Working Space for Color Management...

Hello,
I'm working on a project with a series of still, all of which contain embedded sRGB color profiles (as these images were originally used for a web-based job). This video project will eventually go onto a SD DVD to be displayed on a SD NTSC television. When choosing my working space (for color management), should I use SDTV NTSC (or should I use sRGB and then specify SDTV NTSC in my output setting upon rendering? I'm leaning towards SDTV NTSC as my working space, but since I'm coming at this from a print background in color management, I'm wondering if someone could lend some advice?
Also, what should I select for these options (under Color Settings in Project Settings)...ie. should I or shouldn't I have them checked...
- Linearize Working Space
- Blend Colors Using 1.0 Gamma
Thanks!
Kristin.

> It didn't really touch on "Blend Colors Using 1.0 Gamma" though would I want this checked?
Generally, yes. It helps avoid problems that can occur with inter-layer blending.
> And pretty sure, for what I'm doing, I wouldn't want "Linearize Working Space" checked.
Also correct, unless you intend to work in a 16- or 32-bpc mode.
More information and additional helpful links are on the Help page for these topics:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS2A3CEB0E-F1A1-4035-9C62-CFF4A0527B11a.html

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Displays for color management

Current recommendations for good performing monitors at a reasonable price?

It would be helpful if you narrow down what you consider "a reasonable price."
Of course it is essential that you tell us what kind of work you do and whether you have a good understanding of the theory and practice of color management.
Without any further information, the only recommendations I would have are:
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NEC 24" Widescreen Professional Graphics Monitor with SpectraView II

LED lightings for Color management?

With LED bulbs and lightings quickly replacing conventional lightings, I got curious and am wondering if there's any LED lighting (bulbs, tubes?, etc) that meet, or can be adjusted to, standardized prepress lighting conditions such as D50, D65, etc.
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> It didn't really touch on "Blend Colors Using 1.0 Gamma" though would I want this checked?
Generally, yes. It helps avoid problems that can occur with inter-layer blending.
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Work space and color settings indicator

A helpful feature would be some way to activate a persistent menu bar icon that indicates which work space and/or color settings a user currently has CS synchronized too. I work on both print and web projects and it would be helpful to glance at the menu bar to see what work space I am synchronized too so I know if I need to change it, rather than having to go into Bridge > Creative Suite Color Settings to see, or a particular app's color settings/mode.
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Kurt

tutu22 wrote:
Apologies
I am not yet as I was hoping to open up the workspace before I did that
I will do as soon as I open up the workspace
If you tell me differently...
I will do so now
Nope, it must be done the other way around... your device enabled on the BES before the split workspace and personal space can be used... When it is, in your Settings (swiping down from the top bezel), you will see the choices.
1. If any post helps you please click the below the post(s) that helped you.
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Numeric Value for Brightness Controle for color management purposes?

As a retoucher I am supposed to keep accurate color management. I create my ICC Monitor profiles with an X-Rites i1XT meter. The screen calibration includes a brightness adjustment to meet a desired luminosity value (I choose to work on a 120cd/m level). My issue is that apples "brightness slider" wont define a value or percentage which I could associate with my current ICC profile. If I would for instance watch a movie in full brightness I could never get back to my previous brightness settings in order to maintain my desired color accuracy!
- is there a way to read out or dial in a "brightness value" (maybe trough a script?)
- does anyone know about an external tool that could help me (without interfering the ICCs)
THX a lot,
TIM

I know of a way to recover that number from an Apple notebook's built-in display. Don't know if the same is true with an external display, but you can try. The value exists in the I/0 registry.
If you open a Terminal window and input the following:
ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayParameters
about 2/3rds through the output you will see a long line with all the display actual values. Near the end of that line you will find a line like:
"brightness"={"max"=1024,"min"=0,"value"=x
where x will be the actual brightness on a scale from 0 to 1024. At least that is how things are working from my Apple notebook.
I don't know of a way to set the value from terminal. But at least you can read it out.
If my command of Unix were better, I could figure out a way to refine the output using a command like sed, so that the output only returned the number you are interested in. Maybe someone can help with that. It would take me too long to figure out. Not a Unix guru.

Best monitors for color management

Wanting to buy a monitor that will display the RGB COLOR profile

There are many wide gamut monitors on the market which will natively reproduce most of Adobe RGB (I assume that's what you mean by "RGB").
But I wouldn't recommend that unless you are fully aware of the implications. Such a monitor can only be used in a fully color managed environment, and it must be calibrated and profiled to perform as intended. Without full color management there's no way it will display correctly and it's just a waste.
Taken at face value (what is the "best"), your question only has one answer: Either an NEC PA series, or an Eizo CG/CX series. They are expensive, but worth it. If you're on a tight budget, go down in size, not quality. Panel size is the single biggest cost factor and a good 24" is way better than a mediocre 27" or 30" at the same price point.

Scripting Bridge for Color Management

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I need a script that instruct Bridge to Switch to a color Preset.
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Stefano

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Script for color space conversion RGB to CMYK - URGENT Help Wanted

Excuse my ignorance with the basic nature of this question, I don't use InDesign, but I do have a pressing problem regarding it.
My book publisher has just emailed to say that my photography book has been set for the printers in InDesign and the photographs have AdobeRGB color space (which was what I was aksed to send.) The printer needs the images to be in CMYK. The publisher said that he was "pretty sure Adobe Acrobat converts the InDesign files to CMYK" and that he has sent the printer RGB images in the past and they "came out OK". He said that if this will not work, he needs to convert all of the images separately to CMYK.
Can you help with the following:
1. Is he right about the above - can Adobe Acrobat convert the files?
2. Can anyone offer me a script that will convert all of the images in InDesign to CMYK? or will he need to change them individually?
Thanks for any suggestions with this urgent request.
Stephen

1. Acrobat can convert.
2. No need for a script, if the printer needs CMYK, you can export a CMYK pdf.
3. To get the highest quality conversions, you might want to do it in Photoshop.
4. If the images are color managed and the printer has a modern work-flow a color managed RGB PDFX-4 pdf is probably the best way to go...
Harbs

Working space settings for Grayscale?

(Preliminary remark: I'm using the German version of PS, so some items may be called differently in the English version.)
In the colour settings of PS CS4 I can define a working space for gray scale pictures. What does this setting actually do?
I know that there is no ICC colour management for grayscale pictures, so what do the dot gain settings do? Do they just darken the display or is there more? What do the gamma settings do? What does "Black&White mean? What does sGray mean? Does Photoshop somehow add ICC profiles to grayscale pictures? If yes, which and what does it do?
So far I decided to just set "no adjustment". The reasoning is that this should display the true greyscale values on the screen. I then can add dot gain as needed manually as a final step. Does this make sense or am I misunderstanding something?
Bonus question: What about the spot colour settings? Are they applied to multichannel pictures?

p_d_f wrote:
Yes, there really are Grayscale ICC profiles...
Thank you. After contemplating a bit, I think I've finally understood where my confusion originated. But the more I understand, the more new questions arise.
So far I've understood that if a picture is to be displayed on an internet site or used in an office application, then I best work with the gamma 2.2 profile. If the target computer honours ICC profiles, then it desn't matter anyway which profile I use, but if the target computer ignores ICC profiles, then most computers out there will display the picture with a gamma of 2.2 (more or less) because this tends to be the default setting on most computers.
But when it comes to pictures for print, some questions remain.
To begin with, I could continue to work as I did without colour management. I would first "convert" the picture to the profile "no corrections". This would mean that "the numbers" in the picture are the same as the gray values the final user should see. And then I would account for dot gain by either applying a gradation curve or by saving as EPS with a transfer curve.
However if I want to use colour management, then I "convert" the picture to the the printer's ICC profile. Without a specialized program, I cannot create such a profile myself, even if I know the transfer curve. So either I find a suitable profile somewhere or the print shop must provide me that profile.
So far I think I understand. But now the questions.
Concerning missing profiles: Can I just take the gray channel of a suitable CMYK profile (e.g. ISO Coated v2) or would this contain some sort of black generation information which would spoil a grayscale picture?
I assume that it's possible to embed the black and white point into the profile, so that I don't have to worry about them anymore but can assign the full range of gray values from 0% to 100%. With the colour sync tool, I looked into the grayscale profiles that come with Photoshop, and as far as I can tell, none of them does set the black and white point. So I assume that despite using colour management, I have to do this by hand in the picture itself by assigning appropriate grayscale values?
If I find a profile which does set the black and white point, then I assume that this is done lossless when I set the intent to "photographic", but when I set the intent to "colorimetrc", then the shadows and lights are just clipped (which jeopardizes the idea)?
I see that the profiles contain a intent. I assume that this embedded intent will be overridden by the colour setting in photoshop?
What does the option "blackpoint compensation" (or similiar, I use the German photoshop) do with grayscale images? Does it alter the black point, so I should turn the potion off off when I set it by hand? Is there some documentation what this option *exactly* does?
The colour settings in Photoshop offers "dot gain xx%" settings, but I didn't find such profiles. Do I assume correctly that those are "internal" profiles of photohop? Are they documented somewhere?
Thanks.

Turn off the Printers color management function for the Pro-100

I've tried everything to get this printer to print realistic colors. I had the Pro-9000 MK II and it was spot on. I'm running Mac OS 10.9.1 and downloaded all the current drivers for the Pro-100. The colors are way off. I am using Print Studio Pro, Under color management I'm selecting the ICC profile for the paper being used, the printer profile was downloaded from Canon's web site and that's selected the same paper type. Color matching is grayed out.
My monitor has been calibrated so I know that's not the issue. Especially since the Pro-9000 was right on the mark. Any suggestions???
Thanks in advance.
Rob
Mesa, AZ

Rob:
“I am using Print Studio Pro, under color management I'm selecting the ICC profile for the paper being used, the printer profile was downloaded from Canon's web site and that's selected the same paper type. Color matching is grayed out.”
I use the same setup as you and I print with, Print Studio Pro and LR4. My monitor is not calibrated. I only use Canon ink and Canon paper and the corresponding ICC profiles. My color output is exceptional. Black & white is good but not exceptional.
When I purchased this printer (a couple of months ago) I just followed the installation instructions and it worked great (for color prints) right out of the box. You may want to try a reinstall to see if that solves the issue. The Pro-100 is a very good printer.
Tinman
Mesa, AZ
Nikon D600; Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G, 85mm f/1.8G, 70-300mmG f/4.5 - 5.6 VR

Color-managed printing to Epson 870

I have never succeeded in getting a color-managed print workflow to my Epson Stylus Photo 870 printer using PSE5 (or 4 or 3). The prints are consistently darker than what I see on screen, though the colors otherwise seem about right.
I'm pretty familiar with color management generally, and I have read the tutorials in the Missing Manual and at computer-darkroom.com. I will describe my recent experiments.
Perhaps someone who uses this printer (or a similar Epson printer) can offer some insight. What is noteworthy about these Epson printers is that they come with only a single ICC profile, rather than one profile per media type. The processing to compensate for media differences occurs within the driver. This complicates the color management story.
1. Computer setup: Windows XP SP2, Samsung SyncMaster 193P LCD display.
2. Monitor calibration: This monitor has programmable internal color conversion. I used the MagicTune utility to tune the monitor to sRGB. I then used Adobe Gamma to confirm that this is essentially an sRGB monitor; that is, the profile produced by Adobe Gamma yields an appearance that is indistinguishable from the standard sRGB profile.
3. Photos are JPEGs tagged as sRGB by the camera. I am printing them from PSE5 Organizer. Color management set to "Print" (AdobeRGB). Paper is Epson Glossy Photo Paper. Media type selected in the driver is Photo Paper.
In the following experiments, I varied the Print Space setting in PSE's Print Options and the Custom > Advanced color settings in the Epson driver.
Experiment 1: Print Space: "Same as Source". Driver: "ICM". Result: somewhat dark prints.
Experiment 2: Print Space: "Epson Stylus Photo 870". Driver: "No Color Adjust". Result: even darker prints, with a slight color cast.
Experiment 3: Print Space: "Epson Stylus Photo 870". Driver: "ICM". Result: same as experiment 3.
Experiment 4: Print Space: "Same as Source". Driver: "PhotoEnhance". Result: by far the closest to what I see on the screen, and (subjectively) the best rendition of the original scene.
Of course, experiment 4 is depending on some magic processing in the Epson driver, rather than being a true ICC color-managed workflow. I'd like to figure out why my attempts at a color-managed workflow aren't working right.

"So it seems that Organizer and Editor do color management differently when
printing.... I would not have expected this; it seems like a bug."
My Epson 870 finally died. But, while it was working I did manage to get it
to work very well in a fully color managed workflow. I calibrated my
monitor with a hardware calibration device. The generic 870 ICC profile
that came with the printer gave me prints that were too dark compared to my
calibrated monitor. I had a custom profile made for the printer for each
specific paper I use and that made all the difference. For PSE 3, I always
printed only from the editor and used a fully color managed work flow
specifying the custom printer profile as the print space. The Epson printer
driver was set to custom and in the advanced tab, the "No Color Adjustment"
setting for color management was selected.
I didn't like to print from Organizer because I didn't care for the way it
handled things. The creations portion of Organizer didn't pick up all the
organizer color settings either if I recall correctly. The different
behavior is not so much a bug as it is two different programs that are
packaged together and loosely interact -- Organizer began life as Adobe
Album.
I don't know about PSE 4 and 5 as I went to Photoshop CS2 instead of
upgrading PSE. I still have PSE 3 installed, but I seldom use it anymore.
I would have thought that the newer versions would have done something about
the Organizer printing issues but it sounds like that hasn't happened yet.

I Don't Understand Color Management

I'm a relative newbe, but have been digging into Photoshop CS4 pretty intensely the last several months. All in all I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on it and can pretty much do what I want to do ........ EXCEPT Color Management. No matter how much I read on the subject I still don't have even the basic concepts.
First off, my tools include a Nikon D90 -> HP Touchsmart Notebook (uncalibrated lcd screen) ->Photoshop CS4 -> a just purchased Epson r2880.
Let's ignore the Nikon for now and just concentrate on PS and the r2880.
My color settings in PS are Adobe RGB98 and CYMK US Web coated (SWOP) v2
Assuming this is OK must I assign a profile to each individual photo, or is that taken care of automatically? What is the purpose of the profile?
Then when I get ready to print and Color Management is being taken care of by Adobe, do I turn off all color correction in the r2880 or do I use the ICM (which I have downloaded from the web)?
I experiment with the different settings and one seems to work better sometimes than the other, but not consistently.
Any help (to include recommended documentation or literature) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much. Some of this is starting to make sense in a (It Depends on ....) sorta way.
Going to your analogy, isn't it true when the photographer takes a picture in RAW
there is no profile, but this is done when opening the image in PS?
I do use adjustment layers pretty effectively.
It's when I'm ready to print that it gets confusing. Is the most likely scenario
to let Adobe of the Printer (with it's premium ICC) handle color management,
or let Adobe handle color management?
And if I let Adobe handle color management, is the most likely scenario to have the printer set
to "No color management" or "ICC color management"?
I suspect the answer is "Experiment and see", but thus far that has produced
a mixed bag of tricks.
A few questions:
1. Are you doing photography?
Yes, that's all I'm doing at the Present.
2. When you print to the Epson - are you trying to proof for a commercial print job, or are you just printing for yourself?
No, this is strictly a hobby.
3. Are you supplying files to a commercial printer?
Again, no.
4. Have you calibrated and profiled your monitor?
No, but that's probably going to be one of next projects. My monitor (and tablet) is actually a small 10" lcd on a HP Touchsmart notebook
Any suggestions as to a low cost solution?
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:17:25 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: I Don't Understand Color Management
My basic understanding of CM is Source and Destination.
Take a picture, for example. The photographer captures the image in RAW and converts this to an RGB image.
The image is passed on to the designer. If the photographer did their job properly, the image is already tagged with a profile. You can tell this in Photoshop. Beside RGB, there will be *, #, or nothing.
is very, very bad. This means the image is untagged. Nobody knows what it should look like.
means the image is tagged with a profile different from your RGB working space. This is fine.
Nothing means the image is tagged with a profile that matches your RGB working space in Color Settings.
At any rate, the RGB image is usually referred to as a source image. It can be repurposed to a variety of destination color spaces.
The next task is proofing the destination. This can be done on the monitor, if it is properly calibrated and profiled. You can also print a proof (that can get a little more complicated, if you have questions please ask).
For example, you want to know what the image will look like when the commercial printer runs it on his press. Best case scenario is you obtain a CMYK profile from the printer. This is your Proof Color (i.e. Photoshop View: Proof Colors).
Usually it is best to leave source RGB as source RGB. You can place the RGB image in InDesign, and let InDesign convert to CMYK on output. In other words, there is no reason to convert to CMYK in Photoshop (you should however utilize View: Proof Colors)
When you convert in Photoshop you damage the image and there is no going back. This means saving a copy. But by avoiding conversions to CMYK in Photoshop, no need to save copies.
Also by leaving images source RGB, they can be converted to whatever destination you like when you output from InDesign. You could output for a Sheetfed press printing on cover weight coated stock, you could output for a Web press printing on newsprint, or you could even output sRGB for web design. Having source color saves a lot of time, and you're not chasing a bunch of different Photoshop conversions.
Also note: if you make color adjustments in Photoshop, try to use adjustment layers as these are non-destructive.
A few questions:
1. Are you doing photography?
2. When you print to the Epson - are you trying to proof for a commercial print job, or are you just printing for yourself?
3. Are you supplying files to a commercial printer?
4. Have you calibrated and profiled your monitor?
>

LR4 color management oversaturated colors on a dull laptop

I'm starting to use LR4.1 on a Lenovo T500 Win7 laptop with a miserable LCD panel and with an external wide-gamut IPS Dell U3011.
I used to use Picasa (non-color-managed), and have calibrated both displays with Eye-one display2. Its profile loads upon Win7 startup and corrects laptop colours considerably, while the change on the U3011 is hardly noticeable. I used near-native white point and gamma so that most of the laptop display's limited gamut is used, and I can work on the laptop when necessary with predictable relationship to the U3011 display.
The color-managment of LR is markedly different; I can see it set in when moving the image more than halfway from one display to the other on the extended desktop. It slightly desaturates the U3011, which is good. And it pumps up the colors on the laptop too much: the pale-colored images do get closer, but any vivid colors are blown on the display. I'm quite positive about this because I see the saturation level in the color channel "staircases" of a sRGB test image that set in just over half-way in the R and B channel, only the G channel is relatively unaffected. In Picasa this does not occur to such extent, and the unsaturted colours are a bit more different due to different white point & gamma.
Initially I suspected a faulty calibration, but I saw very similar behavior on a similar hw setup with LR4 but without calibration, where Win7 CM was using manufacturer-supplied color profiles for both displays. I would not like to revert to the standard sRGB display profile in Win7 CM because that'd have a bad effect on non-managed programs.
Is there any way to make color management in LR work like non-color-managed applications? Or to adjust the white point & gamma for the laptop display by LR so that it would become more useful with vivid images (yet less accurate)?

Remember that "calibration" is actually two procesesses: calibration and profiling.
Calibration brings the monitor to a defined state by correction tables to correct white point and tone response curve. This information is loaded into the display driver at boot-up, and affects the display for virtually all programs (except a few games and such that bypass the driver).
Profiling measures (just measures, doesn't adjust) the colour space and other parameters of the monitor, after calibration. Generally colour space can't be altered, only measured. It is this measurement that goes in the profile. (Confusingly, the calibration corrections tables are also stored in the profile, despite being nothing to do with the profile!)
Colour management is really about the profile (the profile measurement, not the calibration info). Colour managed programs (and only colour managed programs) use the monitor profile (and the image profile) to convert the RGB values in the image from the image colour space (e.g. sRGB) to the monitor's colour space (as measured and information stored in the monitor profile).
So the change you see when the calibration is applied at boot-up is just that - the calibration. Colour management happens when colour-managed programs display images to the screen.
"The color-managment of LR is markedly different."
Or rather, LR is colour managed, Picasa isn't.
"I can see it set in when moving the image more than halfway from one display to the other on the extended desktop. It slightly desaturates the U3011, which is good. And it pumps up the colors on the laptop too much: the pale-colored images do get closer, but any vivid colors are blown on the display."
When you drag an image from one screen to the other, are you using Lightroom (or another colour-managed application)? In which case you shouldn't see a difference between the two monitors. If you do, then one or both monitor profiles is probably bad. If you're using unmanaged applications, then this is what you expect to see. One (or probably both) screens will be displaying incorrect colour. But each will display different incorrect colour.
"Is there any way to make color management in LR work like non-color-managed applications? Or to adjust the white point & gamma for the laptop display by LR so that it would become more useful with vivid images (yet less accurate)?"
Colour management in LR is always on. And in truth, it's a bit pointless trying to make something behave "like non-color-managed applications". Thing is: non colour managed applications will look different on every monitor. Different unmanaged applications may look the same on your monitor, but they'll look different on someone else's. There's no single "look" of non-managed applications.
The best you can do is export to sRGB for the web. Most monitors have roughly sRGB colour space, so this is the best guess you can make at the right colour space for unmanaged browsers. Using an unmanaged colour workflow yourself is simply adding errors in your system to errors in the viewer's unmanaged system. It's likely to make it worse, not better!

Vista 64 bit and CS4 and color management

This is a question about Vista 64 bit and CS4 and color management. I scan 4x5 film and sometimes end up with up to or even bigger than 1 GB files. Obviously that needs as much memory as possible. Windows XP is limited in this regard and I am in the market for a new speedy computer which won't force me to stay at a snail's pace. In this month's Shutterbug, David Brooks in his Q&A column says to avoid Vista for color management reasons, but offers no explanation or support for his opinion. He implies one should wait for Windows 7 for some unstated reason. With a calibrated monitor and printer and Photoshop controlling color files sent to the printer, why would Vista be any different or worse than XP? Is he on to something or just pontificating? Does anyone know any reliable info about Windows 7 that would make it worth waiting for?
Thanks.

Zeno Bokor wrote:
Photoshop has direct access to max 3.2gb
On Mac OS X, PS CS4 can use up to 8 GB of RAM, but only directly accesses up to 3.5 GB. (Figures quoted from kb404440.) In using PS CS4 on Mac OS, though, direct Memory Usage maxes out at 3 GB even. If you set usage to 100% (3 GB), then plug-ins (including Camera Raw and filters), as well as actions and scripts, can access RAM above that 3 GB to between about 512 MB and about 768 MB total (seems to vary depending on which filters et al that you are using), leaving the rest up to 4 GB for the Mac OS. If you have more than 4 GB, then the amount of RAM above 4 GB is used by PS as a scratch disk. This increases performance significantly for most things because writing to and reading from the hard drive is much slower than doing so with RAM.
I haven't done the testing for actual RAM usage and such for PS CS4 on Vista 64, and Adobe's documentation is very much lacking in detail, but, based on the statement "If you use files large enough to need more than 4 GB of RAM, and you have enough RAM, all the processing you perform on your large images can be done in RAM, instead of swapping out to the hard disk." from kb404439, it seems that PS would be using RAM in very much the same way as I described above for Mac OS, except that the scratch disk usage in RAM wouldn't be limited to 8 GB (instead to how much you have installed). Has anyone done any performance/load testing to know for sure? I didn't see any such studies published, but I am curious if one has been done.
I will agree that there is a definite performance advantage when using PS CS4 (64-bit) on Vista 64, which I've experienced, especially when working very large compositions.
My initial recommendation to the OP to use Mac was based upon reading those articles about bad color management. As I stated before, I have never experienced that problem, and clearly the views of all that have posted here so far indicate that the problem may not be a real issue. (Perhaps this David Brooks fellow and Steve Upton both like to mess with their computers and broke something in Windows?)

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