Removing pulldown

I was searching around for already asked questions about pulldown but didn't find anything helpful.
I want to capture 1080i footage from HDCAM-SR and remove pulldown while doing so.
What is the quickest, best way to do this in FCP 6.0.6?
Thanks!

It's probably ok. When you step thru it frame by frame (viewing on an external monitor) do you see any sign of interlacing? If not, you should be fine. If you don't have an HD external monitor, try setting your viewer to 100%. You should see evidence of interlacing as you step thru it frame by frame.
Gotta admit, I'm guessing on this, but it's an educated guess.
Message was edited by: Michael Grenadier

Similar Messages

Removing pulldown... cinema tools vs compressor vs ???

I have some footage shot at 24p on my canon hf 10. I need to remove pulldown. I saw this artice here
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410?viewlocale=en_US):
now, which is a better method, to remove the pulldown, cinema tools or compressor, or even, another third party app does it better? Compressor and Cinema tools are 2 different programs, so they must have 2 different ways of doing things, and or results.
with compressor I have created a setting and a droplet on my desktop.
but I am interested in what the article says
*This method requires that you determine the cadence pattern for each clip.*
*In Final Cut Pro, choose the Easy Setup named "Apple Intermediate Codec, 29.97, HDV-Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60".*
*Capture your clips.*
*Open each clip in Cinema Tools and manually reverse telecine each clip.*
how do I determine the Candence for EACH CLIP? also, if I shoot at 30p, do I also need to remove pulldown, or is this just for 24p?

piff aroni wrote:
I have some footage shot at 24p on my canon hf 10. I need to remove pulldown. I saw this artice here
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410?viewlocale=en_US
Zak Ray wrote:
Not sure why the article is recommending using AIC-- as I see it, your options are 1) capture native HDV and transcode to ProRes + reverse telecine in Compressor, or 2) capture ProRes and reverse telecine in Cinema Tools.
The best way to figure it out is probably to just run a test.
Am in a very similar situation to Piff, and as Zak suggests am about to do some tests.
Meantime though, would be interested to hear from anyone with experience in this particular area, especially since the Knowledge Base article quoted above is a bit confusing on two fronts:
1) It refers to the Canon HV20, which shoots HDV, whereas the camera referenced by the original poster, the Canon HF10 -- assuming it's the same Canon HF10 I've been using -- shoots AVCHD files on SDHC cards (and/or its internal memory);
2) As Zak points out, it's surprising that there's no mention of ProRes, just AIC. The article says it was last modified July, 2008 -- was that pre-ProRes?
In any case, I'll try to post my results as soon as I can run my own Compressor vs. Cinema Tools tests -- but in the meantime would appreciate hearing any insights from those who've already been down that road, especially in regards to best practices for removing the pulldown added by the Canon HF10 when shooting "24p" (which as a colleague recently pointed out, should actually be called "24f", as in "24fake" -- since it's really just 29.97 interlaced in disguise).
Thanks,
John Bertram
Toronto

"Remove pulldown" option unavailable (grayed-out)

My understanding from reading the scant description in the manual, a user should have the option to select "remove pulldown" when importing from a tape-based device. I have been testing FCP X by importing HDV material from a Sony HVR-A1U (1080i) and a JVC GY-HD110 (720p, 24fps). In neither case am I given the "remove pulldown" option. Am I missing something? Thanks for any advice.

The short answer follows:
"pulldown" is only applicable if your source material was originally film and then transferred to NTSC 29.97 standard def. video.
The longer answer follows:
Back in the early days of video, film was transferred to video using a device called a film-chain which consisted of a modified film projector which was pointed at a TV camera. A film projector consists of a light source, the film gate (which is where each frame of film is held in place), a mechanism to advance the film through the projector at 24 frames per second (FPS), and a shutter to block the light while the film is advanced. Normal film projectors have either two or three blades so that each frame of film is flashed before the audience's eyes at either 48 or 72 FPS before the film is advanced to the next frame.
NTSC video is interlaced which means that each frame of video consists of two fields and the shutter in the film chain projector is designed so that the film is projected for a duration of 2 fields for one frame, then the film is advanced by one frame and that frame is projected for 3 fields, then 2 fields, then 3 fields. When the film is advanced throught the gate it is literally "pulled down" through the gate at this 2 field / 3 field rate. Thus the term "2-3 (or 3-2) pulldown. This adds 12 fields per second to the video stream which gets us from 24 FPS to 30 FPS.
The shutter is also designed so that the film is not projected during the vertical refresh period of the video camera.
Hope that helps.

Footage imported 720PN, Didn't remove pulldown, Fix in Compressor?

Hi, if you know this, you are truly an FCP ninja.
Was unfamiliar with the 720p workflow and simply used Import -P2 footage off of the card. Didn't use Remove Pulldown Box. Seemed simple enough, but now the footage is a mess. It's choppy and sped up. Don't have original files.
I understand that compressor (FCP 6.0.6) has a way to fix this? Is that true? Re-shooting is not an option and days are already gone. Any true Compressor ninjas out there? Please?
Thank you so much!

Thanks for replying. I was beginning to think my post would be buried and never seen again.
I am aware of the need in CS4 to do the manual "Interpret Footage" step, which was not required in CS3 when needing to remove 3:2 pulldown.
But unless the 3:2 pulldown cadence information is recorded as part of taking the progressive footage and putting it into a 60i wrapper (i.e. your progressive footage is actually recorded on tape as a 60i signal, but where the frames follow a 3:2 pulldown system), then Premiere would be left to guess at the pulldown timing.
So far from my research, it would appear that a number of first-level prosumer cameras that do the 60i-wrapper method of recording progressive frames onto tape do not record the pulldown phasing information. That would prevent Premier Pro CS3 and CS4 from successfully restoring the footage to 24p after interpreting the footage.
People say that Sony and Canon are particularly bad about this. Panasonic cameras have not had reports of problems for SD progressive as well as HD progressive pulldown removal - that I know of at least -- so they appear to be consistent among their models for recording 3:2 cadence phasing information.
You mentioned that you are now having problems with your footage. A couple of questions for you. What model camera do you use? And are you using DV or HDV, or something else for your progressive footage?
For example, if you use a Canon XH-A1, do you shoot HDV 24pa mode? Thoses pieces of information will make the situation more clear.

Removing pulldown for footage shot in 24p

I just got a canon hf10 camcorder and I was using the 24p mode, but then I was told that my camera does not record true 24p. In order to get true 24p from that, I need to remove pulldown.
How does one remove pulldown using final cut pro?

Well I read your reponse and then got excited, but then I read this, and now Im even more lost. I am looking for a way that "just works", and the manuals dont help much.
http://www.microfilmmaker.com/tipstrick/Issue33/HF10WKTH.html
Final Cut Pro and Cinema Tools
Don’t try to remove the pull-down in Final Cut Pro or in Cinema Tools. Final Cut Pro actually passes the frames through to Cinema Tools to perform the pull-down removal, and Cinema Tools cannot remove the pull-down from this footage because it cannot deal with temporally-compressed video. If you try this you will get footage that looks like it is 24p, but will have peculiar interlaced frames where Cinema Tools has incorrectly removed a good frame and left a pull-down frame in place. Also, Cinema Tools will replace the original MOV file, not create a separate file. So it is destructive. And if you have Reverse Telecine operating in Final Cut Pro during Log and Transfer, it will result in an incorrect and unusable file.
Message was edited by: piff aroni

Remove pulldown XDCAM 60i footage???

Source XDCAM EX 60i footage was brought into FCP via Sony's Transfer tool.
We want to remove pulldown and have the footage be 23.98 (24p). We have tried various renders, etc. and to no avail, it removes the wrong frames, looks fractured and overall looks horrible on playback.
Can anyone suggest how to get this 60i footage to true 24p???
It was so much easier in the past working with 29.97 (24p) and easily removing frames to get the source clips to 23.98 - it would always grab the right frames and look as good as SD can afterwards.
Thanks.

Did you shoot it 24p? Because if you didn't have the camera set to record the footage as 24p, meaning recording the footage with pulldown, there will be no pulldown to remove...so yeah, it will look like crud.
You can try the Nattress Film Effects plugin. That will make the 60i (29.97) footage look 24p...without actually being 23.98. The only way to really get 23.98 footage from footage shot 60i is via a really good capture card (Kona 3) or a Terranex transfer.
Shane

Removing Pulldown from 1080i59.94 footage to get 1080p23.976

I have 1080p23.976 footage that is stored in-camera by wrapping the 24p footage into a 60i wrapper, by introducing pulldown in-camera. To edit it, I need to remove the pulldown from the 1080i59.94 footage, with the end result being 23.976 fps progressive. Can After Effects do this? Interpret footage, maybe? Also, I only have CS4.

ColtonVideography.com wrote:
I need to remove the pulldown from the 1080i59.94 footage, with the end result being 23.976 fps progressive.... I only have CS4.
Since you run AE 9, the codec of the footage could be a stumbling block as well. If it's not DVCPro HD, you'll probably have trouble with long-gop codecs used in HDV, XDCam and others. I recommend converting the footage to a lossless or uncompressed codec prior to pulldown removal.

Removing Pulldown from Canon HV20 shot at 24P

Hello,
I have been trying to understand this whole situation particularly with the Canon HV20 and the 1080p24 mode that the camera offers. It is my understanding that when this video is stored to HDV it is shot onto a 1080i60 timeline, thus when capturing the video capture the video at 1080i60.
Okay, that I can do without a problem. However now I want to remove the pulldown using Cinema Tools to get the video into the proper 1080p24 mode so that it can be edited on a 1080p24 timeline.
I have read two main posts regarding this:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=4287943&#4287943
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89642&highlight=fcp
The user was kind enough to provide the following information:
p-p-i-i-p - aa
p-i-i-p-p - bb
i-p-p-p-i - bc
p-p-p-i-i - cd
However, I understand that this implies the sequencing of the Interlaced and Progressive frames.
With that said, I have no clue how this applies to the options available in Cinema tools. I have zero experience with Cinema Tools other than, "Hey, that looks interesting." just to fiddle around with it for a minute get bored and move on.
Thanks any help would be greatly appreciated and I am sure that there will be other HV20 owners soon popping up with the same question....
PowerMac G5 Quad / MacBook Pro 2.0GHz / PowerMac G4 Cube 1.8GHz Mac OS X (10.4.9) Final Cut Studio - Shake 4.1 - Adobe CS2

If someone can explain how this works or point to
someplace I can learn some more I would appreciate
it.
My apologies in advance for the long winded post.
I’ve seen this question several times but I haven’t yet seen a good answer for this. So I did a little digging and here’s what I can tell you. Any of you experts out there can correct me if need be.
First off, let’s look at how the HV20 actually stores the 24p frames in a 60i format. And let’s ignore the 23.98/29.97fps thing for a while. Remember that for 60i there are 60 interlaced fields every second, each containing half the video lines necessary to make up a complete frame of data. So in order to get a complete frame, it requires 2 fields. This means that 60i really only has 30 frames worth of video every second. Fairly basic stuff… I hope nothing new.
Now let’s break this down a little further, the most basic repeating pattern for this format is 4 progressive frames being fit into 10 interlaced fields (divide both 24 and 60 by 6, don’t ask me why, it’s just the way they did it because it fits.). These 4 progressive frames are referred to as A – B – C – D. What the HV20 (and other cameras) do is convert this to interlaced fields so that it fits inside the 60i data fields. This gives us something like Au – Al – Bu – Bl – Cu – Cl – Du – Dl. Where the “u” and “l” refer to the upper or lower field of video. To make a complete frame you have to reassemble an upper field with a lower field. Now it you’re keeping track, you’ll notice that this only adds up to 8 fields and 10 would be what is needed. So they duplicate 2 fields to get 10 in this fashion: Au – Al – Bu – Bl – Bl – Cu – Cl – Du - Du – Dl. Since it takes 2 sequential fields to make a frame, this sequence normally gets referred to as AA – BB – BC – CD – DD. It shouldn’t be that big of a leap now to see that this can also be referred to as p-p-i-i-p when looked at from a frame (two consecutive fields) perspective, ie: AA is considered progressive, BB is considered progressive, BC is considered interleaved, etc.
FCP uses the AA – BB – BC – CD – DD nomenclature to designate how the cadence of a clip starts.
p-p-i-i-p -> AA – BB – BC – CD – DD -> referred to as AA
p-i-i-p-p -> BB – BC – CD – DD – AA -> referred to as BB
i-i-p-p-p -> BC – CD – DD - AA – BB -> referred to as BC
i-p-p-p-i -> CD – DD - AA – BB – BC -> referred to as CD
p-p-p-i-i -> DD - AA – BB – BC – CD -> referred to as DD
As mentioned before, the easiest way to do this in Cinema Tools is to place the first of 3 p frames in the viewer and the set the cadence to DD.
Hope this helps.
Mark

Using a Blackmagic Card to remove Pulldown

Hi,
We did a test here where we setup our Blackmagic card to remove the pulldown (hardware) from Digital Betacam footage shot in film. The only option that we saw in the preference pane for blackmagic was to select the frame reference (00)-(01)-(02) etc.
In FCP 5.0 we used the blackmagic 8 bit capture presets. We put the fps at 23.98. The grab went fine, the pulldown was removed properly. That was surprising since we thought it wasn't supported, but after several tests we could confirm that it was working properly.
The thing that we realised later was that the timecode in the quicktime file was totally wrong: it was kind of randomly offset + it was in 29.97 fps even though the clip was playing in 24fps. So are we missing a setting here, or it just because the feature is not supported inside FCP5.0 ?
I can handle the truth.
thanks in advance
seb
PowerMac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.5)

Very interesting, as I also thought the AJA was the way to go if you wanted to do pulldown removal. Just to clarify, you were capturing at 23.98p, correct? You just have me a little confused when you say "the clip was playing in 24fps" as 24fps and 23.98p are different settings.
Also, it's the timecode in FCP that's displaying 29.97, right? A little while ago I was in a forum where there was confusion b/t timecode in FCP and the burn in time code. That doesn't sound like what you're experiencing though. Other than the timecode, you say everything look right? No interlaced frames or anything like that? Again, from your description it sounds like this all went fine. My only guess is that Black Magic can remove the pulldown but can't properly deal with the timecode so they say it's not supported. In my limited experience, I captured interlaced, removed the pulldown, and used the media manager to make offline copies. This worked perfectly switching b/t the online and offline versions. Surprisingly, even when I accidentally directed the timeline to reconnect to the interlaced media that I had not deleted yet, I still eneded up at the same place in the footage. So, I'm guessing keeping up with all these timecodes is a tricky matter and perhaps Black Magic is directly their efforts elsewhere.

Editing 24p that's shot in 60i: remove pulldown or not?

I'm going to edit some 24p footage, which is 60i with a 3:2 pulldown. If I reverse/remove the pulldown before editing, I know I can edit it in native 24p, but since it was recorded in 60i, I can also keep the pulldown and edit it as 60i video, right?
My options are:
1. Remove 3:2 pulldown before editing and edit in 24p
2. Don't remove 3:2 pulldown; edit in 60i
Does the quality get affected at all if you take out 3:2 pulldown in order to edit in 24p? I'd like to preserve quality. When you edit 24p/60i video, do you ever edit it in a 60i timeline?

It won't be shown on the web, it will be burned to a regular NTSC DVD, with the unlikely possibility of Blu-ray in the future.
My real question is whether or not reversing pulldown will reduce quality at all. Because it involves decompressing video (so that the pulldown fields can be extracted), which makes me wonder if that changes the quality. If it doesn't, then I guess it doesn't matter if I edit 24p or 60i.
Anybody know if quality is affected by pulldown reversal?

Remove Pulldown on Nattress Clip

I have a clip that originated in 1080i60 and had the Graeme Nattress' film effects added to it, giving it a 3:2 pulldown. Now I'm bringing it into Cinema Tools to remove the pulldown and get rid of my split frames-- the problem is, I don't know what options to choose for Capture Mode and Field Style. Any help would be appreciated.
Zak

Talked to Graeme, who informed me I should use "Field 1-Field 2" with a style of "AA" and the "Standard Upper/Lower" box unchecked.

Removing pulldown without knowing how it was captured

Is there a simple way of finding out what settings to use in Cinema Tools if you have no idea how the video was captured?
In this case it's NTSC film-sourced footage.

Hide the purchase in your account and there should be nothing more from it.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4919

Pulldown removal in AME?

Can AME removal pulldown from Canon Vixia .MTS 24PF files? These files are not real 24p unless pulldown is removed; they are in a 60i wrapper.
I note that in the AME settings we can change the frame rate. So if I were to select the 23.98 frame per second setting, would this effectively transform my files in true 24p? After doing this conversion in AME I cannot see any interlacing in the picture, whereas I could spot interlacing in the original .MTS file.
Thank you.

yes AME can do the pulldown by hardcoding it to 23.98 (your source is most likely 59.97i not 60i since it's NTSC).
BUT....
pulldown is all about which frame to throw away.
24p encapsulated in 30p has frame doubling. (ie pullup) Every 4th frame is doubled. thus 4 frames becomes 5.. ie 24 becomes 30.
24 FRAMES A:B:C:D played at 30 FRAMES     A:B:C:D:D:A:B:C:D:D:A:B:C:D:D
BUT.... if AME doesn't choose the RIGHT frame to throw away you COULD get
WRONG      Throw away A:          B:C:D:D:B:C:D:D
WRONG      Throw away B:          A:C:D:D:A:C:D:D
WRONG      Throw away C:          A:B:D:D:A:B:D:D
RIGHT          Throw away D:         A:B:C:D:A:B:C:D
So I'd suggest that you do a test run and if it doesn't flicker you're good. If it's wrong oh you'll know - it's aweful.
If it DOES FLICKER then drop it into a 23.98 Sequence in Prem Pro and export from there. - Then you can INTERPRET FOOTAGE to change that behavour.

30 to 24 frames, pulldown removal issue

I'm working at this animation place. The animators work with the live footage that comes in to composite their animations. So I have to convert each shot from 30 to 24 fps (it comes in at 29.97)
So far the workflow has been export each scene using the current settings of 29.97 10 bit uncompressed non drop.
bring that qt into after effects.
interpret footage > conform to 30 fps > guess pulldown removal (WWSSW) then i'd render out a targa sequence at 24 frames, and everything works out nicely.
until,
I'm working on a sequence that when exported to QT
shows some scenes with split frames on EVERY frame.
so the remove pulldown feature in AE fails because of this.
I then discover that some of the scenes in question
have time remapping applied to them (frames blended).
Does anyone have a fix for how to handle footage with
time-remapping applied, so it exports with proper 3:2 pulldown?

Cinema Tools can remove the pulldown in one step from the 29.97 files. I doubt this will work right at all with time remapped clips though, so you need to go back to the originals, then time remap them back after they've had their pulldown removed I'd think.
You are right about the clips... need to do them one at a time. I suppose you could try a sequence, but the result would end up being one long clip... might not want that?
Jerry

Removing 720p pulldown (HVX) after imported?

Hi, if you know this, you are truly an FCP ninja.
Was unfamiliar with the 720p workflow and simply used Import -P2 footage off of the card. Didn't use Remove Pulldown Box. Seemed simple enough, but now the footage is a mess. It's choppy and sped up. Don't have original files.
I understand that compressor (FCP 6.0.6) has a way to fix this? Is that true? Re-shooting is not an option and days are already gone. Any true Compressor ninjas out there? Please?
Thank you so much!

The file plays fine in QT but suddenly won't import after attempted removing of advanced pulldown to all clips in the browser. The ones that remained 29.97 due to the inability of Cinema Tools to properly remove the advanced pulldown are the ones giving me the error on import.

Removing pulldown

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