24 fps timeline

I shot my footage on a DVX-100 (Panasonic 24 fps)
I've captured using the following setting:
Device Control: FireWire NTSC
Capture/Input: DV NTSC 48 kHz Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal
I've set up my sequence as follow:
Frame Size: 720 x 480 NTSC DV (3:2)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: NTSC - CCIR 601 / DV (720 x 480)
Editing Timebase: 24
The problem is, everytime I add a footage to the timeline, the whole clip needs rendering. Did I use the wrong capture/sequence setting?
-C

Yes, you did the wrong thing.
If you shot 24P, then your timeline settings should be 29.97. If you shot 24PA, then your timeline setting should be 23.98, and you should capture using the Advanced Pulldown Removal.
24fps is if you are working with FILM ONLY. Footage shot on film that you intend to have the negative cut. Only film runs at true 24fps. Never use that setting if you are working with video. If you are working with 24PA video, then your frame rate should be 23.98.
If you still need to render, then make your sequence 29.97.
Shane

Similar Messages

Smooth Slow Motion from 50 fps Clip in 50 fps Timeline

If I want 50% smooth slow motion from a 50 FPS video clip, I would normally ask PP to interpret that clip as 25 FPS - that works great.
If however I import the 50 FPS video clip and interprett it as 50 FPS, I would have to set the speed of the video clip in the timeline to 50% to get the same level of slow motion.
The question is - when I follow the latter method, does PP create new frames for the slow motion or is it clever enough to use all the frames from the original 50 FPS video clip? to put it another away, does PP always generate NEW frames for slow motion or does it try to use the frames we are attempting to ignore?
I've done some basic tests and so far I can't see any real difference between the two methods. This leads me to beleive PP is effectively using all of the original 50 frames when the 50 fps video clip is imported into a 50 fps timeline and then slowed down in the timeline by 50%. - if this is the case, well done PP!!! If this is not the case, then it would be a welcomed enhancement in future releases.
I guess what you are all wondering is why would I want to import a 50 fps video clip into a 50 fps timeline and then slow it down in the timeline - well, as a wedding Videographer, it is simply because some parts of the video need to be in slow motion and other parts like messages and speeches need to be interpreted at normal speed. If playback in the timeline is at normal speed, i find it simpler to slow down the "Walking Down the Isle" clips rather than having to speed up the speeaches and messages.
In short, when importing 50 fps video for smooth slow motion, are both the following methods equally effective in terms of smooth motion?
Method 1: Import the 50 fps video clip into 25 fps timeline
Method 2: import the 50 fps video clip into 50 fps timeline and set the speed of the video clip in the timeline to 50% - I'm assuming PP does not generate new frames and gets them from the original 50 fps file instead..
To put it another way, does PP ALWAYS attempt to generate new fromes when slowing down video in the timeline? When extra frames are available in the original video file, does PP try to get the extra frames from that file instead of generating new ones?

I recorded 2 video clips of the same scene. The camera was panning from right to left.
First video clip - recorded at 25 fps
second video clip - recorded at 50 fps
Both video clips recorded at the same panning speed of the same scene.
1. If I import the 25 fps video into 25 fps timeline and slow it down by 50%, the exported video looks jerky.
2. If I import the 50 fps video clip into 25 fps timeline, the exported video looks smooth motion.
3. If I import the 50 fps video clip into 50 fps timeline, slow it down in the timeline by 50%, and export the video as 25 fps then the result is still smooth motion.
I've only done the experiment once and may have to repeat to be absolutely sure.

30 fps into 24 fps timeline leaving full frames

I know this has come up before but I can't find any references to it. I'm trying to put some 30 fps footage into a 24 fps timeline and keep all the frames thereby slowing the clip down a little and making it longer. Whats an easy way?
thanks
powermac g4 933 and macbook core 2 1.833 Mac OS X (10.4.9)

YOu might try CINEMA TOOLS. It can CONFORM 30 to 24...but mind you it does it DESTRUCTIVELY...meaning that it alters the source clip. Bst to duplicate the clip, then try this.
And it may or may not work.
Shane

Use 60 fps footage in 24 fps timeline

I will apologize in advance because this is sort of a stupid question but I swear I have been told there is an easy way to do this...
I have a timeline that is in 24 fps. I also have a few shots that are shot at 60 fps. While I could just put the 60 fps clip into the timeline since frames get dropped it looks very intense and jittery. Now, I know I can conform these to 24 fps using cinema tools but that makes them slow motion.
Is there anyway or any programs that will allow me to conform the 60fps footage into 24 fps without turning them to slow motion?

and set everything to BEST...
... then go have a nice dinner at a restaurant with linen table cloths, a good night's sleep, a leisurely breakfast, a late lunch and stop by to check on the process before you start the cycle again.
Best is VERY computationally intensive. I'd start with "Better" in frame controls and see if it gives you acceptable results. If not, then go the "best" - and living large - route.
Cheers,
x

Why there's a lenght difference between 24fps and 23,976 fps timelines with the same clip?

I was working on a 23,976fps project and I've tried to import a short animated sequence of 44 tiff frames in my timeline in my Premiere CS5.
I've imported the sequence, interpreted the footage to 23,976fps (as it was rendered in AE) to check it before sending it to a finish house.
First issue. Even if I set the framerate to 23,976, Premiere CS5 shows me 23,98 on interpret footage window. I've assumed it as a rounded number.
When I drag the clip to my 23,976 sequence, the clip shows as 43(!) frames length on info panel. It misses one frame. Putting the sequence over the original video, It really misses a frame.
I decided to make a test. And placed the same clip, interpreted the same way on a 24fps sequence, and the clip shows as 44 frames length on info panel.
How can, the same clip, shows different amount of frames (I'm not talking about time, but simply raw frames), on different timelines? It does not make any sense! If my sequence has 44 frames, It should show as 44 frames independent of the timeline I've imported it. Am I Right?
Just for test, I´ve imported the same sequence on AE, and in it shows as 44 frames on a 23,976 timeline. How can I trust Premiere frame interpreting this way?
Just one more thing. The scene used as base for the AE animation, has 44 frames, and it was measured and cut from a 30s film on the same premiere that is having this weird behavior.
Can anyone explain to me what Just have happened? It´s driving me Crazy!
Thanks in Advance
Mauricio Mendes

There's a long and storied history behind the concept of a drop frame tmecode. It traces its origin to early color TV in the USA, and was a way to get rid of artifacting that was visible on B&W TVs when watching the color signal (color subcarrier).
Basically, by having your intermediate timebase set wrong, you were having PPro drop a frame. That's why you saw the mismatch in frame numbers.

25fps out from a 30 fps timeline

I have shot a lot of stuff on a Canon5d which has 30fps. Can i output this off of the timline as a self contained .MOV file at 25 fps? I know it will slow things down 15%, but I can get away with this , Otherwise I have to go through complex standards conversion. Ouputing through QT conversion is too "jumpy".

Hi
Can this be a NTSC to PAL (29.97 to 25 fps) issue ?
If so I do
• Export out as QuickTime .mov (as is)
• Import into JES_Deinterlacer and let this do the conversion
Attention - In my cases it's the other way around mostly PAL -> NTSC
Because
• Most PAL DVD-player can playback NTSC (old TV then in BL/W)
• Near NO NTSC DVD-players can playback PAL - at all
If play back on a Mac - Don't convert - Plays PAL as well as NTSC greatly.
Yours Bengt W

Changing a timeline from 24fps to 30 fps after project started

HELP! I've somehow started a project with a 24 fps timeline when it should have 30fps. I just recently noticed my 1080/60i footage was playing back with a bit of a judder and then saw that the timeline had the wrong frame rate.
Anyway I can correct this without losing what I've done? Or start a new project and copy over what I've done?

You may wish to use MPEG Streamclip to convert 24fps to 29.97fps. It seems to work rather well.
look at www.squared5.com for the most recent mac compatible version: 19.9.3b4 beta. You'll also need to look at the instructions for any additional plug-ins.

Best Practice for 8mm 18 fps movies

I've just transferred a bunch of old 8mm home movies as image sequences. They were shot at 18 frames per second and transferred frame-for-frame as a series of TIFFs.
My goal is to edit these things in an 18 fps timeline and then export the finished video as an 18 fps quicktime -- then post them on Vimeo. It seems that this will produce the smallest amount of artifacting.
I've imported the clips and set their frame rate in "Interpret Footage". And I've created sequences at 18 fps by dragging a clip to the new sequence icon. My problem now is how to export. All the export options limit you to a menu of framerates -- but the menu doesn't include 18 fps. FLV let's you set a "same as source" framerate, but I'd prefer to create quicktimes. I know that I can do this in After Effects, but it's easier to do the editing work in Premiere.
Anybody have any suggestions how I can output at 18 fps? And will Vimeo (or any other video hosting service) accept that rate? And if this won't work, then what's the best way to get them to 24 fps? Would that be Twixtor?
Many thanks to anybody who can offer any suggestions --
Steve

For what it's worth, I ended up doing all the work in After Effects. It's much easier to edit in Premiere, but all the effects work I had to do was easier in AE and I didn't like worrying about that Intermediate Frame Rate issue.
Other Notes:
Vimeo is happy to show an 18 fps file. They don't say so in the docs, but if you ask their terrific support people, they'll tell you. I ended up creating a countdown timer, uploaded it, played it back and checked it with a stopwatch -- it played perfectly at 18. (I have a Plus account, which might make a difference, but I don't think so.)
AE won't render an MP4 file at 18 fps. If you ask it to render an 18 fps timeline as an MP4, you get a 15 fps MP4. So you have to make an H.264 Quicktime, which can be any framerate. And as far as I can tell mp4 files can work at any frame rate, but AE will only create them at standard rates. If anybody knows a better way to create an 18 fps file that Vimeo will accept, I'd love to know it.
Thanks to all of you for your input --
Steve

What frame rate timeline should I use for 1080p 60fps premiere pro

When using 1080p 60fps clips what sequence should I use when creating a timeline that would work the best for slow mo application?
I read that you should use a 24 fps timeline but i'm not sure?
Also I have a few 720 @ 120 fps, should I create a separate sequence for that and what kind of timeline should I use since cs5 only has 1080 @ 60fps option?

24 is a good frame rate for most animations but some people like 30 and for the max stress on user systems and animation smoothness, use 60.

DVCPRO HD Footage at 720p50 -- should I do this as 25 fps or 50fps timebase

I am cutting a feature shot of P2 cards capturing the DVCPRO HD PAL footage as 720p50. (from the european Panasonic HVX200 camera)
While I am not experiencing many differences editing in FCP between the two options, I really want to resolve the question of working at a 25fps or 50fps timebase ASAP.
my instincts suggest working at 25fps (and the 720p50 plays back just fine at that rate). Am I missing something?
Matt

Yes, this is the correct issue to bring up. Is there any way to test footage to make sure it was 720pN vs 720p flavors of 50fps? Because i can create a 50fps timeline and playback this media just fine or I can create a 25 fps timeline and this media plays fine. I just received the cards already copied to FCP, which makes me a bit nervous. I don't know whether FCP 6.0.1 doubled each progressive frame or what.
I know that QTP under the hood is extremely powerful, but I would love a tool or QTP frontend that would give me access to ALL information about media. Headers, flags, everything.
Thanks for mentioning this issue -- am I out of luck if the DP doesn't know the answer?
Matt

Fps question

Hi,
So I cut something in FCP in a 23.98 fps timeline. (video was shot in 24pA). When I export using compressor i export with 23.98 fps. Strangely enough, when I bring the mpeg2 files into DVDSP and look at it in the inspector, it says 29.98 fps. Anyone know why this would be? Is it something to do with exporting in mpeg2?
Thanks!

Am I not understanding P.49 of the manual correctly?
No, the manual is misleading in this regard.
While, yes, your material has been encoded by Compressor as 23.98 fps, that's not actually a legal video rate according to the DVD-Video spec (video for NTSC DVDs must be encoded for 29.97 playback).
What actually happens is that Compressor adds the necessary flags - so that an interlaced player can add the 3:2 pulldown - when doing the encode. It's this (flag-inclusive) rate that DVDSP is reading. So, 29.97 Non-Drop is the correct reading for a 23.98 .m2v file imported into DVDSP. However, if you open your 23.98 .m2v file in QuickTime player, it will be read (also correctly) as 23.98 fps.
One Important Note: because this is all so confusing, some folks export a 23.98 QT movie - reference or otherwise - from FCP directly into DVDSP. In this instance, DVDSP reads QT files as 23.98 but DVDSP's internal encoder does not produce 23.98 .m2vs. What you'll end up getting is an interlaced 29.97 file with the pulldown frames actually inserted into the stream, defeating the purpose of shooting/editing/outputing in 23.98 fps.
In other words, stick with your current workflow, it's correct.

Can I tell Premiere NOT to drop frames for 25fps 24 fps?

I've got some 25 fps clips (which have undergone PAL speedup from the original 24 fps), excerpts from which are in a 24 fps sequence. I want to tell Premiere to forget about dropping one frame each second (which is what it does to conform 25 fps to 24 fps) and instead to play the video at 24 fps. Reinterpreting the footage to 24 fps is of no use because the in/out points are then not in the right place.
So, given a 25 fps clip sent to a 24 fps timeline with lots of in/out points, can I tell Premiere to keep the in/out points exactly where they are, and to not drop frames?

Thanks for the responses. I have found a workaround for the problem, a problem which came about because I didn't reinterpret PAL video (from film that was originally 24 fps) to 24 fps before I started editing. I'm extracting interesting segments from old newsreels back to the 1930s, and since I had already edited several hundred segments, I coiuldn't face repeating the process. What follows is mostly for my benefit in case I ever had to do it again (forums are a good place to archive info), but it may be of interest to others.
PAL > 24 fps (how it should be done)
Pal video which has been digitised from 24 fps film (and hence undergone PAL speedup of 25/25), if it is then imported into a Premiere 24 fps sequence will have jerky video at the top and bottom because one of the interlaced fields will be dropped every 0.5 second with the result that the line at the top, bottom, or both will jump up and down. To stop this happening, reinterpret the video to 24 fps before editing in a timeline. This slows the video down to its correct fps (expands the time).
Slowing the edited video if NOT reinterpreted first
It is possible to correct the problem after setting up a sequence (if the clip was not reinterpreted to 24 fps) by changing the Speed/Duration to 96% (ctrl-click the clip in the Sequence timeline). This slows down the video/audio to the correct speed and also stops Premiere from trying to conform as described in the previous paragraph. However, these additional steps have to be taken:
Before changing the speed, video and audio clips that abut each other have to be separated to allow for the time expansion. After the expansion, move them back into place. If this is not done, video and audio at the juncture will overlap with loss of video and audio.
The expansion may cause an extra frame of video to appear at the start of a clip. This has to be checked for and removed.
Titles will not appear in the correct position. These also have to be moved manually.

24 fps on FCE HD

Does Final Cut Express support a 24 fps timeline and CINEMA TOOLS? Also can you capture DV PAL?

Yes, you can capture DV PAL. If you're talking about true 24fps material, then no, FCE does not support it.

Trying to import 24 fps audio

I edited my project in 24 fps (not 23.98). Then I exported a 24 fps quicktime file for my sound editor and he created a mix using protools. When I import his mix (48 kHz, 24 bit wav) the computer seems to think this is a 23.98 file. When I stretch the audio it synchs fine.
Here's where it gets strange for me. If I export my stretched video and re-import it into the same 24 fps sequence I'm back where I started. No matter what I try, I can't seem to export and re-import 24 fps audio without losing synch.
The finished mix needs to go to a post house for 16mm optical sound, but I have no way of telling if the mix is in synch or even whether the mix is timed to 24 fps (which I suspect) or 23.98.
Any information is appreciated, thanks.

Thanks for jumping in.
I tried to avoid describing the workflow - it kind of defies description at this point. This project originated in 16mm 15 years ago. Most of the picture editing was done in 16mm on a flatbed Steenbeck editing table. Then for reasons that are complex, I switched to FCP and finished my edit that way. To complicate matters, it's a mixed media project bringing together 16mm, super 8 and some video. The workflow is unconventional to say the least, which is why is a shortage of people I can ask about this issue.
However, regardless of workflow, the issue I'm experiencing (specifically as it related to working with FCP) is the following:
When I export audio from a 24 fps timeline and re-import the aiff file back into the same timeline, it is no longer in synch. I've never had this problem working in 29.97 or 23.98, so I'm baffled. I've now tried this with other source footage unrelated to my project and I get the very same result. There must be something unique about working in 24 fps that I don't know about and can find no reference to in the manual.
I invite anyone to try this: Create a sequence (I've tried two codecs: photo-jpeg and DVCPRO 50), set the editing timebase to 24, plop in 30 minutes of video footage, export the audio, re-import the audio and place it back in the sequence. When I perform this operation on my machine I lose synch.
My sequence settings: 720 * 480, DVCPRO50, 48 kHz audio, 24 bit (the editing timebase, of course, is set to 24)
Thanks for your help.

Quick Question qith 59.94 fps output

Hello,
I have a varicam shot film that I need to export. It was edited in FCP 6 using a DVCPRO HD 59.94 FPS timeline. I would like to try making a 24p SD DVD, so would I export the full sequence, then use compressor's reverse telecine option in the mpeg encode? Or perhaps I was thinking of reimporting the 59.94fps final file back into a new sequence and using the DVCPRO HD Frame rate converter. What do you guys think?
thanks

The removal of the redundant frames needed to be done at the time of capture...before you edited. Now that you have edited, they cannot be removed if you want a good looking project. BUT...if the project LOOKS 24p...if it has that look, then you are fine. There is no reason that you MUST BE at 23.98...as long as it has the film cadence look. Just burn the DVD.
#42 - Quick and dirty way to author a DVD
Shane's Stock Answer #42 - David Roth Weiss' Secret Quick and Dirty Way to Author a DVD:
The absolute simplest way to make a DVD using FCP and DVDSP is as follows:
1. Export a QT movie, either a reference file or self contained using current settings.
2. Open DVDSP, select the "graphical" tab and you will see two little monitors, one blue, one green.
3. Select the left blue one and hit delete.
4. Now, select the green one, right click on it amd select the top option "first play".
5. Now drag your QT from the broswer and drop it on top of the green monitor.
6. Now, for a DVD from an HD source, look to the right side and select the "general tab" in the track editor, and see the Display Mode, and select "16:9 pan-scan."
7. Hit the little black and yellow burn icon at the top of the page and put a a DVD in when prompted. DVDSP will encode and burn your new DVD.
THATS ALL!!!
NOW...if you want a GOOD LOOKING DVD, instead of taking your REF movie into DVD SP, instead take it into Compressor and choose the BEST QUALITY ENCODE (2 pass VBR) that matches your show timing. Then take THAT result into DVD SP and follow the rest of the steps. Except you can choose "16:9 LETTERBOX" instead of PAN & SCAN if you want to see the entire image.
Shane

24 fps timeline

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