Undeploying SOA composite outside em Console

Hi,
In case my EM console is not coming up due to some error in a particular composite. Is it possible to undeploy the BPEL composite outside the em console?
Is the jar file stored in some path in UNIX server (my server is hosted in unix). And can i directly remove the jar file and restart the server.
Thanks

Hi Amit
1. NO, you cannot UnDeploy Workflow Composite JAR from Weblogic Admin Console (httP://host:port/console). You can UnDeploy only from EM and using ANT Scripts.
2. Undeploy using EM and ANT Scripts will also do some background cleanup like removing the processes, some details from backend soa_infra database once the process is undeployed. So use only EM or ANT Scripts. DO NOT use Admin Console or Directly deleting the physical file from server folder.
3. See the below links/posts for more details: You can Deploy or UnDeploy using ANT scripts
a) http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E12839_01/integration.1111/e10224/sca_lifecycle.htm#CACJIACG
See the sample command here. You do need the admin username/password for the soa server where you want to deploy/undeploy the above jar file. The ANt scripts available in the Middleware_Home\SOA_Suite_Home\bin something like: C:\Oracle\Middleware115BPM\Oracle_SOA1\bin
b) Re: how to undeploy soa project using ant instead using em manually
Thanks
Ravi Jegga

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    What other parameters are you using to query the database? host, database, etc... Are them the SAME you see on the connection pool above? I bet something is different...
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    <project xsi:schemaLocation="http://maven.apache.org/POM/4.0.0 http://maven.apache.org/xsd/maven-4.0.0.xsd" xmlns="http://maven.apache.org/POM/4.0.0" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
             <!--
               This POM was automatically generated during SOA project creation.          
               This POM relates to this SOA Composite, i.e. the one in this same directory.
               There is another POM in the SOA Application directory which handles
               the whole SOA Application, which may contain additional projects.
            -->
        <modelVersion>4.0.0</modelVersion>
        <groupId>TestSOAApp</groupId>
        <artifactId>${composite.name}</artifactId>   
      <version>${composite.version}</version>
        <packaging>sar</packaging>
        <!--
               The parent points to the common SOA parent POM.  That is a special POM that is
               shipped by Oracle as a point of customization (only). You can add default values
               for properties like serverUrl, etc. to the SOA common parent POM, so that you
               do not have to specify them over and over in every project POM.
        -->
        <!--<parent>
            <groupId>com.oracle.soa</groupId>
            <artifactId>sar-common</artifactId>
            <version>12.1.3-0-0</version>
        </parent>-->
        <properties>
      <!-- These parameters are used by the compile goal -->
      <code.basedir>${soa.app.source}/${project.artifactId}</code.basedir>
            <scac.input.dir>${code.basedir}/SOA</scac.input.dir>
            <scac.output.dir>${project.basedir}/target</scac.output.dir>
            <scac.input>${scac.input.dir}/composite.xml</scac.input>
            <scac.output>${scac.output.dir}/out.xml</scac.output>
            <scac.error>${scac.output.dir}/error.txt</scac.error>
            <scac.displayLevel>1</scac.displayLevel>
      <!-- if you are using a config plan, uncomment the following line and update to point
                 to your config plan -->
            <configplan>${code.basedir}/${project.artifactId}_cfgplan.xml</configplan>
      <!-- These parameters are used by the deploy and undeploy goals -->
      <composite.name>${project.artifactId}</composite.name>
      <composite.revision>${project.version}</composite.revision>       
      <composite.partition>default</composite.partition>
            <serverUrl>http://${target.hostname}:${target.port}</serverUrl>       
            <!--user>weblogic</user>
            <password>${pwd}</password-->       
      <overwrite>true</overwrite>
            <forceDefault>true</forceDefault>
            <regenerateRulebase>false</regenerateRulebase>
            <keepInstancesOnRedeploy>false</keepInstancesOnRedeploy>
            <!--<jndi.properties.input>UNDEFINED</jndi.properties.input>-->
            <scatest.result>${scac.output.dir}/testResult</scatest.result>
            <!--  input is the name of the composite to run test suties against -->
            <input>${project.artifactId}</input>       
            <!--<scac.ant.buildfile>${env.MW_HOME}/soa/bin/ant-sca-compile.xml</scac.ant.buildfile>
            <sca.ant.testfile>${env.MW_HOME}/soa/bin/ant-sca-test.xml</sca.ant.testfile>
            -->
        </properties>
      <build>
           <plugins>
       <plugin>
      <groupId>org.codehaus.mojo</groupId>
      <artifactId>properties-maven-plugin</artifactId>
      <version>1.0-alpha-2</version>
      <executions>
       <execution>
      <phase>initialize</phase>
      <goals>
       <goal>read-project-properties</goal>
      </goals>
      <configuration>
       <files>
      <file>build-${env}.properties</file>
       </files>
      </configuration>
       </execution>
      </executions>
       </plugin>
      <plugin>
      <groupId>org.apache.maven.plugins</groupId>
      <artifactId>maven-antrun-plugin</artifactId>
      <version>1.6</version>
      <executions>
      <execution>
      <id>read-input</id>
      <phase>prepare-package</phase>
      <inherited>false</inherited>
      <goals>
      <goal>run</goal>
      </goals>
      <configuration>
      <target>
      <property name="fmw.app.basedir" value="${soa.app.source}" />
      <property name="fmw.composite.name" value="${project.artifactId}" />
      <property name="configplan.target.path" value="${scac.output.dir}" />
      <ant antfile="${project.basedir}/replace-tokens.xml" target="replaceConfig" />
      </target>
      </configuration>
      </execution>
      </executions>
      </plugin>
                <plugin>
                    <groupId>com.oracle.soa.plugin</groupId>
                    <artifactId>oracle-soa-plugin</artifactId>
                    <version>12.1.3-0-0</version>
                    <configuration>
                        <compositeName>${project.artifactId}</compositeName>
                        <composite>${scac.input}</composite>
                        <sarLocation>${scac.output.dir}/sca_${project.artifactId}_rev${composite.revision}.jar</sarLocation>
                        <serverUrl>${serverUrl}</serverUrl>
      <user>{}</user>            
      <password>{}</password>
                        <!-- Note: compositeRevision is needed to package, revision is needed to undeploy -->
                        <compositeRevision>${composite.revision}</compositeRevision>
                        <revision>${composite.revision}</revision>
                        <scacInputDir>${scac.input.dir}</scacInputDir>                   
      <input>${input}</input>
      <!--<appHome>${soa.app.source}</appHome>
      <oracleHome>${oracle.home}/soa</oracleHome>                   
      <configplan>${scac.output.dir}/${project.artifactId}_cfgplan_generated.xml</configplan>-->
                    </configuration>
                     <!-- extensions=true is needed to use the custom sar packaging type -->
                    <extensions>true</extensions>
                </plugin>
            </plugins>
        </build>
    </project>
    replace-tokens.xml:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
    <project name="EA_SOA_Build"  default="replaceConfig">
      <target name="replaceConfig">
      <echo>Replacing tokens in configuration file</echo>
      <!-- Following logic copies the dev deployment plan and generates one to meet the target environment. -->
      <delete failonerror="true" file="${fmw.app.basedir}/${fmw.composite.name}/${fmw.composite.name}_cfgplan_generated.xml"/>
      <copy overwrite="true" failonerror="true"
      file  ="${fmw.app.basedir}/${fmw.composite.name}/${fmw.composite.name}_cfgplan.xml"
      tofile="${configplan.target.path}/${fmw.composite.name}_cfgplan_generated.xml"/>
      <replace file="${configplan.target.path}/${fmw.composite.name}_cfgplan_generated.xml">   
       <!-- replace filter for soa source and target endpoints. -->
       <replacefilter token="dmnh1i.manheim.com" value="dmnh2i.manheim.com" />  
      </replace>
      </target>
    </project>
    build-local.properties:
    soa.app.source=D:/Oracle_SOA12c13/Jdev_mywork/OVCApp
    mds.outer.dir=D:/Oracle_SOA12c13/Jdev_mywork/OVCApp/MDS
    target.hostname=localhost
    target.port=7001
    oracle.home=D:/Oracle_SOA12c13/Middleware/Oracle_Home

    hi,
    Can i pass multiple composite name like
    mvn pre-integration-test –f soa-pom.xml –Dcomposite.name=TestSOAProj –Dcomposite.name2="xxx"
    can you please suggest me for same.
    Hint- passing project1,project2.....

  • Not able to see code in SOA composite.

    I have pre-built SOA composite with me and able open it in Jdev
    But the problem is when trying ti open composite.xml file, empty console with msg "drag and drop components from palete"
    But able to deploy it in SOA successfully.
    My aim is to see CODE in that file
    Can any one help on this.

    Also,
    Where is the pre-built SOA composite coming from, did you create it with a previous version of JDeveloper? what is the version that you are using, if you go to the source tab, does it show empty?
    - Juan Camilo

  • Will B2B Adapter in SOA Composite receives fault when validation fails ?

    Hi Guys,
    Can any one clarify the following questions on B2B ?
    1. Can B2B Adapter receive exception whenever validation fails on b2b console after data sent from SOA Composite? if not how can we implement fault to soa composite in case of fault in b2b console?
    2. How can SOA Composite having b2b adapter configured with send operation know about fault happened in b2b console due agreement fail or validation fails or configuration fails?
    3. How can we handle faults in case of inbound scenario?

    Exception is handled in oracle b2b.
    All the execeptions are sent to IP_IN_QUEUE( in case of AQ) and B2B_IN_QUEUE( in case of JMS) with the consumer as "b2berror".
    You can configure your B2B adapter to pull out the exception messages in your soa composite.

  • Unable to deploy the SOA composite through the EM

    Hi,
    I have created SOA Composite project (version 11.1.1.1.0). This is a simple project which takes message from one JMS queue and puts in another JMS queue.
    Now I wanted to deploy this in another instance of the SOA Suite( version 11.1.1.3.0). When I use Jdeveloper, I can create Application connection to new SOA Suite and deploy the project directly to the new SOA_Suite. and it is working. I have deployed the Project to a Jar file and tried to deploy the Project onto the new Soa suite using the Enterprise Manager console. But It failed giving the following reason ...
    Invalid archive: [J2EE:160112] Error
    The directory, 'D:\oracle\11gR1SOAPS2\user_projects\domains\base_domain\sysman\upload\stage\sca_CacheOrderHeader_rev1upload39341\archive\sca_CacheOrderHeader_rev1.02.jar', does not contain a valid module. If the directory represents an ear file, it must contain a META-INF/application.xml file. If the directory represents an ejb-jar file, it must contain a META-INF/ejb-jar.xml file. If the directory represents a war file, it must contain a WEB-INF/web.xml file. Please ensure the source directory is a valid module and try again.
    Can you please let me know if this error is occuring due to some change in the version of SOA suites ..? Or am I missing something here. Please let me know ..
    Thanks,
    Raj Kumar

    The above error indicates that you are trying to deploy as an application instead of SOA composite. Are you sure that, you are trying to deploy from SOA Infrastructure menu?

  • Deploying a SOA COmposite using WLST

    Hi,
    can any one tell me step by step procedure to deploy an SOA composite using WLST..
    Thanks in advance..

    Hi,
    Go to the similar directory in your server in the command prompt...
    C:\Oracle\Middleware\home_11g\Oracle_SOA1\common\bin
    execute the WLST command..., wlst.cmd for windows, wlst.sh for unix...
    now...
    before executing the deploy command, make sure you generate the SAR file for the composite by deploy--->deploy to SAR--->check the file should be there under the project directory source location.
    now back to the command prompt...
    wls:/offline>sca_deployComposite(serverURL="http://localhost:8001",user="weblogic",password="welcome1",partition="Enterprise",sarLocation="C:\work\Test-App\WLSTSoaService\deploy\sca_WLSTSoaService_rev1.0.jar",forceDefault=true,overwrite=true);
    press enter, then the command will be executed successfully...
    check the composite in the EM console, it will be there.
    Hope this helps,
    N

  • Unable to start em after deploying SOA composites

    Hi
    I have installed SOA 11.1.1.1.3 and cretaed the repositories. I have created a new domain soa_domain which supports SOA,Enterprise Manager,BAM.
    The first time I started the server, it started successfully and I was able to deploy two SOA composites and also test them successfully through the em console.
    Today I restarted my admin server and I find the following logs during startup:
    ####<Jan 6, 2011 10:07:47 AM GMT+05:30> <Warning> <J2EE> <INMUCHPC00278> <AdminServer> <[ACTIVE] ExecuteThread: '1' for queue: 'weblogic.kernel.Default (self-tuning)'> <<anonymous>> <> <> <1294288667512> <BEA-160195> <The application version lifecycle event listener oracle.security.jps.wls.listeners.JpsAppVersionLifecycleListener is ignored because the application em is not versioned.>
    ####<Jan 6, 2011 10:07:58 AM GMT+05:30> <Warning> <HTTP> <INMUCHPC00278> <AdminServer> <[ACTIVE] ExecuteThread: '1' for queue: 'weblogic.kernel.Default (self-tuning)'> <<WLS Kernel>> <> <> <1294288678205> <BEA-101162> <User defined listener com.sun.faces.config.ConfigureListener failed: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: org.apache.xerces.impl.xs.XMLSchemaLoader.loadGrammar([Lorg/apache/xerces/xni/parser/XMLInputSource;)V.
    ####<Jan 6, 2011 10:07:58 AM GMT+05:30> <Error> <Deployer> <INMUCHPC00278> <AdminServer> <[ACTIVE] ExecuteThread: '1' for queue: 'weblogic.kernel.Default (self-tuning)'> <<WLS Kernel>> <> <> <1294288678441> <BEA-149231> <*Unable to set the activation state to true for the application 'em'.*
    weblogic.application.ModuleException:      at weblogic.servlet.internal.WebAppModule.startContexts(WebAppModule.java:1514)
         at weblogic.servlet.internal.WebAppModule.start(WebAppModule.java:486)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver$3.next(ModuleStateDriver.java:425)
         at weblogic.application.utils.StateMachineDriver.nextState(StateMachineDriver.java:41)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver.start(ModuleStateDriver.java:119)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ScopedModuleDriver.start(ScopedModuleDriver.java:200)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleListenerInvoker.start(ModuleListenerInvoker.java:247)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver$3.next(ModuleStateDriver.java:425)
         at weblogic.application.utils.StateMachineDriver.nextState(StateMachineDriver.java:41)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver.start(ModuleStateDriver.java:119)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.StartModulesFlow.activate(StartModulesFlow.java:27)
         at weblogic.application.internal.BaseDeployment$2.next(BaseDeployment.java:1267)
         at weblogic.application.utils.StateMachineDriver.nextState(StateMachineDriver.java:41)
         at weblogic.application.internal.BaseDeployment.activate(BaseDeployment.java:409)
         at weblogic.application.internal.EarDeployment.activate(EarDeployment.java:58)
         at weblogic.application.internal.DeploymentStateChecker.activate(DeploymentStateChecker.java:161)
         at weblogic.deploy.internal.targetserver.AppContainerInvoker.activate(AppContainerInvoker.java:79)
         at weblogic.deploy.internal.targetserver.BasicDeployment.activate(BasicDeployment.java:184)
         at weblogic.deploy.internal.targetserver.BasicDeployment.activateFromServerLifecycle(BasicDeployment.java:361)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentAdapter$1.doActivate(DeploymentAdapter.java:51)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentAdapter.activate(DeploymentAdapter.java:200)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.AppTransition$2.transitionApp(AppTransition.java:30)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.ConfiguredDeployments.transitionApps(ConfiguredDeployments.java:240)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.ConfiguredDeployments.activate(ConfiguredDeployments.java:169)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.ConfiguredDeployments.deploy(ConfiguredDeployments.java:123)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentServerService.resume(DeploymentServerService.java:180)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentServerService.start(DeploymentServerService.java:96)
         at weblogic.t3.srvr.SubsystemRequest.run(SubsystemRequest.java:64)
         at weblogic.work.ExecuteThread.execute(ExecuteThread.java:201)
         at weblogic.work.ExecuteThread.run(ExecuteThread.java:173)
    *Caused By: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: org.apache.xerces.impl.xs.XMLSchemaLoader.loadGrammar([Lorg/apache/xerces/xni/parser/XMLInputSource;)V*
         at org.apache.xerces.jaxp.validation.XMLSchemaFactory.newSchema(Unknown Source)
         at javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory.newSchema(SchemaFactory.java:594)
         at com.sun.faces.config.DbfFactory.initSchema(DbfFactory.java:151)
         at com.sun.faces.config.DbfFactory.<clinit>(DbfFactory.java:120)
         at com.sun.faces.config.ConfigManager$ParseTask.<init>(ConfigManager.java:372)
         at com.sun.faces.config.ConfigManager.getConfigDocuments(ConfigManager.java:280)
         at com.sun.faces.config.ConfigManager.initialize(ConfigManager.java:202)
         at com.sun.faces.config.ConfigureListener.contextInitialized(ConfigureListener.java:195)
         at weblogic.servlet.internal.EventsManager$FireContextListenerAction.run(EventsManager.java:481)
         at weblogic.security.acl.internal.AuthenticatedSubject.doAs(AuthenticatedSubject.java:321)
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         at weblogic.servlet.internal.WebAppServletContext.start(WebAppServletContext.java:3126)
         at weblogic.servlet.internal.WebAppModule.startContexts(WebAppModule.java:1512)
         at weblogic.servlet.internal.WebAppModule.start(WebAppModule.java:486)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver$3.next(ModuleStateDriver.java:425)
         at weblogic.application.utils.StateMachineDriver.nextState(StateMachineDriver.java:41)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver.start(ModuleStateDriver.java:119)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ScopedModuleDriver.start(ScopedModuleDriver.java:200)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleListenerInvoker.start(ModuleListenerInvoker.java:247)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver$3.next(ModuleStateDriver.java:425)
         at weblogic.application.utils.StateMachineDriver.nextState(StateMachineDriver.java:41)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.ModuleStateDriver.start(ModuleStateDriver.java:119)
         at weblogic.application.internal.flow.StartModulesFlow.activate(StartModulesFlow.java:27)
         at weblogic.application.internal.BaseDeployment$2.next(BaseDeployment.java:1267)
         at weblogic.application.utils.StateMachineDriver.nextState(StateMachineDriver.java:41)
         at weblogic.application.internal.BaseDeployment.activate(BaseDeployment.java:409)
         at weblogic.application.internal.EarDeployment.activate(EarDeployment.java:58)
         at weblogic.application.internal.DeploymentStateChecker.activate(DeploymentStateChecker.java:161)
         at weblogic.deploy.internal.targetserver.AppContainerInvoker.activate(AppContainerInvoker.java:79)
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         at weblogic.deploy.internal.targetserver.BasicDeployment.activateFromServerLifecycle(BasicDeployment.java:361)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentAdapter$1.doActivate(DeploymentAdapter.java:51)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentAdapter.activate(DeploymentAdapter.java:200)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.AppTransition$2.transitionApp(AppTransition.java:30)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.ConfiguredDeployments.transitionApps(ConfiguredDeployments.java:240)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.ConfiguredDeployments.activate(ConfiguredDeployments.java:169)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.ConfiguredDeployments.deploy(ConfiguredDeployments.java:123)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentServerService.resume(DeploymentServerService.java:180)
         at weblogic.management.deploy.internal.DeploymentServerService.start(DeploymentServerService.java:96)
         at weblogic.t3.srvr.SubsystemRequest.run(SubsystemRequest.java:64)
         at weblogic.work.ExecuteThread.execute(ExecuteThread.java:201)
         at weblogic.work.ExecuteThread.run(ExecuteThread.java:173)
    And when I check the Admin console,Deployments section, the em application status is shown as failed. I tried starting it up from the Admin Console as well.
    But no luck....
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    Regards
    Kshama

    When I mentioned I have deployed DBAdapter and JMSAdapter, I meant that, I added new outbound connection pools to the configuration and redeployed the adapters.
    Also, I compared the Admin Server logs( before and after redeploying Adapters), I found that there was a difference in java classpath it was referring to.
    After deployment of adapters, when I restarted the server, the classpath was referring to my classpath environment variable also which had an entry pointing to ant-1.6/xercesImpl.jar.
    I removed the entry from environment variable classpath.
    I have now reverted back the deployment order as before and everything seems to be working fine.
    Thanks All for your instant replies.
    Regards
    Kshama
    Edited by: Kshama Tamhankar on Jan 6, 2011 9:36 PM

  • ESS Scheduler metadata information in SOA Composite

    Hi,
    I am working on SOA 12c and Scheduling a SOA Composite, in the process i need to track the ess scheduler request id within SOA Composite and log the composite details with ess scheduler request id.
    how this can be achieved
    Thanks & Regards,
    ANVV

    Hi Markus,
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    i have scheduled the SOA Composite in the similar way, and get it working
    1) Developed the SOAComposite1
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    3) Developed a bpel process <bpelprocess> scheduled ; drag & drop the scheduler activity and deployed it to schedule.
    4) Run the scheduler from <Scheduling Service> under em console
    5) in <SOAComposite1> ; i am trying to get the requestId of the scheduler which ran in step 4 and store the same in the custom database tables for tracking / logging purpose; with current SOAComposite ecid, requestId (which is required and the purpose of this thread), compositename, etc., using ESS API.
    Hope i made it clear
    Thanks & Regards,
    ANVV

  • Where does OEM store information about SOA composite instances

    Hi All,
    I am posting this query the third time here. I really and urgently need information on where this OEM 12c Cloud Control stores the information about the SOA composite instances like.. if the instances is completed, running,faulted,terminated in the management repository or it does not store these information at all. But then from where it fetches the information on faulted instances which it shows on a SOA composite home page in OEM console.
    I really need some concepts on this.
    Please help!!
    Thanks in Advance!!

    This forum is answered on a best effort basis. For time sensitive urgent issues, please log a service request with Oracle Support.

  • How to assign starting order to SOA composites

    Hi,
    we have several soa composites deployed into the same partition and we are developing a new composite that use some of that composites as providers, this new composite will be deployed in the same partition, but when the server is restarted this new composite starts before the others causing an error and leaving the new composite in a unrecoverable error.
    The specific question is: Is there a way to configure the start order (or priority) for each composite?

    Thanks for the suggestions.
    The last 3 days i was deploying the composites to a fresh installation of SOA infrastructure without the restart problems. The only difference is that in the new server, the first time I deployed the composites was in the correct order, ie:
    The composites A, B and C are independents of each other,
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    so, the order to deploy was: A, B, C and last D
    I restarted the server a lot of times but it always publish in that order the applications. I can redeploy the composites and restart the server and the error don't occur again.
    The difference of my deployment in the old server was:
    1. I created and deployed the independents composites A and B.
    2. I created and deployed the composite D using as ws providers A and B.
    3. I created and deployed the independent composite C.
    4. I modified and redeploy the composite D to use as ws provider the new C composite
    All works fine but every restart the server failed to publish D composite.
    It seems that if I always deploy the composites for first time in the correct order It will work fine, the problem is that if in the future we add a new service E and try to make it a new reference to it from D we will need to undeploy and redeploy D.... that is really bad.
    I will do more tests about this deploy and publish orders and if I found something useful I will post it for your reference. I don't have a good solution yet.
    Now reading your suggestions I can see that the problem is the availability of the WSDLs, yesterday I configured the service registry in order to add all this services. My next task is to reconfigure my projects in order to get the WSDL from the service registry, I think this could solve the problem, If not, I will read about the use of the MDS to implement one of your suggestions

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