Color profile (sRGB Vs. Adobe RGB)

Hello,
As I am struggling with choosing the 'right' color profile for my photo's (either sRGB or Adobe RGB) I was wondering what your opinion of this subject is. I have searched the internet for the information about this subject, but the forums/answers/information couldn't give me enough satisfaction.
For editing photo's I am using Adobe Photoshop, for my library I use iPhoto. Some photo's are uploaded to sites as www.facebook.com. Sometimes I order a photo book via iPhoto.
Because there are pros and cons for both sRGB and Adobe RGB I am not sure which profile I have to choose. I would like to choose one format, since this will standardize my library.
Looking forward to your opinion.
Best Regards,
Jelle

Larry & Terence,
Did you do any on-screen testing or proofing? All modern browsers support ICC profiles and should show improvement with Adobe RGB in certain color ranges (NOT just Facebook).
Apple products aren't "designed" for sRGB. sRGB is a standard developed by Hewlett Packard and Microsoft (and I think we all can agree those aren't Apples best friends). sRGB is the default for most Cameras and SmartPhones, that doesn't mean it's the best.
Most monitors sold in the last 5 years have wider gamut support than the sRGB.
Article "Can the entire sRGB color gamut be displayed on today's LCD monitors?"
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/srgb-bad-working-space-profile.html
"sRGB was created to match the display characteristics of consumer-grade CRT monitors manufactured in the1990s." "LCDs use a completely different technology to make colors..." "All wide gamut monitors by definition can show more greens, yellows, and cyans than sRGB."
Apple even suggests "Adobe RGB offers a wider gamut than sRGB, and is usually a better choice, if available." in this article:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2026
iPhoto 6 and newer have support for ColorSync profiles, older versions may not work with Adobe RGB and could cause the color to look worse. If a profile isn't present, or isn't supported iPhoto assigns Camera RGB. Complaints about "dark" color from iPhoto are more than 5 years old.

Similar Messages

Converting RGB images (sRGB or Adobe RGB) to 709 color space.

I'm trying to determine the correct way to convert RGB images (sRGB or Adobe RGB) to 709 color space. I can't just use the "covert to profile" function to do this because it does not produce results that fall within the 16 to 235 range that 709 dictates. I've read that you can simply use the "Levels" adjustment and change the output levels to 16 to 235. While this would clearly compress the luminance to the correct range, I'm not entirely clear if the end result would be a proper conversion (i.e. if color and gamma, for example, would be technically correct.)
I noticed that converting the profile to "HDTV (Rec. 709)" does alter the image, so I'm wondering what the result would be if I did both this AND used the levels control to compress the output range to 16 to 235.
Thanks for any feedback on this.

(1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709
(2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._601
The transfer functions for Rec.709 (1) refer to the range [0..1] or for 8 bits per pixel [0...255].
It seems that the clipping, black=16 and white=235 has to happen after the application of the
transfer function. If this should be true, then we don't have a level compression but a level
clipping at both ends, as already for Rec.601 (2), like here:
The ICC-Profile HDTV(Rec.709) in Photoshop contains the primaries and the white point
(both like that in sRGB) and the transfer functions for [0..1], coded by a LUT with high resolution,
as found by Profile Inspector. There is no clipping.
By the way, that`s the internal profile name, I don't know the file name of the profile.
Softproofing, source in sRGB, target HDTV(Rec.709), without clipping:
With numbers not preserved: no change of the appearance, as expected.
With numbers preserved: shows the effect of different effective gammas.
Your questions are very clear and I'm not sure whether my comments help. The information
in the internet is not convincing.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

SRGB or Adobe RGB

What do I have to choose on my camera Canon D400
sRGB or Adobe RGB
And after I made that choice do I have to choose those setting in Bridge and PS CS5 too?

sRGB is the safest bet (Adobe RGB has a bit more color gamut if you know what you are doing)
if you shoot RAW (16 bit recommended) for highest quality, the camera capture space doesn't matter
i recommend these Adobe Color Settings mostly for the color management policies that warn you of profile mismatches and preserve embedded profiles (set the working spaces as you like)...

SRGB vs Adobe RGB

What the heck is the difference between sRGB vs Adobe RGB?
Do I have to reset this in my camera too?
I have a Canon 5D Mark 11
Thanks, Penni

The »s« in srgb supposedly stands for »standard« (though »small« or »s..t« have also been mentioned) and this color-space is so small as to be representable without clipping on most monitors, so it’s recommended to be used for internet-work.
AdobeRGB on the other hand is much larger and intended for professional image-editing.
If You wonder what small and large mean in this context just create an rgb-document with a Spectrum-gradient and assign (not convert) different profiles to it and see how the appearance of pixels of any given rgb-value change.
Or compare the two profiles in ColorSync Utility (in the Utilities-folder).
Of course working in the larger space can cause problems when an image has to be output in a smaller space (as many/most offset printing spaces are), but soft-proofing can help recognize them in time.
Anyway reading up on color management should do You no harm.
It would seem advisable to shoot RAW-images if Your camera offers that option.

Book photos sRGB or Adobe RGB?

Which profile should the images for a book have?
sRGB or Adobe RGB?

I am sorry but I do not think you really understood what profiles are for. An image (be it a JPEG, TIFF or even PDF, since it DISPLAYS something) MUST have metainformation on what its color values mean independently of what device you want to display them on. Without that info a PDF output would be caothic and unforseeable, since each device would interpret it according to the device's defaults.
That metainformation, combined with the information of how a device displays color (that is, a calibrated screen or printer), makes it possible to display images in several devices as close as possible to each other and to its supposed abstract colors (real colors, independent of device). If there is no metainformation (a profile) on what those RGB or CMYK values mean independently of any device, you are simply subject to the color shifting that any device is naturally subject to cause when not instructed on how to correct it. I.e. if a pixel in your image is a neutral gray -not color tinted- and you display it on a screen that shifts to red, you can still make it show a neutral gray if the color engine of your software shifts the image to the opposite color before displaying it. The software accomplishes that by combining the device profile you created when calibrating the device -or at least, by associating it to a default profile intended for that device- and the profile of the image. This is an oversimplification, since profiles in images deal with quite more than just color shifting.
PDF's are intended to be portable (hence, what the P in PDF stands for) and, then, must have a way of guaranteeing that color is reproduced as faithfully as the displaying device allows to. PDFs without information on profiles would be useless to their aim without this metainformation.
So PDFs DO STORE profile information.
The only catch up on this is that PDFs can contain several images, so in fact PDFs do not embed a single profile to govern all images inside it, but one profile for each embedded image.
Quoting you, then, those embedded profiles are what make the point of the PDF - " a self contained freely readable document in its own format" *that displays the same colors in all devices* (* = as close as the device is able to, as long as the device is calibrated, and as long as the device's software also is profile-aware; which can apply pretty much to any computer).
Answering the question of the first poster, I'd go for sRGB, since that is the color gamut most cameras are calibrated for. While AdobeRGB is wider, you will probably not be getting a wider color gamut since your camera did not capture it in the first place. Besides, not all printing services have a decent color workflow, and some will ignore the profiles you embedded (which is catastrophic since that means they will interpret the color values in your photos according to another supposed profile -because by definition, always that there is an interpretation of color values into an output, a theoretical profile is being used even if not aware of that, since that is what a profile does: turn abstract -digital- color values into real colors). And since sRGB is quite more used than AdobeRGB, their device will most probably output closer to the former. AdobeRGB images interpreted in an sRGB color space become dramatically desaturated.
I hope that helps. If you need me to be more explicit on something, just ask.

SRGB or Adobe RGB in camera when using Aperture?

I would appreciate any help I can get with this one:
Which color space should I use in my D300 (sRGB or Adobe RGB) if I'm using Aperture and why? I'm referring to shooting RAW. Or does color space only matter if I shoot JPEGs? Does it depend on output?
Thanks,
Jerry

It depends on your needs. Adobe RGB is a wider color space so if you're going to do any work with the photo, it will give you a little more flexibility without clipping the colors. But you WILL have to convert it to sRGB before sending to a printer or publishing to the web, if you don't want issues with non-color-aware browsers (which means, pretty much any browser but Safari).
Still... Aperture makes using RAW as easy as JPEG with numerous benefits so there's little reason to shoot JPEG and use Aperture

Color Spaces CIE and Adobe RGB

Looking at monitor specs, usually, the color space of the monitor is given in terms of a target color space, like 96% Adobe RGB. Some give several, but along comes Dell, u2412, and they supply one: 82% CIE.
I know what CIE is, but making a guesstimate from the Dell spec requires more than what I presently know about such matters.
So, what are the expectations? Is that a meaningful spec for comparison sake? IOW, how much does Adobe RGB enclose CIE 1976?
TIA
Lawrence

I went back to here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/916368?start=0&tstart=0
and ran some of those checks with the various presentations. Also, embarrassingly, I did know about the site but failed to go back when I looked for any test results for the 2412.
sic transit Gloria!
I also generated a step tablet in PS, as well as doing several calibration reruns. I did a calibration in "Standard"ode and one in "Custom" where I had access to RGB controls.
TFT Central did the same and claimed that the Custom was more troublesome and didn't yield any significant improvement. I beg to differ!
Also, they made available the results of the Standard and Custom as an ICC profile for users and I defy anyone to tell me there is no significant difference. Between my two calibrations and TFT's, I have 4 flavors from which to choose. Wow! I'm impressed (NOT!)
At any rate I settled on using my custom version as it shows the most neutral gray. It also showed the smaller dE both average and max deviation, 0.34 and 1.2 respectively, the only one exceeding 1.0. It also was close to the factory default than the others.
What a way to run a railroad!
The other fussbudget item is X-Rite. I doesn't like calibrating LCD. It manages to skip over steps along the way, and if I hadn't the experience and expectations step to step with my crt, I would probably be returning the Dell at this time. The differences from the data pov between my Custom and Average should be barely visible, but in fact, it is visually significant. Normal conclusions would hold the monitor at fault.
Off to contact X-Rite.
Lawrence

Photosmart 8750 - Which to use when printing - sRGB or Adobe RGB?

I've been printing with the 8750 and previously with the B8350, and have always sent my images to the printer as TIF files in Adobe RGB. I use conventional softproofing technique in Photoshop CS4 and get minimal, but expected color shifts (if any).
But recently I dredged up some old reviews of the 8750 which say that its output closely matches sRGB. Got me thinking... with this printer, should I be converting my images to sRGB before sending to the printer? Will I get truer color with less color shift from clipping?
Chas

It depends on your needs. Adobe RGB is a wider color space so if you're going to do any work with the photo, it will give you a little more flexibility without clipping the colors. But you WILL have to convert it to sRGB before sending to a printer or publishing to the web, if you don't want issues with non-color-aware browsers (which means, pretty much any browser but Safari).
Still... Aperture makes using RAW as easy as JPEG with numerous benefits so there's little reason to shoot JPEG and use Aperture

Color profile when changing from RGB to CMYK

I prefer to work on images in RGB then change to cmyk once I'm sure i won't need to run any more effects or filters on them. When I save an image the first time, I have the option to embed my color profile with the image. It embeds the RGB profile... the only option as long as I'm working in RGB. What I've noticed though, is that after converting to cmyk, I don't get any warnings or other indication that it needs me to embed the color profile. I need to do a save-as in order to get back to that option.
So the question is... does Photoshop automatically switch to my default CMYK color profile when I convert to CMYK? So when I save, it's now using the CMYK profile?

Save your original RGB file.
Then, RGB file > Edit > Convert to Profile (with CMYK#1) > Save As...
This creates your first CMYK file.
Then, back to original RGB file > Edit > Convert to Profile (with CMYK#2) > Save As...
This creates your second CMYK file.
Then, back to original RGB file > Edit > Convert to Profile (with CMYK#3) > Save As...
This creates your third CMYK file.
In all cases, be sure you have "Embed Color Profile" checked at the bottom of the Save As dialog. When naming a file, it's handy to include some sort of indication as to the color space.
In the end, you have four files: 1 RGB file, 3 CMYK files.

SRGB or Adobe RGB for stills?

When preparing photos in PS to bring into PP, does the color space matter?
1. For HD video which color space should I use?
2. For 4K video which color space should I use?
Thanks.

Anyone on this?
Thanks.

Possibility to assign a color profile in the color management tab for more video formats

Presently, in After Effects CS5, in the color management tab of the "Interpret Footage" dialog box the possibility to assign a color profile to footage is grayed out for many video formats.
Formats that allow to assign a color profile include Quicktime/JPEG2000, Quicktime/Motion JPEG A, Quicktime/Motion JPEG B, Quicktime/MPEG-4, Quicktime/Animation as well as various image sequences, like tiff-sequences. (Motion JPEG A,B and Quicktime/MPEG-4 are not very helpful in this context because they have a small color shift when reimported to After Effects.)
Formats that do not allow to assign a color profile include Quicktime/PhotoJPEG, Quicktime/H264, H264 main concept, DVCPRO HD 1080p30, F4V. (Here, H264 main concept has anyway the disadvantage that it has a color shift when reimported into After Effects.)
In After Effects CS4 it was possible to assign a color profile to Quicktime/H264, Quicktime/PhotoJPEG, DVCPRO HD 1080p30, but in CS5 this is no longer possible.
Those video formats that do not allow to assign a color profile automatically are interpreted as having the color profile HDTV (Rec. 709) Y'CbCr in case that the videos have 1920x1080 format; similar applies to PAL formats which get SDTV (Rec. 709) Y'CbCr color profile.
(I did not find anything of this automatic assignment to HDTV or SDTV color profile in the "interpretation rules.txt" file, therefore it must be written into the programme itself.)
With growing popularity of wide gamut monitors it becomes necessary to produce footage and other videos that have a color profile different from HDTV or sRGB. When such footage is reimported to After Effects it has the wrong color and the only workarounds are either to use (in After Effects) the effect "Color profile converter" which necessitates extra render time or to use somewhat unpopular formats, like JPEG2000 that has very large filesize.
Presently many footage is produced in Quicktime/PhotoJPEG and therefore it would be very desirable to allow to assign a color profile to such footage in the color management tab of the "Interpret Footage" dialog box.
Does anyone know why in AE CS5 the video formats Quicktime/PhotoJPEG and Quicktime/H264 do not allow to have an arbitrary color profile assigned (although it was possible in CS4), is it a bug, or does it have a deeper reason.
In this context I have a related question, often I read that Quicktime videos have a gamma tag. Does this mean that part of the color profile (the gamma value) is actually embedded/remembered, like you have it for images where the gamma is part the embedded color profile.
I use AE CS5 on Mac Pro 2009 with OS 10.6.7.
Thanks,
Volker

Thank you Rick for this interesting explanations and the links to articles.
In the past few days I performed a few tests in After Effects and it is interesting that you mention that cameras, like the Sony EX3, allow videos to have embedded color profiles. I am not working myself with cameras but either get footage from the internet or sometimes videos from our video department which produces videos with professional SONY cameras, usually I get them in a matrox mxf format.
As far as my test with After Effects show it is not possible to embed color profiles in the videos rendered with After Effects. Independent of the color profile in the working space and independent from the color profile in the output module I always get the same reaction if I reimport videos rendered by After Effects back to After Effects:
In AE CS5 videos made in the formats Quicktime/PhotoJPEG, Quicktime/H264, H264 main concept, DVCPRO HD 1080p30, F4V are always interpreted as color profile SDTV/HDTV (Rec. 709) Y'CbCr (even if I made them in other color profiles, such as Adobe RGB, Photo RGB, sRGB); and there is no possibility to change this interpretation rule.
In contrast videos made in the formats Quicktime/JPEG2000, Quicktime/Motion JPEG A, Quicktime/Motion JPEG B, Quicktime/MPEG-4, Quicktime/Animation are always interpreted as sRGB (even if if I made them in other color profiles, such as Adobe RGB, Photo RGB, HDTV); only this time I can change the interpretation rule. Therefore if I know for example that if I had selected Photo RGB in the Output module I can change after the reimport the interpretation rule from sRGB to Photo RGB and only then I get again the original colors.
The only exceptions are picture sequences, such as tiff-sequences, where the original color profile is automatically selected in the interpretation of the footage.
Therefore, unfortunately for videos produced by After Effects your advice "If it says something like sRGB and you can change it, in most cases you shouldn't change it because the guess is probably right. If there is no color profile assigned then you should assume that is correct." is not so easy to be applied. You have to know how you did it originally in the Output module and hope that you can change it to the proper color profile, in case that the original color profile in the Output module was different from sRGB and HDTV/SDTV. But it is interesting to hear from you that with cameras there seem to be more possibilities.
For this reason it would be nice if in future versions of After Effects one could change the color profile in the the color management tab of the "Interpret Footage" dialog box also for formats such as Quicktime/PhotoJPEG, Quicktime/H264, H264 main concept, DVCPRO HD 1080p30, F4V.
Of course one can always circumvent shortcomings by using tiff-sequences, QT/jpeg2000, or QT/Animation as formats for storing, which is anyway better for lossless or nearly lossless storing, but the files are then too large and also cannot be played easily with a player.
Volker

Bridge Filter Tab - Color Profile

I have an iMac (Mountain Lion OS X
10.8.4) Nikon NX2, Nikon
D800E camera, and Photoshop CS6.
Most of the 100 or so photos I
have transferred to my Mac by (USB and
also card) are RAW NEF at approx. 40MB a file. (Lossless compression) Most all of these pictures are in Color Space Adobe RGB, because that is
what I set up on the camera.
When in Bridge > Filter Tab > Color Profile > [this says that the majority of the NEF
photos , in the camera’s Color Profile Space of Adobe RGB, are not in this
color space, but the color profile of “UNTAGGED!” I’ve studied all the preferences and options of
Bridge and I am not 100% that I know what to change so these photos will show
in the color space I want them to and I don’t want to make a mistake by
clicking something that I can’t undo so…
How do I
get these photos (which I guess are showing up in Bridge as sRGB color space)
to show up in Adobe RGB. And if I can
change this, what could be the good or bad consequences of changing to Adobe
RBG?
There is
also a Thumbnail Option – “Generate 100%
previews. Will checking this show the previews at 100%? And what consequences does using this have?
Thank You Very Much For Your Help,
Thank You,
Sandy

I looked at my canon raw files and they also say untagged. So Apparently the color profile does not get saved in the side car file. Which maybe a good thing. The raw file is suppose to be your negative, in that it doesn't need any color profile until you do something with it in another file format that does support color profiles.
The generate previews will use up more drive space to speed up previewing them. But in general, I never really needed it. So it boils down to what type of system do you have, ex. plenty of drive space, speed of cpu, amount of ram, etc.

RAW Images using Adobe RGB

This appears to not just be an issue with iPhoto but more of the RAW image support in OS X itself.
All RAW images that are opened in preview have the color profile Adobe RGB attached to them - this goes for all RAW images that I export to JPEGs from iPhoto. While this isn't really a problem if I am to keep/view/print images from my MacBook alone - but the colors of my images get messed up when I export some images for my wife to view on her PC - or when I use the Facebook feature of iPhoto to upload images to my Facebook account. The conversion to sRGB makes them look all washed out.
Is there some way to have OS X use a different color profile when processing RAW images... so I know that what it will look like after I make adjustments and export them? Like I say - this isn't an iPhoto issue - but a OS X RAW Image issue... so forgive me if this is not the correct forum.
Cheers!

Thanks TD,
I think that applies to JPEGs that are brought into iPhoto as opposed to RAW images that OS X processes.
I am sure Facebook does process the file somewhat... mostly resizing the image to meet its specs. But as for the color I am sure it is to do with the color profile used. As I a say, the images look the same (washed out) when opened on my wife's PC (or my two PCs for that matter).
I tested this by exporting a RAW image to JPEG in iPhoto... open it in Preview - the color profile used is Adobe RGB (as this is what OS X RAW Processing is using). I apply (convert) to sRGB and the colors become washed out (just as when uploading to Facebook). So it's apparent that it's a Color Profile issue. I just wanted to know if the OS X RAW processing be set to use another Color Profile.... Adobe RGB looks good... but not so great if the file is to be viewed with or exported to sRGB.
Cheers!
Chris
Message was edited by: streamworksaudio

ProColor RGB or Adobe RGB ?

I have always run Adobe RGB on PS (now CS3)... have it "automatically convert".
*When I go to PS it is normally because the Output will be to a Printer in the End (and also a web version) ... (also have my camera set to Adobe RGB, "although" I always shoot RAW ... never know when you might run out of space lol)
OK, so because LR is PROphoto RGB ... is it NOW better to Export ALL my images from LR using PROphoto RGB and not have PS CS3 "auto convert" all my images to Adobe RGB anymore? (my default in PS CS3 is to work in Adobe RGB)
* YES, whenever I Print in office ... or send a Profiled JPG to a Printer SITE ... I am using a Printer ICC or converting to the ICC.
lol, have a feeling I might know the answer ... but want to confirm if it is in FACT better to be working in PROphoto RGB all the way?
And that most is doing it this way ....
HG

On 3/19/07 6:45 PM, "M Behrens" wrote:
Or is the "working color space" of LR inconsequential since you cannot get an image out of LR without seleting an embedded color space that the image is converted to? I read somewhere that ProPhotoRGB isn't really the working color space of LR, it mentioned Mellisa or Love Child. If LR has its own color space and simply converts on output. Monitor display is simply another output to sRGB, if calibrated having an ICC file to assist in conversion.
There are two color spaces to consider. One you can control, one you cant. The internal color space for all processing in LR is ProPhoto RGB using a linear encoding. We cant mess with that and theres no reason to.
We can export to three color spaces, two smaller than the internal color space (sRGB and Adobe RGB (1998)).
I dont have any issues doing everything in ProPhoto RGB 16-bit. With a totally raw workflow, thats easy. Where things get a tad dicey is using existing rendered images in LR. They have a color space before you import them. So in theory, you could be moving from sRGB to ProPhoto RGB (internal color space processing) then out to either sRGB again (which seems like a good idea) or Adobe RGB (1998) or finally, ProPhoto RGB. It would be cool if LR could somehow honor the original and output color space. So if you start with sRGB, you get sRGB (but again, theres a conversion to ProPhoto RGB/linear gamma if you do any corrections).
If you stick with 16-bits going out of LR, I doubt youll have an issue doing this theoretical sRGB to ProPhoto RGB dance but I suspect if the original color space was sRGB, that was for a reason and I suspect many want to honor that. Of course, if you start with a color space thats not one of the three spaces that are supported for export, its kind of moot. IOW, you can end up witb any color space you wish, as long as its sRGB, Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.
Melissa RGB (Love Child RGB) is a cute name for the space thats used to represent the histogram and percentage values. Youre never really dealing with this space.
Applications dont have a color space? Well they use a color space for processing so yes. In the case of LR, the internal color space used is ProPhoto RGB as defined by this specs white point and primaries (chromaticity values) but using a linear encoding (what some would call a gamma of 1.0). Melissa RGB is the same expect its using the sRGB tone response curve (what would incorrectly be called a 2.2 gamma encoding). Then you have three options for a color space in which to encode your images upon export out of LR.

PSE 11 - How save image with printer color profile?

I use an outside service to make prints. How can I save an image in PSE 11 in either TIFF or JPEG format with the color profile for the outside lab's printer? Thanks.

You can print a photo using the correct printer profile for the lab printer. In the print dialog box , go to "Page Option>Color Management" and then choose Color Handling as "Photoshop Managers color". Now click the printer profile dropdown and choose the profile for your lab printer. If you are not able to find the profile for you printer then choose "Printer Manages Color"
To your second question the answer is that you cannot save the image with the correct colors for printing. You can only convert the profile of your image to Adobe RGB which matches gamut of most printer profiles using "Image Menu>Convert Color Profile and choose Adobe RGB.

Color profile (sRGB Vs. Adobe RGB)

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for