Referenced and managed files

I know this is a topic with a wealth of discussions but my search doesn't seem to bring up what I'm looking for. Can anyone direct me to previous discussions or other web sites that deal with the whole topic of referenced vs. managed files? Is there a good book to pick up for that? I want to have Aperture access my photos from an external drive (for freeing up hard drive space) and I need to better understand how to do that. Yet it sounds like I should be keeping it in Aperture as well via some sort of compressed file (managed?) Basically assume I know nothing and want to understand the ins and outs of referenced/managed masters.
Thanks,
Steve Hadeen

Hi Steve.
It's hard to understand -- but not _that_ hard . A book is not required. See if this short description helps.
Be careful (and specific) with your nomenclature -- it will keep you from getting mired in the bogs of confusion that rim our sun-lit plateau. Your camera creates files. You import files into Aperture. On import, Aperture puts that file somewhere, and thereafter refers to it as a Master. The Master is never altered. You control where Aperture puts it (and you can have Aperture move it at any time). What you see in Aperture is an Image. Every Image has a Version and a Master. The Version is a text file containing instructions on how to vary the Master to produce the Image. The Version of the first Image created by Aperture when it imports a file is essentially null (it contains no information). When you create a new Version, Aperture names it "Version 2". (The confusion here is that Aperture encourages the user to call Images "Versions". This is a bit of a devil's bargain: it helps the casual user, but confuses the careful user.) You can see the Master of any Image displayed in the Viewer at any time by typing "m" (it triggers the Image/Master toggle).
All you need to do is have Aperture move some or all of your Masters to your external drive. Note that you can easily, at any time, convert Masters from Managed to Referenced and vice versa. Note too that backing up your Library does not back up any Referenced Masters. You must back up Referenced Masters in addition to backing up your Library.
Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger -- minor clarification.

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Time 1232465069
Signature aee5d3665e6350cb0e87df99810f690f4b7931110e85c4e016a86345cea63c3e
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Regards
TD

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How do you convert managed files to referenced files?

I have exported all the files that I mistakenly saved to my aperture library.
since I've exported them by year and month I can easily incorporate them into my referenced files on various external hard drives.
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As I understand it:
You had a bunch of original image files and imported them into AP using managed.
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Image size problem after converting from Managed files to Referenced files.

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Thank you for the suggestion and running the test. I changed the Preview settings to 1440, and then 2560 and finally, Don't Limit. Quit and relaunch Aperture between each setting. No luck.
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Managing files and vaults

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It sounds as though you're missing the option, in the Import pane, to move the images into the Aperture library. That will make them "managed," which will mean they're including in the Vault. If you leave them "referenced" they're not in the Vault and Aperture won't do anything at all about backing them up -- that will be up to you.
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http://homepage.mac.com/bagelturf/aparticles/ref/ref.html
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Referenced vs managed VS. file locations

I've always used referenced files; now keeping the AP library on the local disk and the referenced image files on an external FW800, 7200rpm 16MB cache drive. (I think there was a time when even the library was on an external drive - using a previous version of AP.)
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pvonk wrote:
Yes to OWC - I've purchased a four of these in the past year (FW, not eSATA) and like them so far.
With inspiration from another post, I've decide to abandon the referenced library in favor of the following strategy:
Copy files from the photo card (using ImageIngesterPro) to an external FW800/7200 OWC drive. Then import into AP managed library on the internal 7200 drive, keeping the OWC as a backup of the originals. The OWC is backed up using Chronosync to another OWC FW800 external. The vaults are also made to that OWC. So I have originals on one drive, library on local drive, and vault on another external. In addition, I use Time machine on yet another home drive and a second at work. Plus I use CrashPlan for another backup of the internal. (I'm a safety kind of guy.)
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Mixed library - managed and referenced - and not sure what's best

I've just come back to try iPhoto after a long time away. In the old days I used it exclusively to manage my photo library but wasn't a fan of how it forced all my photos into it's slightly unfriendly folder structure in the Finder and hence sort of force me to only ever use iPhoto to manage them.
I graduated to learning Photoshop, got a DSLR, ditched iPhoto and maintained my own folder structure on the Finder. I was happy!
But now I've got iPhoto '08 and I see you can import to iPhoto but NOT copy to the Library. Great! So I've started loading in all my personal 'event' photos as opposed to the more arty stuff that 75% of my photos consist of. It's nice to view them in iPhoto. But now it's getting complex. Now I have some older photos from before that are managed wholesale by the app, and all these others that are allegedly only 'referenced'. So, why is the Library expanding pretty heavily? And why, if I move a photo or even delete it in the Finder, are those changes not reflected whatsoever in iPhoto. What's actually going on in that Library???
Furthermore, some of these new photos are Adobe RGB and others are sRGB. If I want to print a photobook via iPhoto, do I need to change them all to sRGB to maintain consistent colour in the book? And does that mean deleting all the photos in iPhoto, re-saving the originals as sRGB, then re-importing the referenced files? I ask because like I say, changing the FInder-based files does not seem to reflect in iPhoto.
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owen-b
Here's my 2 cents.
Best option: let iPhoto manage the files.
2nd best option: You manage them
Recipe for Disaster: A mixture.
Here's why: The folder structure in iPhoto is very plain and easy to follow (and has been since v6 - which is also when the ability to reference files came in). A Note about the iPhoto Library Folder:
In this folder there are various files, which are the Library itself and some ancillary files. Then you have three folders
Originals are the photos as they were downloaded from your camera or scanner.
(ii) Modified contains edited pics, shots that you have cropped, rotated or changed in any way.
(iii) Data holds the thumbnails the the app needs to show you the photos in the iPhoto Window.
Events in the iPhoto Window correspond exactly with the Folders in the Originals Folder in the iPhoto Library package file (Right click on it in the Pictures Folder -> Show Package Contents).
You can move photos between Events, you can rename Events, edit them, create them, as long as you do it via the iPhoto Window. Check out the Info Pane (wee 'i', lower left) the name and date fields are editable. Edit a Event Name using the Info Pane, the Event Folder in iPhoto Library/Originals will also have the new name.
Finding files is easy: There are three ways (at least) to get files from the iPhoto Window.
1. Drag and Drop: Drag a photo from the iPhoto Window to the desktop, there iPhoto will make a full-sized copy of the pic.
2. File -> Export: Select the files in the iPhoto Window and go File -> Export. The dialogue will give you various options, including altering the format, naming the files and changing the size. Again, producing a copy.
3. Show File: Right- (or Control-) Click on a pic and in the resulting dialogue choose 'Show File'. A Finder window will pop open with the file already selected.
You can set Photoshop or any editor as an external editor in iPhoto. (Preferences -> General -> Edit Photo: Choose from the Drop Down Menu.) This way, when you double click a pic to edit in iPhoto it will open automatically in Photoshop, and when you save it it's sent back to iPhoto automatically.
If you run iPhoto outside the default setting, with referenced files, then you become responsible for all the file management. Importing and deleting are multi-stage operations and migrating to a new disk or Mac can be more complex. To be honest - and always allowing for personal preference - I've yet to see a good reason to run iPhoto in referenced mode unless you're using two photo organisers.
The problem with the third option - mixed - is that it's far too easy to forget who's managing which file - you or the app - and that way, data loss lies.
To specific questions:
And why, if I move a photo or even delete it in the Finder, are those changes not reflected whatsoever in iPhoto.
iPhoto is a database. Like any database it cannot know about changes you make outside of the application. Think of it this way. You hire a filing clerk, let the clerk loose organising your files. Then the clerk goes home for the day and you go into the filing room and re-arrange things. Next day you complain because the clerk can't find your files?
If you use iPhoto referencing your files, then deleting is a two stage process. Move the files to the iPhoto trash and empty it removes them from iPhoto. Then remove them from your own filing structure. If iPhoto manages the files, trashing them in iPhoto removes them from the HD as well. Moving files around in the Finder is hiding them from the filing clerk
So, why is the Library expanding pretty heavily?
Check out the structure of the library as described above. In the referenced library the Originals is populated with aliases, but the Modifieds does include pics that are flagged for auto rotation.
I'm very unwilling to import duplicates into the Library, thereby doubling the space taken up by my images!
Understandable. So don't waste the space. Let iPhoto manage the files and trash your own structure! A big leap, perhaps too big, so think about the referenced format. However, I have to say that a mixed library increases the risk of data loss exponentially.
I'll leave the questions on color management to those more knowledgeable than me.
Hope that helps.
Regards
TD

IPhoto 08 and Photoshop - suggestions on workflow and managing PSD files

Hi Everyone,
I'm a long-time Photoshop user, and a recent convert to Mac (BTW - I love my new Mac), therefore I am also new to iPhoto 08. I must say that I actually enjoy how iPhoto manages my pictures, as it is not all that different from how I've been managing my pics manually for years (by year, by event, etc.). I've read the various discussion topics on how to set up and use Photoshop as an external editor from iPhoto, and have not had any problems up to now.
I'm now looking for suggestions on workflow and managing my PSD files. I apologize if this is a little long, but I want to make sure I explain the problem clearly. Here's the scenario:
- From iPhoto, I choose to edit an existing JPEG file in the external editor, Photoshop.
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The problem is, I now want to go back and do more tweaks on the PSD, the end result of which will make the JPEG version out-of-date. I can either
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I don't have a solution for you (sorry) but I'd like to comment because I'm in a similar boat. However instead of saving PSD files to the desktop, I've been advised to save these to TIFF format in Photoshop by a professioal photographer friend of mine (I think he feels its a more universal file format than PSD for archival purposes). The downside is the files are huge.
I imported high resolution jpegs into iPhoto. I then use Photoshop to edit and save the flattened jpeg version back to iPhoto (thankfully, keywords are preserved this way). I recently realized that I need to save a copy of the edited file in a lossless format like TIFF or PSD. Unfortunately when I save the file to TIFF and import it back into iPhoto, keywords are lost. This is a drag.
What I am trying to figure out is how I can retain my keyword info in the edited archival version. Any tips?
I'm beginning to question whether I should import my photos in to Photoshop (or PS Bridge) first, save the original for archival purposes, do the majority of editing and save a TIFF/PSD file and then import this file into iPhoto for keywording, further editing, downsizing, etc.

Referenced and managed files

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