DreamColor Monitor from PC via VGA: Color-Space & Settings?

Context:
Premiere CC on a WIndows 7 laptop with an external DreamColor monitor connected via VGA port (for convenience rather than bit depth).
What color space is appropriate in the DreamColor settings, i.e. what is the VGA likely to be supplying? DreamColor's config options are: [ Full | AdobeRGB | Rec.601 | sRGB | Rec.709 | DCI P3 Emulation ]. I'm guessing sRGB, but is that reasonable e.g. is it the Adobe kind?

Several questions spring to mind ... first, are you calibrating this with an actual "real" calibration tool, such as the i1Display units, anything? Because ... if the answer is no ... well, the output isn't set to any particular "there" before you even start, is it?
Next ... what are you going to be outputting for? B-cast TV? Critical web use? Your own YouTube/Vimeo channel for the heck of it? Family records? Whatever is going to be the "heaviest" output (meaning demands on color space) sets the minimum from what your choices can offer. Critical web work or such, you would either want the Adobe RGB or the Rec.709 I would think. For just fun stuff, the sRGB would work ok.
Fwiw ... Adobe RGB is a wider color space than "standard" sRGB. Rec.601 & Rec.709 are "broadcast" standards that include specialized base/gain/gamma settings. Rec.709 is the newer and far more common one of the two ... and it sets "black" as at value (in 8-bit terms) of 16 and "white" at 235. Data outside those values are used for technical purposes within the "system". Some modern video cams record in Rec.709, btw.

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Does Lightroom care about camera color space settings?

I am using a NEX 7. Color space options on the camera are sRGB and AdobeRGB. Does Lightroom care about the camera color space settings when it sees RAW files?

Colorspace is used in-camera for creating the jpeg preview embedded in the raw file (and/or jpeg sidecar).
The colorspace is embedded in the jpeg sidecar, and so Lightroom will respect it.
The colorspace is *usually* NOT embedded in the raw preview (although in my opinion it should be). Its in the raw file as proprietary metadata.
All camera manufacturer softwares respect the colorspace for initial raw preview, but Lightroom does not.
(Lightroom doesn't attend to any proprietary metadata, except white balance).
Cheers,
Rob

From Stage3Image() to sRGB color space

I get my image this way dng_image* image = (negative->Stage3Image()); I have to manimulate with it and then I want to covtert it to sRGB color space. I tryed to do gamma 2.2 and white balance with white point from camera, but colors are still different.
I think that I should use this matrix camera2RGB for conversion but I don't know how.
dng_camera_profile* profile = negative->CameraProfileToEmbed();
dng_color_spec spec(*negative,profile);
const dng_matrix camera2RGB = dng_space_sRGB::Get ().MatrixFromPCS () * spec.CameraToPCS ();
profile->HasColorMatrix1(); returns true
profile->HasColorMatrix2(); returns true
negative->HasCameraNeutral(); returns true
Sorry for my language skill
Thank you
Petr Kocich

Broadly, (and speaking from memory) what dng_render does is to convert
into a linear (gamma 1) ProPhoto space, apply a tone curve, etc, then
convert to the final output color space.
The mathematics are conventional color matrix maths. You can find a
lot of references on the web. Including some I wrote : http://chromasoft.googlepages.com/colorspacepapers
The other place to look is at the documentation of CMMs such as
littleCMS: http://www.littlecms.com/
What littleCMS does is exactly the same, if a bit more generalized, as
what the DNK SDK does in regards of color management.
Sandy

Can remove music from iPad via iTunes, but space remains consumed

Hi,
I'm trying to remove music & photos from my iPad, so I can make space to backup my GoodNotes files. I have ~3gb free, but apparently this isn't enough. So, I managed to delete all of the music from my iPad via iTunes, and it is now completely removed off of my iPad. However, there is still ~3gb free. The space the music consumed is still not free and I don't know why.
Attached is a screen shot of the issue. As you can see, all of the music has been deleted, but the bottom bar still dedicates that amount of space to 'audio.' There are no songs in the music heading under 'On My Device' either. I managed to make it so that the bar showed 8gb of free space, but when I synced nothing changed and 3gb was still all that was free.
What do I do? I don't know if my GoodNotes files will remain intact if I restore my iPad.
Thanks in advance.

iTunes no longer says my space is consumed by audio. I did a software update and now most of the space is in the 'other' section.
I usually try to back up GoodNotes to Google Drive, and no, there are no files in the file sharing area on iTunes. The issue with backing up the GoodNotes files is that it gets maybe 30 minutes into the process and then I get a message to say that there is no more space left to continue. Storage usage says GoodNotes consumes 3gb of space on its own, but I don't believe it is accurate.
I really don't know what to do, and these files are important for my university work, so I'm hesitant to risk losing them.

Color Space Issue with Wide-Gamut monitor

Since getting my new (and carefully calibrated) LaCie 324 monitor, I have noticed that RAW (and maybe other) images exported from Lightroom as
sRGB jpegs look washed out and slightly green when viewed outside of Lightroom (IE8, Firefox, ACDSee, windows 7 viewer). It seems not to matter whether the external application horors embedded color space profiles or not, since the unmanaged ones assume sRGB.
When I bring one of these jpegs into PhotoShop it still looks bad, and not what I see in Lightroom. However, if I Assign the Adobe RGB profile to the image, it immediately looks like the Lightroom version. And if I then Convert that image to sRGB and save it, it looks fine everywhere, even on an uncalibrated standard Dell TN LCD display.
Any ideas what I might be seeing here. A friend with the same monitor has the same problem, which is what is leading me to suspect the monitor.
The first image here is converted from Lightroom with sRGB color space. The second was first assigned the Adobe RGB color profile and then converted and saved out again as a jpeg.
Converted Only

I downloaded and ran the program. My version number appears to be 2.1 if I read the numbers right.
I am still at a loss as to why my sRGB jpegs only look right if I assign the wrong profile to them.
Here are the settings in Windows 7 for color management. The highlighted profile is the one just created for my monitor. Display 2 is my main display. Note the "viewing conditions" setting on the advanced tab. Do you think the rendering intent might be at fault here? In Lightroom, should I use Perceptual over Relative or vice versa?

Aperture, Color Space, Printing, Oh My!

Any help with these is greatly appreciated. I've read countless articles and forums, only to be left with these questions because no one can answer them.
1) In RAW only if I want to print with my B9180 and process in Aperture, does the in-camera color space settings even matter? I do use soft-proofing in Aperture for the HP papers I use. Everything I read about it says Adobe RGB in-camera should be used when making your own prints at home, but they are always referring to printing from within Photoshop, but I don't use PS, so I'm confused about this with Aperture.
2) Now, what if I shot JPGs? Will in-camera color space matter in this same scenario (Aperture, B9180 printing at home)?
3) Using Aperture in a JPG workflow, does the application see the in-camera color space I selected or does Aperture have its own color space? Or is it selected based on the soft-proofing profile I use?

Henrik,
That's an awful lot of words but none of it gets at the day to day use of the program or really provides and answer for the original poster of the thread.
Yes, of course a soft proof is a simulation. That's why it's a soft proof. It's also never going to match the output exactly. It can't.
Strip away all the science under the hood as it relates to soft-proofing in Aperture (part of Jerry's question #3) and the questions are:
What is this?
When should I use it?
How do I use it?
What? It's a way of getting a sense of how your image will look when output. It requires that you are working on a calibrated monitor and you need an output profile in order to use it. It will never match your output 100%. It cannot due to screen vs. paper, how the color on each is created, gamut and contrast of each, etc.
When? In Aperture you should work on your image with "Onscreen Proofing" turned off. Why? because you should work your images as best possible without initial regard for the output. It may end up being output for different uses in the future (screen, inkjet print, offset printed, etc.) You can use Aperture's "Onscreen Proofing" if you want get a sense of how your image will look when output. You don't have to, just like you don't have to in Photoshop. If all you are doing is outputting to an in-house inkjet printer you could just make a test print via color managed printing, see how it looks, and then adjust as needed. But if you want to get sense of what's what and whether you need to make any changes before you hit "print" then you can do the soft proof. The soft-proof would also be helpful heading off issues if you are not printing in-house (again, assuming you have a correct output profile.)
How? In Aperture to get a sense of how the output will be you need to select your output profile in View>Proofing Profile and then turn on Onscreen Proofing, View>Onscreen Proofing. Now, you can turn on and off the proofing feature to get a sense of how the image will be reproduced. If your image is not soft-proofing as you expected or want you can create a duplicate of the image file. Then alter that to bring the image as close as possible to the feel of the non-proofed image. This is similar to Photoshop where you can "Proof Setup" and the duplicate your image and/or create additional image layers to bring the image more in line with your intention or expectation.
Jerry - FWIW, I know you posted about an HP printer in another thread. See the comments here,
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/02/13/insideaperturepodcast-9.html . There seem to be some HP printer based issues with regard to Onscreen proofing. This link also has a podcast with Joe Schorr, Apple's Senior Product Manager for Aperture, specifically about color management and onscreen proofing in Aperture.
Jon Roemer
site: http://www.jonroemer.com/
blog: http://jonroemer.typepad.com/jon_roemer/

Visual representations of color spaces

I copied these diagrams from the program called Color Space ...
Can be downloaded from here: COULEUR.ORG
I think that it draws spectral locus on xyY by just plotting matching x, y and Y values for every interval of monochromatic lights on the spectrum ... just like we draw the locus line in XYZ by plotting matching tristimulus values X, Y and Z.
Because the underlying data for the most saturated colors human can see is CIE XYZ color matching functions, I think that we can draw the line of spectral locus in every model originated from CIE XYZ by just making necessary transformations to the XYZ tristimulus values for the intended model.
3D representation of the entire human gamut is more tricky, I think. I will ask about it, after getting your confirmation about the spectrum locus.

A set of three numbers in xyY or XYZ defines a color.
How does it look? How can it be reproduced?
A good occasion to go back to the roots.
The CIE color system is essentially based on the work of Hermann Graßmann,
one of the greatest scientists in the 19th century [1].
Mostly his four laws are quoted [2], but it boils down to this [3]:
"The whole set of color stimuli constitutes a linear vector space,
named tristimulus space."
Colors behave like vectors in a three-dimensional space. A color is
characterized by three numbers. A fourth number would be redundant
(linearly dependent). A color is not characterized by just one spectrum. For
one color exists an arbitrary number of different spectra, called metamers.
The explanation of Graßmann's laws via spectra [4] is wrong.
Nobody knows what a color 'really' is. Acccording to the philosopher Kant,
we don't know what any object in the space 'really' is. We have just an
impression by our senses, eventually enhanced by instruments.
Colors are described by comparison with reference colors. For length and
weight we need references as well: the meter, the kilogramm.
Reference colors are (for instance) the three CIE primaries, spectral colors
with well defined wavelengths (it's not important, that the first experiments
were executed with a different set). Let's say R,G,B.
According to Graßmann one needs exactly three 'primaries'. This should
have ended a long dispute: three or four?, but it didn't.
Now we can use these spectral colors as base vectors of a coordinate system.
According to Kant, humans have an a-priori idea of space (without any proof),
where we can position objects. By intuition the axes are orthogonal.
Any other color can be described by a linear combination of the three primaries,
according to Graßmann exactly in a vector space. Color matching means:
find the three weights for the primaries to match a given (numerically unknown)
color.
Unfortunately, one needs for the matching of some colors negative weight factors,
which is possible by the concept of vector space, but somewhat disturbing for
real color mixing.
In RGB we can describe a new vector space by base vectors X,Y,Z, which form
a non-orthogonal coordinate system. All colors have non-negative coordinates X,Y,Z
and this construct has the funny feature, that luminance is identical with Y,
whereas the 'imaginary primaries' X and Z don't have luminance. Mathematically
this is not a problem.
The relation between the two spaces is given by a matrix Cxr and its Inverse:
X=(X,Y,Z)' (column vectors)
R=(R,G,B)'
X=Cxr R
R=Crx X =Cxr^-1 X
Conventionally we draw XYZ as a cartesian coordinate system (with orthogonal axes),
and R,G,B is the set of non-orthogonal base vectors – the arrangement has been swapped.
There is no natural law, which of the coordinate systems has to be shown as a cartesian.
XYZ is universal. Other RGB-systems with new primaries can be added, either as
working spaces like sRGB, aRGB or pRGB (ProPhotoRGB, which uses two non-physical
primaries, which doesn't surprise, because we got used to entirely non-physical primaries
X,Y,Z), or device RGB systems like monitor spaces. Each RGB system is related to XYZ
using a matrix, thus we can transform as well from one RGB-system to another.
Now it's possible to render a threedimensional visualization of a color space by appropriate
colors, for instance aRGB. But for a monitor these colors would be clipped almost at the
sRGB boundary.
Of course it's not possible to render pRGB correctly, because the blue and green primary
are outside the human gamut, and the red primary would be too dark. Therefore it's wise,
to use pRGB only for regions or real world colors.
There might be still an objection: the reference system contains only spectral colors.
How are the little saturated colors looking? This had been clarified by Graßmann: the vector
addition of any two colors is valid mathematically and by appearance.
These explanations may also help to end the dispute about the 'basic colors', especially
for painting. Many artists have invented their own system. The answer is simple: basic
colors are like primaries. Their location in the XYZ-space defines, which colors can be
created with positive weight factors or mixing ratios. By the way: one shouldn't worry here
about the difference between additive and subtractive color mixing.
One may have serious doubts, whether Graßmann's laws and the whole CIE colorimetry
is really valid, especially considering numerous optical illusions [5] and all these special
effects in color appearance, like Helmholtz-Kohlrausch and other nonlinearities.
It's perhaps surprising, that CIE colorimetry works so very well for image processing and
device calibration for monitors, printers and cameras.
Finally I would like to mention another scientist, which is not as popular as others,
probably because his work is mathematically difficult: Jozef B.Cohen [6].
His work has been continued by William Thornton, Michael Brill and James Worthey
(for a further search).
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
[1] Hermann Günther Graßmann (Grassmann)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Grassmann
[2]
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gra%C3%9Fmannsche_Gesetze
[3] Claudio Oleari
http://www.slidefinder.net/o/oleari10/32197498/p3
(6th slide).
[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassmann%27s_law_%28optics%29
[5]
http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/index.html
[6]
Jozef B.Cohen
Visual Color and Color Mixture
http://books.google.de/books?id=W8QeI5di7t4C&pg=PR13&lpg=PR13&dq=cohen+color&source=bl&ots =aYGoI0I99g&sig=IJEgdJjk3yDhi-1NvTD4GdyUIXk&hl=de&sa=X&ei=614hVM_dFsrMyAPbzoDwCA&ved=0CGsQ 6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=cohen%20color&f=false

Color problem with ProPhoto RGB color space

Hi, everyone,
I have wery special problem I think. I use MacBook pro 15" with retina display, adobe Photoshop CC and when I export RAW (from Nikon D7000) from Lightroom 5 to Photoshop with settings: 16 bit TIF, color space: ProPhoto RGB I have a problem with displaying the correct colors. As you can see in this picture:
My problem are some "green" artefacts in absolutely black and white picture. I tried myself to solve this problem and found the following facts: when I convert picture into Adobe RGB or sRGB color space is everything OK - without green artefacts.
But here is one important fact: I have calibrated monitor by datacolor spyder4elite and problem with ProPhoto RGB incorrect color displaying is only when the color calibration configuration is loaded. When I change my display calibration to standard apple color LCD profile than is everything OK.
But using uncalibrated monitor and also Adobe RGB color space are no right solutions for me.
My question is why I have problem with displaying ProPhoto RGB color space in photoshop under calibrated monitor profile and can anybody help me please?
Thanks for answers.

That's a classic example of the basic problem with 16 bit color. There is no solution that I know of.

No color space change wanted

I have 1080p clips (h.264) which are perfect in color. But after putting them together in FCPX and exporting, the colors get slightly changed, all looks a bit washed out compared to the original, the black is not quiet so black any more, the white not so white and the colors a bit less strong. Now I have tried export directly from FCPX, with or without preferences/color analysis, exporting via Compressor and used all the different color space settings there (source, standard, SD 601, HD 509) it makes no difference. I never achieve the quality of the original. What else can I try?

Try editing the project as Pro Res 422.
Russ

Trying to Export - Quicktime to DPX - in Linear (R709) Color space NOT LOG

Hello,
I am trying to export an image sequence through compressor from a Linear (R709) color space. When I try to do the dpx image sequence output it changes the files to LOG.
Is there a way to pass the material through without any color space changes?
Thank-you,
Carl

FYI, In the Inspector, and filtes, COLOR tab> Output Color Space: Default for Encoder (CAN NOT BE CHANGED - It is greyed out)

Color spaces in AWT and JAI

Hi,
I am trying to build a image editing application that
supports color management. I am using Swing, AWT, and
JAI 1.1.2. Unfortunately, the most recent tutorial I
could find is about JAI 1.0.1, and a bit outdated.
Does anybody know where I can find a newer tutorial?
The problem I'm having is related to color spaces.
I would like the user to select from a variety of
color spaces like Adobe RGB, Bruce RGB, etc., etc.
These spaces are not supported by default, so it
seems, and I couldn't find a way to define them
myself. Of course I want the TIFF/JPEG readers and
writers to be able to recognize these spaces if their
profiles are embedded, and to include these profiles
when writing images.
Any help or references?
Thanks!
Job Honig

Well, I have the same problem, sort of.
You can get the jpeg profile from the EXIF information of the file (http://www.drewnoakes.com/code/exif/) so you at least know what is coming in. This will work for jpeg, not for tiff (I think).
However, I didn't manage to find a way to create a buffered image for the right profile. You can create it as a default, which is sRGB, or as CS_LINEAR_RGB etc, but did not managed to get a straight correlation between the color space of the image and the ICC profile of the input.
Than, I tried to use ColorConvertOp to convert from the input space to the output space, by using
ColorConvertOp convert = new ColorConvertOp (srcCspace, dstCspace, new RenderingHints( RenderingHints.KEY_COLOR_RENDERING , RenderingHints.VALUE_COLOR_RENDER_QUALITY));
But somehow the results when printed do not look correct.
Didn't manage to find any good example on how to take in one space (like ADOBE RGB 1998) and put it in a PDF file so it will print in the exact color space (either directly, or by converting it to XYZ, whatever).
Anyway, if you have any success here, I'll be happy to know...
-Yishai

Do I need to harmonize color space between LR and other photo editing programs.

I perform the majority of my editing work in Lightroom. However, I also use some 3rd party applications (e.g. Nik, OnOne, etc.) in addition to Photoshop for special editing, etc. I've noticed that the default color space for each of these applications is different. Some default to Adobe RGBb, other sRGB and still others Pro Photo RGB. Should I be using the same color space and bit depth across all of these programs? When I export from LR, should that color space be the same as everything else? I have noticed that when I export some images and take them to a retail store based print service that the colors appear dull and drab. I believe that is because those mass producing print services don't read the color space in the JPEG correctly. Does any of this make sense, or am I way off? Thanks for everyone's input and time.

For your editing workflow, best is to keep the image in the same color space at all time. For final export you should convert to desiered space... for example sRGB for web, adobeRGB for print etc.

RGB Working Color SPace ....

I'm very confused with this stuff ...
I read that when we setup Photoshop we should set the working color space
rgb to Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB .... fine I understand this up to a point.
However what happend if the monitor can not display the color space ?
For example when I display the Color Picker on my external NEC monitor
everything always looks good but on my internal laptop monitor there is
banding in the Color Picker.
If I set the working color space to srgb then the banding disapears.
So just how should I set all this up ?

Michael,
rely on a calibrated precision monitor (not the laptop),
define all images by AdobeRGB and improve them by Levels,
Curves and Sharpening.
Check occasionally by Proof Colors / Gamut Warning
(using the monitor profile) whether the colors are out
of gamut for the monitor.
The monitor is probably not the final output device.
If the output device should be e.g. offset ISOCoated,
then check by Proof Colors / Gamut Warning whether the
colors are out of gamut for ISOCoated. If this should
be the case, then modify the RGB source until only small
parts of the image are out of gamut (yellow blossoms).
Otherwise larger parts might be affected by posterization
(blue sky).
Theoretically one can use 'desaturate by 20%', which should
show larger space colors mapped to the smaller space.
I don't use it, I'm preferring the gamut warning - recently
for a couple of landscape photos with very blue skies,
yellow blossoms and orange sunsets.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Color spaces not sticking...?

What's Confusing: I have a layered file, the color space assigned to it is sRGB. I save a png file via Save For Web, tick the option to convert export to sRGB. All looks good in the save for web 2-up preview. But when I open the new png file, it's color profile is set to Adobe RGB, and the color space looks off—not like it did in the SFW preview.
Details: My default color space is Adobe RGB. Sync'd across all CS5 apps. I have the option ticked to warn me on profile mismatches when opening a file. So far so good.
So it seems like my Working Space color (Adobe RGB) is overriding SFW settings as well as my document color space settings
Same thing happens when saving as a jpg.
Any thoughts?

To erase, delete or reset Save For Web & Devices SFW preferences:
Open a small .jpg in Photoshop (to ungray the File menu).
Mac: Press and hold Option+Command keys, while File> Save For Web Devices (you will get a prompt confirming you want to erase all Save for Web preferences).
Windows PC: Press and hold Control+Alt keys, while File> Save For Web Devices (you will get a prompt confirming you want to erase all Save for Web preferences).
that should configure SFW default settings to CONVERT your Photoshop Source Space to sRGB and strip the ICC profile by default
How to reset Photoshop's preferences using special key combinations (most Adobe apps use this method of keystrokes):
First Quit Photoshop.
Mac: Press and hold Command+Option+Shift keys, while opening Photoshop (you will get a prompt confirming you want to delete the Adobe Photoshop settings folder).
Windows PC: Press and hold Alt+Control+Shift keys, while opening Photoshop (you will get a prompt confirming you want to delete the Adobe Photoshop settings folder).

I want to use multiple iPads as external monitors from a PC using the iPad VGA adapter (wired)

I want to send a VGA signal to a couple of iPads using them as monitors. I currently use a pair of regular 13" VGA 1024x768 lcd monitors looping thru an LCD projector displaying the same signal sent to the projector.
I want to use the iPad VGA adapter and WIRE them in just like a convention LCD monitor. Yes there are apps like air display and others but they don't allow cloning and have latency issues and must be networked. I need an app to use the VGA adapter and actually wire them in using a VGA signal from my existing VGA distrubution amp.
The size of the iPad is perfect for my application however I cannot find an app to let me send a signal into the iPad via VGA adapter.
Any ideas?
thanks,
the Sherm

http://www.shapeservices.com/en/products/details.php?product=idisplay&platform=i phone
Cool ... takes on all of the complex-ip-aliasing to turn the Mac into the center wi-fi a screen share netork

DreamColor Monitor from PC via VGA: Color-Space & Settings?

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