Outlining font with a stoke changes overall font thickness-Why?

I am working on a project that is being printed in Japan and we have to outline all the fonts in order to elliminate font issues. However, one of the fonts has a black outline and when I create outlines of this font headline, it changes the thickness of the font. I tried changing the stroke on the font before outlining it to the outside, inside and center and nothing is working. Any thoughts??

Let me get the predictable response out of the way. Every day I handle the most complex scripts - Japanese, while by definition "complex," is pretty simple in comparison to Burmese/Karen/vertical Mongolian/whatever. I never need to outline fonts, unless I'm dealing with someone whose print workflow is stuck in the early '90s. Do you really need to outline?
That being said, let's assume that yes, you actually do need to outline. (Faugh.)
However, one of the fonts has a black outline and when I create outlines of this font headline, it changes the thickness of the font.
Does it get heavier or lighter? Outlining destroys hinting (which can cause the text to look crowded), and causes the output to be a bit heavier. However, I think you're referring to the fact that when you convert text to outlines, you're losing the stroke that you've already applied, so it's actually lighter (less "thick?") than what you wanted. Can you clear this up for us?

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Pierre,
You may try the list and see how far down you need to go; you have probably been through 1) and 2), and 4) is both reversible and more thorough than 3); 5) is hardly relevant, so you may end up with 6).
The following is a general list of things you may try when the issue is not in a specific file (you may have tried/done some of them already); 1) and 2) are the easy ones for temporary strangenesses, and 3) and 4) are specifically aimed at possibly corrupt preferences); 5) is a list in itself, and 6) is the last resort.
If possible/applicable, you should save current artwork first, of course.
1) Close down Illy and open again;
2) Restart the computer (you may do that up to at least 5 times);
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http://www.adobe.com/support/contact/cscleanertool.html

How do I stop outlined fonts in Indesign

I have a customer, requesting a print ready version of their artwork. But they have now come back asking for the fonts to be un-pathed [not outlined].
From what I've read on various forums, it appears that Indesign exports by 'default', fonts outlined in pdfs.
Is there any way I can change the default, and produce a pdf with live text [not outlined]? Where is the default setting located??

ID most certainly does NOT outline fonts by default. In some cases of transparency flattening fonts may be outlined, but this is only if the flattener settings force it and transparency is actually flattened. The default is to embed fonts.

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Having completed the migration for our publication from ClarisWorks - which was just fine for 13 years - through AppleWorks (WEEPINGLY unrobust and erratic) to Pages, we now find that headlines set in Outline mode and positioned above a tinted panel,
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ClarisWorks outline fonts did, and splendidly. Even <spit> AppleWorks did. Pages, however, does not.
An Outline font should show the character in white, with a black outline. The white character should stay white when set over the top of a grey tinted panel.
The Editor is not happy about this. He is now wasting precious time in trying to make it work as it did using previous s/w.
Is there any way of making it work correctly? Or is the official line, with Pages, to just give up on outline font headlines and very very reluctantly change the design and go for solid black?
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Hi all,
I normally outline my fonts to avoid any hassles but I have created a design that has very thin type and when I outline it makes it too fat - bleh!
So I would like to know if it is ok just to save as a PDF WITHOUT outlining the fonts if you are sending a file off to magazine, newspaper, printer and that they will not have a problem with missing fonts etc.
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ScottWeichert wrote:
Live fonts do contain hinting which is sent to the RIP. Outlines don't contain any hinting. Hinting is exceptionally helpful at smaller type sizes. Outlines are really not the same as live type.
Every glyph in a font is a drawn character. Hinting smoothes display appearance. It could play a role in a RIP for a digital press, which relies on composite output and no separate plates for each ink. These devices treat fonts differently from dumb art, to compensate for a lower resolution output.
Let's assume that hinting for a particular glyph alters the shape of the glyph at different type sizes. To test, put the glyph on the artboard at 100 pt, and again at 2 pt. Duplicate the glyphs to a layer on top and outline. Verify that the shape of the outlines match the live font (coloring the outline something different helps).
To see if hinting affects the shape,the small shape must be enlarged proportionally to the larger glyph size, or the larger glyph shrunk proportionally to the smaller size.
Doing this, you may find that the two shapes match, or perhaps they don't. But it doesn't matter either way. When you outline fonts on output, the font doesn't get outlined, then resized - it just gets outlined. And the outline should be true to the vector shape of the glyph, no matter what the size is.
There are many arguments for and against outlining fonts. Here are both perspectives:
Advantages of live fonts in PDF output:
1. The PDF looks worlds better on screen. This is an extremely important point. The live font looking proper means less questions and concerns, less banter is time saved.
2. The font being in the PDF means that changes to the PDF are possible. Many printers prefer the fonts to be embedded whole instead of subset, and certainly not outlined. This can be a time saver. It can come down to the printer having to do one of three things - make a simple text change, try to match an outlined font to make the change, or wait on a new file. If the printer has the embedded font, the job can go to press faster.
3. File size of PDF is smaller, making file transfer faster. It can be the difference between email or FTP in some cases.
4. If something goes awry with the font in output, a simple preflight of the PDF can detect the problem. If the fonts are all outlined, you can't preflight the fonts, there aren't any - you have to hope Illy did a good job making the outlines.
5. If the designer chooses to outline the native art, he has to save a duplicate copy. If he uses the flattener to outline fonts, he's increasing his output time. Preserving live text, you avoid these issues.
Advantages of outlined fonts in PDF output:
1. Fonts are the bane of the printing industry. There are thousands upon thousands of fonts, some are good quality, some are garbage. There are many varieties of font formats. Together this adds up to a LOT of variables, and a lot of different ways text can get hosed. When you outline, the font variable is eliminated in one fell swoop.
2. Some people - printers and designers alike - subscribe to the "bullet proof PDF" solution. Such a PDF is one that is completely normalized. It goes well beyond flattening transparency, or RGB and Spot – CMYK. It includes what AI calls expansion of art. All text is outlined. All strokes become fills. Any effects, patterns and symbols are converted to dumb art. Sometimes even gradients and blends are converted into images. Overprints can also be flattened (although AI cannot do this). The result is a PDF which is a complete mess from an editing standpoint, but less likely to wig out a RIP.
3. Even if the designer does not outline, there is a good chance the printer will. He will probably not do it in Illustrator, more than likely text outlining would be an automated part of a separate workflow system. For example in the packaging industry, PDF files are often imported into Art Pro, with vectorize text enabled. So in that case, a designer who outlines his text beforehand might be choosing Illustrator's outline capability, instead of relying on the printer's outline capability.
4. If the printer uses a vector trapping engine, any traps around text will be vector art, not fonts. Sometimes fonts mixed with vector traps can be problematic. Again if the printer feels like fonts are an issue, he's probably outlining the text before trapping.
5. File integrity is an issue for some designers. Maybe they're afraid that a competing designer might snag a PDF. If the fonts are all outlined, figuring out the fonts is certainly possible, but it's harder than simply pulling up the font list in Acrobat.
6. Some printers demand PDFs with all transparency flattened. If live fonts are retained in flattened PDFs, you can end up with live glyphs that are clipping masks for images. Such a configuration is similar to a live font in Photoshop output. Anyone who deals with fonts in Photoshop output knows that the construction is pretty hopeless (Photoshop can't even embed a complete font). It is best not to have live text playing the role of a clipping mask for contone data.
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Outlining font with a stoke changes overall font thickness-Why?

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