Amex 7-10 day message.

So midnight was my 181st day and decided to go for my next 3xcli increase.  Got that dreaded 7-10 day message.  Never did a thing wrong with them.  Always put at least 2.5k-3k a month on it and pif the same day.  Had a zero balance when I hit that button.  Do you think my new accts spooked them?  Are they like Chase?  Should I call, chat or just wait.  I know I can app again in 90 days.  Just thought it was strange.  My limit now is only 6k and I asked for the 18K.  Decided to wait for the next round and ask for 25k-30K.  I'm almost sure it's a denial.  I did try twice since I thought maybe they're on CA time.  But still no dice. 

So midnight was my 181st day and decided to go for my next 3xcli increase.  Got that dreaded 7-10 day message.  Never did a thing wrong with them.  Always put at least 2.5k-3k a month on it and pif the same day.  Had a zero balance when I hit that button.  Do you think my new accts spooked them?  Are they like Chase?  Should I call, chat or just wait.  I know I can app again in 90 days.  Just thought it was strange.  My limit now is only 6k and I asked for the 18K.  Decided to wait for the next round and ask for 25k-30K.  I'm almost sure it's a denial.  I did try twice since I thought maybe they're on CA time.  But still no dice. 

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  • Amex 3Xcli 7-10 day message.

    So midnight was my 181st day and decided to go for my next 3xcli increase.  Got that dreaded 7-10 day message.  Never did a thing wrong with them.  Always put at least 2.5k-3k a month on it and pif the same day.  Had a zero balance when I hit that button.  Do you think my new accts spooked them?  Are they like Chase?  Should I call, chat or just wait.  I know I can app again in 90 days.  Just thought it was strange.  My limit now is only 6k and I asked for the 18K.  Decided to wait for the next round and ask for 25k-30K.  I'm almost sure it's a denial.  I did try twice since I thought maybe they're on CA time.  But still no dice. When does the clock start ticking if I get a denial?  From the date they sent out the letter or when I hit the button?  

    Thanks Yes-it's-me!    Tantongol, I will try the automated once and see what happens.Taxi, yes, I have many new accts along with the inq's.  I know that is it.  Half when I opend Amex and the other half within those 6 months leading up until today.  taxi818 wrote:
    tantongol wrote:
    Sandibeach22 wrote:
    So midnight was my 181st day and decided to go for my next 3xcli increase.  Got that dreaded 7-10 day message.  Never did a thing wrong with them.  Always put at least 2.5k-3k a month on it and pif the same day.  Had a zero balance when I hit that button.  Do you think my new accts spooked them?  Are they like Chase?  Should I call, chat or just wait.  I know I can app again in 90 days.  Just thought it was strange.  My limit now is only 6k and I asked for the 18K.  Decided to wait for the next round and ask for 25k-30K.  I'm almost sure it's a denial.  I did try twice since I thought maybe they're on CA time.  But still no dice. When does the clock start ticking if I get a denial?  From the date they sent out the letter or when I hit the button?  Well, I just had my 2nd time 3x CLI from then yesterday, I think new accounts doesn't affect it because I had 3 new accounts, CSP, Discover It and DCU platinum last June. DId you go through automated voice for your CLI or ask them through online? Because what I did was I called the back number of my card and went through the automated system, asked for CLI and asked me to put my requested amount which is 3x of my current limit, $18,000. then asked my income, I put it. after a few seconds. says Congratulations! My 181 days was July 9, because I got CLI last 01/09/15. But I apped yesterday which is Jul 11 because I wanted to make sure that I wont be asking to early. P.S I got EX FICO 757Of course new accounts affect if you get cli. But if you only had 3. Then no. you are correct. most of us here at my fico are talking about the 6-12 range of new accounts hehehe not 3.I think in between my first cli at 61 days and my 3x at 181 days. let me count. 8 new accounts from then until i went for it. So im sure it spooked em. but i will go for it again september. 

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  • The Definitive Amex 3X CLI Guide

     Note:  while this was at one time the correct guide, recent changes in policy have changed.  There will be updated information coming soon. One of the most popular topics of discussion on the forum is the American Express 3X CLI. Here is a small guide I put together to alleviate some misconceptions based on personal experiences and discussions here and other boards. Please feel free to suggest modifications or enhancements. Please don't copy/paste the information to other boards. Linking here is fine.  
    What is the 3X CLI?
    =========================================================== American Express is one of the most sought after credit cards in the market. They are also typically one of more generous companies with respect to credit limits outside of the credit unions. For folks who do not qualify for NFCU and other credit unions known to issue high credit limits despite low FICO scores and or moderate credit history, the best way to get high(er) CLs is to first get accepted into American Express and then apply for an increased credit limit upto 3 times the existing approved limit after a certain minimum number of days have passed (discussed in details below). This really comes in handy when the initial approved limit is on the lower side (example $2,000) due to internal American Express risk score models, mostly for folks starting out in their credit journey or with other risky credit/income factors. After completing the "60" day magic number of the account being open and in good standing, one can request an increased credit limit upto 3X the initial limit starting with the 61st day, meaning someone who got approved for $2,000 could request that the new credit limit be $2,000 x 3 = $6,000, someone who got approved for $3,000 initially could request the new credit limit be $3,000 x 3 = $9,000 and so on.  Why is the 3X CLI Important?
    =========================================================== Credit Utilization is one of the most important components of the FICO score (30% per official wording from FICO).Given the same amount of spending, with higher available credit, utilization is lower and hence FICO scores are higher. But more importantly this is a gateway to getting approved for other prime cards/rewards cards like Visa Signature, MasterCard World, points, cashback etc offered by various lenders like Chase, Citi, BoA, US Bank etc who typically issue them if they see an existing high limit card. Higher limits from one lender attracts higher limits from others up until the overall available credit reaches a certain threshold. No other lender is known to have a 3X CLI policy and that too as early as the 61st day. One may be able to procure a CLI from other lenders but typically it is a hard inquiry or sometimes flat out denial because the account is considered too new. Amex is the only lender that offers this. More recently though GEMB issued credit cards are also known to get generous increases (sometimes even > 3X initial limits) via a Soft Pull. This policy is relatively new but widely reported to be successful across different boards.  Is the 3X CLI automatic or guaranteed?
    =========================================================== Most definitely not. The components factored into a CLI approval or denial are not published but widely accepted to be similar to the FICO models. Amex also asks for income and rent during the CLI request process. Other factors remaining same, chances of a CLI approval are higher if the account has always been in good standing e.g lower utilization, low risk spending patterns, on time payments etc. The 3X CLI request has to be manually initiated by the account holder after becoming eligible. 
    Will there be a hard inquiry when requesting 3X CLI?
    ===========================================================
    Fortunately not. American Express initiates soft pulls on Experian throughout the life of an open account with random frequency. During the first 60 days, it is not uncommon for Amex to have soft pulled at least 3-4 times. The CLI approval or denial will be based on the last soft pull before the CLI request and other factors like income/rent etc. A new hard pull or soft pull is not initiated when requesting the 3X CLI. If in doubt, get a copy of your Experian report and see when Amex issued a soft pull to gauge account statistics at that snapshot and request CLI accordingly. Post 186 explains how to get your experian report and check for soft pulls. If there are concerns that the overall utilization or Amex utilization was high during the last soft pull, it might be worth waiting a few more days and then applying for CLI after Amex has issued a new soft pull. 
    When does an acccount become eligible for CLI?
    =========================================================== Amex does NOT increase an account's credit limit during the first 60 days after it has been OPENED, or for at least 6 months from the last credit limit increase. The key word here is OPENED aka the account creation date. There are a few ways to find out the exact date the account was opened. a) Call the number on the back of the card and simply ask the friendly customer service rep. There is nothing to be worried about here or get nervous. You are not asking for a CLI to the rep, but simply the day the account was opened. This can be done during card activation itself or any point later. Some friendly CSRs will also calculate and mention the first eligible date for CLI (61st day since account opening). If they are not aware of the first eligible date, simply ask for account opening/creation date and calculate it yourself. b) "Date Opened" field on your Equifax or TransUnion credit report. Both EQ and TU report the account opened day and month accurately (Equifax started doing this recently). 3rd party credit pullers may or maynot pull the date opened field accurately, the official credit reports are the only reliable source. It is important to note that the year field in "Date Opened" is affected by your American Express Member Since date, so may not reflect the year the card was originally opened. The only downside is one has to wait for the card to report to EQ and TU first, but Amex is usually very prompt to report.
    c) Before the first statement has been cut, the account opened date is reflected under the Recent Charges field next to the "Since". Example in this pic, the account opened date is Jan 08. The "Since" field changes every statement period as it starts tracking the spending for that statement, so it is a good idea to get the account open date information using this method as early as possible. Existing Amex card members with an online profile are at an advantage to use this method because any new approved cards show in the profile before the card has been delivered physically, displaying several key account details like the account open date, first statement closing date, last 5 digits of card etc. First time Amex card members should try to setup the online profile as early as possible after physically receiving the card(s) to take advantage of this method as the first statement can sometimes close very soon after receiving the card(s). 
    Example calculation of 1st eligibility date taking the above screenshot as an example (Account opened : 01/08/2013). The account will complete 60 days on March 9, 2013 based on the following calculations:
    Number of days by January 31 : 23
    Number of days by February 28 : 28
    Number of days by March 9 : 9
    Total days open by March 9 : 60 In this example the first eligible date for CLI is March 10, provided there have been no other CLIs for any other accounts in the last 6 months, as the 60 days are completed by March 9th,  A better and easier way to calculate Amex milestones has been explained in Post 227. Using the time and date calculator, we see the same result that we got from the manual calculation above. 
    How to request the CLI?
    =========================================================== a) Calling the number on the back of the card. The number is unique to each credit product and is automated. Usually the option to request a credit limit increase is option #4 or #5, or if you are comfortable a CSR can take the application and let you know approval/denial once they submit. If you are denied, they may not be able to give the specific reason and you have to wait for an email or a letter in the mail outlining the reasons. b) Logging into your account. Click on "Profile and Preferences -> More Options -> Manage Credit Limit" under Account Management.  It is also available by clicking "Manage My Account"(Toggled to "HIDE ACCOUNT OPTIONS" in the pic below) next to the "Outstanding Balance/Available Credit" on main page    In both cases you want to request the new credit limit itself (e.g $6,000 if initial limit is $2,000). Don't calculate the increase ($6.000 - $2,000 = $4,000) yourself and mention it. 
    What happens if you are denied CLI?
    =========================================================== If you jumped the gun before the 60 days/6 months rule, the reason for denial is considered ineligibility. If that is the case you can reapply after the original and correct 60day/6month timeline. You do not have to wait an additional 90 days, so the clock doesn't get reset. If you were eligible and got denied due to other factors, then you are ineligible to reapply for another 90 days since the denial date. If you get the message after requesting CLI, that a decision will be mailed within 7-10 days, it most likely means that the CLI has been denied. There is an outside chance that the letter that comes from Amex may ask for a signed 4506T in order to give further consideration to the CLI request(details below) but in 99% of the cases it is a letter outlining the reasons for denial. It also provides the true FICO score from the bureau that was used in the decision making process. Most of the time it is Experian FICO, but Amex is known to use EQ and or TU in rare circumstances. Sometimes the reason(s) for denial is also sent via email immediately after the CLI request in addition to the letter in mail. Update 06/23/2013 : Lately there have been reports of approvals in emails within a 24 hr period after initially getting the 7-10 day message. The 7-10 day message indicates manual review and there has been a report of successful partial CLI after talking to CSR post 7-10 day message as well in Post 182  Can you request 3X CLI again after 6 months since last CLI?
    =========================================================== Absolutely. There have been lots of success stories where people have gone from $2,000 to $6,000 to $18,000 because their income and credit profile supported the increase request. It is generally tougher to get the full 3X CLI after 6 months on the same account since the first CLI however. Even if a 3X CLI is requested, Amex may counter offer a partial increase which you can choose to accept or refuse. It is a good idea to not short change yourself and ask for a partial increase from the beginning because Amex system is smart enough to offer and approve a partial CLI if eligible. Amex may request documentation to support a CLI to a CL above $25K, including a request for a 4506T.  Accounts are not suspended, nothing is mandatory. They may ask for documents, and if you don't present them, they may deny the CLI. More details below.  Additional Documentation/4506T for certain CLI Requests
    =========================================================== For certain CLI requests, Amex sends a letter requesting a signed 4506T from the card holder. Amex can then obtain tax return transcripts from IRS in order to verify income. Here is a sample tax return transcript which shows what kind of information can be obtained via a signed 4506T. A tax return transcript has far more details than just income and hence is considered very intrusive by many. If Amex does not receive the signed 4506T within 30 days from the date on the letter, then no further consideration is given to the CLI request and a letter of denial is sent. No CLI can be requested for 90 days from the date in the denial letter. Sending back the signed 4506T also doesn't guarantee a CLI approval as Amex will also evaluate the usual credit factors via soft pulls on Experian in addition to income verification. Income to overall credit available across all accounts(amex and non-amex) is one of the key factors for Amex Internal Risk Score. Lower risk score improves chances of getting approved for the CLI. The following often (but not always) are potential reasons why Amex asks for 4506T for a CLI request.  New requested credit limit exceeds $25,000 for that particular account.New requested credit limit would make overall credit extended across all Amex revolving accounts exceed $34,500 (post 123)High internal risk score due to income on file to overall credit across amex and non-amex accounts ratio being too low.Unusual/large/manufactured/risky spending patterns. It is important to note that this whole process,although inconvenient/complicated/intrusive, is different from the dreaded Amex Financial Review. During an Amex FR, all accounts are suspended and sending back the signed 4506T is mandatory in order to be considered for lifting the suspension. For business accounts, even more documentation is required during an FR. Also an FR can happen at any time and not necessarily after requesting an increase in credit limit.    Some generic Amex CLI Guidelines
    =========================================================== Requesting CLI > 3X current limit results in automatic denial. Letter in the mail indicates that credit limit cannot be greater than three times the current limit. So American Amex credit limits are capped at 200% increase. Update: Requesting CLI > 3X no longer results in automatic denial. If the account is eligible for CLI, then new limit is counter offered keeping the 200% cap in effect(meaning CLI counter offered will not exceed 3X current limit under any scenario)Canadian Amex are capped at 50% increase every 6 months (Post 45)Minimum 6 month since last CLI rule applies across ALL accounts held by an individual and includes both personal & business accounts for the same person. So if CLI was successful on a personal account, no CLI can be approved on all other personal and business accounts for the same person for a period of 6 more months. (Posts 5 and 6 of the AmEx 61 day CLI result: 7-10 day written response thread)Credit limits can be moved between accounts only after the completion of 13 statements cycles on both the donor account. Post 170 explains how to move limits between Amex cards. Additionally limits cannot be moved between personal and business cards as mentioned in Post 171 Moving credit limits doesn't reset the 6 month clock and is a backdoor to receiving CLI on same account twice within 6 months (Post 128)"6 months" timeline used in context of this guide actually is 180 days to be more precise (not 6 calendar months)  

     Carrying Balance vs PIF & Other Utilization Factors=========================================================== This section is a work in progress.  To see how charge cards affect credit scores, please check Post 204Amex clearly dislikes carrying balance. Check Post 189 to see more details and the official reason for denial as "one or more payments received in the past 12 months on your american express account were too low given the outstanding balance and repayment history"          Change Log
    =========================================================== 06/23/2013: All changes since last update marked in RED Added method to check Amex softs in official EX reportAdded time and date calculatorAdded verbiage to 7-10 message section to reflect recent experiences.Modified CLI > 3X point in generic CLI guidelines.Modified verbiage for moving credit limits to reflect 13 statement cycles for donor account only. Added links on how to move credit limits and restriction clause to move limits between personal and business cards.Added a new work-in-porgress Carrying Balance vs PIF section.
    03/30/2013: "Letter in 7-10 business days" interpretation added in "What happens if you are denied CLI?" section thanks to Revelate03/29/2013: Modified verbiage on method (c) to find account eligibility date, corrected some typos, added new 4506T section, updated generic CLI guidelines.01/26/2013: a) Added section "Some Generic CLI Guidelines") b) Added pic for another way to access CLI online c) Modified verbiage in "What happens if denied CLI".01/14/2013: Minor edits in formatting and ready for sticky.01/13/2013: Initial document. Changes incorporated via posts from bradpitt (GEMB), OptimasPrime (cropped pic) and Walt_K (4506T documentation)  

  • Amex SPG 10K SL w/ Major Derog

    Just wanted to share in case anyone who is still working on a rebuild would find it useful. Tried to boil it down to bullets so it's as straightforward as possible. A year ago I had gotten my scores into the 680s at all 3, and got a targeted mail offer for a Green charge card with 25K MR points. At that time I had an unpaid C/O for 19K showing from 4 years ago (auto repo) and a couple other baddies (a paid C/O for $129 from 4 yrs ago and lates from student loans from 5 yrs ago). The C/O had stopped updating 4 yrs ago.Applied for the Green, and after reading that you could usually get a revolver right after approval for a charge card using the same EX pull, I checked their online offers and saw that I could also get the EveryDay card with 15K MR pointsApplied for the Green, instapproved, and then the ED, instapproved for 1K with lowest available APR of 12.99%Since then, I tried every 90 days for a CLI on the ED but was declined citing my score and derogs. (The C/O started updating monthly again in November 14 and has been continuing to update ever since).Meanwhile, I added a DCU card with a 5K limit and two Cap One cards to my wallet (the Venture with a 10K limit and the Plat Prestige with a 5K). Those grew to 13K and 7K respectively after 3 statements.In May my EX was up to 714, so I added a Delta Amex Gold card, instapproved for 2K with 19.24% APRThen in June this year, I was again eligible to try for a CLI on the EveryDay and it worked, up from 1K to 3K.So, I decided to try for the SPG last night, because I think the Starpoints will be a good currency for me (planning to downgrade the Venture to a QS when the AF comes due, so I could afford one more AF card)Was not instapproved, got the 14-day message. Called in this morning, and after a couple verification questions got approved for 10K. Gave me the 19.24% APR, which I think is their highest, but doesn't matter since I'll always PIF on a rewards card. Again, still have the unpaid C/O showing up monthly, as well as the paid CO and those student loan lates. I think the reason I succeeded was because I now have a full year of spending & paying history with Amex, during which I've PIFd every product every month. (Overall spend of about 15K across all 3 cards over the past year). Current scores are below, income has been steady at 76K during all of the above. Hope this is helpful to anyone else who's rebuilding and maybe wasn't sure if Amex was worth applying to. Happy to answer any other questions about my file or stats if useful.

    Hey JustMe, Thanks for the note, and it was a bummer that it took so long to get the CLI on the EveryDay. What I noticed as I read these boards is that this seems to happen with folks who have baddies - that Amex will make you wait about 11 months from the date of open to be eligible for your first 3x CLI. And that's exactly what happened to me - opened the account on July 11 2014, and on June 12 2015 I got my first CLI approval. I'm assuming (fingers crossed) that because I got this one, and because my SPG's limit is so much better, that I should now be on-track to get a CLI every 6 months on one of my cards. My strategy for that is going to be to still focus on the ED, because Amex does allow you to transfer some of your limit to other cards but only when the "donor card" has been open for 13+ months. So, in December, I'm going to ask for the ED to go to 9K, move 3K of that over to the Delta, and thus get all 3 of my cards to 5K+ (which feels like a genuinely useful limit for travel cards) by the end of the year. Then next year will be about seeing how much total exposure my income and profile will support from Amex's perspective (I'm guessing about 25-30K across all 3 cards, we'll see).

  • Re: AMEX Cli denied**

    Hello Everyone,  I recently request an credit increase on my Amex delta Gold upon ACTIVATION .I've got a  7-10 days message. And I talked someone from Amex via chat.he said my relationship with Amex is very new. But he suggested me to call CLI department to see if they can help me. My reason is I need to buy a plane ticket thru Delta Air and I wanna use my Amex, since my limit is only 1.5k  I am requesting 4.2k. my question is:a.)   should I call that CLI department or I'ts a denied even I call.b.)   when can I request another CLI is it 61 days 90 days or 180 days?c.)   will my CLI request affect my  account since it was very new? Please help me any suggestion, I am very new to rebuilding and I need an expert advice. Thanks Everyone!!  

    Jtheoaks212 wrote:
    Hello Everyone,  I recently request an credit increase on my Amex delta Gold upon ACTIVATION .I've got a  7-10 days message. And I talked someone from Amex via chat.he said my relationship with Amex is very new. But he suggested me to call CLI department to see if they can help me. My reason is I need to buy a plane ticket thru Delta Air and I wanna use my Amex, since my limit is only 1.5k  I am requesting 4.2k. my question is:a.)   should I call that CLI department or I'ts a denied even I call.b.)   when can I request another CLI is it 61 days 90 days or 180 days?c.)   will my CLI request affect my  account since it was very new? Please help me any suggestion, I am very new to rebuilding and I need an expert advice. Thanks Everyone!!  You can call but Amex likes to see some sort of history ....61 day 6 months etc etc IMHO I would wait until my 61 day and go for it unless you need to book this ticket ASAP

  • Delta Skymiles AMEX Gold Approved with Bankruptcy!!

    Just got an instant approval online!!  Credit line is $2,000.  I have applied about 4 times for this card over the past few years, declined each time.  They checked Experian my Fico score is 664 and I have 30+ inquires (i'm a credit junkie too...I have no comprehension of "gardening" LOL) mostly on TU, not sure exactly how many I have with Experian. At any rate my bankruptcy is still on my credit reports until November 2015 so there was definitely some divine intervention at work.    On a side note, I got declined last week for the State Farm Visa and the Alaska Airlines Visa.  Applied for the new Orbitz Visa right before I applied for this one and got the 7-10 day message.  Really wanted another travel card (had the American Airlines credit card a few years ago but got behind on the payments so ended up closing and settling the account for less than what was owed on it) so I'm good now.  

    tommywerdine wrote:
    aqualuv74 wrote:
    Just got an instant approval online!!  Credit line is $2,000.  I have applied about 4 times for this card over the past few years, declined each time.  They checked Experian my Fico score is 664 and I have 30+ inquires (i'm a credit junkie too...I have no comprehension of "gardening" LOL) mostly on TU, not sure exactly how many I have with Experian. At any rate my bankruptcy is still on my credit reports until November 2015 so there was definitely some divine intervention at work.    On a side note, I got declined last week for the State Farm Visa and the Alaska Airlines Visa.  Applied for the new Orbitz Visa right before I applied for this one and got the 7-10 day message.  Really wanted another travel card (had the American Airlines credit card a few years ago but got behind on the payments so ended up closing and settling the account for less than what was owed on it) so I'm good now.  Congrats on your AMEX approval!!!! Thank you!!  

  • Message details not getting displayed in Message monitoring of RWB

    Hi,
    I am trying to see how many messages in Message Monitoring by selecting Integration Engine option, Message counts are getting displayed like how many has been processed successfully,processed with errors as well.
    When I click on message count a pop up screen opens and gives me no messages are not available even for the same day messages.
    Can any body give me an idea like where i can set any parameter to display in detail of messages in integration engine for one week back as well.
    Thanks...

    >When i click on count of messages which got processed with in one hour then it shows details of that messages, but when i select other messages which got processed on the same day but more than one hour then its not displaying any details of the messages.
    I guess in this case your retention period is set to zero in SXMB_ADM. And this is the reason you cannot see the message even if they are an hour old.
    >Is there any where where we can set parameters or any oss note to be implemented in order to see details of any messages with in a week or 10 days.
    In XI run tcode SXMB_ADM and then follow "Integration Engine Configuration ---> Specific Configuration". Now check the Archive & Deletion Current & Default Values and set the Retention period as per you need.
    For more information see page 11 of this document.
    http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/library/uuid/402fae48-0601-0010-3088-85c46a236f50?quicklink=index&overridelayout=true

  • Why is Messages so incredibly awful?

    But seriously. Allow me to elaborate:
    Messages cannot order messages according to timestamp to save its life. I ONLY use my phone number to send and receive messages on BOTH my iPhone and on my desktop. I don't use an email address or anything else. I have deactived/reactivated iMessage on my iPhone as well as deactiveated/reactivated my Messages account on my computer in hopes of resolving the issue. It was not resolved.
    Usually, if my computer and iPhone are both powered on and connected to the internet, my iMessages sync up beautifully. If I send a message on my iPhone, it shows it as my last message sent on my desktop (and vice versa). The same is true if I receive a message on my iPhone.
    However, when my computer is offline, all **** breaks loose. For example, I will use my iPhone throughout the day to send/receive iMessages while my computer is shut OFF. At the end of the day, I will turn on my computer and open the Messages app. The app will place some messages (that I sent/received earlier that day) in the middle of conversations that occurred last week (why?!). Sometimes I cannot even find my messages in the application, but this could really just be because it placed them in some obscure location within a previous conversation. The strangest part about these out-of-order messages is that they are TIMESTAMPED all correctly, so I cannot figure out why the app is just placing them in a random order. If I send or receive a photo during the day, Messages almost ALWAYS puts the photo as the most recent message in the coversation (even if it wasn't). Oh, and Messages frequently says I have unread messages, but here's the catch: I don't. Sometimes it will even be bold enough to say that I have "–1" messages. That's probably the most amusing flaw.
    This is the most flawed piece of Apple software I have ever witnessed. It renders the app completely useless at looking at past conversations because they are so awfully out of order. Further, this problem has been around since Mountain Lion was released. Is Apple just going to sit by and let this bug continue?
    Any advice is appreciated.

    tchec8 wrote:
    But seriously. Allow me to elaborate:
    Messages cannot order messages according to timestamp to save its life. I ONLY use my phone number to send and receive messages on BOTH my iPhone and on my desktop. I don't use an email address or anything else. I have deactived/reactivated iMessage on my iPhone as well as deactiveated/reactivated my Messages account on my computer in hopes of resolving the issue. It was not resolved.
    Usually, if my computer and iPhone are both powered on and connected to the internet, my iMessages sync up beautifully. If I send a message on my iPhone, it shows it as my last message sent on my desktop (and vice versa). The same is true if I receive a message on my iPhone.
    However, when my computer is offline, all **** breaks loose. For example, I will use my iPhone throughout the day to send/receive iMessages while my computer is shut OFF. At the end of the day, I will turn on my computer and open the Messages app. The app will place some messages (that I sent/received earlier that day) in the middle of conversations that occurred last week (why?!). Sometimes I cannot even find my messages in the application, but this could really just be because it placed them in some obscure location within a previous conversation. The strangest part about these out-of-order messages is that they are TIMESTAMPED all correctly, so I cannot figure out why the app is just placing them in a random order. If I send or receive a photo during the day, Messages almost ALWAYS puts the photo as the most recent message in the coversation (even if it wasn't). Oh, and Messages frequently says I have unread messages, but here's the catch: I don't. Sometimes it will even be bold enough to say that I have "–1" messages. That's probably the most amusing flaw.
    This is the most flawed piece of Apple software I have ever witnessed. It renders the app completely useless at looking at past conversations because they are so awfully out of order. Further, this problem has been around since Mountain Lion was released. Is Apple just going to sit by and let this bug continue?
    Any advice is appreciated.
    It appears to be a known bug and perhaps the next update (10.8.4) which is currently being beta tested by developers, may fix the proble. We can't tell you, as we simply don't know. Although at the same time, I am not having many issues with Messages, but I may not use it as heavily as you.
    Cheers
    Pete

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