Match EQ, space designer and IRs

Hi, I encounter a problem with Logic studio 9 when trying to make an IR out of the differences between a raw guitar amp (mine) signal and an amp/cab/mic signal (not mine ). I used Match EQ to copy the second signal, it sounds very well. Then I did two pink noise .wav files, with and without the previous Match EQ settings. I used them to decode an IR with space designer, but the result sounds like a 50% wet IR. Did I miss anything ?

could you cobble something together? Maybe use aux objects set up with the same SD effect types. Send out appropriate levels of fx to each of the aux objects which will correspond to and output wet only signal to the bus/output objects carrying the surround components. I am not sat at my studio mac right now, so I can't think and speak specifically, but I remember trying something like this in an earlier version with some degree of success on a quadruphonic set up. Still a heath robinson way of doing something that should be a standard plugin in this day and age.

Similar Messages

I am having trouble using reverb of any kind; it does not sound natural, but rather "pixilated." Does anyone have any ideas for a solution? I have used Silververb and Space Designer and am having the same problem...

I am using Logic Pro 9 with two MXL 990 microphones in my piano and a Rode NT1A for vocals. I have tried recording with added reverb and keeping getting not a natural reverb sound, but a rather "pixilated" one that does not sound natural. Does anyone have any ideas on how to solve this issue? I have tried using Silververb and Space Designer, and both result in the same problems. Thank you!

This is asking for the impossible! It does not sound natural because maybe it isn't and in judging so whats your reference anyway. If you are in dire need of some natural sounding room you can go and record it yourself. But even then, the chances that it sounds like you imagined it, are very slim.
There are very decent sounding reverberation plugins, based on artificial reverb generators or convolution-style, the last one is said to sound more 'natural' then the first one. Be it as it maybe, it really is like cooking food. You got all the ingredients for this delicious taste at hand and believe it or not to reach a satisfying result this is not enough, because if you do not mix the ingredients in the right proportion you will end up with a different dish you thought you'll get. This is exactly the same when one would mix audio, I dare say.
So treat yourself to some good ingredients and the rest is up to you, namely: taste and experience!
And looking at some of my past music productions I always find the same plugins for the 'ambient' task:
Altiverb by Audio Ease when I have acoustic ensembles (classical music mostly), the Sony Oxford Reverb in studio productions, Bricasti when I have to deal with drums and MMultiBandReverb from MeldaProduction for all-round stuff. Thats the base I start from, after that I can end up with dozen Reverb plugins which basically all are doing the same thing but just in a tiny different way.

Space Designer and surround

I can't seem to turn up any info on this so...
Does Space Designer support surround? Are there any surround IRs included?
Thanks.
JP

could you cobble something together? Maybe use aux objects set up with the same SD effect types. Send out appropriate levels of fx to each of the aux objects which will correspond to and output wet only signal to the bus/output objects carrying the surround components. I am not sat at my studio mac right now, so I can't think and speak specifically, but I remember trying something like this in an earlier version with some degree of success on a quadruphonic set up. Still a heath robinson way of doing something that should be a standard plugin in this day and age.

Space designer and Reverb with EWQL Goliath samples

I'm currently using Logic 9 for sequencing.
Alot of the samples I use in recording are from EW-QL Goliath as a plugin for Logic.
Given the 'Play' engine has a reverb facility and other kinds of articulations and effects you can apply is there much use to using Space designer in Logic? I'm not sure if Play Engines is vastly superior or not.
Would it be better to simply set up the reverb within the Play engine and then record to in Logic OR record an unaltered sample (e.g. violin) from Play and then add reverb using space designer/ Logic's other reverb plugins?
Perhaps using them both in conjunction even?
I am writing alot of orchestral music at the moment so trying to decide on how to apply reverb to my tracks at the moment.
Thanks.

This is asking for the impossible! It does not sound natural because maybe it isn't and in judging so whats your reference anyway. If you are in dire need of some natural sounding room you can go and record it yourself. But even then, the chances that it sounds like you imagined it, are very slim.
There are very decent sounding reverberation plugins, based on artificial reverb generators or convolution-style, the last one is said to sound more 'natural' then the first one. Be it as it maybe, it really is like cooking food. You got all the ingredients for this delicious taste at hand and believe it or not to reach a satisfying result this is not enough, because if you do not mix the ingredients in the right proportion you will end up with a different dish you thought you'll get. This is exactly the same when one would mix audio, I dare say.
So treat yourself to some good ingredients and the rest is up to you, namely: taste and experience!
And looking at some of my past music productions I always find the same plugins for the 'ambient' task:
Altiverb by Audio Ease when I have acoustic ensembles (classical music mostly), the Sony Oxford Reverb in studio productions, Bricasti when I have to deal with drums and MMultiBandReverb from MeldaProduction for all-round stuff. Thats the base I start from, after that I can end up with dozen Reverb plugins which basically all are doing the same thing but just in a tiny different way.

Do you REALLY need Space Designer and all those extra plugins/?

My quest to for answers to determine what machine (iMac or Mac Pro) to purchase for running Logic keeps producing more questions. There is so much talk in this forum about using Space Designers and other effects and plug ins (and all sorts of other hardware or software) additional to Logic. Is there something lacking in Logic's effects that necessitates Space Designers etc. or is this mostly a matter of preference, people looking for more precise/ extensive types of effects? I was hoping to utilize Logic for most of my drum, bass and synth sounds, most if not all of my reverbs and effects, and all of my mixing and mastering needs. I'd like to hear from people doing it this way-- using mostly Logic's sounds, effects and capabiliters, and if they think they are sufficient. For those who go with additional effects/plug ins, I'd like to know why -- do you feel Logic's effects are inadequate, or do you just prefer the sound of the addition plug ins?

in terms of what you get to start creating music with right off the bat, logic pro really is the most complete offer out there. it's basically like buying the equivalent of a sequencer, a mixer, a multitrack recorder, a rack of synths, samplers and drum machines, and a rack of effects, all at the same time.
the stuff it comes with right in the box varies from perfectly usable to world-class in terms of quality and creative potential.
you'll have your work cut out for you just getting up to speed on all the tools in logic in the first instance.. I don't think it's the best idea to start deciding about what 3rd party stuff you might want until you start getting your head around the gear in logic first. unless you have some specific plug ins or synths in mind that you're already familiar with and really want, get into logic first and then later go shopping for extra stuff that suits your tastes and the music that you make.
it's actually quite hilarious that in this day and age, you can easily buy, download and install some of the best sounding instruments and effects available anywhere, all in the space of a few minutes, with your trusty credit card. I can't tell you how much I like the fact that I never have to set foot in a music gear store hardly ever anymore. no more having to deal with incompetent (and stoned) frustrated guitar heros trying to sell me some rubbish from alesis that is on sale. not to mention the fact that since things went all plug-in, you basically get to chop a zero off the end of the price of what things used to cost.
apart from, uh, global warming, these are great times..

Bug with Space Designer EQ and Filter Envelope?

In Logic Pro X I've noticed the window below the IR waveform only shows the volume envelope information. The EQ window does not appear making it impossible to use EQ. Anyone else notice this?

Jup, I checked it out and indeed doesn't happen when you startup a project and open the Space Designer for the first time. When you close Space Designer and open it again, the bug apears. And in various ways too. Sometimes the EQ window stays fixed, eventhough I click Filter Env. Sometimes the Filter Env stays fixed, eventhough I click reverse or EQ etc.
I actually just called apple support on this. The guy from the servicedesk was actually very helpfull. He's checking if the problem still exists in 10.0.4 (which will be released soon I think?). He's going to call me back in a few minutes. I think he was able to reproduce it too, so we are definately not alone on this
Hopefully it's fixed in 10.0.4 or maybe he can at least report this bug directly to the Logic developers. I'll keep you posted!

Space Designer--no mode set

I'm suddenly having problems with Space Designer and importing IRs. I've been using some for a while (the excellent Speakers and Telephones set), and they've always worked fine. Now when I load them the Space Des window says "no mode set" and no sound comes out. Sometimes it does say "mono" or "stereo" but still no sound comes out. The Logic IRs work fine. Any ideas?
Thanks,
-Jeff

Hi Jeff,
I recently had a problem on a client's machine where all his Space Designer IRs apparently went AWOL. I knew where they were but Logic didn't. I fixed it by putting an alias in:
Macintosh HD > Library > Application Support > Logic
which pointed to the location where the IRs were hiding. That fixed it, though I still don't know what caused it in the first place. I put that down to aliens abducting some of my electrons. A happening more common than the sceptics believe...
Pete

Space Designer pre-sets missing

I recently upgraded to Logic 8 and it seems more than half of my Space Designer factory pre-sets are missing. Is there any way i can get them back without re-installing everything?

Sure you can cascas12,here goes from the first Logic-Pro7 Disk or even in opening a L.P. session take the setting from S.P. Space-Designer and drop them onto the desk-top and them place them back into L.P.8 into the folder with the effect that you want back into S.p.
Have fun,
Fr.BlayZay.

EXS24 - Space Designer Conflict?

Hi
I get the following error, and a lot of crackling whenever I run an EXS24 instance through Space Designer, and this is either direct or using a Bus. The sample rate will vary slightly but the error is still the same:
Error while trying to synchronize Audio and MIDI
Sample rate 42701 Recognized.
Check conflict between Logic Pro and External device.
Please Help.

You might have a corrupted song file. Possibly your autoload as well. Try trashing logic prefs and rebuilding you autoload. Also, repair permissions and maybe even try updating the prebinding in the terminal. Another possibility could be a conflict with the driver of the Audiowerk8, unlikely, but possible.

Space Designer -- none of the presets are working! they are grayed out

I am using a dual core iMac with logic 8 totally updated version but I've been having this problem with space designer and possibly a couple of the other logic played in effects. When I tried to pull up a preset it goes up a search for box I'm going to applications support/logic/played in settings and I tried to select the desired preset that it is asking for and I find that it is there but it is grayed out and it does not load up. Presently I can only use the default effect. Does anyone know how to fix this? This is frustrating!
Thanks much!
Help!

That is correct your 4th gen iPod can't run any newer then 6.1.6
If you wish use apps that require iOS 8 then you need a newer iPod that is capable of running it

Logic freezes while loading Space Designer presets

Logic freezes while loading Space Designer presets when I am working on my template and songs. If I create 1 track in a new empty project there is no problem with Space designer.

And with Logic 8, I am stumped as to how to find all of my samples and virtual instruments that I used in Logic 7...Where is the "folder" that I drag my Sampler Folder alias into? Any clues?

Using Space Designer from Soundtrax Pro while in Logic Express

I have logic epress on my powerbook G4 that doesn't have the Space Designer effects plugin. On my imac G5 I have Final Cut Pro wich includes the Space Designer plug-in. If I install logic express on my imac, will I be able to use the Space Designer plugin from Final Cut Pro?

Short answer: maybe.
Long answer: it will require using something like JackOSX or sending audio through a network or spare pair of i/o on your soundcard, out of LE, into Soundtrack Pro and Space Designer, and then back into LE.
This may result in considerable latency (which is really just pre-delay anyway, so no biggie) and may or may not work (i.e. don't hunt me down if it doesn't work!).
SD will not show up in LE if they are installed on the same machine.

Using Space Designer/Automation/Exciter/channel EQ / or Plug-in ?

Hi - I'm creating a piece which has piano (midi-keyboard) (Ivory ), Jam Pack solo flutes + English Horn, and EXS pop strings as background. There's also 1 min. of Voice Over (Audio) at the beginning. The music is polyphonic.
I'd like the final sound to be so that the solo woodwind instruments- and the piano -'stand out' from the mass of sound; a bit like the feeling of embossed note-paper, or having a halo of light around the head in religious paintings, but not as a really separate solo + accompaniment.
The piece should sound very 'immediate' and not like an ensemble playing far away in a concert hall. I've tweaked the piano sound in Ivory, to a very warm- though not fuzzy- one and will do the same for the flutes/English Horn, in Logic.
It seems that I could
1) use automation to alter the dynamics
2) use different *reverb settings* for each instrument - I like *Space Designer* and chose one: Warm Organ Cabinet with a very short reverb time (0.4s). But then I felt that a) I'd actually like a little longer reverb b) when I tried out other reverb settings the original instrumental sound changed.
3) Reading the Logic Manual, I wondered if the Exciter was suitable for this.
4) or should I use the *Channel EQ* ?
Logic has so many seeming possibilities, but perhaps there's much simpler way- an effect or Plug-In which I don't know about.
Please please pass on some ideas. I'm really enjoying the experimenting but am getting bogged down.
Thanks - as always,
Kay.

Hi Kay,
Stuff you might like to mess™ with, is the binaural panning function. You can both put things up front, to the back, above, below etc etc. Try the *Planar Mode* and its' (extra) parameters.
Clickhold the output slot of the track you want to use BiP on.
This menu appears, choose binaural:
The panpot changes in a binaural panner. If you doubleclick the knoblet, you get a floating window:
If you then click the triangle bottom right, you get some extra parameters to set:
Needless to say you can automate all those parameters if you wanted to move sound around.
Binaural panning is more CPU-taxing (it is no different than a plugin) than LR panning though, so freezing BP'd audiotracks can help if the CPU's hit the red too often, even if the track has no (other) active inserts on it.
regards, Erik.

EMT 252, 250 and nonlin Space Designer IRs

Just got the latest Acousticas library. EMT252XL.
It's a whopper with about 2000 irs, incl. the 252 with 250 and nonlin programs.
I really like the detail put into this one. The frequency multipliers are there as well, making it a breeze controlling the low end of the reverb.
I wish Apple would update Space Designer's IR browser to be a little more modern. Pulling the load menu is not very convenient when dealing with so many impulses.
I remember writing Acousticas after getting their first library. I asked them if they could provide comparison between the IRs and the hardware. Guess others did the same. This time they put up a video blind test and IMO it is really hard to distinguish which is the hardware and which is the IR.
Links to blind test and other videos
http://www.acousticas.net/World/Videos/Acousticas/EMT252/PianoDemo252.mov
http://www.acousticas.net

I have these IR's too and they're great.
Although I've run into a bug using them with Space Designer -- the bug appears to be Logic's fault, not the Acoustica IR's, which run fine in other convolvers like Altiverb and waves IR-1.
When I load the EMT 252/250 IR's into Space Designer, instead of a 3 or 4 second impulse, I get a .3 or .4 second impulse. Using the "show IR in Finder" triangle on Space Designer reveals that Logic is loading the wrong IR files. I've been over this with the folks at Acousticas, who are very helpful.
Did a reinstall, trashed some prefs and cache files, and Space Designer still insists on loading the wrong files. Yet another bug I assume Apple will turn a deaf ear to.
Just something to watch for. In the meantime, I'm lucky that I can still use Altiverb or Waves to hear these great IR's.
T

Impulse Response editing - Do it the right way: IRs for Space Designer

Dear fellow board members,
after doing several research on this topic and many attempts to match some Impulse Responses I finally have to admit, that a little help or insight would be much appreciated. Most of the (Beamsonic) IRs, especially the Studer and Ampeg IRs, seem to have overlength (≈ 6 sec.) and some do have "silence" at the very beginning (see picture below).
I would be thankful for a helping hand explaining me, which part of this IR is of relevant importance: Do I need the "silence" tail at the end? What should I take care of when editing such IRs as the pictured one? Would only the marked yellow area be of importance? Get rid of the red areas (beginning & end)?
As many of the IRs I do have correspond to the image above, I have to go through heavy manual editing and before doing so, your help would be much appreciated.
Does anybody have gone through this before and would like to exchange some of his material for the Space Designer (IRs + corresponding Presets)? I am looking for: EMT 250, Studer A80 Tape, other Tape Sats as well, Ampeg, Westlake Studio D, other useful top quality IRs as well.
For now, many thanks in advance for sharing interest
Vic.
Mac OS X (10.3.8)

1. You maybe want to comment on what is considered to be the
"technical right way" to achieve DAW Tape Saturation via IRs, i.e.
what makes sense and what not?
Really, there is no technical right way - all we are doing is altering our recorded audio in a way that we like - it will vary depending on your tools, your tastes, the material, the artistic intent etc...
a - Insert the Convolution Reverb right on the Audio Channel
itself with Pre/Post-Compression/EQing, etc.
I will do this if I want to process an individual channel for colour. Remember to set the effect to 100% wet.
b - Send audio to a Convolution Reverb Bus (and share w/multiple
audio channels), loss of quality, etc?
You're just sending a bunch of channels - in convolution terms, the results as far as I know will be the same if you process 10 channels indivdually and sum them, compared to if you sum the 10 channels then convolute them. Remember, convolution is a static process in most tools, including Space Designer.
How would you judge the value of using "Impulse Responses"
in comparison to "Plug-Ins"?
Well, I don't think anyone's done a tape saturation plugin properly yet. I'm not an expert in this field, but had some interesting discussions with one of the Sonalksis developers over on KVR who is heavily researching into tape saturation (he's doing a doctorate in the subject) and he thinks that it is possible to do a decent tape saturation plugin - not easy by a long stretch, but possible, so I'm sure we will eventually see decent plugs appearing.
Having said that, I'm not actually a huge fan of the tape sound anyway - I like the impulses for that colour if I need it, but I certainly don't run everything through it. I don't really like the smeared transients, at least on my "less natural" pieces. Rock music (as an example) may well work better.
The plugins that do saturation in varying amounts are a mixed bag in my opinion. A lot of people love VintageWarmer, but I'm not that keen on it (again, I'm not an "expert" by a long stretch, these are just my personal opinions).
I've had some great results using Guitar Amp Pro for saturation and warming (we're talking subtle stuff here) on drums and guitars.
There are a bunch of other plugs too, but none that I have used to tape saturation. DUY's tape does saturation, but not really accurate tape simulation *from what I have heard* - I haven't used it personally myself. Charles Dye seems to like it, anyway!
. Finally: Did anybody experiance differences in quality when
comparing Convolution Reverbs (i.e. SD vs Altiverb vs Waves) in
processing the same IR?
In general, no. Mathmatical convolution is afaiu a mathmatically "perfect" process, much like the adding of audio signals in the digital realm. As long as you know how to do the maths correctly, there should be no difference, given the same IR (it's the IR that really determines the quality of the output).
Of course, different plugs implement things differently, and have different features, but by and large, the convolution engines these things use should be generally the same.
Again, I'm no expert and haven't done exhaustive testing or anything - this info comes from discussions I have and my understanding of these processes from a DSP point of view. Other may well be able to back up or debunk what I've said, so I'll leave the floor to them now...

Match EQ, space designer and IRs

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