XDCAM to HDV output to HVR25U

We have been producing content with the Sony Z1U, editing natively in FCP 6x, outputting to HDV tape with the Sony HVR25U that was sent to the DVD producer for SD DVD's. Maybe not the best workflow but worked moderately well.
Recently we replaced our Z1's with a couple EX3's and an EX1 and edited XDCAM natively in FCP. That worked great, unfortunately you can't export an XDCAM sequence to the M25U. So we exported an HDV Quicktime from the XDCAM sequence and then placed that Quicktine into an HDV sequence and tried to print to tape from there. The resulting Quicktime played fine in the timeline but it kept pausing/freezing in the M25U.
To get around this problem we copied the XDCAM timeline and pasted it into an HDV sequenced and then rendered AND THEN conformed for a print to video. It worked but this process took more than five hours for a fourty minute sequence.
Anyone else experience this? Any ideas why FCP would have any trouble printing to tape an HDV Quicktime that it generated from and XDCAM sequence?
We have 2.66MGHz Mac Pro's with 5GB RAM, served by a shared file system that is running about 280MB/s per work station.
Thanks in advance for any help.

its a 40 minute sequence and from the XDCAM time line I exported an HDV 1440x1080i 60 Quicktime which took about three hours to render. I then opened a new project with an HDV sequence and tried to print to tape from there.
When that didn't work I copied all from the XDCAM sequence and pasted it into an HDV time line rendered for about 2 hours and then conformed for at least another 2 hours but it did print to tape successfully.
I would have thought that the rendered self contained HDV Quicktime would print to tape without any difficulty.
In the past I have had this problem trying to print an HDV Quicktime to tape from a firewire attached Lacie, and thought it might be a fragmentation issue. But this Quicktime was stored on our shared file system via fiber channel. So I don't think this is a bandwidth issue but I'm at a lose on this.

Similar Messages

Mixing XDCAM and HDV?? Outputting to SD DVD...

Hi
Earlier this year we shot a documentary on a Sony PDW-F350L HD XDCam (great camera, stunning footage - 35Mbps). Working in FCP has been fine.
We're doing a follow up and budget and logistics dictate that we sadly can't use 350s again (where we're going, carrying 2 Z1s for example is going to be a lot easier). We're also on a fairly steep learning curve (being relatively new to FCP, Compressor etc).
So I'm looking at options. We know that there are significant differences between say a Z1 and a 350 but from my research so far and from some relatively simple testing mixing Z1 footage (native) and 350 footage on FCP, at least editing on the timeline doesn't seem like it's going to present any problems (although thoughts on that welcome).
The issue seems to be outputting. In the first instance we'll be outputting to SD DVD. Yes, that old gem...
Searching round various forums, it seems this problem (HDV - SD) is fairly universal. Solutions seem to range from not working in Native HDV (suggestions vary on the format to ingest in - AIC etc); outputting to different formats first (eg DVCPro HD) and then to MPEG-2; outputting the timeline to tape (DV), re-importing; using some thing like a Matrox MXO to output and others...
We're aware of the shortcoming of HDV and the compressed nature of the format and our expectations, given our kit are realistic. I've even tried putting some PD150 footage on the timeline but that's just not going to cut it.
So, I've got to put a kit list together by next week and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on:
1) Mixing XDCAM and HDV on the timeline and any gotchas we should watch out for.
but more importantly
2) Any suggested routes I can look at to get some reasonable output with these two formats on the timeline - particularly HDV (don't think we'll have time to look at the Matrox route right now).
Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Cheers

Thanks Andy, Michael
That's good input. From an editing point of view we seem to be ok. Although, Michael, I take your point and that's a good suggestion.
The main problem is the workflow to create a decent SD DVD without the artefacts caused by compression/motion etc in HDV (and to some extent XDCAM).
Have read the prores whitepaper at
http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/whitepapers/L342568A_ProResWP.pdf
And looked a little more into understanding GOP structures and it seems that ProRes will help in terms of editing.
The white paper seems to suggest that converting to ProRes, because it uses I frame–only encoding "Ensures consistent quality in every frame and no artifacts from complex motion. "
We'll try some tests but, does anyone know if this is true?
But it also seems that deinterlacing may solve some of the horrendous vertical edge rippling we're getting on the HDV footage when outputting to SD DVD - although if I'm honest I'm not sure how we achive that with our current setting.

HDV outputting to SD DVD... + mixing with XDCAM

Hi
Earlier this year we shot a documentary on a Sony PDW-F350L HD XDCam (great camera, stunning footage - 35Mbps). Working in FCP has been fine.
We're doing a follow up and budget and logistics dictate that we sadly can't use 350s again (where we're going, carrying 2 Z1s for example is going to be a lot easier). We're also on a fairly steep learning curve (being relatively new to FCP, Compressor etc).
So I'm looking at options. We know that there are significant differences between say a Z1 and a 350 but from my research so far and from some relatively simple testing mixing Z1 footage (native) and 350 footage on FCP, at least editing on the timeline doesn't seem like it's going to present any problems (although thoughts on that welcome).
The issue seems to be outputting. In the first instance we'll be outputting to SD DVD. Yes, that old gem...
Searching round various forums, it seems this problem (HDV - SD) is fairly universal. Solutions seem to range from not working in Native HDV (suggestions vary on the format to ingest in - AIC etc); outputting to different formats first (eg DVCPro HD) and then to MPEG-2; outputting the timeline to tape (DV), re-importing; using some thing like a Matrox MXO to output and others...
We're aware of the shortcoming of HDV and the compressed nature of the format and our expectations, given our kit are realistic. I've even tried putting some PD150 footage on the timeline but that's just not going to cut it.
So, I've got to put a kit list together by next week and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on:
1) Mixing XDCAM and HDV on the timeline and any gotchas we should watch out for.
but more importantly
2) Any suggested routes I can look at to get some reasonable output with these two formats on the timeline - particularly HDV (don't think we'll have time to look at the Matrox route right now).
Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Thanks Andy, Michael
That's good input. From an editing point of view we seem to be ok. Although, Michael, I take your point and that's a good suggestion.
The main problem is the workflow to create a decent SD DVD without the artefacts caused by compression/motion etc in HDV (and to some extent XDCAM).
Have read the prores whitepaper at
http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/whitepapers/L342568A_ProResWP.pdf
And looked a little more into understanding GOP structures and it seems that ProRes will help in terms of editing.
The white paper seems to suggest that converting to ProRes, because it uses I frame–only encoding "Ensures consistent quality in every frame and no artifacts from complex motion. "
We'll try some tests but, does anyone know if this is true?
But it also seems that deinterlacing may solve some of the horrendous vertical edge rippling we're getting on the HDV footage when outputting to SD DVD - although if I'm honest I'm not sure how we achive that with our current setting.

Why does Compressor's HDV output look worse than iDVD's output of same?

Okay, here's the thing... for weekly updates I've been sending the client outputs via iDVD. And they've honestly looked great. The HDV footage fills the screen and doesn't show any noticeable compression funkiness. But for the screening of the completed first cut I wanted to deliver what I thought would be an even higher quality look (esp since I intended to deliver the completed project mpeg and AC3), so I exported the HDV cut out of FCP via QT and converted it with Compressor's DVD: Best Quality 90 minutes to turn the HDV into SD 720x480 16:9 letterboxed. I then burned it with DVDSP, complete with nice looking menus, etc. And I was shocked viewing the output. The two clips I'd reversed in FCP stuttered, and even a clip with nothing on it was strobing. Plus, close ups showed noticeable compression on the faces. So what gives? Why does it look so much better when I just slammed it out on iDVD? What don't I "get?" I've scoured the books I have and nothing seems to give me a clue.
Any direction would be greatly appreciated!

Lightroom uses its own raw converter and its own camera profiles to convert the raw data into an image. This will never be the same as the camera-manufacturer’s raw image decoding either in camera or using camera-manufacturer-supplied software or any other third-party software.
Here is a general explanation from a few years ago, that is mostly valid, with the one exception that there are no camera-matching profiles for your brand of camera:
http://www.lightroomforums.net/showthread.php?1285-Why-did-Lightroom-ruin-my-photo
The IDC is apparently using camera settings and is clearly sharpening the image and quashing some of the lens-flare, oversharpening in my opinion.
You can do these sorts of things in LR, too, but you have to tell it to do things, it won’t do this by default.
The 2010 and 2012 are related to Process Version not Profile, and one difference between the two PVs is how the toning responds to near clipping conditions. Your reds are very saturated and near if not actually clipping so it is not surprising that the two raw conversions are not the same.
Can you provide a link to the raw file, using DropBox.com or similar large-file-hosting-service and maybe someone will give some tips on how to make the LR processing closer to what you’re seeing with the camera-manufacturer version.?

Shoot in HDV, Output to DVCAM

I am a newbie to the HDV format and have been outputting programs simply using the print to video command in final cut and a DVCAM deck. I have some HDV footage that may or may not need to be mixed in with DV NTSC footage and was wondering the best way to go about editing/outputting this footage for broadcast on DVCAM.
Would the quality really suffer if i simply edited all of the footage together on a DV NTSC timeline? I figured better that than editing on a timeline better suited for the hdv footage.
Also, one last thing, as far as planning ahead what is the best way to shoot HDV if you know that you will be outputting to DVCAM, I have heard that 1080i 60 is the best wayto go but wasn't sure.
Thanks in advance,
Tyle

Just finishing a project that I did exactly this. It was shot on HDV with a Sony camera. I captured HDV and did a downconvert in the deck to DVanamorphic, recapturing exactly the same clips. You might want to capture and keep the HDV material for use in a SD sequence. On occasion, we found a shot we wanted to blow up and reposition. I simply dropped the HDV shot in the SD timeline and scaled and repositioned. This material was indistinguishable from the SD 100% material. Very handy.

HDV output to a M10U

I can capture from this deck just fine but when I go to the view menu and go to the video out section - all of the HDV options are greyed out. Please help

If you are trying to monitor HDV with your deck using firewire it won't happen. These decks don't have an HDV encoder within them, however they can record a conformed HDV signal. FC must conform the HDV video and the deck needs to be properly setup to record this HDV signal.
Good Luck
Z1

Anyone Know *Why* There's No HDV Output Over FW?

Hi
Seeing as FCP 6 can ingest and play (via Cinema Desktop) HDV/ MPEG2 fine, does anyone know what the technical reason is that it can't stream playback (after rendering edits if need be) or lay back to HDV tape via the built in FW port?
After all it's just a 25mbps data stream right?
Are there just too many HDV formats? Or is it a matter of support still coming?
Thanks for any illumination
Lee

When you're editing DV, the DV stream is converted to analog for viewing externally by the camera/deck/box you're using connected to the FW port on your Mac... so the problem here isn't that FCP can't do it... (it never could and probably never will) . The problem is that the hardware to do this isn't in any HDV device... Bet it's not cheap either. HDV is an MPEG stream, and to decode that in real time converting it to analog would take a LOT of heavy lifting... expensive heavy lifting.
I'd suggest that you get a capture card that will do this... I'd look right at a Kona LH series card. Better yet, if you have an intel Mac, is an Io HD for the job. Capture as ProRes instead of HDV, and you'll find the whole system is faster, and graphics look a ton better.
Jerry

HDV output to 16:9 ratio QT file

I've finsihed a small project on FCP5 shot & edited in HDV. I want to get it out of Final Cut and create a QT file (download or streaming) that retains the aspect ratio 16:9 and has full motion (much like the film trailers you can watch on the Apple site). Is there an easy way to do this? Everything I try ends up being a stretched standard TV frame ratio or something that looks terrible with jerky movement. There should just be a thing you can select in compressor to give what I'm looking for. Any help? Thanks.
Powermac G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Bob -- try this workflow on a small piece and see if it doesn't work for you...
File - Export - Quicktime Conversion - make sure it's set for Quicktime Movie export.
Change compression method to BROADBAND HIGH. THEN click OPTION and then SIZE... change size to 480x270 and click out to save.
Let it run.
Then, open THAT in iTunes and using iTunes, select the video file and right click (control-click) and choose 'convert for iPod.'
That's always worked for me.
When you are done, do another right click on the video file in iTunes and do a SHOW FILE IN FINDER (or something like that.) Look for the .m4v file... that's the iPod video one. Open it up and see if it isn't 16:9.
Good luck,
CaptM

Shoot HDV, capture HDV, edit Hdv, output SD

is that possible?

Certainly. It may take some computer work if you want to drop it back to MiniDV tapes, but you can definately compress it for DVD output without trouble.
~Luke

HDV output to Quicktime problems

We have edited the trailer for a feature shot in 24p HD with the Sony V1U. The imported footage and trailer timeline are both set to 1080i60 at 29.97.
We are now trying to export the trailer (which is a little over 2 minutes) as a Quicktime file. The picture quality of the exported file is excellent, but each snippet of footage seems to end a beat or two earlier than how it plays in FCP. We have tried many different settings for the export and the problem persists. Anyone have a similar problem or know a solution?
Thanks!
MacPro Mac OS X (10.4.7)

The problem is not just at the end. Each individual clip in the trailer (of which there are maybe 35-40 clips varying in length from 2 to 10 seconds each) is missing a bit at the end.
I found a helpful suggestion from stevemitchell on CreativeCow.net: "i'm also having a similar issue. things look and play fine from the timeline but when I export as a QT Conversion there's a problem...the video is out of sync by about 2 seconds. BUT, when I make a self-contained QT from the timeline, it exports fine."
I tried this. The exported file is a Final Cut movie file, so I had to add the .mov extension and then tell it to open in Quicktime. This fixed the timing issue (hooray!), but now the image quality is terrible (lines through image, etc). Also the file size is HUGE.
Anyone have any ideas?

Best "Capture" workflow for projects mixing HDV tape and XDCAM footage

I'm trying to determine the best workflow for projects that combine XDCAM and HDV footage.
I'd obviously do the editing in a project designed for XDCAM, as that's the higher quality footage,
and render the HDV clips in the XDCAM timeline...ending up with an XDCAM end product.
I'd use SONY'S XDCAM TRANSFER to get the clips into FCP.
My question concerns capturing the HDV footage in this scenario. I've never been able to get
the Log and Capture feature for HDV footage to work, unless I've created an HDV project and am capturing into that HDV project.
So, generally, I create an HDV project, open the log and capture utility which is now set to capture HDV, and then capture the footage. I then close that project and create a new project, designed for XDCAM footage. I use XDCAM Transfer to get the XDCAM footage into the project, and I import
the previously captured HDV footage into that browser and start editing, rendering the HDV in the XDCAM timeline.
My question...do I really have to open, what is essentially a "fake" HDV project just to capture that HDV footage? You don't seem to have the option of capturing HDV footage (out of a camera or HDV tape deck) directly into an XDCAM project. If I try to change the capture or audio video settings of the XDCAM project to HDV, you get messages saying you can't do it.
Is there something I'm missing or a more streamlined way of doing this?
Thanks in advance for any input.

No need to jump through these hoops. Just set yourself up with a universal Easy Setup that will handle both. Choose your regular XDCAM HD Easy Setup then open the Audio / Video Settings window and change the Capture Preset to "HDV" and the Device Control Preset to "HDV Firewire" ... then click the "Create Easy Setup" button and save it for recall whenever needed.
Regarding the overall workflow, I'd seriously question the idea of creating XDCAM HD masters. No real benefit to that unless you need to export to XDCAM HD. Much better would be export your final master as Apple ProRes 422.
Best
Andy

HDV mixed format editing and mastering for broadcast TV

Hi
I have HDV blues with regards mixed format and multi time base.
Any help advice will be greatly appreciated.
I have never handled HDV in multiformat and multiple timebase to Mater and output for Broadcast television.
I am hoping to master to DVD directly on the configuration ( details provided below ) to deliver to NTSC and PAL market for DVD retail.
However I would need to take to a post house, one or more quicktime file to Output to Digital Betacam for television broadcast for both NTSC and PAL formats.
with regards
problems I am facing are on two fronts:
1) I am unsure of best quality and workflow to output master on Digital Betacam tape for broadcast TV in NTSC and PAL both formats.
2) With sequence set at HDV 1080 50i, and export setting as current setting, upon render and export of self contained quicktime direct from FCP timeline I face few troubling symptoms;
- that the quicktime exports 3mins to 35 minutes of qt clip but not the whole program of 90 minutes as one clip. System crashes and I have to reboot.
- Another symptom is that by doing above my time line shows aduio as out of sync to video. here i see that Audio tracks A1,A2 as being torn apart at cut edit points and have gap of 1 frame at random ( but not on all edit points ).
A3, A4 and other music and sound fx tracks have slipped off sync by few frames , again at random and also other places the edit comes back in sync with audio.
- Of course I am having to re- render this sequence timeline a zillion times even though the previously rendered files still exist in relevant folder.
Program duration: 90 minutes
current sequence : 1440 x 1080 at 50i
edit sequence time-line consists following source material directly ingested from tape via firewire in native HDV and DV:
VIDEO
-HDV footage of 1440 x 1080, 50i
-HDV footage of 1440 x 1080, 60i
-PAL footage standard and widescreen
-NTSC footage standard and widescreen
- still images
AUDIO
-AUDIO is 16 bits , 48Khz
- Voice Over is 24 bit , 48 Khz
Software: Final Cut Pro version 6
QT: 7.4.1
System configuration:
1) Mackbook pro: OS 10.4.11
graphics/ display card: GeForce 8600M GT
Hardware Overview:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
monitor: one apple cinema display 23 inch
Model Identifier: MacBookPro3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
2) Mac pro: dual core, 2.3 ghz, 3GB RAM
two apple cinema display 23 inch
All project media residing in 1TB Lacie 800 firewire external disk.

Hi guys, thanks for getting back to me. My client has now changed her mind and so I'm just mixing XDCAM and HDV 16:9 footage which is absolutely fine. Awesome. Thanks for your help!
I have one issue - some of the XDCAM footage she has given me is .MP4 video (actually each clip is a folder with 5 files in it (.MP4, .SMI, .PPN, .XML, .BIM). Do I have to convert the .MP4 into .MOV via Compressor to work with it (presumably this will compress it somewhat) or can I convert it simply and losslessly somehow (perhaps using sony XDCAM software?)
Thanks again for any help!
Oliver

Mixing HDV and DVCPRO HD

I'm working on a project where the interviews were shot in HDV 1080i60, and most of the B-roll was shot in DVCPROHD 720p24 (but some in HDV 1080i60).
Ordinarily I'd choose to edit at the lesser resolution, but I'm thinking that since most of the material is 1080i60, that's the ideal sequence resolution and frame rate, even though this would involve uprezzing the 720p material slightly. I'm also thinking that the progressive material will look better in an interlaced sequence than vice-versa, and since the 720p material is DVCPRO HD, it ought to weather the uprez decently. Stop me if you disagree.
The next question is codec. My first thought was: edit in HDV, then swap out for a better codec (ProRes or DVCPRO HD) before final output. That seems better than the prospect of cross-coding everything to ProRes or something. Again, stop me if you disagree.
Thanks, everyone, for your input and helping me think through this...

Thanks X. Why not HQ? Too much disk space for no quality benefit?
Where do editors get to fire the director who didn't think through the post issues?
Seriously, I'm not complaining. This actually is not as bad as the one-hour show which was shot with five cameras: two XDCAM, one HDV, one three-chip DV and one one-chip DV...

Trying to capture HDV with a Canon HV30 CS4

I am new to this HD video.Im trying to capture to PPRO cs4 and not sure what settings to use.When I first start out I have my new project set to HDV after that it takes me to new sequence panel there I have selected the preset HDV 1080p30 (Im hoping this is correct) after this I go to the capture panel there I select where to put the video and I also select HDV.When I try to capture the video does not show on the PPRO preview screen but it does capture the video and run the camera from there. The camera is set to HDV output and while its capturing it shows a fire wire symbol on the camera screen and says something like HDV out
Just like to know if Im doing everything correct.'
Thanks for your time

Had you read the manual or help file on capturing HDV, you would have seen that there is no preview during capture with HDV material. I suggest you read the manual from front to cover to get acquainted with this program and watch tutorials. It will make your editing experience much nicer.

Print To Video HDV dropping out

When I try to print to video from the computer to a Sony HDV 1080i deck it goes and conforms all the video then I start the process and it works fine until a certain spot and will go to black then back on again etc.
I've tried this a few times and at the same spot will get the problem so I checked to make sure it wasn't the tape, I threw away the rendered files and re-rendered them again. I even saved the project to a quicktime movie which played back looks fine. I tried to use the quicktime file and it stops at the same place everytime.
Any suggestions?
I even went and rendered all of my sequences, mixed down the audio etc.
thanks in advance!
Just recently went from FCP 5.1.2 to 5.1.4 I did another project last week and the print to video worked out fine I was wondering if this was a bug in 5.1.4?
Using FCP 5.1.4

conforming and decoding the mpeg2 HDV stream seems to be the hardest thing for the computer to do. Enough RAM, and a beefy video card will help. I think it's a miracle every time I can get a batch of HDV clips to sucessfully capture. Cutting doesn't go too bad, but I have found outputting native HDV to be nearly impossible.
We had about 3 hours worth of 10-15 minute segments to output, and it took close to 3 weeks of constant effort, outputting one sequence at a time. It would black out, stop playing back, freeze up, put all kind of breaks in the timecode even if you pre-stripe the tape. And all the while it would never, ever alert or abort on dropped frames, timcode breaks, etc.
One of the big problems was rendered material. I used a page peel transition (I know, I know, it was a video cookbook, gimme a break) in the HDV segments. I took the time to set up each one with an image for the "back" of the page from the context of the segment. Rendered playback from the timeline looked fine, but as soon as I went to tape, the background of each peel would display whatever image I had most recently applied - all of them - but only on output. I wound up having to replace the backgound of each one one at a time, export each transition as a self-contained movie, bring it back in as clips and re-sync it with the surrounding media. Luckily there were only about 150 of them to do. All this I started doing after the first solid week of failed output attempts. Even then, any rendered material in my sequences would trigger the dreaded dropouts, freeze frames, skips, and substituted rendered material. So after another couple days of attempts, I wound up exporting self-contained movies of every minute of my output, re-editing them back into sequences, and so finally I was able to output to tape in 10-minute chunks, and it only took 5 or 10 tries for each one. The only reason I really needed to go to tape in the first place was because I found impossible to transcode the HDV to SD mpeg for DVD without field artifacts, and abysmally unacceptible quality. So I recaptured the HDV as DV using the deck's downconvert, which seemed to be the only thing it could do well.
I believe that a faster computer with more RAM and a better video card would have made a big difference. Newer versions of FCP have probably solved a lot of the issues I had with the rendered material. Even so, there are aspects of the long-GOP, mpeg-2 stream aspects of HDV and the way that it negatively affects timecode, deck control, and capture and output, that make the format my last choice for professional editing.
For your situation, I'd recommend exporting a self-contained movie, maybe even try AIC, although it'll have to reconform back down to HDV for FW HDV output. Try all your various Mac voodoo steps before starting output - trash prefs, repair permissions, power-cycle everything. You can borrow my feathered headdress and tortoise-shell rattle if you want.
Sorry I couldn't provide a more definitive answer for you...
Max Average

XDCAM to HDV output to HVR25U

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