Why use "Don't Color Manage This Document"?

Hello,
I work on photos, mostly black and white, that will be either digitally or offset printed. I have been told that I should not assign any color profile to these photos in PhotoShop. I should instead choose the option in Assign Profile to "Don't Color Manage This Document."
I think the reason is that we do not want the RIP to interpret any color profile that may be in the RIP and apply it to the photos. But I really don't know why I should use this opiton.
Can anyone educate me on this question?
Thanks,
Tom

Tom,
You've left a few potentially important details out of your scenario, but I will give you my thoughts. Are your B&W images 4/C CMYK, grayscale, or RGB? It can make a difference.
When editing images for my own fine art printing, I always tag it with a profile. In fact, I do this whether my image is grayscale, CMYK or RGB. Of course, I am doing the printing myself, so I have full control over the project. I use a Canon 6100 and custom RGB profiles (which I build myself), so most of my B&W or toned monochrome prints are RGB. Without a source profile, Photoshop will have to assume or assign a profile in order to make the final conversion.
I have used B&W RIPs before, such as QTR, and they don't speak ICC. They simply take the raw umbers in the file and output them to the printer, passing them through specific inking recipes (which they tend to call profiles, but this is very confusing to users, because they can be confused with ICC profiles, which they definitely are NOT). In this case, the RIP simply ignores any embedded ICC profile and just outputs the numbers.
More traditional RIPs (Poster print, Studio Print, ColorBurst, etc) can properly interpret incoming CMYK data with an ICC profile and make whatever conversions are necessary to give you an accurate print. Of course, accuracy depends on having accurate profiles for monitor, printer, paper, ink, etc.
So, if we are talking photos destined for fine art printing on an inkjet, I normally would tag my files with an ICC profile.
I recently designed a job for a client using InDesign. It included a lot of photographs, illustrations, and native components created using Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign. The problem was that the customer had not selected a commercial printer, so I had no idea where the job would be printed, on what type of press, ink limits, paper stock, etc. What to do? I chose a middle of the road profile (IDEAlliance SWOP2006_Coated3v2) which has an ink limit of 300 and assumes a #3 coated sheet. I left this profile active in InDesign. I edited my files in Photoshop and Illustrator and tagged all images with the same profile, and placed them into InDesign. So, all components had the same "generic" CMYK profile based on a middle of the road industry standard (I use the term standard loosely). Having all components tagged enabled me to generate an accurate, high quality color proof on my inkjet (assuming the final press will adhere the the above SWOP standard).
Before submitting the file, I converted it to PDF/X1-a using Acrobat Pro. This strips all profiles from the file, but names the intended color profile in the PDF file. So, I was supplying an untagged file, but if they wanted to, they could see what the intended profile was. I stripped the profile because I did NOT want the unknown commercial printer to convert my carefully generated files. One concern was that all items on the black plate (black text, lines, vector art, etc) might somehow be converted through Lab to a new CMYK profile, thus giving me CMYK separation of my blacks, potential registration problems, etc. To cover my butt, I supplied my color proofs with the file and told the client the final job should look very close to my proofs if the printer did his job right. It also gave the printer a guide print to help them get it right. So, to me, that is the major reason to supply an untagged file.
Sorry for the long diatribe.
Lou

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    Have a light cyan (13% dot max gradient piping the text) emboss letters spot channel .psd placed in AI. In Photoshop the image shows up great, but in Illustrator is notvisible (goes to white).
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    Same color settings in both AI & PS-  North Amercian General Purpose in both
    Assign profile tried both  Working CMYK US WEB v2 & don't color manage
    Illustrator (left) Photoshop (right)

    Figured it out. Happening because this is spot channel. For my purpose am creating a renders of a package, so converted the spot channel to CMYK.
    Illustrator for as long as I can remeber has nto worked perfectly with spot chanels, the colros are off in Illustraor, and when you print a fiery they are off. Only solution I found to keep a spot cahnel intack, is to add a dummy white channel in the layers palette for the sahpe of the spot channel. While this works great with spot chanenls that are built without tints, nto so well in a cse liek the one above.
    Kow I am not the only one to have discovered the dummy white trick, as printers such as SGS are using this. Can anyone offer any more insight into why we have to use a dummy white layers, and how to keep a spot channel intack on files like this one with the light tinted gradation???

  • IE10 Consumer Preview Still Only Does Half Color-Management

    The Internet Explorer version 10 Consumer Preview does not do full color-management - it ignores the monitor profile.
    This is not a real surprise, as I have had it confirmed to me by someone inside Microsoft, but I thought I'd just pass along that in my Windows 8 CP testing I've verified this to actually be the case.
    IE9 and IE10 do not manage the color of web page elements at all, and both interpret image color profiles in images if they're present, but they only convert the colors to sRGB, no matter what monitor profile you're actually using.  For calibrated and profiled systems, this yields inaccuracy; for example, with wide gamut monitors the colors of images carrying a profile will always be oversaturated.
    Sigh.  Progress marches on EVER so slowly.
    -Noel

    Let me try to help you further:
    1. In Illustrator's Swatch settings pallette, should the Spot Color Mode option be set to use:
    a. CMYK
    b. LAB
    c. Book Color (not sure if this refers to the pantone swatchbook)
    - I would use "c" - Book Color.  This is the file going to the printer which will use Spot Color on press.  For a copy of the file to be output by your Canon, use "a" - CMYK.
    2. In the View menu should Overprint Preview be checked, and why, and would it differ based on the settings for #1.
    - Only if the color was transparent ( which it isn't ) would overprint preview be of any use or you use a tint value of the Spot color and a black, but even then you may not be able to detect any change in the screen view.  I typically do not use any overprint preview and I do not rely on the monitor for any color deisions.  You could be different and that is OK.  Let me know if you are able to detect any deviates using overprint preview.
    I'm sorry for being a little short.  There is a lot of confusion about these issues and Adobe and Pantone are not making things any easier.
    The key is your Canon will not be able to print accurate Spot color without a RIP for the necessary color tables and conversions for that particular printer.  In your case, it will be necessary to build a CMYK file to print a somewhat  approximate representation of that specific Spot color.  Another frustrating part of this matrix is CMYK cannot match all Pantone Spot Colors.

  • Color management problem when printing

    (sorry for the double post, since the problem affect both illustrator and photoshop and in fact also indesign) in decided to repost it here in the photoshop forum. thank you for any help!)
    hi ! im in charge of a big print lab in a university. All macpro quad running on 10.6.4, CS5 all updated.
    i  have a major problem when printing from all 3 CS5 apps : Illustrator  (being the worst), photoshop and indesign : each one produces a  different print even if i use the SAME color management options (the  application manage color using my own color profile file created with a  i-one tool from greta macbeath and using eye-one match 3). im printing  on a XEROX 7750gx laser printer. very cool printer never had trouble  with colors before with it, in any case it was always the software part  that was causing color problems (like i suspect in this case).
    how  can 3 softwares under the same application collection and brand, using  the same color profile and options (IDENTICAL ! it's triple check all  the options!) can produce 3 different prints when printing the same  image (it's a color psd created under photoshop CS5) ?!
    i  remember having some trouble like this when we first got CS1 in our lab,  but not this bad... i've checked everything... i realy don't know how  to fix this problem...
    the best setting so far is in  Photoshop when the application manage the color and using my color  profile file in perceptual mode. best output so far, not the best i had  in the past, CS4 was way more perfect with color management.
    i  realy need to find a solition 'cause the students expect the color to  be almost perfect (and they almost were using CS4 in the past...
    thanx for any tips & help !
    +

    many thanx for your reply & help.
    i've just recalibrated everything in my workflow : my screen (perfect!), my xerox 7750 color laser printer. i've recreated a new color profile file for the xerox color. and the same thing is happening : a kind of pink color all over my prints and every adobe's applications is printing different results. in photoshop i can manage the problem when forcing to print in perceptual mode. not perfect but it's fine. and with the other software specialy like ACROBAT and INDESIGN there's no option like this so it prints very badly. only option is to print in adobe 1998 rgb or SWOP cmyk (depending of the color space of the image of course)... the image is use for my test is RGB. images in CMYK are doing the same exact thing.
    by the way for calibration is use an x-rite (greta macbeth) eye-one tool with eye-one match 3.6.3. i calibrate the screens and create color profile with this tool since ADOBE CS1 and never had this much trouble with colors...
    here's a capture from photostop CS5 print dialog. when using the option "match print colors" you can see the image with all the PINK NOISE when using the print in RELATIVE colormetric mode (at the bottom right). using perceptual is "fine" (not color perfect but OK).
    http://i53.tinypic.com/qzge12.jpg
    it's worst in Acrobat and Indesign since i can't use perceptual colormetric print mode...
    im realy starting to think that i better uninstal CS5 and go back to CS4...
    thanx for your help !

  • Color-managed Printing

    I use a jpg image with lots of colors and familiar object in it, to check my printing colors from various photo applications. I use an Epson R800 with its latest Epson driver, and when I print from Adobe CS2 or Lightroom using 'application-managed' colors, ie turning color management OFF in the printer driver, I get fine acceptable color. I expected the same in my trial of Aperture.
    So using the same image file, I go to print image in Aperture, set the Print Settings to turn color management off, and select the paper profile for Epson Premium Glossy Bst Photo in the Colorsync Profile menu, and then the preview image for the dialog shows a purple-ish badly colored preview! Only when I set the Colorsync Profile to System Managed, do I see a preview that resembles the image file in the view mode in Aperture and in the other applications.
    Finally, when i print that image, I get a print that resembles what I am looking for, but is inferior compared to the Lightroom and CS2 prints. it is muddy and dark compared to them.
    Can someone straighten me out on the settings that I should use to avoid color management by the printer driver, and have Aperture send a color corrected image to the printer, as I do in Lightroom ad CS2? And finally, why is the print of lower quality than the print I am getting from these other applications? I have tried increasing the Gamma but that doesn't do it.

    rwboyer wrote:
    Most likely you are experience either a temporary or semi-permenant Aperture completely broken printing issue. You maybe able to fix it yourself or you may have to wait for a new driver/new aperture update. This kind of thing happens and is one of my most gigantic issues with Aperture.
    Here is a little blurb that mentions how you might be able to fix it in the middle somewhere:
    [Aperture printing|http://photo.rwboyer.com/2009/10/01/printing-color-spaces-color-management-and-o ther-religious-wars>
    I personally do not have that printer so I cannot tell you if it happens not to work with Ap at this given moment. Even if it works with other apps fine there are occasions that I have had where a printer will not work with Aperture and the only thing that "fixed it" was a driver update that mentioned nothing about the issue. Why only Aperture? Who knows.
    RB
    and this is actually acceptable to you?

  • Which monitor for accurate color management?

    I shoot digital product and food photography using a mac powerbook. I've been using a LaCie CRT (yes, I said CRT) monitor for fine tuning my photos. It has finally started acting up so I'm ready for a new monitor. Can anyone recommend a dependable monitor that has color, brightness and contrast controls for use with establishing color managed profiles using eye1 macbeth (now that company is called something else which I can not remember at the moment). Obviously it needs to be accurate when it comes to color, brightness and contrast as well.
    I ended up using my laptop screen this past shoot cause I had no other choice - but it made me really nervous.....
    thanks -

    First of all, my sincere condolences for your loss.  Losing your last high-end CRT is a traumatic loss.  I'm still hanging on to two (2) of them!  (Knock on wood!)
    Highly recommended monitors:
    The NEC 2690 and 2490.
    You want to use the SpectraView II software to conduct all the work internally and use GammaComp and ColorComp.
    If Andrew Rodney chimes in with updated recommendations, listen to his advice.
    Wo Tai Lao Le
    我太老了

  • Which color management monitor?

    I shoot digital product and food photography using a mac powerbook. I've been using a LaCie CRT (yes, I said CRT) monitor for fine tuning my photos. It has finally started acting up so I'm ready for a new monitor. Can anyone recommend a dependable monitor that has color, brightness and contrast controls for use with establishing color managed profiles using eye1 macbeth (now that company is called something else which I can not remember at the moment). Obviously it needs to be accurate when it comes to color, brightness and contrast as well.
    I ended up using my laptop screen this past shoot cause I had no other choice - but it made me really nervous.....
    thanks -

    As for the last sentence in my previous post, I thought we were in the Color Management forum, where Andrew Rodney is often active.
    You may want to post there too:
    http://forums.adobe.com/community/design_development/color_management#
    This Photography forum is a graveyard these days.
    Wo Tai Lao Le
    我太老了

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