Extending a network between houses?

Hi guys!
Im a little new to wireless networking etc and a bit of a novice, but i have been reading up on it to try and learn.
My setup: My moms house and my house are on a property together, seperated by a small field and i would like to extend her wi-fi signal to my house so I can use it on as many devices as possible (PS3, Mac, iphone, ipad x2 & Apple TV etc.).
Our homes are about 230 feet apart with a thin wall in her home, and a thin wall in mine. Other than that there is a few small trees to block the signal.
I own an Apple Time Capsule that is two years old, and at the moment I just use it to backup my Mac Pro. My mom has a telstra router, and i know how to connect the two.
My question is, how can I (or can I at all) extend her existing wireless network to reach my house, and still have a relatively strong signal? (Enough to be able to do more than just browse the internet - download files, ps3 online etc)
Is there an option to connect an Express or the like in my house, and the Time Capsule and Express can pick up on each others wi-fi?
Is there a way I can connect more than one device to the extended wireless (if i manage to get it far enough)?
Using ethernet or powerline kits are not an option, as the space between our houses has cars and the like moving through it on a daily basis, and our houses are on differnet power meters.
I realise I will have to buy a bit of hardware for this to work. I have read that antenna extenders can be a successful option, would this work in my situation?
I appreciate any answers given
Thanks heaps!

You are better using proper wireless bridges designed for outdoor work. It is harder than you think to get signal across such a large distance.. trees etc do matter, as do walls. You best bet is windows that face each other. So you have direct line of sight from one to the other.. if not then you will likely need to mount the AP's exterior under eaves or other suitable areas. Thin outside walls often have metal insulation in modern buildings and you won't get rf through it.
The type of equipment you need.
http://www.tp-link.com/lk/products/details/?model=TL-WA5210G
You need a pair of them.. to create the bridge.
To do it with cheaper equipment is possible but I think you will find the speed or the stability much poorer.

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I have an Airport Extreme as my router and am using time capsule to extend the network in my new house. My ISP is only providing me 4-5 ip addresses and wants me to set up my router to issue out new ip addresses for all my devices.How do I fix this?Help

I have an Airport Extreme as my router and am using time capsule to extend the network in my new house. My ISP is only providing me 4-5 ip addresses and wants me to set up my router to issue out new ip addresses for all my devices.How do I fix this?Help.
They said I need to change my settings to NAT settings. I haven't been able to figure out or find anything. I have also spoken to Apple Support on the phone for hours without being able to figure out how to do this ( i don't think he knew much either lol.) Please help me because I've got about 15-20 devices in my house that require to be connected to the internet and this is just making things ridiculously slow and painful for me.
Thanks!

It is on DHCP & NAT under router mode yet my isp is still the one issuing ip addresses to my devices instead of the router issuing them

Best Way to Have 'Extended' WiFi Network Through Long House

HI, I'm helping a friend setup his wireless network at his house. The house is rather long & narrow.
We setup a new Time Capsule at the far end of the house in the office. It functions as the base station, and needs to connect to the cable modem, 1 non-wireless computer, and a USB printer back there.
Then we setup a new Airport Express (n) in the middle living room of the house. This was mostly to get extended range, but also to plug audio into home theater for AirTunes.
The TC is set to a/b/g/n (for an older MacBook and two iPhones) 2.4ghz on a free channel. When connecting to it we get great speeds, but it does not have the signal to carry to the far side of the house. I even tried it initially as 802.11n ONLY at both 2.4Ghz & 5Ghz with a new MacBook, but it still didn't seem to get a whole lot more coverage (not enough, at least).
I tried setting the AE to either 'Extend My Network' or to 'Participate in a WDS'. In both instances, we get more signal at the far end of the house (not as much as I would have thought), but the speed is HORRIBLY slow! It is far less than half the speed. As soon as we move back in range of the TC, the speed is generally really good again (checking connection by MAC address).
• So is there ANY way we can get coverage over the whole house for both 802.11n and 802.11g devices, and still have decent throughput??
Thanks! Unfortunately they don't have ethernet running through the walls, otherwise I'd try that. And I'm terrified to think what the backup times might be like when we start trying Time Machine!

Hmm, we could try seeing if having both in the center would provide enough reach. Not sure if it would. The problem would be wireless access for the computer in the back office (old iMac, no WiFi), and printing to the printer back there.
• In this scenario, would adding a second Airport Express in the back room just for the computer and printer slow the network from the base station(s)?
• What about putting just TC in center living room on a/b/g/n, and AE in back office for computer & printer? Pros/Cons? We'd just have to figure out a way to get the Airtunes in the living room (I'm pushing him for Apple TV).
The reason for TC for Time Machine backups is very simple. I know this couple would not remember to regularly attach a hard drive to do Time Machine backups. It needs to be as 'automatic and painless' as the TC was 'intended' to make it, otherwise I know it just won't happen.
Thanks again!

Can I extend my network by connecting one of my airport express devices to my airport extreme via an ethernet cable? I have CAT5 cable throughout my house but have a wireless network w/ 3 airport expresses

Can I extend my wireless network by connecting one of my airport express devices to my airport extreme via an ethernet cable? I have a wireless network with 3 airport expresses and 1 airport extreme functioning as the base station. I have CAT5 throughout my house.

Welcome to the discussions, mib88!
Can I extend the network a second time with another Airport Express...
The short answer would be no. If you want more details, please continue to the next paragraph.
Apple's "extend a wireless network" works just like the hub and spokes of a wheel. Your main hub is either the Time Capsule or the AirPort Extreme and the AirPort Express is at the end of a spoke. You can add more devices at the ends of other spokes, but these devices will communicate directly to the hub, not to another device at the end of a spoke.
Apple does offer an option which is is known as a "static WDS", which can consist of a "main", "relay" and "remote" device. The problem here is that this type of setup has two huge drawbacks:
1) All of your faster "n" devices will drop down to much slower "g" speeds
2) The bandwidth or speed capability on the network will drop down to only 25% of the original bandwidth with a "main", "relay" and "remote" on the network.
Don't think you want this on your network. Your best option is to connect the new AirPort Express to the "hub" using an ethernet connection. If you can't run the ethernet cable, take a look at a pair of ethernet powerline adapters to accomplish the same task by sending the ethernet signal over the AC powerline in your home.

Extend existing wireless network (long house) with Airport Express

Help !! I am trying to reconfigure my airport express to extend my wireless network (Long House)through my wireless ISP (Bigpond)modem (2701HGV-W Gateway) following the sudden and unexpected death of my Time Capsule, whose router was doing this job previously.
I am not technically savvy, but can follow simple, idiot proof instructions. All I seem to be able to do is join a wireless network....is this the same as extending it?

Bob Timmons wrote:
Hi Jolly Giant,
+what you could do is run a (long) Cat5 ethernet cable from the Gateway to your Airport Express (AE) in the far away location. if you then join the AE to your wireless network, wireless clients could access it via the wireless access point the AE provides.+
Sorry, but this is not correct. The "join" setting is only used if the Express will be connecting to the wireless network by +wireless only+.
With the Express connected by ethernet, the correct setting is "create a wireless network". The wireless must be configured with exactly the same name, radio mode, security, password, etc as the Gateway's network. But, the channel on the AirPort Express should be set to a value that is at least 5 settings away from the channel that the Gateway is using to minimize distortion. This type of network is known as a "roaming" network.
Connection Sharing on the Express must be set to "Off (Bridge Mode)".
okay, got it. thanks for letting me know - i'll keep that in mind ! (:-)
my apologies to the OP for having been confusing

Help me clarify: Difference between Joining and Extending Wireless Network

I've eventually figured out how to get my AirPort Express to allow my Mac Pro access to the internet Via Ethernet cable by joining an existing wireless network. What's the difference between that and extending it? By extending it I loose my ability to use the ethernet to connect to internet on my Mac Pro. Odd thing is though when I initially used AirPort Utility to set up my AirPort Express, I went through all the options to get it configured to access my existing network and I checked option to allow internet access through ethernet. All is well, but then I still don't have access to the internet through the ethernet and I noticed that the setting is on Extended. Just curious why it would give me the option to use the ethernet, set it on extended and not even work.

I've eventually figured out how to get my AirPort Express to allow my Mac Pro access to the internet Via Ethernet cable by joining an existing wireless network. What's the difference between that and extending it?
When "joining a network," the AirPort Express Base Station (AX) acts just like any other wireless client (laptop, desktop, printer, etc.) You would want to configure the AX to join a network when you only want to use it to share a USB printer and/or stream iTunes.
When "extending a network," the AX can perform as either a main, relay, or remote base station in a Wireless Distribution System (WDS). A WDS is primarily used to extend a network wirelessly.
By extending it I loose my ability to use the ethernet to connect to internet on my Mac Pro.
If the AX is configured as either a relay/remote base station in a WDS, you actually can use it's Ethernet port for Internet access. Of course, this relay/remote must be connected to a main base station, that itself, has Internet access.

Airport Extreme no longer extending my network

I have 3 Airport Extremes and one Airport Express set up in my house (all 5th generation). One is hooked up directly to the modem and I use it to create a network, the other three I use to extend the network. The Airport Extreme closest to the main one works fine. The other two, as of a few weeks ago, have the blinking orange light and they both have the "Extended Network" error. The 3rd Airport Extreme is in the next room, it used to feed off of the main AExtreme without a problem. Sometimes it says "Connection: Good" sometimes "Excellent". I connected it next to the main AExtreme and it worked (green light), but once I took it back to its original place the orange light started blinking again. The 4th Airport (Express) feeds off of the 3rd one, so I understand why that one's not working. But I don't understand why the 3rd one stopped working all of a sudden. I've reset it to factory settings several times and nothing. I have made no changes in the configuration and there have been no infrastructure changes in the house (and no furniture has been moved). Is there any reason why the reach of an Airport would change all of a sudden? I really need help with this. I have no internet connection in two big areas of the house because of this one AExtreme.

Weirdly enough, I had a 1st generation Time Capsule lying around and connected it in the exact same place the AExtreme giving me problems is, and it works fine, but for some reason it's feeding off of the AExtreme that's right outside where the main one is and not directly from the main one. I've never had any problems with an Airport connecting to another one that is not the main one. I live in a two-story house, the Airport Express is the only one downstairs, it has always fed off of another Airport that is not the main one. Right now it's not being detected because there are closed window shutters that prevent it from getting the signal, but once I open them it's all good. When the AExpress downstairs is not working, there's no internet at all downstairs, but there is when I open the shutters and the AExtreme from which it feeds is also working.
Right this minute, after writing the first paragraph and taking a break, I restored the problematic AExtreme (Rosangela's AirPort Extreme) to factory settings and now it's working again all of a sudden. That one and the Time Capsule are literally right next to each other, yet one is feeding off of the main AExtreme and the other one is feeding off of the one right outside where the main one is.
I guess I'll have to restore the Express as well and put the previously-abandoned Time Capsule downstairs to cover more space.
John, how do I connect a base station in "roaming"? Everytime I restore a base station or add a new one it simply asks me if I want to extend my network or create a network. I ask it to extend my network, Airport Utility does its thing and it usually works. What's the difference between that and using "roaming" configuration?

Troubling extending wireless network with Time Capsule and Airport Extreme

I am trying to set up and extend a wireless network in my house, but it’s not working right. I have two Airport/Capsule units in the house:
2TB Time Capsule (Dual-Band II)
1 Airport Extreme (Dual Band)
I have the Verizon Fios router as my gateway to the internet, and also as my DHCP server. I have also tested the ethernet ports in my house to verify that they work, and that I can get a DHCP-issued IP address.
Now, my Verizon router has WiFI, and it’s still on. I am not using it though except to troubleshoot. So far as I understand, this should not cause a problem.
Base station setup
So I setup the TC to Create A New Wireless Network, on the ethernet network it’s on (Dlink switch plugged into Verizon router). I set it up in Bridge Mode (as opposed to having it dole out IPs, since the Verizon router does this already). The TC gets a valid IP, and my wireless device connect to it without a problem. I have checked “Allow this network to be expanded” under Wireless settings.
Extended station setup
The AE Dual-Band is plugged into the Ethernet, and is reset to Factory Settings. I name it “Airport Extreme 2” and I chose “I want Airport Extreme to join my current network.” The other two options are: “I want to create a new wireless network” and “I want to replace and existing base station or wireless router with Airport Extreme.”
I chose to “join,” I select “I want to connect Airport Extreme to my network using Ethernet to extend my existing wireless network.” The other options are to disable wireless entirely, or to “wirelessly join my current network.” On the next page it asks me to select the device or network that the Airport Extreme will connect to using the Ethernet. I set it to the Time Capsule.
Results:
Access near the Airport Extreme 2 is incredibly slow. Speedtest shows I am getting less than 1Mbps. Worse yet, my mail client won’t connect. It just times out.
What I had hoped was that the AE would connect via Ethernet to the network, and just bring the wireless network to the other side of the house. Instead it almost seems as though it is just re-amplifying the TC’s signal. Otherwise, why is performance so bad?
Thanks to anyone with some insight here!

Hello Kennuff. Welcome to the Apple Discussions!
Since you have the ability to connect all of the routers by Ethernet, there is no need to configure the Time Capsule (TC) & 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station (AEBSn) for a dynamic WDS (aka, extending a network). This option is only when the routers do NOT have an Ethernet connection between them.
Instead, you want to configure the TC & AEBSn in a "roaming" network. I suggest starting by performing either a "hard" or "factory default" reset on both.
Next be sure that both the TC & AEBSn are on the same Ethernet subnet coming from the Verizon-supplied router.
Configure the TC & AEBSn as follows:
AirPort Utility > Select the TC or AEBSn > Manual Setup > AirPort > Wireless
o Wireless Mode = Create a wireless network
o Allow this network to be extended: <not checked>
o Radio Mode: <leave the default or if you require a specific mode make sure both routers are configured the same>
o Wireless Security: <configure both routers the same>
AirPort Utility > Select the TC or AEBSn > Manual Setup > Internet > Internet Connection
o Connection Sharing = Off (Bridge Mode)

Issue w/ Airport Express extending a network (intermittently)

Hi -- I have an Airport Extreme and Airport Express currently configured to "extend" the network that my Extreme base station creates. But its not working right -- here's whats up.
Basically the Extreme is on the ground floor, and I got the Express so that we'd have good signal in our master bedroom, all the way at the other end of the house, upstairs. The Express _definitely_ has good signal from the Extreme. And the master bedroom where the weak signal was is about 30 feet from that airport express I put upstairs.
However, for whatever reason, most of the time in that master bedroom from any computer (macbook pro, imac, and our ipads, iphones) connnect to the extreme downstairs, not the express upstairs. This results in one or no signal bar, and crappy internet access. Hmm.
Green lights are on and steady on both the extreme and express.
I've rebooted the express, reset it, reconfigured it, and the ONLY time I can get it to work properly is right after a reset and reconfigure (choosing "extend a wireless network). Both have the most recent updates.
Any ideas? Is my airport express just not working right ? Any ideas ?

The key here is that if you locate your MBP at the location of the AirPort Express Base Station (AX), leaving the AX unpowered, if it can get a good signal from the AirPort Extreme Base Station (AEBS), then the AX would as well.
The AX can only extend the range of the AEBS effectively if it is within a 25+ dB SNR range of the AEBS. Anything beyond that, you may get a "strong" signal (indicated by full bars), but the actual bandwidth will be useless.
SNR = Signal-to-Noise Ratio = Signal (in dBm) - Noise (in dBm)
You can easily find the Signal and Noise value using System Profiler on your MBP.
ref: Click on the Apple icon on the menu bar > About This Mac > More Info... > Contents > Network > AirPort > Interfaces > en1 > Current Network Information > Find your wireless network > Signal / Noise
While your still in the System Profiler, note the value for Transmit Rate.
These values should be negative numbers. For example, mine currently read: -67 dBm / -95 dBm, with a transmit rate of 27 (Mbps). Plugging in these numbers yield: SNR = -67 - (-95) = 28. My Mac Mini is about four rooms away from my AEBS with about five walls between them. As you can see, the signal is still quite useable ... but the bandwidth is minimal, especially for streaming.
SNR Guideline
40dB+ SNR = Excellent signal
25dB to 40dB SNR = Very good signal
15dB to 25dB SNR = Low signal
10dB to 15dB SNR = Very low signal
5dB to 10dB SNR = No signal

Problem using Airport Express to extend wireless network.

I'm trying to extend my wireless network with an Airport Express (brand new, bought last week), but can only seem to do so by connecting it via cat5 to the router, which doesn't actually extend anything. I have a Linksys WRT54GS with DD-WRT, and want to have the Airport Express in a different room so cat5 isn't an option.
I'm using WPA2 Personal security on my network.
I've tried to follow several sets of instructions from these forums and on blogs, but the only things I've been able to do are...
1) connect via cat5, selecting "Create a new network" with the same SSID and such, but it doesn't give me any more range.
2) connect wirelessly selecting "Join an existing network", but that doesn't extend the network at all either, even if I put the AE at the edge of the network now.
Thanks in advance. All I really want to do is access my wireless from the other half of my house.
Zack

It was possible to create a WDS between the older 802.11g AirPort Express and the Linksys WRT-54GS and this (as you know) has been documented on the Internet. However, I do not know of anyone that has been successful doing so with either of the 802.11n generations.
The two methods that you have tried would not work as neither is the proper method to set up a WDS. Please check out the following Apple Support article for more details. If you are successful in setting a WDS between them, please post back your results.

Can I use my old AirPort Extreme to extend my network?

I recently replaced my year-old AirPort Extreme with a Time Capsule. The TC setup was the easiest ever, and it actually asked if it was replacing the AirPort and used the old settings, network name, et al. Had it up and running in five minutes and all computers and devices attached to it without any changes necessary.
So now that I've got this AirPort, I'm wondering if I can use it like an Express and put it into the farthest reaches of my house to extend my network and attach it to my new Apple TV. I also have an old AirPort Express which isn't the 'n' model. What to do?

So now that I've got this AirPort, I'm wondering if I can use it like an Express and put it into the farthest reaches of my house to extend my network and attach it to my new Apple TV.
Yes, you could use the 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station (AEBSn) to extend the wireless range of the new TC. Whether or not, it will be successful, will depend on both at distance you are trying to cover and what form of Wi-Fi obstructions (walls, ceilings, floors, etc.) there are between the two routers.

How do I extend my network with two routers?

Hey all,
I've been wondering for a while how I could solve the weak signals that I get in the lower level of my house from my standard Verizon FiOs router. I have an Airport Extreme still lying around after it was taken out and replaced by the Verizon guys when they installed FiOs and I thought I might be able to put it to use downstairs. Is there any way I could put my Verizon router (which is directly connected to the fiber optic modem) and my Airport Extreme together to work in an extended network so that I could have strong signals in both levels of my house? Is it even possible? Any helps on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Dranakin wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the terms 'network throughput'. Is that referring to the speed of the network? Your internet speed is slowed down when connecting to a remote station?
Yes. At least with an 802.11b or g network, the effective network bandwidth is halved with each remote base station in a WDS configuration. In other words, if the maximum theoretical throughput of an 802.11g system is 54 Mbps, adding a remote base station will reduce it to 27 Mbps.
{quote:title=from Wikipedia:}{quote}
Two disadvantages to using WDS are:
• The maximum wireless effective throughput is halved after the first retransmission (hop) that is made. For example, in the case of two routers connected via WDS, and communication is made between a computer that is plugged into router A and a laptop that is connected wirelessly using router B's access point, the throughput is halved, because router B has to retransmit the information during the communication of the two sides. However, in the case of communications between a computer that is plugged into router A and a computer that is plugged into router B, the throughput is not halved since there is no need to retransmit the information.
• Dynamically assigned and rotated encryption keys are usually not supported in a WDS connection. ...
I didn't really believe it until I added a remote base station and checked my network speed with http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/, with and without WDS.
As I understand it, 802.11n networks are not be affected in the same manner due to its ability to handle multiple data streams simultaneously.
If you want to extend your network without sacrificing bandwidth, you can certainly connect the base station Ethernet ports. That is not WDS; Apple calls it "extending a network". That's also how they do it in Apple's retail stores (at least when they used b/g AEBSs).
Message was edited by: John Galt

Is there any proof that Airport Express really extends a network?

I've been using various Airport Express devices since their inception, always on extended Extreme networks. Yet I've never been able to demonstrate with any certainty that the network is genuinely extended. I seem to get the same range with or without Express plugged in. Has anyone seen any objective evidence, any third party test, proving that Express really extends a network?
At this point I have an Express about 50 feet from the base in a frame house: no brick or concrete between. I get maximum bars in the room with Express, whether or not it is plugged in, and there is often considerable delay in web page loading, whether or not Express is plugged in. The device doesn't improve things appreciably.

Two quick things to check using AirPort Utility on both devices:
On your "main" base station
Open AirPort Utility - click Manual Setup
Click the Wireless tab/label located just below the row of icons
There must be a check mark next to "Allow this network to be extended"
Click Update to save your changes.
If you don't see this option, you likely have an older AirPort Extreme that does not support the "extend" feature. Please clarify on the version that you have
On your AirPort Express
Open AirPort Utility - click Manual Setup
Click the Wireless tab
Wireless Mode = Extend a wireless network
Wireless Name = Same name as your main network
Check mark next to "Allow wireless clients"
Wireless Security = Same setting as your main router
Wireless Password = Same password as your main network
Confirm Password
Click Update to save settings
If you do not see the "Extend a wireless network setting", you may have an older AirPort Express, or if you are sure that you have a newer 802.11n model, try holding down the option key while you click on the selection box to see if the "Extend" setting will appear.
Assuming no major obstructions between the main router and area that needs more wireless coverage, a good starting location for the Express would be a point that is approximately half the distance between the main router and the area that needs more coverage.
As I said, this feature works very well if major obstructions do not come into play.

Help with extending a network using AirPort Express

I am UK based and have BT Infinity Internet connection. I have a BT NTE which provides an ethernet connection for my home network. I have an AirPort Express 2nd Gen setup to provide initial router etc with the local LAN port connected to a 24 port gigabit switch. I have structured cabling providing ethernet ports in each room.
PC's etc are configured as fixed IP in the rooms they are in and connect via ethernet, however, my wifi (because of the construction of the house) is very poor especially upstairs and at the back of the house.
I have setup a second AirPort Express at the back of the house connected via the ethernet port, assigned a static IP, configured bridge mode, and setup Extended Network. However, my internal network is now very flacky, wifi keeps dropping out, Internet access for all devices is up and down, in short, it's unusable. However, If I use the second AirPort Express in Join a Network mode it appears to be more stable!
So Q1 - What is the difference between Extend a Network (via ethernet) and Join a Network (via ethernet) and what are the benefits of both? (which one should I be using?)
and Q2 - assuming Q1 is Extend a Network is the correct way to go, can someone please explain in complete detail the exact process and configuration for this to work effectively? If I can extend correctly I am looking at adding a third AirPort Express in the garage so I have wifi access in the garden and in the garage.
Many thanks for all assistance
Nick

resolved - see Proper way to setup two airport express and router in a single wireless network

Airport Express won't extend wireless network

I think due to a fault my airport express wont extend my wireless network around my house , but it will allow for airplay ... is it possiple to extend my network using the express but with an eithernet cable rather than the wireless that is transmitted out of the express unit ??

Is the other wireless router, that you are trying to extend, another AirPort or Time Capsule base station? If so, are both units 802.11n models? Finally, what is the rough distance between the units and are they located in the same room, different room, or different floor?

Extending a network between houses?

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