook turns to eye-burning neon red in Firefox and Photoshop (with management Off and working space set to Monitor). It's kind of amazing that the display can show a red even more brilliant than I have ever seen on a computer before, BUT it doesn't help me design web sites for the rest of the world who has a more ordinary gamut.
Maybe this is just a long-standing Firefox bug, revealed to me now that I have a large-gamut display? (But that wouldn't explain why other people have seen colors MORE saturated in Safari then Firefox.)

Color Management Module In Photoshop

Question: A color management module is the software that defines the mathematical manipulations by which color conversions are made?

Thanks for your quick reply.
From: ronzie99 <[email protected]>
To: IronEyesWally <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 1:09 PM
Subject: Color Management Module In Photoshop
Re: Color Management Module In Photoshop created by ronzie99 in Photoshop Elements - View the full discussion
There are different types of icc\icm profiles used in color management.
First is the color workspace. PSE is by default set to create files in the color space embedded in the image opened and if not then the default color space of your choosing. The type of color space describes the gamut limitations of that color space.
Next are device specific color profiles. These are the display and printer profiles but can also exist for input devices. These profiles serve as tables to fit the measured characteristicsof the device to the color space requireed. For output devices there are Rendering Intents that can be chosen to determine how the limitations of a device can be best interpolated to fit the color space of an image into the limitations of the device for best appearance.
A practical way to think of a display to output workflow think of the color space situated between the displayed image and the output device with the color space in the middle defining limitations as a standard. The devices profiles are then measured against the standard color profile to create corrections or translation table so they react appropropriately to present the image on the display for the output device target profile in an attempt to get a 'what you see is what you get' envirionment for the specific devices used.
You need to create via calibration either by you (better) or insttall from the manufacturer a profile for the display. This matches your display device to the 'standard' profile. If you go to print then you'll need to install a printer profile (which varies by ink and paper type) either OEM or from paper suppliers or created by a measuring device you can purchase if you go 'rogue' regrding non-OEM inks and papers.
PSE does not have a soft-proof mode built in like Photoshop. It does have a setup, though, where it will let you assign every time you print an output profile that you select if you want PSE to directly manage the printer for tonality and color, in which case in the printer driver itself you disable color management only leaving the driver to descrive the image quality and surface type of the paer chosen and choosing none or leaving icm unchecked in the printer driver. The profile is selected in the PSE printer driver under advanced.
Soft proof mode is where the display translation is further manipulated to approximate the printer output. This can happen because you have calibrated your monitor to a standard and a printer tothat same standard. I have an add-on for PSE 10 called Elements + that in addition to lots of filters and effects adds some soft-proofing capability and curve color level adjustments to PSE. http://www.simplephotoshop.com/elementsplus/index.htm
In practical terms that is the function of color management.
BTW: The defacto color space for the Internet web browsers is sRGB. Use this when correcting color for web distribution.
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Need color management settings for photoshop version 8.0

I need to reset the color management settings for photoshop 8.0. Can someone let me know what are the correct defaults?

Probably the most commonly used is "North American Prepress 2" but which you choose depends entirely on the kind of work you are currently doing.

Printing Issue: Colors print fine from Photoshop but washed out in Illustrator

I am having trouble printing from Illustrator. The same image...whether cut and pasted, opened in, or using the swatch created....prints differently in Photoshop and Illustrator. I need to use this specific color (for branding purposes) and it prints fine in Photoshop but washed out and grey-ish in illustrator.
I've made sure the color settings are the same (in bridge) and made sure all the print settings are the same. It is the same color on the screen, and in detail, but the print output is clearly different. Any help please??

If I print from Acrobat, everything is washed out and greyed - both the PDF from Illustrator and the PDF saved from Photoshop.
I tried letting the printer decide and I tried set to illustrator - both washed out and greyed.
Here are my settings in illustrator:

Color Management Issues Solved in LR 1.1?

Long tempted to switch from Elements 5.0 to LR (or to integrate the two), I have held off because I've read on this forum dozens, probably hundreds, of complaints about LR 1.0 and color management. Some of these questions were clearly from ignorance, I know (such as not understanding the difference between the color space used by monitors and that used by printers). But many other were from sophisticated users all of whom began their comments or questions with "Works perfectly in Photoshop, but in LR ..." See, for example, http://adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bc41850/39 , which describes difficulty in getting LR to produce acceptable prints. To my mind, LR 1.0 had color management problems even if the highest end users managed to work around them. I don't want to buy into problems, not being a sophisticated user yet myself. So here is my queston: Does LR 1.1 solve these problems? That is, does LR 1.1 work as easily, or almost as easily, as Photoshop (say with the HP b9180, which has a PS plugin)? Thanks in advance.

The problem is that lightroom is somehow throwing the default profile that is set in colorsync into the mix. Which is something that Photoshop is not doing. So any printer profiles built by printing a target with PS is not going to be accurate when printed through Lightroom unless the default profile for you printer is Generic RGB Profile or something close.
Here is what I have posted elsewhere about my discovery of this issue.
I discovered something today that just might be the answer to the color printing problems from Lightroom.
First of all, all prints from PS and Lightroom was done with the same color management workflow with the profiles set in the application and color management turned off in the printer driver. This was to a Canon iPF9000.
Started when I tried to print from a new MacPro with Lightroom. Colors were not right.
Went to the G5 and printed from lightroom same file same settings same profile, color was correct.
Printed same file same setting same profile from PS on the MacPro. Color was correct.
So started printing and saving as PDF from the print dialog. Open the PDF files in Acrobat and checking embedded profile with Pitstop.
Here are the results.
Lightroom on Macpro: iPF9000 Paper profile. This was much darker with way to much yellow.
Photoshop of Macpro: Generic RGB
Lightroom on G5: sRGB v1.20 (Canon)
I had uninstall the sRGB v1.20 (Canon) profile from the colorsync folder on the MacPro. Added sRGB v1.20 (Canon) back in and guess what. sRGB v1.20 (Canon) in the PDF now generated from Lightroom. Print to the printer from Lightroom on the MacPro and it now printed correct.
Now got to thinking were does Lightroom get this (sRGB v1.20 (Canon) profile from. So checked in the Colorsync utility to see what the default profile for the iPF9000 is and sure enough it was sRGB v1.20 (Canon). Ok so what happens if I change the default profile in the Colorsync utility to Adobe RGB. Now guess what the Lightroom generated PDF now shows Adobe RGB as the embedded profile.
PS printed to PDF showed Generic RGB profile no matter what I set as the default profile in the Colorsync Utility.
Clearly Lightroom behaves differently when printing when a different default profile is selected for a printer. On Windows this could be the same as one can set in the printer properties (at least for the iPF9000) the default profile to automatic or set a different default profile manually.
This raises an interesting question as to what is really going on with print files set to a printer. Especially printers with much larger gamuts than sRGB.
Could this be the source of the strange Lightroom printing problems?
I do know when I have tried to make a profile from a printed target in LR I could not get accurate color. But the profile generated for a target printed in PS works fine in LR.

Color management issues with Flash CS3, please help?

Hello everyone.
I am having issues with color from a Jpeg image produced in Photoshop CS4
after importing onto the stage in Flash CS3. The color in Flash changes the image to a lighter less saturated state. Yuk.
Here is a link to a screen capture to show you what's happening (for a bigger view):
http://www.rudytorres.com/color/weirdcolor.png
As you can see the front image is the Photoshop image showing the sRGB color profile embedded but Flash (behind) changes that color.
This client is quite picky and she will notice this difference.
If any one can help, please.
- Rudy
P.S. It's a button somewhere, Right?

Dougfly,
Only an hour wasted? Lucky you. Color is an incredibly complex subject. First, forget matching anything to the small LCD on the back of your camera. That's there as a basic guide and is affected by the internal jpg algorithm of your camera.
2nd, you're not really takeing a color photo with your digital camera, but three separate B&W images in a mosaic pattern, exposed thru separate red, green and blue filters. Actual color doesn't happen until that matrix is demosaiced in either your raw converter, or the in-camera processor (which relies heavily on camera settings, saturation, contrast, mode, etc.)
Having said the above, you can still get very good, predictable results in your workflow. I have a few color management articles on my website that you might find very helpful. Check out the Introduction to Color Management and Monitor and Printer Profiling. In my opinion, a monitor calibration device is the minimum entry fee if you want decent color.
http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php
Lou

Color Managed Printing from LR 1.3.1 Inverse of Proper PS CS3 10.0.1 Behavior

Please excuse the length and detail of this post - I'm just trying to be very clear...
Also, it would be helpful if anyone having definitive information about this topic could please email me directly in addition to replying to this forum topic, in order that I might know a response is available sooner (I am new to this forum, and may not check it regularly). My direct email address is [email protected].
Bottom Line: Color managed printing using my own custom-generated profiles from LR 1.3.1 to my Epson 7600 (on Intel-based Mac OS X 10.5.2, but saw the same behavior with 10.5.1) using the current Epson 7600 Intel/10.5x-compatible driver (3.09) is broken, and appears to be doing the exact opposite (inverse) of what I would expect and what PS CS3 does properly.
I am color management experienced, and have been using my custom-generated EPSON 7600 profiles with reliable soft proofing and printing success in PS (both CS2 and now CS3) for some time now. I know how the EPSON printer driver should be set relative to PS/LR print settings to indicate desired function. Images exported from LR to PS and printed from PS using "Photoshop Manages Color" and proper printer driver settings ("No Color Adjustment") print perfectly, so it isn't the Intel-based Mac, the OS, the driver, the profile, or me -- it is LR behaving badly.
The specific behavior is that printing from LR using "Managed by Printer" with the EPSON driver's Color Management setting set properly to "Colorsync" prints a reasonable-looking print, about what you would expect for canned profiles from the manufacturer, and in fact identical to the results obtained printing the same image from PS using "Printer Manages Color". So far so good. Switching to my specific custom profiles in LR and printing with the driver's CM setting set properly to "No Color Adjustment" yields results that are clearly whacked, for both LR settings of "Perceptual" and "Relative CM". Just for completeness and out of curiosity, I tried printing from LR using the same profile (once for "Perceptual" and once more for "Relative CM") with the EPSON driver's CM setting set IMPROPERLY to "Colorsync", and the results were much more in line with what you would expect - I would almost say it was "correct" output. This is why I used the phrase "inverse of proper behavior" in the subject line of this topic. Going one step further, trying this same set of improper settings in PS (PS print settings set to "Photoshop Manages Color" with either Perceptual or Rel CM selected, but using "Colorsync" rather than "No Color Adjustment" in the Color Management pane of the EPSON printer driver) yields whacked results as you would expect that look identical to the whacked results obtained from LR using "proper" settings.
I said above that the improper settings from LR yielded results that I would almost say were correct. "Almost" because the benchmark results rendered by PS using proper settings are slightly different - both "better" and closer to each other - than those rendered by LR using the improper settings. The diffs between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from LR using improper settings showed more marked differences in tone/contrast/saturation than the diffs observed between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from PS using proper settings - the image itself was in-gamut enough that diffs between Perceptual and Rel CM in the proper PS prints were quite subtle. Even though the improper LR prints were slightly inferior to the proper PS prints, the improper LR prints were still within tolerances of what you might expect, and still better (in terms of color matching) than the "Managed by Printer" print from LR. At first guess, I would attribute this (the improper LR prints being inferior to the proper PS prints) to the CMM being used by LR being different from (inferior to) the CMM I have selected for use in PS (that being "Adobe (ACE)"). I can live with the LR CMM being slightly different from that use

(Here's the 2nd half of my post...)
I said above that the improper settings from LR yielded results that I would almost say were correct. "Almost" because the benchmark results rendered by PS using proper settings are slightly different - both "better" and closer to each other - than those rendered by LR using the improper settings. The diffs between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from LR using improper settings showed more marked differences in tone/contrast/saturation than the diffs observed between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from PS using proper settings - the image itself was in-gamut enough that diffs between Perceptual and Rel CM in the proper PS prints were quite subtle. Even though the improper LR prints were slightly inferior to the proper PS prints, the improper LR prints were still within tolerances of what you might expect, and still better (in terms of color matching) than the "Managed by Printer" print from LR. At first guess, I would attribute this (the improper LR prints being inferior to the proper PS prints) to the CMM being used by LR being different from (inferior to) the CMM I have selected for use in PS (that being "Adobe (ACE)"). I can live with the LR CMM being slightly different from that used in PS - that is not the issue here. What is at issue is trying to determine why LR is clearly behaving differently than PS in this well-understood area of functionality, all other variables being the same. (And, incidentally, why am I not seeing other posts raising these same questions?)
My "workaround" is to use "Managed by Printer" for printing rough prints from LR and to do all other printing from PS, especially given the noted diffs in CMM performance between LR and PS and the fact that printing from PS also supports using Photokit Sharpener for high-quality prints. Still it would be nice to understand why this is happening in LR and to be able to print "decent" prints directly from LR when it seemed appropriate.
Any insights or suggestions will be very much appreciated. Please remember to reply to my direct email address ([email protected]) in addition to your public reply to this forum.
Thank you!
/eddie

Color management issue

I'm scanning some old 35mm slides on an old iBook G3. I must use this because my scanner is no longer supported by the newer versions of OS10. The setup works just fine; just the other day I rescanned something I originally did almost 8 years ago and you can't tell the difference visually between the two versions. However, I'm making a book using these scanned illustrations in a newer iMac using OS10.6. I'm laying the book out using InDesign and Photoshop CS3. The problem is that when I view the scanned images in Photoshop--which look great on the old iBook--on the new iMac, all sport a noticeable yellowish cast with also a tad of red. I've been tearing my hair out trying to troubleshoot where the problem is. Not only do the images look much warmer on the iMac, but the prints from this computer do also. Under "color spaces" I have set both computer working spaces to Adobe RGB(1998) and under "color management policies," both computers are set at "preserve embedded profiles." I have come to a dead halt and would appreciate some advice as to steps I might take to resolve this frustrating issue. By the way, both monitors have been calibrated numerous times; as I say, the prints come out just as different as do the images on the monitors. Thanks for any help.

10.6 was the first version to properly display untagged sRGB. The print thing, I don't know, that's a WTF.

LR3 color management issues

Alright, so I'm having some trouble with color spaces and am at the point I'm seeing red and just want to smash my computer. I feel like I understand the basics of color management but for some reason I can't seem to get things to behave. I know certain programs are color managed and can handle different color spaces, and some are not. I will also note that my monitor has been calibrated using a Spyder3Pro.
I like working with sRGB simply because I get the same result on most places on the internet (I know I'm losing gamut but I really don't print too much so it's not a big deal). So I know that LR operates in ProPhoto RGB, the biggest of the main RGB color spaces (sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto RGB) and as such shows photos with far more color than can be represented by sRGB. However, whenever I export a photo from LR (be it to JPEG in any of the color spaces, or to edit in PS CS5), the colors are always far more muted than what I see in LR. I have checked the settings in CS5 and even opened the RAW file (with the .xmp editing info) directly in CS5 in ProPhotoRGB and the colors aren't even close to what I see in LR. Additionally I used LR to export the file to JPEG in sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto RGB, and when those three files are opened in Photoshop, they look virtually identical. There are minute changes in the histogram between the three files, but they all look the same. However, they appear different when viewed in my browser (Firefox), even though I have set it to color manage. I did notice that there was no color space listed when I looked at the file properties in the Details tab, but the color profile is clearly being embedded as PS asks me if I want to view the image in the working space or the embedded color space of the image. What is going on here?
Screenshot of the same file in LR and PS, being opened in PS using the external editing feature of LR (screenshot pasted and saved in sRGB in PS):
The file in PS converted to sRGB and saved in PS:
The file saved in sRGB from LR:
The file saved in Adobe RGB from LR:
The file saved in ProPhoto RGB from LR:
Additional information that may be useful:
Lightroom 3.6
Camera RAW 6.6
Photoshop CS5.1
Firefox 16.0.1
Monitor calibrated with Spyder3Pro
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Thanks,
Reed
EDIT: After further investigation, it appears that Firefox is treating these images as images without a color space, yet somehow Photoshop and Windows Photo Viewer recognize the color space. So I think I have two concerns: 1) why are my photos drastically different between LR and PS, and 2) how are the images being saved from LR lacking the color space information needed by Firefox yet still retaining it for PS?

ReedJ12 wrote:
It must be embedding the profiles somewhere because when I open the JPEGs in CS5, it recognizes that they're not sRGB. I made these simply by going in LR and clicking on the standard Export button. No external plugins have been installed.
Reed
In that case, were the images in the original post, the result of a "save" operation inside CS5? If so, could they have lost their colourspace tagging at that point, due to something in your Photoshop JPG saving settings (or your "save for web and devices" settings)?
That could be quickly confirmed by uploading a (say) ProPhoto exported image, for comparison, as directly exported from LR - that is, which has never been into Photoshop.
You could also compare this youself against the version you uploaded, side by side in PS - if the one that has just come fresh from LR still has its colourspace tagging, and the other has lost its colourspace tagging, then even though the RGB numbers inside the image may be identical, PS will be interpreting the meaning of the numbers differently in each case - and will therefore display them as different, just as colourspace-aware browsers such as IE8 are doing, for other people viewing your examples online.

Color management issue from Photoshop Acrobat

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