NTSC project timeline length is shorter on actual burned DVD

Hi everyone
I am working on authoring a series of DVDs of music concerts using Encore CS3. These have all been edited in Premiere (CS3). The footage was all acquired and edited in PAL, as I normally do, as we are UK-based. This project was then authored in Encore in PAL format - everything fine.
However, we have also made versions of these particular concerts in NTSC as there is worldwide market. have converted the video to NTSC using GV Procoder 3, and inserted my rendered audio, slightly adjusted for sync - all fine, into a new NTSC Premiere project. This is re-rendered to M2V & AC3 files for the DVD. Again all fine. This is a long concert - the length of my timeline is 3;16;36;09. However when I check the finished DVD back in a DVD player or Windows Media player, the length has reduced to 3hr16min24sec. So approx 12 seconds shorter over the length of 3 1/4 hours. There appears to be no audio sync problem, or anything missed out, and the chapters are where they should be just everything is just that slight bit compressed. (i.e. halfway through is 6 seconds different between timeline and DVD)
I normally only make PAL DVDs, and have never encountered this before, so apologies if it's obvious to NTSC folk but would like reassurance that it's not something which I'm doing wrong!
Interestingly I have checked two other discs in the same series, which have been released, which have the same effect. 2hours 18min 47sec in Encore reduces to 2hours 18 mins 39 sec on DVD
Any reason for this? My PAL versions is exactly 3.16.40.00 on both!!
Many thanks
Daniel

Hi Stan,
Thanks for the message. It appears that the conversion does shorten the total, though I'm not sure exactly why it does this, I'm sure it's to do with the frame rates. This is not my concern however, it's why the timeline in an Encore NTSC project appears 12 seconds shorter on the burned disc, a bit like a stretched elastic band being slighty less tensed!
Transcoded out of Premiere CS3 using Matrox Media encoder to M2V and AC3 and imported to Encore as compliant.
Thanks

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I found the solution to the blank error - what had happened was that when I was trying to make the background, it said "drag media here to make thumbnail" (or something) so I did, but although it didn't work, what I didn't realise was when I dragged the preview image to the thumbnail, I had actually dragged the image right off the screen! But when I did "undo", it looked OK, so I didn't notice it hadn't undone the move. If that makes sense.
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How to convert my NTSC project to PAL?

Hi! I'd like know how i can convert my ntsc project into PAL.
I need finish a DVD for my client take to ANGOLA and there is PAL system.It is possible? My Encore is 2.0.
Or It is possible put my NTSC movie into PAL project and let encore transcode the movie? Thank you very much and sorry my english.

You have several options.
1 - Create a new PAL project in Premiere Pro. Capture your footage in the usual manner, and as soon as it is in the project, hit the ENTER key to render it.
2 - Create an NTSC project in Premiere Pro, capture to NTSC DV footage, and export it out again.
Close project.
Create new PAL project, import the NTSC clip & then interpret/conform the footage to the project settings.
3 - Set up an NTSC project, capture footage, export to PAL DV or MPEG-2 from Premiere.
4 - Use TMPGEnc Xpress 4 - it's standards conversion is very good.
5 - Use ProCoder, as Ruud suggests
6 - Use CCE SP if you have it.
I'd try as many different ways as you can, and view the lot to see what looks the best.

I am having problems copying and pasting clips from one project timeline to another. When I do this they often alter in length. Sometimes by two frames. Other times they lose a chunk off the end of the last clip in the sequence. Has anyone else found

I am having problems copying and pasting clips from one project timeline to another. When I do this they often alter in length. Sometimes by two frames. Other times they lose a chunk off the end of the last clip in the sequence. Has anyone else found this?

You need to give a lot more information about the media specifications and the project properties you're using in the different projects.

NTSC Project Export to PAL?

I have a project that I edited in Premiere and a DVD project designed in Encore CS6 - all in NTSC. A client in the UK needs a copy in PAL. What is the best way to approach this? Encore does not allow me to change the standard in Settings or Prefs. The DVD project is made up of mostly Dynamically linked Premiere sequences, shot and edited in NTSC

moccamaximum wrote:
If your DVD is not mulitlingual (Because FLV can have no multiple audiotracks) and you only want to show the final product to your client, without the requirement that it has absolutely to be played back in a 10+ years old PAL-only Player, you could always go for Webexport(Flash).
If you have never tried it before: at best quality it pretty much is indistinguishable from the real deal.
Flash excport is not a DVD and is not supported on APple devices either so not a great answer. Likewise, this will not play on any DVD players either.
Alex DeJesus wrote:
Sorry mocca, this is WAY over my head. I did not realize I needed PAL menus, only PAL video assets. I thought that if I created an Adobe project in PAL that Encore would encode the menus accordingly.
Neil, I am able to export PAL from an NTSC sequence in Premiere. Or I can create a PAL sequence and cut and paste from the NTSC sequence already edited - without timeline markers, though. This is pretty frustrating stuff to keep track of. And I have no idea it will playback in England.
Hi Alex.
I understand your pain, believe me - and if your client is specifically asking for PAL, then that is what you have to deliver.
Exporting a PAL asset from an NTSC sequence is indeed possible in PPro, but be very very careful as the frame rate differs from the NTSC, and you will have to check playback very carefully to make sure you are not just dropping frames which could result in twitchy playback. (NTSC is 30fps, PAL is 25 - all sorts of room for catastrophe there)
There are settings in the render dialogue that can help with scaling (your footage will be scaled as well) and different render frame rates compared to sequence frame rates.
Just tick the "Maximum render quality" and "Maximum depth" options & cross fingers & toes.
Personally I have had much more success with After Effects than PPro for this type of work - the thing to remember in AE conversions is to be absolutely sure ytou set the option in t he render dialogue to "composition length" instead of "Whole timeline" or whatever it is called (memory fails me right now) or else your run time will change. To explain what I mean, we recently had to create a title where there were 5 film clips, one in NTSC, 2 in PAL and 2 more in 4 and 12 fps stop-frame animations. Without the "composition length" option ticked the thing simply ran out a hell of a lot faster than it should have done but with that option checked, AE just created new frames and the results were great.
Menus also have PAL resolution of course, as well as the different PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) earlier discussed. Scaling these will ruin text in mnore cases than not & t he best approach is to rebuild all menus from scratch - it is actually quite simples in PhotoShop - just open your original NTSC screen, create a new PAL menu template from the presets given and then (after turning off SPHL layers) merge or flatten the original NTSC screen, and then drag the background onto the blank PAL menu, hit CTRL-T (make it a scalable object) and resize to fit your new screen - you may well need to fill in the blanks - and then just drop your button layers in & tweak.
Final option is to check with client & ask them why they need PAL - which I have to congfess raises one question in my mind:
WHen you shot the footage, had you been asked to supply NTSC or PAL originally? If they asked for NTSC, then you should charge them for the reworking to PAL.
However, if they wanted just PAL in the first place then you have to bite the bullet on this one.

Motion timeline length

Is anyone else experiencing this. All of my motion files are locked at 300 frames. Now before someone tells me that is the default i know that but here is the weird thing. I create a ntsc comp and set the project length to 20 seconds. I make my necessary edits and save my file. All is well. I import the file into FCP and lay in the timeline and it states it is 20 seconds long. All is still well. Now, Let's say i want to edit the original motion file. I right click on the motn file in the timeline and select "edit in editor" and the file opens back up in motion, but now, my timeline length is locked back at the default of 300 frames (10 seconds). i thought it might be a problem with a corrupt file so i made a new one (DVD menu) and placed that in DVDSP, time looked fine. Again, i go back in and try to edit the file and it is again locked at 300 frames. I've tried to open the file from within motion and it still goes back to the default file length.
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Thanks for responding Patrick. What I mean by locked....actually locked is a poor choice of word, I mean that it has defaulted back to my project being 300 frames long when it was originally set to 600 frames. I can move the project boundary marker in the timeline down the timeline to lets say anything under 300 frames but it wont go higher. I open the project properties and my project is set to 10 seconds long when it was originally set to 20 seconds. It is as if Motion is resetting my projects back to the default length.
Yes, it does loop at 10 seconds and will not go to the end of the project.
An example is: Lets say I have to go back in and change some text that falls in at 15 seconds in the timeline. I have to go back into my project settings and set my project length back to what it was originally becasue I can't get to that part of the timeline.
This is very frustrating.

Is there a way to convert an existing NTSC project to a PAL project?

I searched the Encore CS3 manual and all four Encore forums before starting this thread. Apologies if I missed the answer.
In Encore CS3, apparently one is only allowed to specify NTSC or PAL when starting a new project. If I try File->Project Settings on an existing project, I can change the Authoring Mode between DVD and Blu-ray, but the Television Standard edit box is grayed out and cannot be changed.
I often need to release projects in both NTSC and PAL standards, and it is a royal PITA to have to start a new PAL project, import the exact same assets as for my NTSC project, then rebuild all my menus, buttons, timelines, chapters, etc.
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I understand your concern. I don't know for sure yet myself as the client had yet to mail the discs to Italy last time I talked to them.
However, I would check to see if the people on the forum are saying they won't work because they made a mistake in changing the parameters in ifoedit or if everything was correct and it still didn't play. Also, once you make the discs, even if everything is correct, they certainly won't play in American DVD players that aren't multi-region.
Also, ifoedit is a really simple free program you can download. If you google it you should be able to find it quickly.
From the quick look at the link I gave you, it looked like a rudimentary explanation of how to do it. I need to find for you the web site I found when I did this a couple months ago. I know I saved the info somewhere on my hard drive. I will try to find it later tonight after my kids go to sleep, ha!
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If you have to change the language of the menus and all that, than you'll have to re-author the dvd in encore anyway you may as well do it through encore.

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OK, I'll take it back. If you have a few half hour long clips and put them all in the timeline and cut them up, yes that would bog the application down a lot. Then you'll really be better off making your selects in the browser. If your shots are reasonable length then you can cut where you like.

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http://www.nattress.com/standardsConversion.htm
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NTSC project timeline length is shorter on actual burned DVD

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