Capturing HDV Into ProRes 422 (LT) Via FireWire

I read this fine tutorial on Moviola on the technique of Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire.
http://moviola.com/hdv_prores
Since you can choose ProRes 422 (LT) as an option in the Log and Transfer window, I was wondering if there is a way to capture HDV to ProRes 422 (LT) via firewire like in the above mentioned article.
I tried creating a custom capture setting in the AV Settings, but ProRes 422 (LT) was not available as an option, only ProRes 422 and ProRes 422 (HQ). And those settings cannot be edited or duplicated (grayed out).
I don’t know why ProRes 422 (LT) is available in the Log and Transfer window but not in the AV Settings window. Maybe it will become available in an update.
In the meantime, does anyone know a way to get around this? Maybe modifying an FCP file somewhere?
Thanks,
======
Richard

HDV is recorded to tape inside of the camera as digital information. Component coming out of the camera is analog. The camera is performing the first conversion D/A, from HDV (digital) to component out (analog).
Component going into the ioHD is analog. The ioHD then converts via its hardware to Prores (any flavor), which is digital. The ioHD has to convert the analog from the component outs of my camera to digital for use in FCP. FCP only uses digital video.
You said "The IOHD internally converts to ProRes.." converts to ProRes is the second A/D conversion.
So the path is D/A/D. I count that as two conversions, camera D/A as one the ioHD A/D as two.
I don't want to unnecessarily convert from digital to analog to digital which is why I don't use the ioHD to convert from HDV to Prores (any flavor).
Unfortunately I don't have any digital outs for this camera, neither HDMI or HD SDI.
I believe capturing and converting HDV to ProRes via firewire in FCP doesn't have this D/A/D conversion which is why I'd like to be able to capture HDV to ProRes LT via firewire in FCP and stay digital all the way, with no analog conversions.
I use the ioHD for all of my analog to digital conversions. It's a great box from a great company.
Thanks,
=====
Richard

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Capturing in the HDV-Apple ProRes 422 Preset

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Has anyone else run into this problem, and if so, have any solutions to fixing it? This is the first time I have used this capture preset, so there may be a step or setting I am accidently skipping.
Thanks in advance.

If you are capturing HDV as ProRes, this is normal. This is the only case that this happens like this. Only with a capture card can you get the normal Log and Capture window. Converting one format to another via firewire...typically requires a card. This is a special case.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/poisson_chris/hdv-prores.php
Shane

HDV to ProRes 422?

I've got a 90 minute movie to cut. 2/3'rds of the original material was shot with a Sony HDV camera 60i. The other third is XDCam (HQ), also 60i.
I'm trying to figure out a protocol.
The film is aimed at some kind of theatrical distribution, festivals for sure, possibly a network airing. (It's an engaging subject, and very nicely shot, despite the older format).
Anybody done this? And might you have some recommendations?
Do I 'optimize' on my import? I notice FCPX optimizes the HDV to ProRes 422 (not HQ), but at 60i. Is there a way to set a different optimization?
Should I bother with a proxy when the original was only HDV (now being optimized to ProRes on import)? The system I have at hand here seems to be fairly robust.
Or. Should I edit the HDV original? And then just output in whatever codec seems appropriate (when I've done some more research)?
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Ben

Thank you guys, very helpful.
And Tom, this is all footage that was captured in FCP7, mostly a long while back, except for the XDCam. So the HDV was captured from the Sony camera, and the XDCam was the EX3, so straight from the cards (using FCP's capture transfer setup).
Now I'm playing at switching the whole project over to FCPX. Mainly because FCPX looks so intriguing. And. I had to do an emergency colour grading of an IMAX movie last week, for a test screenig ... working on their HD proxy cut. I was going to do it in Colour, but I haven't used Colour in six months, and it's a daunting creature to get back into after long breaks. I've been toying with FCPX for a couple of weeks, just a few minutes here and there, and tried the colour grading setup. Wow. In ten minutes I was up to speed. We did an XML of their film (being cut in FCP7). An hour later it was in FCPX. And a few hours later I had a really really nice grade. It blew me away. Yesterday we did the 'real' grade in a relatively high-end studio. Very good people. Brand new hardware - with lots of nifty buttons and tools. But I swear the end result doesn't look any different than what we got from FCPX. In fact. I'm toying with the idea of actually pulling the 4K into FCPX, and outputting it with MY original grade - just to make a comparison. Now wouldn't that be intriguing. And horrible, ultimately, for studios with such a huge capital outlay. Then again. It ain't the equipment. The colourist was a total pleasure to work with, knew his stuff.
Thank you very much for your help guys.
Actually, there is still a question in my head. I'm used to working in 24p. This film is for theatres, festivals, even a network airing perhaps. Is a 30 fps master going to work in those venues? I seem to remember that the new digital projectors don't care what the frame rate is. Have I got that wrong? And does it matter whether my master is interlaced or progressive? I hate the interlaced look - but I'm not sure what this footage is going to look like de-interlaced.
And. I'm going to do a lot of colour correcting on this show, and some modes special effects (possibly do those in Motion), but in a 'realist' sort of way; no green screen. Just trying to make the whole look more cinematic. But I'm not attached to the 24 fps thing. Though 30 fps this stuff was SHOT like a film, it already looks cinematic. But I'd love to somehow ameliorate the inevitable 'video' look of the medium.

Basic 24" iMac 2.8GHz (Penryn) Captures HDV As ProRes In Real Time.

It's OK I'm not claiming any records.
It's just that I have been reading a lot about capturing ProRes from HDV and there are lots of warnings that capture will lag behind real time even with PowerMacs etc.
I was therefore pleasantly surprised to find that my unmodified iMac captured everything in Real Time even though I had 5 other apps open at the same time.
People often ask whether an iMac is suitable for FCP. This in no way is a definitive answer but it does suggest the iMac is certainly no slouch!

Ian R. Brown wrote:
People often ask whether an iMac is suitable for FCP. This in no way is a definitive answer but it does suggest the iMac is certainly no slouch!
Fantastic, Ian!!
Love the photos and I'll wager that pig was awesome. I'm a lifelong carnivore/omnivore and can't imagine a day without bacon.
Yeah, the iMac. No one here has ever doubted it's processing capabilities at all. Where the iMac lacks is with it's abject lack of expansion beyond it's firewire ports and if one goes into that limitation eyes wide open, then there is no reason at all one can't be productive with an iMac.
For whatever it's worth, I'm too timid to capture video with any other application save FCP working.
Zeb

Black frames in QT after converting from HDV to ProRes 422

I've been making a movie, shot in HDV 25p. In the timeline, everything plays fine, but when converted to ProRes422 via 'export to Quicktime Movie', I get black (dropped?) frames every now and then, on an irregular basis. Can be every 40 frames or every 90, but they're all over the movie. Worse still: the last 10 seconds of the movie are 'lost' in the QT-version, it comes to a freeze frame while the sound runs on.
When I make the QT movie with a different setting (HDV-25p instead of ProRes422), the end is allright, but I still keep getting the black frames. Of course these black frames are visible in the movie, it looks like the movement stutters.
Also tried QT with AIC codec, but to no avail.
I never experienced this before, although I used this workflow several times.
I need to make a Bluray disk via Toast. Any suggestions of how to get rid of the black frames?

Concertpix wrote:
...Now render before exporting to QT, I suppose?
You don't really have to. Exporting is kinda the same as rendering. Only thing is that if you do not render before export, FCP does not 'remember' this rendering.
If you think you'll needs parts of the render files later, you might render first.
Others in this forum do deliberately throw away the renders before they export, in order to avoid artifacts. Personally I prefer to see rendered footage before I export. I can see what I am sending to the export-application then. Haven't have any trouble so far.
So. It's up to you.
Rienk

HDV Sequence vs. Apple ProRes 422 Sequence

Is there a disadvantage to capturing and editing HDV, then creating a ProRes 422 output instead of capturing and editing ProRes 422 from the start? Will there be loss incurred or some other undesirable effect in the workflow in the former over the latter?
Thanks
Larry

Hi Ian
With FCP Apple introduced a new capability for native HDV and XDCAM HD timeline editing, that being the ability to specify the render codec as ProRes ... which means that renders do not need to be "conformed" to the native GOP structure (so much much faster) and better still, they get the expanded chroma resolution offered by ProRes (ie 10 bit 422 over HDV's 8 bit 420). With this ability the average user can enjoy all the benefits of a high quality intraframe codec for effects/renders and at the same time all the benefits of low bit rate iterframe codec for mass storage. Best of both worlds.
You set the render codec in the Sequence Settings >> Render Control tab
You'll love it.
Best
Andy

No dialogue box when importing hdv into fcp, normal?

I'm using a Canon Vixia HV40. When I import into FCP no dialogue box appears, just a small box that lets me name the file and import. I am choosing log and capture.
It will then import but without showing any progress and I have to press the quit button first to view the clips.Is this normal for HDV importing? I'm new to HD.

Can I use a capture card with an iMac?
No...sorry.
Do you happen to know what setting to use when I capture from native 24p. Which Pro Res setting do I use?
I don't. The one time I did capture ProRes in the manner you are, the tape was 1080i60, so it was pretty standard. Now..."native" 24p...you can't get that on tape. Impossible. NATIVE means that it was recorded at 24fps (running at 23.98). Tapes don't do that. They run at 30fps (29.97). So how the HV40 does it records 24fps onto a 30fps tape, and you need to remove that pulldown when you capture.
HOW? No clue. I don't work with that format. Even if you captured at 29.97, you cannot remove pulldown after the fact with HDV...the GOP format prevents it. You first need to capture as ProRes, THEN remove it...or....
I see an HDV 1080p24 Firewire Basic option, and an HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24 option. What do those get you? Oh, what version of FCP?
Shane

ProRes 422 settings

I have 2 Sony HDV cameras, HDR-FX1 and HDR-FX7, all my footage was shot in the HDV format. I want to use ProRes 422 (HQ) for my capture and sequence presets. The question I have is which is the proper sequence setting? 1920 x 1080 60i 48 kHz OR 1440 x 1080 60i 48 kHz?? I want the best quality and am going to produce standard def DVD's for this project.

Welcome to the forums.
There really is no need to capture as ProRes from the start. All that does is take up space. You would be better suited to edit HDV natively, then render out as ProRes when you are done...color correct and add filters and render out 10-bit. This way you keep your data rates low and take up much less space. Just use this handy feature found in the Sequence Settings:
Or, if you want to work with ProRes, then you can do that. Just giving options. The best way to capture HDV as ProRes is with a capture card like a Kona LH, or Decklink Extreme. But, you can still capture via firewire...in a rather neat way:
HDV as ProRes via Firewire
Shane

Unable to capture HDV with Sony HDR-FX1 in FCE 4

Hello all,
Been using an HDR-FX1 for a while, shooting mostly DV, and today I began experimenting with HDV. I shot 8 minutes of footage with the camera in HDV mode.
When I setup FCE 4 for Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60, the capture window doesn't recognize the camera. However, if I set the FX1 to down convert to DV via firewire, FCE recognizes the camera and I'm able to capture.
How do I (or can I) capture HDV into FCE 4 with the FX1? Is there something (a setting perhaps) that I'm missing? Do I need to jump to FC Pro for this?
My system: 1.6 GHz PowerPC G5 (tower), 2 GB RAM, Sony FX1, FCE 4.0, QT 7.3.1
Thanks in advance,
tg

I had a similar issue with iMovie08 import using HDR-HC1... You may want to try this to see if it helps:
1> Close the import app (FCE, in your case)
2> Unplug the FW cable from the camcorder (Most important step)
3> Go into the Sony menu and re-select the HDV settings (explicit HDV, not Auto + Conv off) in the camcorder
4> Re-connect the FW cable, and restart FCE
I use these steps successfully while switching between HDV and DV imports from my camcorder using iMovie 08. Hopefully, this resolves your problem with FCE. Later this weekend, I plan to experiment (for the first time) with FCE HDV import to try and see the export quality difference between FCE and iM08 (which apparently downconverts everything to 540 lines!).

Can't make a workable custom codec with ProRes 422 (HQ)

I've only just now found that there is a Support Community for Compressor. Wish I'd known sooner.
I see my version of Compressor is 3.5.3.
I've been on a little saga.
I started out with the challenge of converting some MP4 files from a Blackberry Playbook into ProRes 422 (HQ) for editing in Final Cut. I used Compressor and the task looked fairly straight forward. I used the ProRes setting in the Compressor, converted my files and imported them into Final Cut. Video was fine but I soon found out that the audio needed rendering every time I put a clip into the Timeline. I went on-line to various chat rooms with this problem. Pretty soon a fellow was telling me that the ProRes 422 (HQ) setting in Compressor had "Audio Pass-through" as default and that this was the cause of my problem. Change it, he said, to "Linear PCM".
It took me a fair while to figure out that the ProRes setting in Compressor did not allow itself to be modified and that I'd have to create a custom preset if I was to make these changes. I set about to do that. I was able to select "QuickTime Movie" and then in "Video/Settings" choose "ProRes 422 (HQ)", in "Audio", "Linear PCM". This did solve the audio problem. Now files imported into Final Cut did not need rendering. But another problem became evident.
Whereas the ProRes 422 setting that came with Compressor in its summary page listed: "Width" and "Height" as "(100% of source)", the custom ProRes 422 (HQ) setting I'd just created has "Width" and "Height" as "320" and "240". In short the 19:9 aspect ratio of the original footage was lost. What I got both in the conversion and in Final Cut was a squished SD image.
I've played like heck with Compressor trying to see if there was some place I could get this custom version of ProRes to correspond to the aspect ratio seen in the Audio Pass-through version that came loaded in Compressor. No luck. All very mysterious.
My next step was to look to create another custom codec that would have the proper 1280 X 720 ratio. Turns out "HDV 720p 30fps" does, so now I've been converting to that. Looks fine in Final Cut - proper picture and sound.
I've been playing around a bit more and see now that I can create a custom setting using "Apple Intermediate Codec". I've tried it and it works too.
So after all this, my question: Should I be using that codec instead? Or does it really matter what codec I use for editing? Is the only real issue what codec I decide to use to output?
And while I'm at it: Does anybody have ideas why trying to create a custom setting with ProRes 422 (HQ) does not work - for my purposes at least.
I must admit this converting codecs is pretty new to me. Hopefully with time this experience will get easier and clearer.
John

Setting a Compressor ProRes Custom Setting:
1) Pick Apple ProRes 422...
2) Drag the PreRes 422 setting to the Bach Window. You can only make a custom setting from the Batch Window...
3) Select enable for the audio. Click on setting to make sure it is set right. Uncheck Allow Job Segmenting... Make sure Streaming is set to none*....
4) Select the Geomenty tab... Pick Custom (16:9):
5) Click Save As and name your custom setting...
6) You new custom setting will show up in the Custum folder for later use:
Another thing you can do is make Droplet of this custom setting. Menu... File... Create Droplet... Save the Droplet into a folder somewhere on your computer.
A Droplet will start the transcoding automatically. Drag the Droplet onto a video icon and let it do it's job.
* ProRes doesn't need the Fast Start setting. If this is set it will take almost twice as long to do the encoding. Same with Allow Job Segmenting using Qmaster.
I did the above on the fly and hope everything is clear for you to understand.

Re-encode HDV into Pro res - create HD masters?

A while back i had a big project with averaging 12x 1 hour hdv videos - when exporting as hdv (current seq settings) it went out of sync after 30+mins
setting seq as pro res had no effect, so, i just re-rendered the seq asa dv pal and exported (was intended for sd dvd anyway).
Now what i want to do, is have self contained hd masters of the videos.
Will running all videos in the capture folder for this project in compressor - exporting as 'apple pro res lt' then 'reconnecting media' - render - export self contained.mov work?

Pre-Roll and whatnot. Capturing HDV as ProRes will get you the FULL shot. FCP just detects the break, and makes a new clip. HDV as HDV, there's a second or two missing from the head of a shot. At least in my experience of two years ago. Has that changed? Can you capture now, with the break, and have it keep the full clip?
Shane

STP won't recognize audio via firewire from camera

Dear all,
I am trying to record narration using a microphone attached to my Canon XL1S and import the audio live into Sound Track Pro via firewire. This method works fine for Quicktime. Quicktime recognizes the XL1S and records the narration as I am speaking, but STP does not seem to recognize the firewire input and I get no meter levels or any indication that my audio is registering. Any suggestions? I have tried all the preferences and settings I can find. Do I need another interface for STP? Seems strange that I would if Quicktime recognizes it.
Thanks much.
Barb.

It cannot be done. STP (and other DAWs) doesn't natively support Firewire devices in that manner.
Instead, try the Quicktime or FCP approach, or even record it to tape, then import it. The better way would be to get a dedicated soundcard and mixer for that. Believe me, you'll appreciate that!
tim

Prorez 422 vs DVCPro HD for capture

I am producing a television show and need to decide on a capture codec. Does it make a difference in capturing between Prorez 422 or DVCPro HD? I will be doing a lot of keying and intense colors as the show is for children. Also some CGI for backgrounds. I know you can convert the codec but is there an advantage in capturing in one or the other. I am shooting with Panasonic HVX200 output from the uncompressed HD component out.
Thanks,
David Perry

I like ProRes. It is nice, but you may find certain 10bit rendering errors with FCP that don't show up in 8bit CODECs. Alpha channels from still graphics seem to be the worse problems. Also some of the transparency modes don't really work right in 10bit. This isn't really the fault of the ProRes CODEC, but appears to be a problem with FCP 6 and all 10 color spaces.
If you don't plan many transparent graphics, ProRES is awesome and I would recommend you use if if you have an uncompressed feed coming from the camera.
I would only recommend ProRes if you have AJA Kona hardware. Only the top Kona cards seem to support it fully. My LHe card supports it but most io devices don't.
The color space of the ProRes is very very nice. I've pushed a scene from a Varicam (captured via SDI into the Kona) by about 3 stops recently and was able to recover it without anybody knowing. It was slightly more grainy, but still very usable. DVCPro would not have taken this kind of abuse.

Capturing HDV through Firewire

It seems in my Audio/Video settings that I have 2 Capture Preset options. The first is simply 'HDV' and the second is 'HDV Apple Intermediate Codec'.
If you're capturing HDV please share which you prefer. I'm trying to capture 1080i HDV footage.
I searched on the subject here and it didn't give me great results. I also searched the manual .PDF file which only turned out 1 result, explaining no details about it's features.
Thanks
Monty

HDV is for capturing the footage (via firewire) to its native HDV codec.
HDV Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC) is for capturing the HDV footage (via firewire) to the Apple Intermediate Codec.
with FCP6.0.2 you can also capture HDV footage (via firewire) to Apple's ProRes codec.
HDV is a heavily compressed MPEG format which means the the data rate is quite low ... the same as DV in fact. Low data rates mean your disc can store more of the footage and it can handle more concurrent streams of that footage, however the down side is that the algorithm for this compression format is complex and consequently very taxing for the computer to manipulate when editing. Not every frame of video is encoded in its entirity, only I-frames, all other frames are stored as predictive data describing how these subsequent frames change as compared to previous of forthcoming I-frames. Its a processor intesive operation editing with this format and that impacts you most when rendering effects and treatments etc as those renders will take longer to process. All that said and done, you shouldn't be unecessarily alarmed, this is all pretty run of the mill for todays computers.
AIC is an "intermediate" codec meaning it is not intended as an acquisition format nor a delivery format, but just as an interim working format ... selecting this means your incoming HDV footage will be transcoded to this intermidate codec as it is captured. AIC is a codec which stores all the data for each frame individually, thereby bypassing those processor heavy calculation caused by the HDV codec, as a consequence there is much more data to be handled so the file sizes are necessarily bigger and your hard disc will need to be able to keep up with the extra data rate needed, especially for multiple concurrent streams.
ProRes, as with AIC, is an intermediate codec. It is considered to offer higher quality than AIC.
It worth noting that when outputting back to HDV tape via firewire, regardless of your edit codec, there is a long render process known as "conforming" which you need to perform first. The conform process re-encodes your edit master to a single media file which conforms to the HDV data stream format.

FCS2 - JVC GY-HD101 UNABLE TO CAPTURE VIA FIREWIRE

hi everyone,
I have to capture some rushs shot in HDV with this camera model (very old one) via firewire.
No matter what, final cut doesn't recognize the camcorder.
I think I did all you have to do when you meet those kind of issues.
(went to easy setup 720p25, threw preferences away, check FW cable and so on...)
Can someone help me on this one please ?
I have to return the camcorder tomorrow and got to capture 5 hours before it.
Thanks a lot.
Message was edited by: chle

Ok here's the test I made :
With a "classic DV" camcorder everything goes right in the system profiler , it recognizes the model. (rear and front ports)
With the JVC HDV camcorder system profiler says "unable to list the firewire device"
So I figure it's either the FW port on the JVC camcoder that is burnt, or maybe a firmware issue since it'a very old model.
Or simply this camcorder is not recognized by leopard.
Message was edited by: chle
Message was edited by: chle

Capturing HDV Into ProRes 422 (LT) Via FireWire

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