Time remapping in 24p vs 60p sequence

I'm using 96fps footage from GH4 and go from fast to slow speed ramps all day long. When doing so in 60p sequences I get far smoother playback when ramping the speed up since there are obviously more frames per second in this sequence vs. the 24p sequence (choppy looking). Since I create the entire project in 24p for film, how can I get the 60p smoothness for the slow mo shots to work that way in the 24p sequence? Nesting does not seem to help, it makes the clips look even more jittery. I feel like I am missing something simple here. Thanks guys.

Mike Delaney wrote:
… I have heard a lot about 24p being cinematic …
that is one of the unstopable legends in the net ......
24p is for celloloid, a compromise of quality vs. costs, created in the 1920s, 18 inch per sec of 35mm film.
what has the frame-rate to do with 'film-look'?
first hand - nothing.
'film' look is based upon color, contrast, depth of field and motion-blurr - which IS hard to accomplish, when frame-rate is 60fps. you can acomplish a film-look with any frame-rate ....
2nd: video/TV/Youtube are based upon 25/30fps ... so, any 'cinematic' source needs a) slight speed-up or b) a complicated, pulldown, quality lossy process ...
if you don't publish your recordings in the next Cineplex, stay with 25/30.
60p-recording is nice in a 25/30 project, 'cause you can create super smooth slowmos.
not every delivery media or monitor supports 60p ......

Similar Messages

Time remapping on stills, can't turn off?

I'm doing a montage of stills. I used the 'speed' function to set the 'duration' of the clips. Now I suddenly find that there is 'time remapping' on many of the stills (which I didn't apply - but maybe something weird happened when I set the 'duration' in the 'speed' box) ...
Some of these 'time remappings' I can simply delete in the Motion tab of the Viewer. But some will not allow themselves to be deleted. Complete mystery to me.
Any advice?
Ben

Thank you guys,
I think it must have something to do with setting the 'duration' in the 'speed' function. Should never have tried to set the length\duration of the clip using the 'speed' function. I'm going back to the original stills, which don't have any time-remapping. And rebuild the sequence, avoiding the 'speed' function.
Your suggestions much appreciated,
Ben

Time remapping / slow motion extremely jumpy with nested sequence!

I have just finished the rough-cut of a ceremony when I went back to add effects-- slow motion, color correct, etc. only to find that ANY time-change is jittery-- extremely jittery, like it's skipping frames.
For trial purposes I created a new timeline with only one video clip placed multiple times. I reduced one to 50% with frame-blending, the other 50% with NO frame-blending and the final using time re-mapping with frame-blending. At 50% I don't expect fluid movement, but they are all acceptable... Until I put a different timeline in the timeline (I think it's a "nested sequence").
When speed is slowed on ANY nested sequence it is jittery. Whether it is a single nested sequence or a multi-camera sequence, it jumps.
Has anyone else had this problem?! Is this a bug? I never noticed it until this wedding. I am using CS3 and I cannot afford the time to re-edit this ceremony with 2.0.... Unless I have no choice.

Hi Wil,
I have tried using both. Time remapping on the clip (not nested) works fine, so does 'speed change.' But both time remapping and speed change result in jumpy frames when applied to a nested sequenced clip.
I tried this on another (much lower system) and have found the same results. I am begining to think it is the footage but it seems odd that it is perfect when applied to a clip in the timeline but NOT to a timeline in the timeline (nested).
I am on vacation and do not have access to a faster machine until next late next week but for now I will try the export again to be sure Encore sees the same thing.
I am dumbfounded because I had been using 1.5, then 2.0 and now CS3 for weddings for years and have never noticed this. I have noticed it on the both the last project and now this current one.
I thought it could have been the original footage (or a camera problem except that the problems are not there until a nested sequence comes along. I will try moving the footage to my internal drive now and see what happens...
Thank you so far for giving me ideas.

Time remapping a nested sequence results in black/empty video

Hey!
I have a long sequence (47 minutes), which I wish to time remap (to increase the speed at certain Keyframes). I have therefore nested the sequence into a Master Sequence, where I perform the time remapping. However I experience what appears to be a weird bug: At a certain frame the video turns black/empty and stays that way - even though the original sequence still has video material.
It doesn't help splitting the clip (nested sequence) up in smaller clips and time remap those individually - the empty frames just appear earlier in each clip.
Export works fine
When I export the sequence as Media, the output seems fine however.
I hope, that you are able to help me or tell me, if I'm doing something wrong.
Thanks in advance!
Hardware info
I work on a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014).

it depends on how powerful the video card is, and how many accelerated effects are being used. it might slow you down a little, or alot. if you have an intel graphics, they arent very powerful to begin with, basically just good for browsing the web. however premiere tries to use them and they cause lots of problems. im not sure if its premiere or intel thats causing the problem, but they dont play nice together. if you have the nvidia version macbook, you might have opencl or cuda available in the renderer menu. if it was on opencl, could try cuda, or opencl if it was on cuda.

FCP clip time remapping / speed ramping question re realtime after changes?

Hello All,
My first post here! I tried searches for this topic but didn't find....
I wasted hours today messing with the keyframe editor to try and ramp parts of a single clip... first time using this feature and couldn't follow the manual! way too difficult to grasp without fluency in 'techygeekconfusic' lingo. Anyway, I don't think the topic was covered from what I read in my version of the manual.
So I went straight for the keyframe editor graphic display under the clip in timeframe and put in a few points with the pen tool (using time graph blue line) and seemed to be going great until I realised that the segments in the single clip (ten minutes long) that I was adjusting were affecting what came after - ie slowing down the remainder of the clip. And that was all I could get from my manual that this happened without any explanation about stopping it happen by letting the outpoint of the clip readjust automatically for the changes made to that part of clip so that altered clip would be shorter in timeline...
I then tried again from the start but noting the minus time on pentool arrow when I slid each keyframe point back and subtracting it from the duration in motion tab and that seemed to work for a while...
but God bless my little brain! what I really wanted to happen - for the blasted thing to readjust itself automatically after I had adjusted a segment of the clip so that the remaining non-adjusted part would play in realtime with a new shorter outpoint in the sequence timeline - just couldn't be realised in my little brain or in the 'user friendly' control panels of FCP.
I tried to get hold of the 'bezier' point at the end of clip and drag forward at the same rate as each change but could'nt get hold of it! I tried to put two points with pen tool at same time but couldn't isolate them from one another to create four points for adjustment without having still frames between.. blah blah.. I tried to get snapping to the pen tool points for further control but couldn't... duh!
Please! how do you do it! obviously I have limited intelligence but I need to do this now. I want to adjust the 10 minute clip (DVCproHD 720p24N format - not that this should matter as my sequence settings are same) adjust the clip at maybe 10 different places so that it ramps in speed to cover up some boring areas and then back to normal speed after the changes - not back to some slo mo **! speed.
I tried cutting with the razor tool to isolate and that didn't work either and other analogue brain type stuff ok I know you are laughing at me now but please help?!! I'm pretty new to this stuff, give me the old reliable Steenbeck and a few real bins and strips of film hanging on clothes pegs and I'll be ok...
Help will be most gratefully appreciated!!!!!!!!
Barra
Message was edited by: BarraAppleId

Andy did a very good job explaining the underlying problem with the time remap tool.
The key thing to remember is the first and last frame are fixed in time. If you speed up the clip, time after that keyframe will have to slow down to compensate. Imagine the clip is a rubber band that has been cut so that it is a long string-like form. Now imagine anchoring each end of it with a push pin to a board. If you grab a point on the band and pull it toward one of the pins, the part of the band on the side you are pulling away from the anchor will stretch (run slower) and the side you are pulling toward will bunch up (run faster). But, when all is done, the start and end will still be at the fixed points.
The way I've worked through this is to make a general guesstimate of how long the clip will be once all the ramping is complete. For example, I want the clip to start at normal (100%) speed and ramp up to 300% and back down to 100%. I might start with a clip having a constant speed of 200% and then change it to variable and play with it. The key concept is if you can get the overall LENGTH to where it should be, the rest works out fine.
I have repeatedly asked in the FEEDBACK/New Features page that they add a toggle to the speed/time remap tools. This toggle should allow you decide whether the playback TIME for the clip should be fixed or flexible.
For example, if you were working with a 4 second clip and wish to slow it down by 50% -
If 'Maintain Time' is toggled ON, when you decrease the speed of clip by 50% - the clip will still play for 4 sec (but will show only half the total frames).
If the toggle is OFF, the 4 sec clip will now play for 8 sec and will display all the frames.
Where this concept becomes really powerful is when it's applied to time remap. If you have 'Maintain time' toggled OFF, as you adjust speed, the end point of the clip will float in time. If you increase the speed, the overall time of the clip will shrink. If you slow it down, the end point moves out in time.
We need to keep asking ...
x

Media Encoder fails with Time Remapping

There is a single 1 Minute Clip in the PR CC 2014 timeline, with some time remapping effects. Exporting with Media Encoder CC 2014 SLOWS DOWN speed of the clip after approx. 30 sec unintentionally and therefore gets out of sync with sound, and ends at a complete different frame than in the timeline.
However, exporting directly from PR CC 2014 gives correct result.
Anyway, this looks like a major "feature" of ME!?!
(MacBook Pro 2013, 15", 2,6 GHz i7, OS X 10.9.4)

source is an uncompressed HD 1080 QT .mov file rendered from AE.
sequence settings are 1920x1080, 25fps, square, progressive
export settings are QT, H.264, 1920x1080, 25fps, progr, square, 20000kbps

Repeated frames when time remapping AVCHD clips in AE

I will try to explain the best I can. Keep in mind I am a novice and by no means highly technical. First some background: I edit sports video for college bound athletes. I put together highlight videos for them. When I am filming I start/stop the camera at the beginning/end of a play so I can easily identify/edit "clips". I have imported 10 AVCHD "clips" from my Sony HDR-SR11 to a Premiere Pro CS4 project. I am using the "AVCHD 1080i anamorphic/29.97fps" sequence setting as my output for this project will be a 1440x1080 mepeg2 file. So I get my clips in the timeline add some transitions, no major edits, render the work area and playback. Everything looks fine, all clips play smooth. Now here's the rub. I want to freeze play, highlight an athlete then continue play. To do this I am using AFTER EFFECTS (NOTE I have done this with HDV footage off my Canon HV20 camera with no problems) so anyway with the new CS4 edition I can right click on a clip in my timeline and choose "replace with after effects composition"....I do and the clip migrates to AE into a a composition ready for me to work my magic. So my method for freezing play is select the "clip" in the composition, Ctrl-Alt-T for time remapping. I add 5 seconds to the duration of the composition since I am going to add time when I freeze the clip. I find the point in the clip where I want to freeze it. I place a "time remap" keyframe at that point. I then drag my mouse to highlight the keyframe I just placed and the keyframe at the end of the clip......I drag them to the right 2 seconds, then cut/paste the keyframe I added which is placed by the CTI (which is still at the original point). Now I have a 2 second freeze in play. I add a white solid and do some masking to highlight the athlete during that freeze. And that's it.....I press "O" then "N" to define the work area then I choose "trim comp to work area" from the composition menu. I repeat this process to all my clips and here is where I see the problem. I go back to my timeline in PP and I play the clips......I see my freeze/highlight edits from AE just fine but on SOME clips......2 out of 5 for example.....I get jittery playback. So I decided to scrub thru the clip frame by frame to see what is going on. So within 29 frames this is what I see. Girl is getting ready to serve a volleyball....Frame 1-15....she steps forward to serve THEN at frame 18 she pops back to the starting point...IT LOOKS LIKE FRAMES 1-12 ARE BEING REPEATED. I scrub the rest of the clip and this happens at random points....a small block of frames gets repeated throughout the clip which in the end looks like "jitter" or "jumpy" motion. I follow the same workflow in AE for each clip BUT this "jitter" does not happen on every clip...only some. So is my workflow at fault or is AE/PP/Adobe still buggy when it comes to working with AVCHD codec?? Anyone else experience this, if so do you have a fix?

I haven't tested your theory yet Andrew but I did do this. In trying to track down exactly where these repeated frames are occurring. In AE I redid one clip that was repeating frames. I went frame by frame in AE and see no repeated frames. These changes should occur automatically in PP since the AE comp is still dynamically linked to my PP timeline. So I scrubbed the "source" (AE comp) file from the PP project panel frame by frame. And low and behold there are repeated frames, so it appears the problem is the handoff from AE to PP Sooooooo, ok I deleted the source file in the PP project panel and reimport it via dynamic link. Open the clip in the source monitor and yes...repeated frames at same point....recheck the comp in AE....no repeated frames. Delete the clip from PP project panel and this time import the clip directly instead of dynamic link.....repeated frames still there. So how about rendering the clip in AE the old fashion way then import to PP. AE Render Queue best settings - lossless.....blah blah blah. I ended up with an .avi file with no repeated frames. So to me the problem is the handoff between AE & PP. So rendering my AVCHD comps in AE first is my work around for now. Andrew...thanks! I will try your theory of converting the clip prior to the comp asap...right now I am trying to meet a deadline.

Undesired time remapping

This one has me stumped. I'm thinking it's related to render files, but can't quite figure it out.
Had a piece that contained several clips that were speed-reduced to 40%. Not strictly time-remapped with keyframes and all, just speed reduced.
Piece was great, rendered all, compressed, delivered. All was well.
Then, to open up some space on the hard disk for the next project, I made a couple of poorly-thought-out stabs at removing unused clips with media manager and/or find:unused. These didn't really go anywhere, and I don't believe I actually ended up removing any clips. Some were briefly offlined, then reconnected, but none were actually removed.
What did happen was FCP gave me some funky time-remapping in clips that were never time-remapped to begin with.
Any ideas how this might happen? When I play the master sequence down in FCP, everything looks great, but when I double-click on some of the clips in the sequence and view them in the viewer, they're all screwed up; time remapped, jittery, just weird, and not at all like they appear in the sequence.
When I export the current master sequence to compressor, it doesn't come out looking like it does when I play it in the canvas...it comes out with the individual clip weirdness that I see when I view the clips individually in the viewer.
So I'm wondering if when I play the sequence I'm looking at the render files, but when I open the clips I'm looking at...something else?
And to add to the weirdness, when I open my backup project file, I get exactly the same weirdness.
Ideas?

are the original QT capture files normal or have they been affected?
i know when i have done time remapping (just reducing speed) and then have dumped the original files only to recapture them later that if I dont recapture them on the exact hard drives listed during reconnecting the media, that fcp screws everything up.
7 second clips contain minutes and minutes of footage.....that or a 7 sec. clip will be a still shot that I never used.
I have found media manager to never work properly so i just dont use it anymore.....
if you have time try and recapture all the original footage on the original hdrives and see if that helps.....
thats the best i can do....so i hope it helps.....
rob

FCP XML to Flint - Problems with Time Remap

My Flint artist and I have had some problems with the XML Export and Import that we cannot figure out. The XMLs from FCP sequences that have variable speed Time Remaps applied show up on the Flint with those particular clips with the wrong in/out points in both the source and record times. Also, the speed ramp info doesn't show up properly.
We have followed the Flint manual to a T on importing correctly. Anyone encountered this or know a solution? Especially why it's throwing off the in points. It screws the whole timeline when that happens.
Thanks in advance.

The TimerEvent target is a flash.utils.Timer object and does
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Recode
trace("Seconds Left" + evt.target.lblTimeUntil.text);
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This code will display the count up till refresh.
public function onTick(evt:TimerEvent):void {
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Removing time-remapping deletes clip

I'm doing something wrong here, and I know it's probably a very simple mistake.
I implemented a time-remapping segment in a clip in CS6. Then, I attempted to remove it using the following instructions from the site:
Remove the Time Remapping effect
You cannot toggle the Time Remapping effect on and off like other effects. Enabling and disabling Time Remapping affects the duration of the clip instance in a Timeline. In effect, Time Remapping performs an edit. However, you can use the Toggle Animation control in the Effect Controls panel.
Click the Effect Controls tab to make this panel active.
Click the triangle next to Time Remapping to open it.
Click the Toggle Animation button next to the word Speed, to set it to the off position. This action deletes any existing speed keyframes, and disables Time Remapping for the selected clip.
The problem: instead of just deleting the speed keyframes, when I clicked "okay" it deleted the entire clip from the timeline.
What am I doing wrong?
Kathleen

Thanks for the quick response. I just repeated my steps exactly:
Loaded sequence with single video clip in Timeline track Video 1.
Right-clicked on clip to display - Show Clip Keyframes/Time Remapping/Speed
Added two keyframes to the clip.
Lowered the yellow control line to 40% between the two keyframes
Stretched the right side of first keyframe and left side of second keyframe to create more of a transition in speed.
Reviewed the clip to see the effect. And then went to remove it.
Highlighted the clip in Timeline
Went to Effects Control panel and clicked on the “stopwatch” next to Speed to toggle it.
Got a prompt: “This action will delete existing keyframes. Do you want to continue?”
Clicked OK and the entire clip disappeared from the sequence.
Any help appreciated.
Kathleen

Time remapping issue

I have a clip that I want to play at a regular speed and then slow down at the end. When I make keyframes and adjust them in the time remap menu box I am running into problems with it slowing down to the desired speed but then speeding up the last couple of frames. What gives?
PS I have already watched Captain Mench's video....

It's a difficult concept. Your clip is, say, 120 frames, four seconds long. If you change the frame rate to something else, all of those frame must still play. You can get around this at least two different ways. Place your clip in an empty sequence and make your adjustments. Copy and paste only the piece that you want back into your main sequence.
Or you can place one additional time remap keyframe just a few frames before the end of the clip. This forces all of your unused frames to play between the second and final keyframe.
bogiesan

Edit rotation - then time remapping - keyframes for rotation don't sync

I have some footage that requires quite a bit of rotational correction which worked fine. I then need to slow some of it down. I used time remapping. This resulted in the correct slow motion but the key frames for the rotation editing did not "stretch" with original footage. So the rotation editing now occurs in the wrong places.
Am I using the wrong sequence for editing? Or is there away to make the keyframes adjust accordingly when the footage is remapped.
Thanks

Nest the rotation then apply remaping...or vice versa .

Premiere CS6 - keyframed scaling is not working with RED footage when Time Remapping is used

Hello,
My system is: Win7, Premiere CS6 (6.0.5), 12GB RAM, etc...
My project settings: I'm using 1080p RED timeline.
Steps:
Using 4K RED footage with "Scale to frame size" disabled after placing the clip on timeline.
Under effects time remapping is set to 50%.
Motion->Scale is keyframed from 50% to 100% to achieve zoom in effect while preserving image quality.
Clip stays at 50% Scale ignoring the keyframes.
Problem is present during preview and in the exported file. I tried with CUDA enabled and disabled and problem persists.
If I turn off Time Remapping, then the clip responds to scaling keyframes.
Is there any workouround or can this bug be fixed?
Thanks!

Thanks.
This seems to work but I had to apply TR to the nested sequence and scaling to the original clip.
Otherwise scaling operations are messed up.
This situation reminds me of after effects and effects processing order.

Time Remapped Dolly Shot, Smooth in AE, but Jerky in Rendering

Hi,
My workflow: Canon h.264 original footage transcoded to ProRes 4444 in Compressor. Imported to HD project in AE, footage time remapped to smooth out uneveness in dolly speed, with Frame Blending turned on. AE 5.5 Mac OS 10.6
My question is that the ram preview below is relatively smooth, but when I exported a PR4444 sequence to FCP, once in the timeline it's jerky and stutters. (Forgive the sloppy mask, it's now fixed). The stutters and jerks also appear when playing the 4444 clip back in QT10, and Vimeo.
Any suggestions? Pixel Motion needed?
http://vimeo.com/39895088
Jesse

> My question is that the ram preview below is relatively smooth, but when I exported a PR4444 sequence to FCP, once in the timeline it's jerky and stutters. (Forgive the sloppy mask, it's now fixed). The stutters and jerks also appear when playing the 4444 clip back in QT10, and Vimeo.<
Depends on what your set up is in FCP. I'm going to assume you know what you're doing in FCP as far as how to set sequences properly and you know the limitations of your machine.
> Yes I'm aware of the timeline issues, and had hoped that once exported/rendered out of fcp that it would go away. The above link was a Vimeo compressed RAM preview out of AE And that plays smoothly!. Not out of fcp however. <
Well, exporting out of FCP is not really part of this equation. If you export to the codec you're using for your playback of the finished project, say, H.264 or MP4 or MPEG2, the clip will play perfectly within the capabilites of your machine and the player app you are using.
> Would it help to see what it looks like out of fcp on Vimeo? <
Nope. The vimeo clip will always play fine because, regardless of what it started out as, when you upload to vimeo it is transocded to the vimeo-friendly codec.
> Do you think this is because of the heaviness of the 4444 clip?<
Not liekly. Heavy, maybe, but ProRes is designed to be used without issues in FCP on Macs in Quicktime. One uses 4444 only if one needs the alpha. If you don't need the alpha, any of the 422s will work fine. I didn't see the mask you mentioned so I don't know why you're using 4444. It is not often that 4444 cannot be played in FCP unless the pixel dimensions are just too large or you've chosen a weird frame rate. In that case, the clip must be heavily processed before it can fit the timeline's settings.
I find the time remapping and motion smoothing capabilites of Apple Motion's optical flow functions are completely adequate for all but the most extreme screwups encountered while shooting.
Message was edited by: bogiesan

Time remapping lip sync issue.

I'll try to explain this the best way I know how.
I created a pre-comp for my character mouths (as shown in the picture below). I then created a Null Layer and parented the Time Remapping of the mouth pre-comp to the Null Layer "rotation" using the principals of this video:
Part 1: "Using Time Remapping For Lip-Sync Part 01"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5GIOtfYWpQ
Part 2: "Using Time Remapping For Lip-Sync Part 02"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNJgUz1t2rU
I'm sure this is not new.
My problem is that when I render the video the mouths do not reflect what is shown during editing... While I am editing I can ram render a small portion and the mouths will line up as I intend but once I do a final rendering they are slightly off at times... What am I doing wrong here?
The screen shot shows that I am in my 'Mouths, LG' pre-comp and the cursor is situated to show "layer 23" in the "Mouths, LG pre-comp"... Now the preview window is showing one mouth for layer 23 (the wrong mouth) and when I open layer 23 you can see that a different mouth is shown towards the top left side of my attached image. I believe whatever is causing this is the problem but I don't know how to make it right.
I'm running windows 7 64bit if that matters and I am running After Effects CS6 Version 11.0.2.12
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Are you nesting your Mouths comp in a main comp, enabling Time Remapping on that nested Mouths precomp and then animating? I can't tell from your screen shots.
And BEFORE nesting it, I'd also make that Mouths comp 1 frame shorter to eliminate that one empty frame at the end.
Nothing like instructions in the wrong sequence, right?

Time remapping in 24p vs 60p sequence

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