The Zone System (Linear Tone Curve?)

Hi, I've been learning the zone system by Ansel Adams. I would like to take a photo and import it into photoshop so that each value in my scene matches the according grayscale measurements in photoshop (measured using Lab values).
I used my camera and took 11 exposures of a grey card: -5 ('Black'), -4, -3, -2, -1, 0 (Mid Grey), +1, +2, +3, +4, +5 ('White').
I then opened the files in Adobe Camera Raw (No adjustments)
I then opened them with Photoshop
I measured the Lightness values using Lab and plotted the points on a graph.
I see that somewhere along the line an S Curve has been applied to the input values! I would like an even distribution of the input tonal values.
How do I turn this S-curve off? Or, how do I achieve a linear curve when importing photos to photoshop?
Essentially:
I would like a linear response curve so that each tone (each 1 stop exposure from above) maps to the appropriate grayscale value in even increments (i.e., 10% steps).
Zone 0:     0% (Black)
Zone 1:     10%
Zone 2:     20%
Zone 3:     30%
Zone 4:     40%
Zone 5:     50%
Zone 6:     60%
Zone 7:     70%
Zone 8:     80%
Zone 9:     90%
Zone 10:   100% (White)
Can anyone shed any light on this issue? I'm really stumped with this one!

This looks like a typical response curve that you would also see with film. I'm not sure you would want a linear line, as your images would look flat. If you really want a linear curve, play around with the curves in ACR and adjust them so that they compensate for the curve that your camera sensor is creating.

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How do I set a preset in LR to import all files from my computer with a Medium Tone Curve?

I edit a file in PS, and LR informs me that the "metadata for the file has been changed." I opt for import settings from disk (my changes), but in doing so the file is always rendered with a linear tone curve. What I am seeking is to have the file that I've been working on PS, be with the same rendering in LR.
Thank you,
S

I just followed your workflow. In other words I used the "edit in" option to send an image to Photoshop where I made a significant change in the tone curve. Then I saved that image, which returned to Lightroom. The Lightroom tone curve still displayed as a linear curve. In other words it didn't reflect the changes that I made in Photoshop. However the image itself displayed the changes that were made. So apparently saving your PSD in Photoshop will not force Lightroom to display the Photoshop changes. As far as Lightroom is concerned, that is the new linear curve. The only curve adjustments you will see in Lightroom are the ones made using Lightroom.
To summarize what I'm trying to say, whatever you change the curve to in Photoshop becomes the linear curve in Lightroom. Sorry that I am so poor with words sometimes.

LR4 Tone Curve default

Why in LR4 is the Tone Curve default set to Custom with a contrast lowering curve? I would like the default to be linear, but I can't remember how I set that up in LR3.

You probably had a preset for your camera in default develop settings, set to LR3- linear tone curve?
And now you have changed it into LR4- linear and have saved this as new develop default?
On this forum we prefer to share findings, so that others can benefit from by reading about it... It is not enough if just your particular issue is solved.
Cornelia

Tone Curve mismatch

I've been playing around with the different forms of tone curves and their application through the DNG:PE / ACR / LR chain and have run across something which I can't explain. As I understand the documentation and subsequent discussions here, the tone curve as defined in the PE is what will result when ACR / LR processes with the default values (0 blacks as exception). If I redraw the 'base curve' however (using a 5 point match to make it nearly identical) and then set the base to 'Linear', my result is considerably brighter than with the actual base curve. Assuming that these are being applied overtop one another, order shouldn't matter, and so I am left wondering why my result is so different?
Also, does changing the per-camera default settings in ACR / LR affect the target defaults coming out of the PE, or will they always assume the shipping default settings?
TIA.

The graph and sliders are not displaying, I can find nothing to check

Camera Raw Default Tone Curve Function / Coordinates

Hi,
I would like to know where I can find the function / coordinates for the Lightroom / ACR default tone curve that is applied to any image.
I think it's the red one in that image, or it's very very close:
I want to generate a lookup table to match it's effect. For now I plotted something that is very very close but I lack precision at the bottom of my curve.
Cheers,
Thomas

I'm confused - I thought the default was linear. I mean, this is probably not what you want, but here is a curve which makes PV2012's linear tone curve equivalent to PV2010 linear, or at least that's how I call it:
<dngclr:ToneCurve rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:Edit0 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>0</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>0</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit0>
<dngclr:Edit1 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>17</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>26</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit1>
<dngclr:Edit2 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>34</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>44</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit2>
<dngclr:Edit3 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>51</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>60</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit3>
<dngclr:Edit4 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>68</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>74</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit4>
<dngclr:Edit5 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>85</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>89</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit5>
<dngclr:Edit6 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>102</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>105</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit6>
<dngclr:Edit7 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>119</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>120</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit7>
<dngclr:Edit8 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>136</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>135</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit8>
<dngclr:Edit9 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>153</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>151</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit9>
<dngclr:Edit10 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>170</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>167</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit10>
<dngclr:Edit11 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>187</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>183</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit11>
<dngclr:Edit12 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>204</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>200</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit12>
<dngclr:Edit13 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>221</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>218</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit13>
<dngclr:Edit14 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>238</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>236</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit14>
<dngclr:Edit15 rdf:parseType="Resource">
   <dngclr:X>255</dngclr:X>
   <dngclr:Y>255</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit15>
</dngclr:ToneCurve>

Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4

Why does the clarity slider seem different to me in LR4 (4.1 RC actually)? IN LR3 I loved that thing. I would ramp it up quite a bit with many photos. It would give it a nice crisp look. Now it seems as if it just makes my shots look like they have too much contrast. Also, when using the clarity brush, many times it seems as if where I paint it on it actually lightens it up. I havce had to look as see if I had the exposure tool on instead.
Also, I swear a "medium contrast" tone curve setting is different now as well. This was the default setting in LR3. Now default is linear. But if I apply a medium curve from the drop down, it looks over cooked? What the heck? Are these things just me? BTW I am working RAW files. Thanks

If you want a PV2010 linear tone curve for PV2012, using the DNG Profile Editor (DPE):
* convert any raw file to DNG (if not already DNG)
* load it into the DPE
* Edit things if you want, except for the tone curve.
* Save the recipe.
* Load it (dcpr file) into a text editor.
* Replace the tone curve with this:
<dngclr:ToneCurve rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:Edit0 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>0</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>0</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit0>
<dngclr:Edit1 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>17</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>26</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit1>
<dngclr:Edit2 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>34</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>44</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit2>
<dngclr:Edit3 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>51</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>60</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit3>
<dngclr:Edit4 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>68</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>74</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit4>
<dngclr:Edit5 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>85</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>89</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit5>
<dngclr:Edit6 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>102</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>105</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit6>
<dngclr:Edit7 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>119</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>120</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit7>
<dngclr:Edit8 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>136</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>135</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit8>
<dngclr:Edit9 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>153</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>151</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit9>
<dngclr:Edit10 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>170</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>167</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit10>
<dngclr:Edit11 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>187</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>183</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit11>
<dngclr:Edit12 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>204</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>200</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit12>
<dngclr:Edit13 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>221</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>218</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit13>
<dngclr:Edit14 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>238</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>236</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit14>
<dngclr:Edit15 rdf:parseType="Resource">
<dngclr:X>255</dngclr:X>
<dngclr:Y>255</dngclr:Y>
</dngclr:Edit15>
</dngclr:ToneCurve>
* Re-save the file in your text editor
* Re-load the changed recipe in DPE
* Export a profile with a tone curve equivalent to PV2010 linear.
Note: The tone/point curve in Lightroom will not have any points on it that way.
PS - This procedure assumes you will be using the "Base Profile" for "Base Tone Curve" in order to achieve equivalence with PV2010 linear in PV2012 (for the same Cam-cal profile(s)). If what you want is a truly linear tone curve, select "Linear" as "Base Tone Curve".
Rob

Fix 'Recovery' slider & add 'Color Correction' slider to Tone Curve

My requests:
1.) Please change the behavior of the 'Recovery' slider so that it attacks very-blown-out-highlights more rigorously than less-blown-out-highlights.
2.) Please add a 'Color Correction' slider to the Tone Curve that is analogous to the 'Color Correction' slider built into the 'Shadows/Highlights' tool in Adobe Photoshop & Apple Aperture.
To more clearly understand what I'm asking for, let me compare Aperture vs. LR's handling of Highlight Recovery, and why I prefer how Aperture recovers my highlights with its Shadows/Highlights tool vs. how LR recovers my highlights with the 'Recovery' slider OR Tone Curve.
1.) Aperture's 'Shadows/Highlights' tool recovers highlights by attacking the brightest parts of the highlights more harshly than the lesser bright parts of the highlights (th extent of luminosities attacked is adjustable using the 'High Tonal Width' slider). LR's "Recovery' tool doesn't seem to, among highlights, preferentially attack the brighter parts of the highlights over the less bright highlights. In fact, sometimes it leaves THE brightest parts of my image nearly untouched! I've posted an image below that shows this.
2.) Aperture's 'Highlights' tool recovers highlights WHILE maintaining color saturation (you can control the extent to which this saturation is maintained using the 'Color Correction' slider under Advanced settings fo the Shadows/Highlights tool). LR's 'Highlights' within the Tone Curve desaturates colors as highlights are 'recovered' by bringing 'Highlights' down. Again, I've posted an image below that shows this.
Here is an image that clearly shows the different behaviors of Aperture's Shadows/Highlights tool vs. LR's Recovery tool vs. LR's 'Highlights' slider within the Tone Curve:
http://web.mac.com/rishisanyal/Lightroom/HighlightRecovery_LRvsAperture.jpg
I believe that LR's 'Recovery' slider has much room for improvement (i.e. attack the blown-out highlights more harshly than the less-blown-out highlights), and the addition, to LR's Tone Curve, of a similar 'Color Correction' slider as Aperture's & PS CS3's very own 'Shadows/Highlights' tools have, would be very welcome.
Thank you for your consideration,
Rishi

More for your eyes to feast on:
http://web.mac.com/rishisanyal/Lightroom/HighlightRecovery_LRvsAperture_2.jpg
http://web.mac.com/rishisanyal/Lightroom/LR_FailsToDecreaseBlownOutHighlights.jpg
Funny thing is, LR just seems unwilling to touch (255,255,255) blown-out highlights. In all my test images with a blown-out sun, LR leaves the sun at (255,255,255) after all combinations of exposure, recovery, and Tone Curve manipulations. Whereas Aperture will bring it down to something like (128,128,128). Which seems more logical, to me, if one is trying to darken the image or darken highlights... right?
Also, if you look at the Seattle & Mt. Rainier image, no matter what I try, LR will not get rid of that brighter 'halo' to the upper left of Mt. Rainier. It just won't! 'Recovery' ends up highlighting just that bubble, and decreasing the Highlights in the Tone Curve just turns it into a grey, desaturated, halo. I'm telling, it just won't get rid of that halo! It has a love affair with it! :)
Aperture immediately gets rid of it with its Highlight slider, and Photoshop's 'Shadows/Highlights' tool also gets rid of it after a bit of manipulations/tweaking.
Now, I try to avoid Aperture at all costs, but, for all these images, seems like I need to use Aperture as my 'external editor' just to fix the highlights!
Any suggestions are very much welcome & appreciated.

Brush mode: Tone curve, etc

Well, I'm new for LR, I'm trying to tweak a certain part in the photo by using Tone curve and else, but I don't think the LR would allow me to do that in the "Brush Mode", am I correct?
Because, I need to change some parts in the photo by increasing only red or green or blue, or even highlight and shadow, but I can't do that like Aperture in Mac. Or I do miss any feature control panel in the LR?
Seem like the LR would not give flexibility when working in Brush Mode, is this correct?

mrkavin wrote:
...but sometime it's frustrated when stuck with the LR limitation along the way while the other can do.
I understand.
When I first tried Lightroom (1.4), I was a bit disappointed with the scope of the develop tools available (and did not buy it). When Lightroom 2 included Clarity and Locals it was a big improvement (and I bought it and started using it along with Nx2 & DxO & Photoshop), but it still seemed lean compared to some raw converters (Nx2 as example). I mean, what Lightroom does it does well, for the most part, but full-featured develop tools can not really be touted...
Lr3 is known as the release when Lightroom became a true professional-grade development tool in my opinion: image quality + lens corrections. I applaud Adobe's decision to do just that. No more front-ending with DxO or Nx2 or DPP or CaptureOnePro, or Photoshop + Noise Ninja... I love Lr3 .
Still, I'm hoping Lr4 is known as the release when Lightroom comes of age, develop-module-wise... (distraction removal, more locals, signature auto-masking technology, better color adjustment including rgb curves, ..., and of course fixing of highlight recovery). No more doing without or frequently processing with a pixel editor after basic adjustments in Lightroom... If they do this, I will really-really love Lr4 .
Then in Lr5, Faces & Places & GPS & Collages & HDR & Layers & DLNA Servers & Networked Catalogs, or whatever... - I wont care... (yeah right .
R

Tiny little tone curve idea

In the tone curve one has the three sliders on the bottom splitting the curve into shadows, darks, lights and highlights. The initial settings for the "tone curve regions" are 0-25, 25-50, 50-75 and 75-100.
What I would like to see, is an option to change this initial setting to be relative to the image tonality, not absolute 25/50/75 slider positions, but relative to the amount of different tones in the image. For example in a dark low key image the shadow region could initially be set to something like 0-15 - whatever amounts to 25% of the pixels in the image, and if there were only very little highlights, the righthandmost slider would be probably close to the middle initially, covering the lightest 25% of the pixels in the image.
Sure, I can do this now manually, but an automated option would be nice as I often want to start tweaking the curve with the "splitters" dividing the curve into regions each with roughly the same amount of pixels.

Extremely extremely MONEY for the flat film scans I bring over from VueScan.
All the image data is bunched up on the left side, and Tone Curve is useless until I start varying the split point sliders.
An automated feature for this would be extremely useful.
-Rishi

Lr3 Tone curve Tutorials ?

I've done some googles for Tone Curve Tutorials but have not had much luck finding much - can you folks point me to some well explained or 'good' ones please?
Thank-you ~

Ian, thanks a lot for your interest in my problem.
Ian Lyons wrote:
Not sure what your issue issue because you can place as many or a few points on the Point Curve as you need to maintain control.
My problem is that the global effect a single point move entails forces me to use a large number of points. In order to adjust a local region (e.g., lift a small range of the midtones but leave everything else the same), I have to use at least seven points. Try this:
Start from a straight, unedited curve.
Insert a point at ~36.9 (X-axis) and move it up to 50% (Y-axis)
Insert a point at ~67.8 and move it down to 50%
Insert another point at ~50 (between the first two) and keep moving it up and down from 20% to 80%; watch the shape of the overall curve while doing this.
See how the "highlights" and "blacks" parts of the curve are heaviliy influenced while you are moving that middle point? Because of this, I find myself putting in more and more points to stop areas I don't want to see affected from changing shape. Try yourself to insert points to stop the local effect you want to achieve from having a global effect. You'll find that your additional "stop the effect"-points will themselves cause a non-local effect that you'll have to stop with further "stop"-points, etc.
I do realise that the tone curve needs to be smooth (mathematically, there shouldn't be any discontinuities in its first-order, or even second-order, derivation). I therefore understand the rationale of using splines and I also realise that LR is not the only program handling tone curves this way. However, I think the effect of moving one point is too global (i.e., non-local).
Still assuming the scenario above, try to put two "stop the global effect"-points at ~78/78 and 88/88 (in an attempt to have the highlight region unaffected by moving the point at 50. Then go back to step 4, i.e., move the point at 50 up and down. See how the shape of the curve between 88 and 100 still changes with large moves of the point at 50? That effect is completely unnecessary to make the curve smooth. It is just a side effect of using a particular kind of spline for the tone curve.
I hope I better expressed myself this time. Please let me know if a screenshot would help. It would be great if you could try the scenario and see whether you agree that some of the non-local effects are not really what the image editor intends.
P.S.: For recreating effects similar to that of the parametric control in a more precise way, I agree that the point edit mode works well. It is the "adjust small ranges of tonal shades" use case where it fails. I don't need the latter often but when I do, using the points is very laborious and often I feel like stopping before I got what I wanted because it is just too much of a hassle to fight all the ripple through effects.

Missing Basic and Tone Curve Panel in LR5

Last night I installed LR5 (last version was LR3) on my iMac with Mavericks OS and everything was working fine, I thought, and I was using the Develop Module when I noticed the Basic Panel and Tone Curve Panel (which I had been using) had gone missing . As in, poof, they were gone. So now I have the Histogram, the Crop and other tools and brushes, and then nothing until HSL/Color/B&W and then on down.

I'm cheating here with another question, but I think it will be quick: I see LR5 automatically uses the updated interface for Highlights, Shadows, Blacks, Whites and I see they are more precise and subtle. Can I go to photos adjusted in LR3 that still show the LR3 interface and use the LR5 interface & finer adjustments on the old photos?

How does one add a personal recorded M4R file to the ring tones in the UK system for iPhone 3GS

How does one add a personal recorded M4R file to the ring tones in the UK system for iPhone 3GS.
I have tried all sorts of ways of adding my personal M4R file but can't find the place (within the UK versions of iTunes} to transfer this file so that I can select it as a ring tone.
I've tried also changing to the US version of iTunes and still can't find a way of doing it, although I have heard that it can be done.

You should be able to just drop it into the library within iTunes.
http://cnettv.cnet.com/create-free-iphone-ringtones-using-itunes-8-0/9742-1_53-5 0003920.html
Check out the video above for a lot good info. The ringtone must be less than 35 seconds.

Where are the Tone Curve presets in the Lightroom Presets folder?

Hi
I have recenty had to reinstall all my software, and manged to find most of my old Lightroom settings in the Lightroom Presets folder (inside the Appdata folder on a PC) but I seem to have lost my custom tone curves.
Do you know which folder they should be in (indise the Lightroom Presets folder)
Thanks in advance
PS: I STILL don't understand why there are TWO comminty forums for Lightroom; it just doesn't make sense to me?!
Edward

Edward Allen wrote:
PS: I STILL don't understand why there are TWO comminty forums for Lightroom; it just doesn't make sense to me?!
You aren't the only one, and neither is going away any time soon.

I am working in the Develop module of Lightroom 5 and have accidentally bumped a setting and lost the Basic menu and the option to retrieve it. "Tone curve" is directly under the tool bar now. How can I retrieve the "Basic" menu?

How can I retrieve the "Basic" menu on Lightroom 5? I accidentally bumped something while working in the Develop module of Lightroom 5, and now the Tone Curve menu is directly under the Tool Bar, with no option to click on "Basic."

Right-click on Tone Curve and choose basic again or press Ctrl+1 in Develop.
On Mac (Control-Click or Cmd+1)

The Zone System (Linear Tone Curve?)

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