HDV direct to ProRes LT

Now the capture to ProRes bug as been fixed and clips have a file type (ProApplicationsUpdate2010-01), I figured Log & Capture to LT would now work - wrong!
Am I missing something? Despite setting sequence compressor to PR LT, clips are still captured from my XHG-1 direct to 'full' ProRes - am I missing something or is it broken?
Nick.

It seems bizarre that one of the most touted features of FCP 7 is actually so hard to utilise.
I isn't hard...you are just trying to make FCP do something it isn't designed to do. ProRes 422...yes. LT...no.
This is not even mentioned in the manual
Yes, it is.
http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflows/in dex.html#chapter=2%26section=4%26tasks=true
Back to MPEG Streamclip it is then...
Why? That is for TAPELESS formats...not tape. OH, to capture ProRes 422, then convert to LT, taking up lots of space, then deleting the ProRes 422? That's pretty convoluted, and time consuming.
And David, since you are shooting with the HPX-170 (right? Not the HMC150), the only import option you have is DVCPRO HD, since DVCPRO HD P2 doesn't need to be converted for editing. It doesn't take up that much that more room than ProRes LT.
1080i60
ProRes LT = 53GB/hour
DVCPRO HD = 60GB/hour
And since you can't convert while you import, you'd have to import, then transcode...taking up more space than if you just stayed native.
Shane

Similar Messages

Capture HDV directly to Powerbook

I would like to capture on set with a powerbook from a JVC HD 100. I have set the video settings on HDV for capture and device control. I see the image on the log and capture window BUT if i hit the "now" button, it just capture one frame and that's it. Are my settings wrong? What can i do?
Also i really would like to capture directly to prores but when i select the HDV-Prores in the capture setting, it doesn't work.
Any help is welcome.

There are some much-discussed issues with JVC HDV and Final Cut; it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to, and it often seems to vary from one individual system to another. I, personally, can only get my JVC HDV to capture properly about 20% of the time. I have scoured the forum for answers, and have set capture and device control to every possible combination. Sometimes different ones work, there's no rhyme or reason to it.
I highly recommend using Quicktime Pro to capture live video from your camera. If you set the QT video recording prefs to your camera (which it will see if you are powered up and plugged into Firewire) and set quality to 'Native' resolution, it will detect what it's getting and capture straight HDV, which you can then convert to Pro Res or anything else for editing.

Is there a Sony HDV 108050i to ProRes 108050i codec?

Hello all:
I'm having a busy day on the forum.
So here's the deal:
I have a Sony HDV-Z1U camcorder. I want to shoot in HDV 108050i (PAL) and I want to edit in ProRes 108050i.
The thing is I can't find a codec that will let me encode/capture HDV to (Sony) ProRes 50i. I can only find a codec to encode/capture at 60i.
Am I missing something?
Thanks...
A
Message was edited by: Adrian Smith4

the Panasonic GH1 can record both in AVCHD and MJPEG. With the hacked firmware the MJPEG datarate is currently running around 70mbit/s, which can handle a smooth gradient over about 14 stops. MJPEG is a contained video file that QuickTime can play, directly out of the camera, however to edit it, FCE needs to convert it to AIC, and this process degrades the shadow detail, and gradients break up.
But even with the AVCHD, currently running around 30mbit/s, and doing simple shots like of a live concert, I can see the same separation in gradients after conversion that are not present beforehand.
is that better? I am now also a bit puzzled by one of the AVCHD archives seeming to be damaged, as FCE says it has an "invalid directory structure".
t

Which video cameras directly record ProRes?

I've gotten very used to recording directly to ProRes while tethered.
I'd like to find a CCD (to avoid rolling shutter) camera that records ProRes 422 directly at 1920 x 1080, and is not interpolated up from some lesser resolution sensors.
Or, is the solution to just find the best camera I can afford, and record tethered to something like the AJA KiPro (which would certainly reduce the $$ available for a camera)

Yes, I'd noticed that plug-in before, and I do use After Effects.
They ran a 2 for 1 pricing a little while back. I sent them an email and never got a response.
Would be interesting to find some independent reviews - and figure out which cameras it would work well with.
I'd expect there's quite a bit of difference in the CMOS sensors, and the annoying thing is that there's no reason they could not build a CMOS sensor that did not have this problem (except for increased power and expense issues).
I believe there's extensive discussion on the Synth Eyes forum about rolling shutter (as their 3d motion tracking gets thrown off by it).
http://www.ssontech.com/
http://ssontech.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=478

HDV: Rendering in ProRes or not ?

My project was shooted with a Sony Z1 camera in NTSC. I am planning to capture in HDV.
I `ve read various articles on the HD workflow like Ken Stone`s one on the subject.
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/hdv_timeline_to_sddvd.html
Also, in this thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8222386&#8222386
Ian R. Brown indicates:
The best way I found after extensive testing was to export the finished HDV >project directly to Compressor for encoding and burn in either DVDSP or Toast.
It's also the quickest way. I experimented with ProRes but apart from taking >considerably longer I did not see any improvement in quality.
My output is a SD DVD. My project has fades and fades in and out, very minor color corrections or even none, slow motions but no other effects.
Should I render in ProRes or not? What will be the benefits?
Thanks.

I've used the HDV workflow, and the Pro Res workflow, and both finish just fine to SD DVD. What was a pain for me using my JVC HDVcam and Deck was the strange interruptions in capturing using the 720p HDV settings. The clips would be broken into many small clips, sometimes right in the middle of a scene with a few frames not being captured. I've found that I get more continuity using the pro res 422 capture, but you don't get the capture control that you get with HDV capture. I can't tell a difference between the two codecs on a 47 inch HD TV.
Hope this helps.
Matt

Should I xfer HDV 1440x1080i to ProRes 1440x1080p for editing and internet?

Hello:
I still get a bit confused about Pro Res, etc. So if anyone can point me in the right direction on this I'd be thankful.
I shot HDV video at 1440 x 1080i (interlaced) as that's the format my old-ish Sony HVR-Z1U (already shot, looks great - that's the camera I had so no lectures).
My question is should I transfer it to ProRes 1440 x 1080p (progressive) for editing and later encoding as h264 video for the web? Is there any advantage to doing this and if so at what stage should I do it?
Should I do before the edit? After the edit (and before the h264 encode)? Or is it necessary to do it all?
Final output is internet only.
Thanks in advance for any help or pointers

Good information. Many thanks.
On the contradictory element... I have heard (and occasionally practiced) that bringing in the video from tape as ProRes speeds up the editing process (doesn't take so long to render, etc.). I'm all for keeping things as simple as possible and keeping things native would be best - but don't you find it takes up more drive space and takes longer to render?
My project will be 20 mins in length when completed, and does involve some green screen chroma keying - so I'm up for anything that does not need constant re-rendering (which has been an issue when working with native/uncompressed HDV video).
Thanks again.
A

Export HDV rendered as ProRes 422?

I've searched the forum and can't find this topic specifically addressed, so here goes a new question.
Sequence is HDV (1080i60) which is set to render ProRes 422 (there's a reason for that, below as a note).
It's quite a long sequence (an hour and 20 minutes) with almost everything color corrected (just the FCP color corrector). So when I finally rendered "all", it took its own sweet time basically rendering everything. I checked the render files, and sure enough, they are ProRes 422, 1440x1080i as expected.
When I go to export, if I use "current setting" (not self contained) it writes everything again as an HDV file (kind of expect that) and doesn't use any of those costly (time and space) reference files; if I specify ProRes 422 like the render files (not self contained), is dutifully writes new files as well.
Is there any way to export this as a "reference" movie and have it use the render files it's already spent a bunch of time making? Either export takes about as much time to do as that rendering did originally on my G5 2.5 Quad: about 4 hours or more. Not to mention doubling the disk space requirement.
Note: the reason I used ProRes 422 rendering was that if I render in HDV (what I usually do), there are severe quality problems with parts of the movie; it seems that keyframed scaling and cropping cause a problem with HDV when it renders. INterestingly, the preview is fine, and ProRes 422 rendering is fine. and when I say quality problems, I mean extreme blockiness: like 16x16 blocks: it's awful and I think it is a bug (which I asked about here some time ago and go zero answers).
Eddie O
Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates
Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates

Everything that has already been rendered (prores 422) wants to get rendered again. I haven't determined what happens if I go ahead and let that render take place and then export from the ProRes 422 time line since the render takes a long time. Remember that the only reason that I need to do all of this is because if I render in the HDV time line using the sequence codec, I get problems that are there even if Quicktime opens the HDV render files. It's kind of a serious bug in FCP 6.0.2 which has not been addressed (I have sent it in as "feedback" some time ago).
I edit in HDV because it is fast enough for me and I don't "conform" (that is, render) until the end when I about 95% sure I'm done. So I use only 13GB/hour instead of about 50GB/hour. There are only a couple of places where I need > 1 stream (transitions between camera shots, a very few picture in picture effects).
I guess maybe the work flow for me (given my preference to save disk space for now) will be to edit in HDV until I get what I want, and then instead of "conforming," copy the sequence to a ProRes 422 time line and let that render. Hopefully, if I export that as a "reference" movie, it will use the render files as the reference files.
Thanks,
Eddie O
Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates

Transfer hdv directly to a dvd from camera

I read that Imovie won't allow the one step transfer with HDV. Is there a way I can do it in FCE without having to download all the footage in to the computer?
Thanks for any help!

No way.
You have to capture the footage to FCE before you can move it on to iDVD etc.
The only way you can do a direct transfer is if you have a domestic DVD recorder but you will have to make a standard definition DVD.

MY o MY! HDV capture to ProRes over firewire!!!!

Man, I thought it was impossible, but apparently not... 6.0.2? added this feature?
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/poisson_chris/hdv-prores.php
Gonna hurt those Intensity sales I'll wager, and I'll bet that the activity monitor on the CPU goes tilt during the process too...
Jerry

OK........ More good news Jerry
http://www.apple.com/support/releasenotes/en/FinalCut_Pro_6.0rn/
Sony HVR-V1 HDV Tape-Based Camcorder Support
Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 is compatible with the Sony HVR-V1 HDV camcorder, which is capable of recording 1080p24, 1080p25, and 1080p30 footage. You can capture natively or capture to either the Apple Intermediate Codec or the Apple ProRes 422 codec. You can also output back to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder using the Print to Video command.
To natively capture 1080p25 or 1080p30 footage, you should use the HDV 1080i50 and HDV 1080i60 Easy Setups, respectively. Your footage will retain its progressive scanning even though it will be stored in an interlaced format. You can capture 1080p24 footage using the 1080i60 Easy Setup, but your captured footage will retain 3:2 pull-down in this case.
For transcoded capture of 1080p24 footage, 3:2 pull-down is removed during transcoding, resulting in footage stored in the 1080p24 Apple Intermediate Codec format or the 1080p24 Apple ProRes 422 codec format. You can also capture 1080p25 and 1080p30 footage to either format, although Easy Setups are not included for these formats. In these cases, your captured footage is stored in the 1080p25 or 1080p30 Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec format.
Here are the recommended workflows for capturing from and outputting to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder with Final Cut Pro 6.0.2:
24p/60i on tape: Capture to the 24p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 24p/60i mode.
25p/50i on tape: Capture to the 25p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 25p/50i mode.
30p/60i on tape: Capture to the 30p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 30p/60i mode.

Converting mixed HDV/XDCam to ProRes?

1. If I have HDV and XDCam EX on the same HDV timeline ... and do a Media Manager conversion to transform both codecs to create a new timeline that is all ProRes 422 ... will the XDCam be converted from XDCam or from HDV (given it is on an HDV timeline??)
This may seem like a dumb question. I'm not sure whether the media manager takes it cue from the actual orginal media, or from the sequence settings of the timeline?
2. The HDV is 1080i and the XDCam is 1080p. I need the ProRes 422 to be 1080i ... there is a predominance of HDV in the movie, and it is headed for television anyhow. Do I have to worry about the XDCam being converted from progressive to interlaced in some way?
All ears,
Ben

Thank you Shane,
Both are the same frame rates. First thing I checked. Even though I cut my teeth in film, and still shoot as if I have film in the camera, and though I'll use 24fps if I know it's going to end up in a theatre, I have to confess I've often found 29.97 fps smoother ... and it still looks like film to me (despite the noise of the naysayers) as long as the lighting and the use of the lens is cinematic.
Seems like I'm always 'still' learning when it comes to digital processes though... which is made easier by you...
Much appreciated,
Ben

Recompress HDV Clips to ProRes

I have HDV clips (heaps of them, 1080i/50)and am thinking of recompressing to ProRes for output/rendering time-saving.
If I do this, does it convert the original captured clips from HDV to ProRes?
Am I right in thinking this would be a time saving method?
If I Choose only the clips in the Sequence to recompress, how does it manage to recompress sub-clips? Does it do the whole referenced clip?
Thanks in advance..

Hi MArk, I think you have your answre . I'd like to add that I have been using the HDV 1080/50i to PRORES422 as part of my workflow in FCS2 now because:
• it is much easier to work with than HDV in FCP iteself. This is subjective. Most scrubbing and editing in FCP 6 on this OCTO is smoother using the PRORESS sequqnce than leaving it as native HDV there are small overheads setting up and execting GOP editirs I understand.. especially in this case as HDV is MPEG2 LGOP).
• the CONFORMING to workflow and readiness for some distribution format (e.g. H.264 Multipass segmented transcode ) is demonstrably much faster in COMPRESSOR from APPLE PRORESS than HDV. Note I use QMASTER with VIRTUAL CLUSTERS on this OCTO.
My workflow is simply either to:
• ingest the HDV as HDV1080i/50 and THEN use an FCP BATCH export to maek all the footage I want into PRORES422 1440x1080P or 1080i (use HQ if you want) .. or
• set UP INGESt to encode the HDV on the fly as it ingests the HDV.
From a quality perspective as any one who knows will tell you you WONT get any iprovement in the HDV 4:2:0 by making it proress.. but for me the WORFLOW is much better .. especially o this DUAL QUADCORe beaty.
FWIW.. I am today of all days collecting an Panasonic HVX-200 to go to DVCPROHD (720p/24/25 and 1080p/24/25) AWAY finally from HDV. I'm dumping my 16 month old SONY HVR-Z1P for this reason
that I want to work on PRORESS and have MORE COLOUR info at 422 and now I can really take advantage of bothe apple color.app and my colorista.
anyway I hope that FCP tip helps..
w

HDV exported as ProRes 422 produces 4:3 in iDVD?

AVCHD exported from FCP X as ProRes 422 works perfectly in iDVD producing a 16:9 DVD.
HDV doesn't, even though QT Player plays it perfectly.
The odd thing is that 4 years ago, using legacy FCP my exported HDV videos had no problems being recognised as 16:9 by iDVD.
So why are FCP X produced HDV videos not recognised as 16:9?
P.S. I know that iDVD never recognised DV in the 16:9 format but it always worked with HDV.
Incidentally, the old trick of opening it in QT Pro and changing the frame size to 1024 x 576 does not work!

The AVCHD was actually 50p footage in a 25p project exported as ProRes via Share>Export Media.
Worked perfectly in iDVD.
The HDV was standard 1440 x 1080 treated just the same and came out as 4:3 in iDVD which I suppose is what it is when the pixels are square.
I have found a workaround/solution.
Make a ProRes 422 custom preset in Compressor specifying a frame size of 1920 x 1080.
Works perfectly and iDVD sees it correctly as 16:9.
Only downside is that converting using the custom preset takes at least twice as long.
Regarding the weird moire pattern when using FCP 7, I have just exported the clips as ProRes 422 1920 x 1080 and they appear normal.
The moire pattern appeared when I exported the clips as native HDV, something I always did years go with no problems.
So I have found workarounds but not solutions.

Can Apple tools convert 1080 (60i) HDV to 24p ProRes well?

Folks, I have video that's HDV (1440x1080) at 60i that I need to convert to 24p. I have not been able to successfully do this transcode and have smooth result.
Are any of the Apple tools up for this task or do I need to look elsewhere for third party tools? I've tries several variations of compressor settings to see if I can get smooth playback, but instead the results are choppy and occasionally smooth for a moment.
Thanks.

If you have to mix the footage, you might try adding pulldown to the 24P footage to make it run at 30. I believe Graeme's Standards converter will add pulldown - or Shake. Then you can cut the 30fps footage into a 60i timeline...
As to dealing with HDV native timeline - maybe you should edit in a AIC timeline?
Patrick

FCP 6.0.1 Running and previewing extremly slow

Ever since I upgraded to 6.0.1 FCP is running extremly slow.
In my current project, I brought in a HDV QT.mov that needed to be Chroma Keyed and color adjusted. Previewing the chroma keyed file looks horrible (all jagged) unless I render it. That takes time. Then I added a piece of stock DV footage under that, blurred the background and it played back like crap until I rendered it. More time. And so on.
I can't make any adjustment and see how it looks without rendering.
When I was working in 5.1 FCP I was able to add all type of files and zip right through them pretty much. Now I can't seem to get my settings right or something...so as I apply different effects or filters I can never see on the fly how it looks without rendering it first. Then of course...if it's not right...I tweak it again but can't see how that looks until I render it again.
All my video files resides on a RAID that I created from 2 of my internal drives and it also is my scratch & render disk.
It's eating my lunch on production time.
Any suggestions Please.

You could try setting the render in the sequences you work with to ProRes. Found in that sequence setting's video processing tab.
But the real fix is to not work in HDV at all. If you have an Intel mac, a capture card like the Kona LHe card will transcode your HDV directly to ProRes... or AJA's Io HD (at the high end of this workflow) will transcode the HDV to ProRes on board the box itself... The Io will take your HDMI signal directly from the camera and transcode it to anything. It starts shipping any day now.
You're a brave soul attempting chroma keys with HDV... they are nigh on impossible to look good. But ProRes will make the rendering times go way down, and give you more real time playback of effects.
Jerry

ProRes vs HDV, actual advantages?

We have been capturing and editing in HDV. Alot of heavy compositing, motion work, etc. We have been setting the render control to ProRes while working within an HDV timeline.
I have seen a lot of people who capture ProRes right off the bat, and do all their work in ProRes. There are claims that you get better effect handling and editing efficiency by staying in ProRes.
Have there actually been any tests out there that prove I should work entirely in ProRes? rather than just render my HDV timeline as ProRes?
There are so many opinions out there that it is hard to decide what I should do. I have done tests with ProRes vs HDV and I am not noticing drastic differences in working with the two. Yet, when I read on the boards, there are tons of people saying ProRes yields better effects and render times.
I understand the technical issues as to why ProRes is the better format for post-production (long gop, i-frames, etc etc)....but I'm just not actually seeing much of a difference while working between the two formats!
Can anybody convince me with some facts as to why I should work in ProRes as opposed to a ProRes rendered HDV timeline?

I switched totally from HDV to ProRes last year, including even switching to AVCHD cameras (I had a Sony V1U, and now have two Panasonic HMC-150s).
The advantages for me were huge. When shooting HDV on tape, I almost never had a complete one hour MiniDV tape without at least 1 or 2 dropouts. Shooting AVCHD to SDHC cards, I've completed hundreds of hours of footage and never had a single frame dropped.
I log and transfer to FCP using Pro Res right from the start. No waiting for 'Conforming HDV'. I can put my footage on a timeline and start editing right away; much faster and smoother throughout the whole process.
The only disadvantage I can see to ProRes are larger files, but as mentioned above, storage is cheap these days.
I'm not suggesting you should go as far as switching your entire acquisition format (cameras, etc.), but I would at least try capturing your HDV footage as ProRes for one short project, and see if you notice any differences in speed and/or smoother workflow while editing and rendering, etc.

HDV direct to ProRes LT

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