Mixing HDV and AVCHD

I have a camera that captures in HDV but i am looking into purchasing a camera that captures in AVCHD.
Final Cut Express converts them to apple intermediate format but in order to edit in one sequence would this require additional transcoding??
Would i be able to use the HDV 1080i format when ingesting the AVCHD file?

As long as you shoot them in the same frame size, same frame rate, and edit them both in a 1440x1080i60 sequence then you won't have to render either of them. Editing them together should work fine as they've essentially been converted to Apple Intermediate Codec files which are indistinguishable.

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Ingesting HDV and AVCHD in same project - workflow?

Whats the workflow with ingesting HDV and AVCHD into same project? Im guessing convert both to 'Apple intermediate codec' i think this is straightforward for avchd as is in prefs pane of log and transfer, but how do i do this for hdv?
Also set the avchd to record at 1080i or does it not make much difference once captured / pro ressed up.?

Bring both in as ProRes. Much more processor efficient.

Mixing HDV and T1i Footage

I have a project and some is shot on a Sony FX1000 which is captured at 1080 60i and some is shot on a Canon T1i which is 720 30p. I wanted to mix these into a sequence and was wondering what the best way to do so was? Should I use something like MpegStreamclip to convert the HDV to 720 30p? Or maybe something like JES Deinterlacer? What are my best options? Thanks!

tried using your contact me on your website - it didn't work....

Mixing HDV and DVCPRO HD

I'm working on a project where the interviews were shot in HDV 1080i60, and most of the B-roll was shot in DVCPROHD 720p24 (but some in HDV 1080i60).
Ordinarily I'd choose to edit at the lesser resolution, but I'm thinking that since most of the material is 1080i60, that's the ideal sequence resolution and frame rate, even though this would involve uprezzing the 720p material slightly. I'm also thinking that the progressive material will look better in an interlaced sequence than vice-versa, and since the 720p material is DVCPRO HD, it ought to weather the uprez decently. Stop me if you disagree.
The next question is codec. My first thought was: edit in HDV, then swap out for a better codec (ProRes or DVCPRO HD) before final output. That seems better than the prospect of cross-coding everything to ProRes or something. Again, stop me if you disagree.
Thanks, everyone, for your input and helping me think through this...

Thanks X. Why not HQ? Too much disk space for no quality benefit?
Where do editors get to fire the director who didn't think through the post issues?
Seriously, I'm not complaining. This actually is not as bad as the one-hour show which was shot with five cameras: two XDCAM, one HDV, one three-chip DV and one one-chip DV...

Mixing HDV and DVCPRO HD footage in a timeline?

Can this be done in FCP 6?
Thanks.

But you would have to render one or the other depending what you sequence settings are.
Not with FCP 6 David. You can mix formats on the same timeline without rendering. That is the point of the mixed format timeline. BUT...he is right, eventually, before you output, you will have to render something. If your sequence settings are DVCPRO HD, then the HDV will have a light or dark green render bar above it. WOrkable for editing, but in the end you will have to render before you output.
Now mixing FRAME RATES...that is another story.
Shane

HDV or AVCHD editing = processor utilization = import/exp. quality loss

Hello,
my question about processability of HDV/AVCHD Movies with iMovie. I have learned that HDV and AVCHD files are transfered in the AIC format. That should mean editig a movie would be always in the AIC format and I assume no difference whether I come from HDV or AVCHD format it should be similar demanding to the core2duo processor except initial transcoding from H264 to AIC - is this right?. When I save a movie out of iMovie do I save it in AIC or in HDV/AVCHD? Is there a quality loss transferring a movie back and forth from/to HDV/AVCHD to AIC since HDV employs mpeg2 and AVCHD employs H264 which are both compressed formats? Practically does this also mean that AIC can work as a bridge to between both formats?
Thanks for your replies to my several questions!

I have cut/pasted this from another thread where I posted it following a question from a Canon HV20 owner. The info applies to all HDV and AVCHD cams though. Might help you decide.
This comes from www.camcorderinfo.com
Compression (7.0)
The Canon HV20 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $903) uses HDV compression, a very efficient MPEG-2 codec with a fixed data rate of 25Mbps, identical to the data rate of standard definition DV compression. HDV excels in capturing stunningly high-resolution video, but it is inferior to DV in terms of rendering motion realistically, due to its dependence on interframe compression. This means that at 1080i, only one in fifteen frames is a full-frame picture, while the intervening frames are compressed in relation to each full I frame. Interframe compression is much more efficient than intraframe compression, and allows HDV to squeeze a full 1920 x 1080 picture into a 25Mbps stream, recordable to inexpensive MiniDV tapes. DV uses intraframe compression, so each frame is a fully independent picture, allowing much better motion capture. DV also uses a superior 4:1:1 color space while HDV encodes via a truncated 4:2:0 color space.
The inherent weaknesses of HDV have led many networks to deem the format sub-standard for broadcast, but it is still the best high definition format available on the consumer camcorder market. Most consumers find the stunning resolution of HDV trumps the superior motion handling of DV. A professionally lit HDV interview (or any HDV shot without too much detail or motion) can look nearly as good as footage shot in a professional HD format on a $20,000 camera. AVCHD, a new HD format that uses H.264 compression was introduced in 2006 and compresses video even more aggressively than HDV. Our tests of Canon's UX1 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $729.95) and SR1 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $1119.99) last fall show that while AVCHD video is very sharp, it suffers from grain and artifacts much more than HDV compression. The wildcard in the consumer high definition arena is a new MPEG-2 format developed by JVC, the MPEG Transfer Stream codec, which appears for the first time in the Everio HD7 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $1529). MPEG Transport Stream compresses video at up to 30Mbps, and may rival or even outclass HDV compression.
Media (6.0)
Like other HDV camcorders, the Canon HV20 records to MiniDV cassettes, the same inexpensive and widely available format used by standard definition DV camcorders. MiniDV cassettes have a run time of 60 minutes in SP mode, but can hold up to 90 minutes of more compressed LP video. Unlike the DVD, memory card, and HDD formats, MiniDV tapes are linear media so moving clips to a PC from tape is a real-time process. For anyone serious about the quality of his or her video, HDV recorded to MiniDV cassette remains the best consumer HD option available. To date, consumer non-linear video formats do not support the highest-quality video compression codices for high definition (HDV) and standard definition (DV).

Do HDV or AVCHD keep track of Date/Time like miniDV?

Do HDV and AVCHD have the time and date stored like miniDV does? I've done some searching and read through the HDV article on wikipedia and don't see this mentioned.
Thanks.

Anyone with any more info on this? According to what Tominlowa says it looks like the date/time info is stored on the AVCHD camera either in the video file or accompanying index files. I wonder how this works with HDV? Maybe I should be keeping manual logs when I shoot footage so years from now I will know what the date of my footage is.
Thanks.

Mixing XDCAM and HDV?? Outputting to SD DVD...

Hi
Earlier this year we shot a documentary on a Sony PDW-F350L HD XDCam (great camera, stunning footage - 35Mbps). Working in FCP has been fine.
We're doing a follow up and budget and logistics dictate that we sadly can't use 350s again (where we're going, carrying 2 Z1s for example is going to be a lot easier). We're also on a fairly steep learning curve (being relatively new to FCP, Compressor etc).
So I'm looking at options. We know that there are significant differences between say a Z1 and a 350 but from my research so far and from some relatively simple testing mixing Z1 footage (native) and 350 footage on FCP, at least editing on the timeline doesn't seem like it's going to present any problems (although thoughts on that welcome).
The issue seems to be outputting. In the first instance we'll be outputting to SD DVD. Yes, that old gem...
Searching round various forums, it seems this problem (HDV - SD) is fairly universal. Solutions seem to range from not working in Native HDV (suggestions vary on the format to ingest in - AIC etc); outputting to different formats first (eg DVCPro HD) and then to MPEG-2; outputting the timeline to tape (DV), re-importing; using some thing like a Matrox MXO to output and others...
We're aware of the shortcoming of HDV and the compressed nature of the format and our expectations, given our kit are realistic. I've even tried putting some PD150 footage on the timeline but that's just not going to cut it.
So, I've got to put a kit list together by next week and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on:
1) Mixing XDCAM and HDV on the timeline and any gotchas we should watch out for.
but more importantly
2) Any suggested routes I can look at to get some reasonable output with these two formats on the timeline - particularly HDV (don't think we'll have time to look at the Matrox route right now).
Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Cheers

Thanks Andy, Michael
That's good input. From an editing point of view we seem to be ok. Although, Michael, I take your point and that's a good suggestion.
The main problem is the workflow to create a decent SD DVD without the artefacts caused by compression/motion etc in HDV (and to some extent XDCAM).
Have read the prores whitepaper at
http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/whitepapers/L342568A_ProResWP.pdf
And looked a little more into understanding GOP structures and it seems that ProRes will help in terms of editing.
The white paper seems to suggest that converting to ProRes, because it uses I frame–only encoding "Ensures consistent quality in every frame and no artifacts from complex motion. "
We'll try some tests but, does anyone know if this is true?
But it also seems that deinterlacing may solve some of the horrendous vertical edge rippling we're getting on the HDV footage when outputting to SD DVD - although if I'm honest I'm not sure how we achive that with our current setting.

Mixing HDV, DV, and Pictures, then exporting it all out

I have a mix of DV, HDV, and jpegs that I've put together in Premiere Pro.
The DV I upscaled using VDub to 1920x1280 (not the prettiest but no worse than it looked when I just let the tv scale it to 1080p. Actually, quite a bit better.)
Now it is time to export and I realized I wasn't sure what PAR I need to export to! My upscaled DV is 1, my pictures are obviously 1, but the other video is still 1.33.

Export to what?
Standard definition DVD? If so, you should have just edited in a SD project.
Blu-ray? Then export to MPEG2 Blu-ray at 1440X1080 using 1.33

Best "Capture" workflow for projects mixing HDV tape and XDCAM footage

I'm trying to determine the best workflow for projects that combine XDCAM and HDV footage.
I'd obviously do the editing in a project designed for XDCAM, as that's the higher quality footage,
and render the HDV clips in the XDCAM timeline...ending up with an XDCAM end product.
I'd use SONY'S XDCAM TRANSFER to get the clips into FCP.
My question concerns capturing the HDV footage in this scenario. I've never been able to get
the Log and Capture feature for HDV footage to work, unless I've created an HDV project and am capturing into that HDV project.
So, generally, I create an HDV project, open the log and capture utility which is now set to capture HDV, and then capture the footage. I then close that project and create a new project, designed for XDCAM footage. I use XDCAM Transfer to get the XDCAM footage into the project, and I import
the previously captured HDV footage into that browser and start editing, rendering the HDV in the XDCAM timeline.
My question...do I really have to open, what is essentially a "fake" HDV project just to capture that HDV footage? You don't seem to have the option of capturing HDV footage (out of a camera or HDV tape deck) directly into an XDCAM project. If I try to change the capture or audio video settings of the XDCAM project to HDV, you get messages saying you can't do it.
Is there something I'm missing or a more streamlined way of doing this?
Thanks in advance for any input.

No need to jump through these hoops. Just set yourself up with a universal Easy Setup that will handle both. Choose your regular XDCAM HD Easy Setup then open the Audio / Video Settings window and change the Capture Preset to "HDV" and the Device Control Preset to "HDV Firewire" ... then click the "Create Easy Setup" button and save it for recall whenever needed.
Regarding the overall workflow, I'd seriously question the idea of creating XDCAM HD masters. No real benefit to that unless you need to export to XDCAM HD. Much better would be export your final master as Apple ProRes 422.
Best
Andy

Mixing interlaced and progressive HDV footage?

Is anyone mixing interlaced and progressive footage on a FCP 5 timeline? Would you set the timeline up for progressive or interlaced settings? Would there be any loss in quality? I'm specifically wondering how well the true progressive of the JVC HD100 would combine with the "faux" progressive of the Canon A1.

I was hoping someone else would jump in with answers, because I am not familiar with either camera, and can't give you a definite answer, but I would hazard a guess that if you set both cameras to a 1/30th shutter, you would be able to mix the footage, but it would be very difficult to shoot, because it is such a slow shutter.
Other routes, would be converting the footage using compressors advanced formats conversion, and other tricks on the timeline, with removing fields and blending etc.
I think generally though, if you were going to intercut footage, you would notice it, at some level.
Some tests would help you enormously, as would renting a second camera identical to the first.
Good luck - post back with what worked and what didn't.

New camera: HDV or AVCHD??

Hi
b Q1: I am looking for a HD camera, I've used DV until now. I'll also upgrade to CS4. But which camera should I go for, or more specific, which format: HDV or AVCHD? Any camera suggestions (in the range of 1000-1500 USD (or about 10.000 NOK)
I have read a lot about the time issues using AVCHD, as well as other problems using this format. But it seems that, at least for someone, it does work.
About my usage:
- editing is just a hobby for me, so long rendering/exporting time is not a problem, as long as the(simple) editing works fine (that I preview transitions, added text, and some other "simple" effects without need to render first)
- for me would a HDD based camera be more convenient than a tape based HDV camera (that is why I "hope" to get a avchd camera instead of HDV)
b Q2: I have a Core 2 Duo 2,4 GHz, 2 GB DDR2 ram three disk system now, but will do some upgrades if neccessary (eg. 3xRAID 0, Quad core, some more ram)
b Q3 Which process is time consuming using AVCHD? importing to Premiere (but I guess you do not have to recode the files?), editing, and/or rendering/exporting to Blue ray?
b Q4 For those of you using AVCHD, and are happy about how its works, what kind of camera and system do you use?
Thanx
Nic

Hi,
my inputs are:
Q1:
if you like a nontape workflow --> Go for AVCHD
Why not using Premiere Elements 7 for your hobby? everthing is perfectly supported in the first round..
Q2:
With a reasonable Q6600 system you can play 2 AVCHD streams nearly readtime today, i.e. editable both in PPro CS4 and APE7
Q3
In my case to apply/render a redgiant filter to a clip is even more time consuming as to generate a BD, never was a problem for me
Q4
AVCHD isn't evil, it's only another animal to tame.
I use a Sony CX6E camcorder (memorysticks up to 32 GB), a monopod, a Zoom H2 for audio (forget the 5.1 ideas with cameras which even don't have limiter for the internal mic). If you would like to have some manual control I would suggest to look the Panasonic AVCHD consumer line.
My next investment will be most probably a Panasonic HMC151E (AVCHD)or a Sony FX1000 with a recorder attached --> both at least 200 % of your budget; in any case you touched only the surface of all components needed for this "new world" :-))
hber
SW Vista Ultimate 32 bit, Cubase SX 4.5.2, Triton Le, Adobe Master Collection, Izotope Ozone 3, Reason 4, Native Instruments Massive, Battery 3, VSL Vienna Suite, HW Intel D975XBX2, RME HDSP9632, Quad Q6600, 3 GB memory, Marvell 61xx 1 TB Raid 0 storage, GeForce 7600 GS silent, ext equipment MX200+166XL, Yamaha N12digital 5.1 mixing studio

What is better hdv or avchd?

I am about to be a reporter for my school's morning
news program and am not sure whether to get hdv or
avchd? I have a 1 year old Macbook Pro (not current
generation but siliver one with 2.4 ghz 2gb ram and
200 gb hard drive) with imovie 08 and will probably
also be editing in final cut express 4. If you had to
choose between the hv40 and hf s100/hf s10/hf s11
for reporting in the field, which would you chose? I
have heard that avchd has had some problems. Is one
easier to edit than the other? We still broadcast in sd
but have lots of hd cameras. Does the video ever skip
when imported? What about rendering and capturing
video? I am looking for the best video quality possible
and something that is future-proof, but need to edit
this video a lot, and probably will be needing to shoot
about 40 60 minutes of video at a time. My school has
pro and prosumer hdv cameras. Would I run into any
probelms when broadcasting avchd for my case? Please
help me out and I thank you in advance.
Message was edited by: 12mill

12mill wrote:
.. I assumed that the HD cameras were just better in terms of quality even though they we broadcast in standard definition. Is this true?..
this is a very complex issue, when you leave your living room at home = work only with one camera, one computer, one delivery device ..
integration into a structure of editors, rooms, delivery-chains, etc.. a diff. cup of tea..
can others handle your files and hardware?
what about archiving?
what about indexing?
technically, for sure a better input results in better output.
but..
HD is 4-6 more data than SD
HD isn't handled 'natively', you have always add conversion-times on input + render times on ouput
there are diff. standards for HD
no-tripod looks in HD/70" TFT even more worse than SD..
the main assets of each format imho:
• HDV allows easy storage of raws AND of final edits => excellent long-term storage
• SDcard is small and ultra-fast in preview, some models allow 2-8Mpixel-stills WHILE video recording
pic quality is defined by camera (optics, chip size and number, bitrate).
and handling.. a 1/4000 shutter speed in a candle lighted room could result in bad pics..

Is it possible to import both HDV and SD(shot in 16x9 format) in the same imovie 11 project? If so, how, please.

I am trying to combine both HDV and SD video in the same project and iMovie 11 doesn't want to accept the two different types of files at the import stage. Help please.

You need to import the footage into iMovie Events. Once they are in an event (or multiple events) you can drag these clips into an iMovie Project and mix them together.

What should I get, HDV or AVCHD camera.

I'm looking to get a new camera and I'm looking at most likely getting a Sony camera. I'm wondering which will work better and easier with Final Cut. I'm just stuck in deciding between a Hard disk drive camera that will record in AVCHD or one that records on mini DV tape in HDV. Im mainly looking for which has higher quality and greater ease of use.
Thanks

What version of FCP are you running? AVCHD support is officially limited to FCP 6.0.1 and I'd be wary until the accepted wisdom is that this is a straightforward workflow with no quality loss.
You state that your primary objectives are output to the web as video podcast or to DVD. As such I believe you're wasting your time looking at both proposed formats.
AVCHD workflow is unproven IMHO, HDV is wasted on video podcast/web output and you'll struggle to find a Blu Ray burner to output BluRay DVDs and the red dye HD DVDs you can output will only work in 1 player.
HDV editing brings it's own difficulties as stated and suggesting the HVX-200 with its associated P2 cost is plainly ridiculous for your budget.
I ain't impressed with 3 x 1/5" CCDs either - whatever the camera.
Get a 3 x 1/4.7" CCD Panasonic PV-GS500 (or GS400 if you can find one) or Sony DCR-HC96 for straightforward Standard Def workflow unless you want no inexpensive external monitoring or long render times (without converting to a more editing friendly codec via capture card = more expense).
There's life left in Standard Def and you'll still get decent quality if you're on a tight budget and wait till HDV/HD/AVCHD or whatever becomes cheaper/easier to work with in the future.
Camera technique is more important than format - don't forget, if you're shooting hi-def for large screen viewing (and it's pretty pointless if you aren't), focus is so much more critical for one thing - I'd much rather work with and watch stuff shot by someone who knows one end of their DVX100 from the other, rather than some eejit who knows nowt but is using an expensive all-singing, all-dancing Hi-Def offering.
IMHO, of course.

Mixing HDV and AVCHD

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