Workflow KeyLight Before Color correction?

WHat is the best workflow when working in green screen.
Should the color removal (green screen). in Keylight come before any color correction?
In this specific case I am dealing with a medium shot of a person. Talking head, not much movement.
I assume getting rid of the green screen should come first since then I am only am dealing with the remaining image (specifically the medium shot of the person.) For example, I need to enhance the hue a bit on the person's face, and it seems to me that first getting rid of the green, making it alpha/transparent, first makes sense.
Or does it?
Thanks
Rowby

rowby wrote:
...seems to me that first getting rid of the green, making it alpha/transparent, first makes sense.
Or does it?
Generally - yes, but you may find situations, where pre-key adjustments are unavoidable. The real question is, whether the green is green enough, if you get my meaning. There may be situations, where you need to compensate for insufficient lighting or color shifts from non-ideal lighting conditions (sunlight shifting colors, for instance). In those cases, you would try to clean up the green as much as you can without regard to the rest of the footage - as long as they facilitate generating a clean matte, nobody will mind. Once you have gnerated a proper Alpha, it is easy to introduce it into an untreated footage via matte modes and channel operations. That's the one thing you should keep in mind. In most cases of course you will want to do a direct key and if there is enough contrast, there should be no problems. Indeed you would then do the color correction after the key. This also applies to compressed footage like HDV or AVCHD - any pre-key corrections may in fact have an adverse effect and make things harder, as they also increase the intensity of artifacts. Anyway, all theory aside, you only know when you try. The more you do this stuff, the better wil lyou be able to gauge what's required.
Mylenium

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What to do about bright spots before color correcting

I have a video of the Lion King show from the Animal Kingdom at Disney World. I shot it on HDV using a tripod, although I occasionally zoomed or panned the camera. This is not an important project, just one I would like to finally get done seeing as how I have had the footage since 2006. Procrastination is a bit of a problem for me as you might infer from that. The export might be my first Blu-Ray export, but more likely it will just end up on Vimeo.
The problem with spotlights is probably familiar to many of you so I thought I would ask for some advice before I even begin. My initial thought was to use a gradient matte over the top 1/3 or 1/2 of the frame at times to dim the spotlights before using an adustment layer to color correct each section. A vignette so to speak that would help focus attention on stage. Or, perhaps a large collection of little circular gradient mattes over each of the brighter spotlights (using AE)
I am not planning on zooming in to the video in Premiere Pro. The shots are the shots and they are staying that way as far as I can tell, unless something really screams for that and I can get away with it. There are quite a few changes in lighting. I attached three examples of what I will be dealing with.
What I would really like to know is how other people would go about this. I haven't researched Speedgrade yet, mainly because I think I might be able to handle this in Premiere Pro and After Effects. Although it may be the perfect opportunity to learn Speedgrade. I have a subscription to the Creative Cloud, so any Adobe product is fair game. I am not planning on buying any third party tools. This is just a hobby project, and I can not justify any additional expense for it.
I don't want to over do the correction. The yellow and blue tints are really there, but I would like to reduce the tint so that just the hint of yellow or blue is visible. I have a feeling that I am going to have to spend some time adjusting curves to deal with some of the dimmer lighting like the last image. Or, is there a set of magic parameters I can change to keep this simple and get close to my goal without a huge effort.
There will be no cutting other than what might be needed at points where colors change dramatically. I would really like to see everything keyframed so all changes are smooth if that makes sense technically. The video is 00;31;31;02 in duration. This is going to be a pretty big project for having zero cuts. The longest I have ever done without a cut as far as I can remember.
Here are three sample frames. Any and all suggestions are welcome. How would you start?

Oh, I know about the Disney issues. I just like to use my Roku to watch HD videos from Vimeo on my HDTV. It depends on the footage. If it has to be pristine, then Vimeo might not be the best choice, but for most of my footage, it is good enough. Most of the people I show my vacation videos to are friends and family so I just keep the video private and nobody bothers me about it. So far at least

Color correction

there was a thread on cs5 about this that interested me, so I started new thing here cause Im using cs3..
Shooternz, your help in the cs5 thread was great...and this is what I did....in my particular circumstances...
( I have to say that this is really the first time I'm sorta getting serious about CC and using the scopes etc...to try to learn this better )
I know the basics and the monitor stuff and the way people shoot properly exposed grayscale, color etc on set for calibration ( using film mostly in my experience, but done with digital too as I've seen )...
Sooo, here's the thing... I shot this clip as a test to see how long the music had to be to get a mssg across later on ( an insert shot that I will shoot on the day in the right location etc )... so this was a timing test sorta....didnt care about the lighting.
However, since I shot it I've tried to make it as good as I can ( why not ? )
I had a flourescent unit ( drop down ceiling 32K flourescents ) above...but it read about 36k on color meter and needed color correction at that ( LB and CC correction ..know what I mean ? )...so OK...who cares, its a test and timing only sooooo I dont put gels on the light and just shoot.
Soooo, I DID IN FACT put a grayscale down to fix it later if possible....even though it wasn't lit right....
This is what it looks like basically...
pretty terrible...very yellow and compressed tones etc...not good...
Soo, following your suggestions in thread in cs5, using waveform and vectorgraph, I come up with this instead..
WAYY BETTER ! ( thank you ! )....but...not perfect...thats OK, I didnt light it right...but better ....
Now, though, when I paste attributes of this to the clip in question I end up with this pixelation or "splotchy " stuff..as shown here
Now, my experience using psd tells me that if you try to correct too much, there's a sorta " limit" to what you can do, and things start just plain getting screwed up..."splotchy" like this... but if I had some way to just pick on the "yellow" gamma or something maybe I could get rid of it ....OR do a color replacement ( change ??? )... like pick out that particular color and change it to something closer to the white??? Have you ever dealt with this type thing ??? I know I started out all wrong to begin with but am wondering what you think ??
Thanks !
Rod
ps...this was a dumb test so please dont , you know, put much into this...I know I shot it all screwed up to begin with..

Hey Rod
Your CC looks fine and if the intention was to correct the col temp and exposure issue..you did fine. I see you have a full scale of tones in the greys.
Obviously you should start off with a correct exposure and that doesn ot necessarily mean a "technically correct" exposure.
You do not have to shoot and CC / grade to display the full range from Balck to white.
Its important to rember that the CC and grade (and the composition) are part of "the story" At times you will want crushed blacks and other times you may want a high key look or compressed tones in the mid. Then afetr the "tones" you think about what color tells the story.
Always..... Levels before Color correction!
BTW - the eye rules but ensure technically that the scopes confirm what you think you see.
Heres someof my images reflecting different CC for a "fit with the story"
Flat , clean,compressed mid tones, clinical ( a green screen BTW)
Dark , compressed toward blacks with detail in mids, juicy highlightsdramatic ( slo mo)
Full tonal range,hi color, "summer on xmas day"
full range color and tone, texture "yummy"
Clean and clinical mid ranges with slight color de-saturation of BG
FG grade to match bg (key) and fit time of day look.
Keep in mind...the above shots started in the photography and the cc / grade is enhancement.
Good luck mate.

AE CS6 - 3D Compositing and Color Correction workflow

AE CS6 - 3D Compositing and Color Correction workflow
Hello everybody,
I have some questions about work flow in AE concerning compositing and Color Correction. I saw many tuts about (f.e. Lynda.com Premiere Pro Color Correction and Enhancement... and tuts by Andrew Davis here in creative.cow).
Essentially, he have this CC work flow:
GRADING (primary and secondary)
Adjusting Tonality (Brightness and Contrast)
Adjusting Colors (White balance and fix color dominance)
MATCHING
Conforming colors of different clip shoted with different camera and lighting set up.
ENANCHING LOOK
Giving to all clips a unique "look"
But what does it happen if we have NOT just some clips but ALSO a 3D object (rendered in a 3d sw or, actually also a 3d object inserted by 3D Element by videocopilot)
or/and
a keyed clip from a green screen shot?
How does this footage (3d object and green screen keyed shot) transform
the aforementioned work flow?
We have to consider that this footage (3d object and green screen keyed shot) must to be pre-multiplied to make a right compositing but when you make CC it must be again "straight"... (NOT pre-multiplied)
Is really hard also understand how dale this work flow between AE and Pre Pro if you want to make CC in Pre Pro after compositing in AE.
I try to present a work flow for this (very common) situation:
I have a landscape clip as a background
a keyed clip (pre-multiplied) with a Character watching sky
and a 3d (pre-multiplied) object U.F.O. on sky.
When I have done compositing, how make I a right CC of all footage if I have two clip (3d object and green screen keyed shot) still pre-multiplied?
I think, but I'm not sure, that should be a good idea to send to Pre Pro a composited Comp with separate layers (by dynamic links) to have all single separate layers (Background, 3d object and green screen keyed shot.. but also the Color Warping...!). Than, in Pre Pro you should make a CC (Grading) just for a BG and than try to Match (Matching) this color corrected BG with 3d obj and keyed shoot. But we have a problem at this point cause our 3d object and green screen keyed shot are still pre-multiplied, and before make matching we have to re- multiplied theme, but how? And if we re pre-multiplied them, compositing will be also right?
Or maybe, before exporting comp from AE to Pre Pro, he have to create both layers for 3d object and green screen keyed shot, one pre-multiplied and one "Stright"? But, again, how to combine them to have a right compositing and a a right CC?
Anybody can help me to understand or maybe suggest any tuts to dale this common issue in AE- Pre Pro?
Many, many thanks!

Dave is correct. (And so is Mylenium. No need to be rude, when he was jsut trying to explain that you were introducing unnecessary complexity.)
The color matting is removed to interpret the alpha channel when you import the footage. After that, any color correction that you do to a layer based ont hat footage item doesn't have anything to do with whether the channels were straight or premultiplied for the source item.
You color-correct your individual items to amke them match as part of the compositing process in After Effects. Then, if you want to do a color grade of the shot in Premiere Pro along with other shots, you'd be working on the single rendered/flattened composite, so the details of the original elements that went into the composite are irrelevant.

Do all editing before any color correction?

I have just gotten final cut pro x.
I have some experience (very limited a couple of years back, with a Sony Home Movie Studio Platinum).
I am shooting my own music video.
Really enjoying using FCPX atm. Niggles aside (the lack of a manual save feature)
Just curious about workflow/resources.
Should I do all my editing, prior to color correction from a resources standpoint.
Does it make it slower, rendering say a zoom in the transform function with color correction applied, than without?
Eg, I have a clip, I put a keyframe and start and end of the clip. Then I scale the clip to 105% on the end of clip keyframe
to simulate a zoom in.
Should I be doing all that kind of editing, then applying any color correction or video type effects?
cheers
Wiz

Should I do all my editing, prior to color correction from a resources standpoint.
That's the SOP for working with professional video. You organize your media, you edit your media, you mix your audio, you add your transitions and titles, add effects and motion, color correct your video.

Advice for logical workflow for color correcting and color grading

I am an experienced user of PPRO CS5. I am a novice with color correcting and color grading. I am also just barely competant in AE CS5. It has been suggested that I use AE for color correcting my footage. Can you advise me as to the most logical workflow for doing this in coordination with PPRO CS5? Are there some tutorials that you recommend? I subscribe to Lynda.com and I think that they have some great tutorials, I am unsure as to where to begin looking and what to search for.
Thanks so much,
Lisa

lisaellensegal wrote:
I am an experienced user of PPRO CS5. I am a novice with color correcting and color grading. I am also just barely competant in AE CS5. It has been suggested that I use AE for color correcting my footage.
You can do it that way, sure. But you don't have to. You can accomplish quite a lot without leaving PPro. This has two major advantages. First, if you aren't using AE for anything else, it gets you out of using AE at all, so gets you out of climbing another set of learning curves.
Second, even if you are using AE for other things (I use AE to make motion lower thirds, for example), doing the work in PPro can improve exporting speeds. This is because AE gets restricted to a single processor core in some workflows as discussed in this thread and others (search around if you're interested). This can make exporting take 3x as long or longer, depending on how much footage has to be processed by AE.
So, how to do color correction without leaving PPro? Use either a luma corrector or luma curve effect to set black and white points, and contrast (use a waveform monitor to help). Then use a three way color corrector effect to get rid of any residual color casts (use the vectorscope to help, and the RGB parade, etc.).
If you find you have specific colors that need to be fixed, you can apply another three way color correction effect and use it to make that secondary color correction (for example I find the blue dyes used in many labels tend to fluoresce under fluorescent lighting, and has to be desaturated with a secondary color correction or it "blooms" on an HDTV -- IOW, it has to be made "broadcast safe").
If you want tutorials for using these tools, the ones on Creative Cow by Andrew Devis are quite good, and free. The ones on color correction with PPro cs6 start at tutorial number 47. There's a bunch of them. All good.
Finally, get a copy of Van Hurkman's Color Correction Handbook. May be the best technical book I've ever read, and it'll certainly point you in the right direction for doing color correction work regardless of which tools you use to do it.

Color Correction Workflow Question

If I am color correcting on the "original clip" - and then pulling that color corrected "original clip" into its own "clip sequence" that I then pull into a "master sequence", along with all the other "clip sequences" that make up my edit, and I am trimming those "clip sequences" to get just the snippet I need...
Is that creating a longer rendering time than if I...
Do not color correct on the actual "original clip" - still put the "original clip" into its own "clip sequence" - trim and resize that "clip sequence" to just the snippet I need, and then do the color correcting on that "clip sequence" instead of the "original clip" itself?
I'm hoping there is no descernable difference in the approach, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Thanks.

Good enough for me.
BTW Jim the workflow set-up you held my hand through (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5522489#5522489) is what I'm utilizing here - so far it has truly changed the way I approach everything for the better.

Workflow for Green Screen Multicam, Color Correction. (CC 2014)

Hi
What is the best workflow to do a music video shot with 7 cameras (each with 4 takes) on a green screen which would also include green screen stills.
All shot with Consumer Grade cameras at 1920/1080 at the highest resolution (I think 30 fps)
The way I am going about is not efficient.
My tasks are:
Key each 20 minute clip (to get about 2 usable minutes)
Rotate my DSLR video (shot in landscape so I could take stills as well)
Color correct all clips
Create a new cleaned up movie for each clip including: Proper format. Keyed with new background, Color Corrected, Re-encoded as a new movie, Re-imported as 7 new movies, begin to edit.
I was watching some movies about pasting attributes which look helpful and also about nesting sequences which looks like it could save time.
What is the best workflow steps to do all this? Am I going about it the right way by creating new movie clips which are keyed with a new background, color corrected, and reencoded including all the garbage footage? Then create a new multicam project to edit the cleaned up footage?
HELP!

Temporary solution for this was "export xml" after all. I had to disable all graphics and textlayers and delete colorcorrections, and flatten multicam, so i had to redo all grading ja graphics stuff in older premiere after importin FCP xml. But got the work done in time. Won't use cc 2014 in near future unless someone figures out what is wrong with green frames. (well actually now im exporting from older AME, will she if the green frames pops out there too, wouldn't be too much surprised....)

Color correction workflow

I like to color correct my clips before I start working on the timeline. Is there a way to color correct and save the color corrected clip so I don't have to redo color once I lay it on the timeline again? Or this is not the right way of doing things?

Generally you don't color correct before you edit, correction being based not on one clip but on the clips around it. If you want to you can open a clip into the timeline from the browser. Any color correction applied there will be applied to each use of the clip.

Color correct clips before making muliticlip?

Hello,
I would like to color correct my three camera clips before making a multiclip to save time, but the video scopes will not allow me to see my changes when I color correct. I have to drag each clip to the timeline and color correct each clip before I see modifications to the videoscopes. Even then, I have to use only the clips in the browser to make the mulitclip. Is there a more efficient process to put my clips through a filter(s) process (ie..color correction, de-interlace) before making a multiclip?
Thanks,
Jordan

Hello Andy,
Yahoo! Thank you Andy for your information. You just saved me a lot of time. Cheers!
Jordan:>)

Color Correct before or after compressing to Pro Res?

Hi,
I have about 53:00 of footage that is 90% xdcam hd 422 footage (1080i60, 1920/1080, 29.97fps). Unfortunately, some of the material was shot 23.98. After researching it, I converted those to Pro Res 422 29.97.
I need to deliver the project in either XDCam 422 HD or Pro Res. Since I had the 23.98 issue I'm going to convert everything to Pro Res.
I will need to deliver the entire media managed project. So I'm going to compress to Pro Res then.
My question is, should I color correct before or after? I'm still waiting to get final approvals so I'd love to start color correcting now, but I hate to waste time if it's not going to be accurate later. Nothing is broadcast safe and the chroma need to be pumped up in the interviews and taken down in other places.
My deadline is next friday, so it has to be at FedEx on Thursday.
Thanks for you help!

Does anyone have an opinion?

Denoise before or after color corrections?

I am using a CHV filter to denoise a HDV footage that was shooted with auto gain on. It works very well.
However, I want to get the blacks darker. Should I do the color correction before or after the denoise process?
Considering the fact that making the blacks darker will increase the "grainy" aspect of the video, what is the best way to do this?
Thanks.

I tested both, before and after the CHV denoise filter. It`s quite similar, but I tend to prefer after.
I`m not thinking about crushing the black to denoise the clip
The CHV filter worked very well, the grainy aspect is gone.
Now I need to get the dark areas of the image to be black. From what I understand, the blacks should be at 0 on the waveform monitor.
When I get make the blacks darker, to be at 0, the grainy aspect comes back a little bit. I guess is a physical thing and there is no miracle solution...
Any suggestion is welcomed...
Thanks.

Where to put color correction into workflow

I am having fun going through some 1200 images from a 2 week trip in Montana, Wyoming... lots of blue and green and a few snow capped mountains. As I work through the several I would like to print big, where would you place color correction in the workflow.... I use levels (the sliders), highlights/shadows, and saturation mostly. And then color correction somewhere in here.
Thanks.

Peter,
I agree with Jim that the order may change but as a general practice if I need to adjust color I do it after any lighting (levels or shadows/highlight) changes since they usually change the color in my pictures. Most of the time I adjust saturation selectively particularly if sky and/or water are concerned. As a final step I apply various amounts of unsharp mask. From the 3 cameras I have owned (2 Olympus and the current Panasonic) I have never found a picture that couldn't be greatly improved either overall or selectively by LIGHT application of usm.
Being basically lazy I always give Auto Smart Fix a shot as a first try and either go from there or undo it. :)
Bob

Do I color correct angles before making multiclip?

Hi guys,
I have two individual angles I'm going to sync and make a multiclip out of. One of my clips is horribly bright and requires some serious fixing in Color.
Do I color correct or add filters to the individual angles BEFORE making the two angles into one multiclip? Or is there some way to color correct the entire angle after making it into a multiclip?
--also, any reason why my canvas when changing angles in a multiclip would show it in 4:3 while the actual video is 16:9 in both the viewer and timeline?
Thanks

You could color correct before if you like, if your angle is rock solid and the changes will be consistent throughout. I don't do it that way but have been tempted.
If you do it after finishing the multiclip edit then you will need to copy one color corrected clip and then paste attributes to the other appropriate clips.
As a rule I color correct when my edit is finished.

Can you color correct before rendering?

This is a simple beginner question.
Lets say I make something that's 20 min long with a lot of cuts and I want to color correct the whole thing as one. Is there a way to do that before rendering it out or will I have to render it out for several hours, import it back in, color correct and then render it out a second time?

If you're using Premiere cs6 you can simply use a adjustment layer for doing this color correction task. Just take the adjustment layer and extend it on a video track over top of all your video clips and put your desired CC effect on the adjustment layer then you're ready to roll.
If you don't have Premiere Pro cs6 and you have cs4 cs5 or you have 5.5 then you can create a new sequence that matches your exact settings used in your original sequence, then take your original sequence and drag and drop it into your new sequence/timeline and then stick the color correction effect on your old sequence once it's inside the new sequence you just created.

Workflow KeyLight Before Color correction?

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