Progressive frame rate

This is my first foray into HD, so my apology for this rudimentary question.
How can I tell if an HD footage is progressive or interlaced?
I have 30min worth of HDCAM. The post house that did the transfer told me that they're 1080p25 (I have no reason to doubt them). I'm just curious if there's any way I can double-check to make sure that they're 25p and not 25i.
I imported a sample clip into FCP and looked under 'Item Properties'. I only saw the following data but no mentioning of whether it's progressive or interlaced:
Vid Rate: 25fps
Frame Size: 1920 x 1080
Compressor: Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2
Pixel Aspect: Square
Field Dominance: Upper (Odd)
By the way, does progressive video have a field dominance?
Thanks,
td

Thanks for the detailed answer. I'm based in Vietnam and none of the local post houses have much experience in doing progressive HD since most of their work is for TVCs. I had to go to Bangkok to do the full-grade transfer (from 35mm) to HDCAM and conform in FCP. I specifically asked for 25P frame rate because this will finish in film. I wonder if they messed up (I hope that's not the case).
I just need to clarify a few things.
The reason my question came up was because as I understand it, progressive video should have no field dominance. Is this correct?
All these footages have Upper field dominance. Is this a definite indication that they're interlaced? Are there any type of HD that has an Upper field dominance?
I did a few test and got mixed result. But I'm not sure if this is because my system is not set up to do anything more than DV, and I don't have a 1080p25 Codec in my system. These are the tests I did:
Since the post house has a more recent version of FCP than I do, they gave me an XML file of the conformed project. I imported the XML, with the 'Override with setting from XML' box checked. Everything is red on the timeline, even after I changed all the timeline's settings to match the footages' settings.
However, when I create a new project, set the Sequence Settings to 1920x1080, Square pixel, Upper Field Dominance, Compressor as Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2. Import a clip directly into the FCP project and place it on this time line. It's gray.
I created a new timeline with same setting, except for Field Dominance set to NONE, the clip is still gray when placed on the timeline.
On the other hand, when I looked at one of the footages at full-size, frame by frame, on my Cinema display (I don't have an HD broadcast monitor), the edges look pretty sharp. For ex. I have a shot of a swish pan following a car speeding across the screen. There are some horizontal streaks in the background, but these look like motion blurs rather than interlaced artifacts. The edge of the car is sharp, with no jaggy. This seems to indicate that it's progressive.
My big worry is that the post house did the transfer (to tape) at 25P, but captured at 50i or 25i by mistake. Then again, if the Codec on the footages says Uncompressed 8-bit, then the captured footages should be the same as what's on the master tape, shouldn't it?
I'm thoroughly confused at this point. Anything that helps to shed light on this would be greatly appreciated.
I apologize for the lengthy note, but I figured it may help to give some backgrounds on the project. I need to get this sorted out before going online. This could be a very costly fix, especially since I'm paying for this film out of my own pocket. But at least if I catch it on time, I can minimize the damage.
Thanks again.
td

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    Duration                                 : 20mn 13s
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 14.2 Mbps
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-12-11 13:56:13
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-12-11 13:58:30
    ©TIM                                     : 00:00:00:00
    ©TSC                                     : 30
    ©TSZ                                     : 1
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : [email protected]
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
    Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=30
    Codec ID                                 : avc1
    Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration                                 : 20mn 13s
    Source duration                          : 20mn 13s
    Bit rate                                 : 14.0 Mbps
    Width                                    : 2 560 pixels
    Height                                   : 1 440 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Variable
    Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps
    Minimum frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
    Maximum frame rate                       : 30.030 fps
    Standard                                 : PAL
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.127
    Stream size                              : 1.98 GiB (99%)
    Source stream size                       : 1.98 GiB (99%)
    Language                                 : English
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-12-11 13:56:13
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-12-11 13:56:13
    Color primaries                          : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
    mdhd_Duration                            : 1213733
    Audio
    ID                                       : 2
    Format                                   : AAC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format profile                           : LC
    Codec ID                                 : 40
    Duration                                 : 20mn 13s
    Source duration                          : 20mn 13s
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Bit rate                                 : 158 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate                         : 254 Kbps
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Channel positions                        : Front: L R
    Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 22.8 MiB (1%)
    Source stream size                       : 22.8 MiB (1%)
    Language                                 : English
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-12-11 13:56:13
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-12-11 13:56:13
    mdhd_Duration                            : 1213777
    And there i can read that the "frame rate mode" is variable... and that's the bad thing... I want to change that point to a constant frame rate mode. I use the H.264 codec 

  • 23.976 frame rate explained

    This post was triggered from this this thread:
    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=4741388#4741388
    I just thought it best to start a new one
    Okay iSchwartz, with the speed of a flying bullet, and with help from my fellow members of the IBS (Institute of Broadcast Sound - in the UK), I think I have some answers...
    24P is indeed simply video at 24frames per second with the "P" meaning Progressive scan. Its a video format invented to be compatible with film. It also means that the footage will have more of a "film look" when its converted to TV frame rates for broadcast as it will have the same process applied to it as film footage.
    As to where 23.976 fps comes in (with regards to Logic) is rather more vague!
    (warning - the following contains some speculation!)
    As all will know because film is shot at 24fps it needs a special conversion process to be shown on an NTSC TV of 29.97fps. The process could just speed the film up but it would look funny and so they sort of duplicate some of the film's frames instead, to get the frame rate increased. The process used would result in a frame rate of 30fps so to bring it in line with the (cumbersome) NTSC frame rate they have to slow the film down slightly (by 0.1%) before they "scan" in the film's frames to make video.
    ...and guess what a 0.1% speed reduction of 24fps results in? Yes - 23.976!
    so...
    23.976 is the frame rate of the telecine machine when playing film to transfer to NTSC tv. The process involves slowing the 24fps film by 0.1% to 23.976 and applying a 2:3 pulldown picture process, resulting in NTSC's frame rate of 29.97fps
    Now the question is why would you want Logic to work in 23.976fps?
    It is possible (I don't know for sure) that when you shoot with film (ie 24fps), destined for tv that the programme is edited at 23.976, ready for the telecine process, and so this is the frame rate used during the post production process - As it is the time reference used in the edit then we need logic to work at this rate too so we're all in time.
    It is also possible that the latest HD video cameras provide a shooting frame rate of 23.976 fps so that the "slow down" process of the past is not required.
    Having said that to view the 23.976 fps pictures on telly the video needs to be converted to 30fpsDrop - or you need a display that can work at this unusual frame rate. I am not sure what the implication of all this would be for the musician "working to picture".
    One thing I would say, is that musicians are not alone in having much confusion with frame rates and time code, especially now Hi def has arrived. I would strongly advise double checking with "production", particularly the dubbing editor, if that frame rate requested ~really~ is the right one!
    I hope I haven't confused the issue even more with all that! Don't take any of this as gospel as I am still learning too. I trust someone will provide corrections and additions.

    Rohan,
    I agree in so far as the musician should not have to worry about the technical aspects of picture, but the composer is working within a team of people who have to be able to communicate effectively. the composer is also part of the production's overall workflow and so the composer's work methods can be dependent on productions.
    To answer you points individually...
    - when the telecine is created, and then sent for offline editing, it is the offline edit that you receive with the BITC or the striped LTC (rare these days) that should be your guide. obviously in the states with the confusing NTSC format, it is important to be sure what format they have used in the offline process, but ultimately it is the production facility to ensure you have a video edit that you can work to
    Your first sentence says it all. If the offline edit is in 23.976 then presumably this is what you'll get sent. I have no idea how this will get delivered as the format would not work on video tape, you wouldn't be able to view it on a standard TV either. You could view it as a quicktime movie. That is the only way I can think of.
    I agree it should be up to production to provide you with what you can work with but how far must they accommodate? I doubt anyone would be too happy providing U-matic tapes these days. For my last job I wanted QT movies on a DVD-R but I had to settle for DV tapes and capture myself. Lets face it, as technology gets cheaper and more accessible we are increasingly expected to be able to handle all those advances!
    - so the music you create can either sync to a master clock (which is rare other than word clock which is not for video syncing anyway) or simply to the QT or VHS that you have been provided with which should have standard frame rates. you simply compose your music based on that sync
    I don't know what you mean by "master clock" in this context, and as you point out word clock has no timing information at all and is irrelevant in a timecode discussion. Yes you work to the movie you've been given, but what if its using 23.976fps? If it is, it wont be on VHS - and, you wont be able to sync properly to it in Logic as Logic doesn't work with 23.976
    If production provides you with a "special copy" in say standard NTSC 29.97fps then the editors timecode will be different to yours. You wont be able to talk timecodes with them over the phone for example. For them to do this production will have to convert the footage specially for you using 3:2pulldown telecine process (so the film plays at the right speed) and I'm not sure they would pay for that!
    - the issue is more critical in the dubb, but generally 1 second of music at whatever frame rate is still 1 second of music. when you send your music in it is almost never smpte locked unless you have delivered via a timecoded DAT something which is very rare these days. basically it simply measures the sample rate and then syncs within the DAW in the dub
    1 second in NTSC's 29.97fps is 1second at 23.976fps which is 1 second in PAL's 25fps too;-) Its the number of frames within one second that has changed. The problem is the format of the movie. you can play it in QT but not on the telly and Logic doesn't have a time base to match with it. It is likely that logic will be able to follow the movie in QT (not sure of that), or "chase" it, but Logic's own smpte display will not match the movie's BITC. Indeed all of logic's time references will not match the movie's.
    when you send your music in it is almost never smpte locked unless you have delivered via a timecoded DAT something which is very rare these days. basically it simply measures the sample rate and then syncs within the DAW in the dub
    Ever heard of BWF? Bounce your finished music in logic as a WAV file and you actually get a timecode stamped "Broadcast WAV" file: a file that has the SMPTE time of where the music starts in the film. The timing info is embedded in the file. All the dub mixer has to do is press a key-command to place this file in the right place in the film. I worked this way on my last project. (Its also how logic can place any audio file into "its original recording position")
    Without using timecode I'm wondering how you tell "the dub" where the music should go in the film? - I'm genuinely curious. In the past when delivering music without timecode I would still say, in a written note for eg, the track starts at some timecode point (as referenced to the BITC for eg). This is why the composers timecode needs to be the same as the dub/editor's!
    - it is simply important for the people sending you their film to agree how many frames consitute their second. if you have a VHS playout from the offline, you should work to whatever format that VHS or DVD comes in; NTSC or PAL. it's not your job to worry about the film to offline telecine
    A nice thought in theory:-)
    It shouldn't be our job to worry about such things (bars, beats, keys and harmony are enough for me!) but we may not have the choice if we want the job!
    Don't get me wrong here Rohan. I don't profess to understanding all this stuff properly and I have never been asked to work in 23.976fps. I went down this line of enquiry to see if I needed to know about it! Perhaps you are right and production will supply a special version for the composer - but I'd like to know if this is the case as I like to have a basic grasp of the overall production process. I'd love to know of anyone who has had to work in this frame rate and how typical it is becoming (if at all).

  • Cannot create slideshow with high frame rate

    I have just bought QuickTime Pro version 7. I am using Windnows XP SP2 on a Pentium D machine.
    I am trying to create a movie with still images I captured from my digital camera. I created a 10 seconds slideshow and set the frame rate to 30 frames per second. I then saved the file as a Quicktime movie. When I played the movie with my QuickTime Player, I could see actions for the first two seconds only. After that, the picture didn't change eventhough the progression bar was moving. Once the movie reached the end, the player then changed the frame to show the last picture of my slideshow.
    In short, only the first 60 images are shown in the first 2 seconds. Then the slideshow was stuck with the 60th image, until it changed to the 300th image at the very end.
    Does anybody has the same experience? Did I do anything wrong?

    One more thing. If I set the frame rate to be less than 10 frames per second, it works fine. It just won't work with high frame rate.

  • Wav sound and frame rate problem

    I have a wav file sound that I'm using within a movie clip in
    the movie clip's timeline. When I test the movie from within Flash
    (command-return), everything works great. When I publish and view
    online, here's what happens.
    If I click a button to move to another frame in the movie
    while the sound is playing, the frame rate speeds up and the movie
    gets a "fast forward" look to it until the sound ends. If I click a
    button when the sound is not playing, everything is fine. Am I
    missing something in the publish settings? Do I need to stop the
    sound in AS3 on the CLICK events (and if so, how)?
    Thanks,

    You will have to use Compressor...and the Advanced Conversion settings...DVCPRO HD 720p24. But you will also need to go into the FRAME controls in the INSPECTOR and make sure that you make it progressive and that you changes all the settings to better or best. This means that it will take a while, but it will look better.
    Shane

  • Want frame rate of 30 fps

    I create animations at 30 fps. When I put them in FCE HD the last frame is left out or black. I need to set the frame rate to 30 fps instead of the default 29.97 or maybe use non-drop fame setting. I am not sure which will work. How do I reset the frame rate to 30 or non-drop? Using Tiger on a G5.

    Gary,
    Drop or non-drop frame affects timecode only not the actual framerate or number of frames.
    I've had a quick play at this and can't re-create the problem. I've tried with a 30fps interlaced and a 30fps progressive clip.
    What are you dong with your animations after working in FCE? If you are outputting to video or DVD you are going to need to work with PAL or NTSC framerates anyway.
    If you are just using FCE to edit your animations and then saving to Quicktime, etc perhaps you could try the 720p30 HDV setting. Although I don't know if the 30 really means 30fps or whether it's the same deal as NTSC (i.e. 29.97)
    Or prep your material for FCE. Use Quicktime Pro to output your animations to 29.97fps. If they are progressive maybe making them interlaced might help.
    Since you can't do a lot to the set-ups in FCE you're best altering your animations to suit.

  • 23.98 frame rate

    I have HD footage that has a frame rate of 23.98 fps. Can I edit Final Cut Express 4.0.1 without it converting the frame rate to 25fps? There's no setting in the Esy Setup for 24fps, so I am assuming it will have to re-render everything to 25fps every time I import? Or how do I set the project frame rate to 24?
    thanks

    FCE does not handle 24fps (23.98 fps) material.  Never did.  FCE only handles certain frame sizes/rates/codecs, and you cannot make specific settings other than what is available in the Easy Setups.
    24 fps is a progressive mode; for editing in FCE you would have to convert it to an interlaced mode; or to 720p 25 or 30.  If you are in North America then that would be 60i or 30p.  The 25 fps/50i Easy Setups are PAL (European) settings.
    My main suggestion is to upgrade to Final Cut Pro X.   All other ways of editing the video in FCE involve converting the frame rate, which is not a great thing to have to do as there is always some loss of quality.  You might look into JES Deinterlacer or MPEG Streamclip to convert the frame rate to one that is supported in FCE.

  • Variable Frame Rate

    If I have clips that were recorded at different frame rates, say 24fps and 60fps, and I put them in the same video project, how does PE11 handle this? Will it cause issues or lower the quality?

    AudreyRose2012
    Slow motion for your 1080p60 will be achieved in either of three ways in Expert workspace (project preset no part of this):
    a. Interpret Footage. Frame Rate section of the Interpret Footage dialog. Right click file in Project Assets, select Interpret Footage, and, in Frame Rate section, dot Assume this frame rate, and type in your wanted frame rate)
    b. Time Stretch. Set Duration for less than 100%. This will increase the length of the video and apply a slow motion effect.
    c. Time Remapping.
    http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-elements-11/time-remapping-with-adobe-premiere-el ements-11/
    Until proven otherwise, I would use the
    NTSC AVCHD AVCHD 1080p60 project preset
    and apply Interpret Footage to that video for which you want a slow motion effect. You could also consider Time Remapping feature with or  without Frame Blend option that is built into Time Remapping.
    I never use the frame rate same as source for exporting. It typically does it own thing under those circumstance and that is not always the frame rate that should have been. I would take the time to specify the frame rate in export along with all the rest of the export settings.
    If you are going to upload your Expert workspace Timeline to Vimeo, I would try the settings suggested by SG...that is, Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD with Presets = VimeoHD. The default there is 1280 x 720, so I would customize the setting under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of that preset to give 1920 x 1080. Set the Level and Profile first, so that you can type in the 1920 x 1080 values. Then you would upload the AVCHD.mp4 file that you obtain and upload it to Vimeo at the Vimeo web site.
    In the following Export Settings dialog for that export. I have the frame rate set for 59.94 progressive frames per second. Depending on your project plan, you can reset that to your preference
    If you decide to upload your Expert workspace Timeline to Vimeo via the program's Publish+Share/Online/Vimeo with Presets = VimeoHD, you cannot change the 1280 x 720 resolution there.
    Please review all comments and let SG know of your progress.
    Thanks.
    ATR

  • Why doesn't Premiere handle variable frame rate video?

    Variable frame rate video comes from many places these days: phones, live streamed video recordings.
    Adobe Premiere is a supposedly production level piece of software that cost a good chunk of change.
    How is it 2012 and Adobe does not still have an answer to this problem?  After trying to editing/convert/mux/edit variable frame rate videos for the past 5 hours I am just exhausted.  No amount of conversion apps, etc have saved us and THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO. 
    We have spent thousands on Adobe software packages over the last decade, probably 10s of thousands, and the only answer I find consistently is to switch to Vegas. 
    Surely, SURELY someone at Adobe with real insight into the issue can help answer the question of whether users moving into different medium should find a place elsewhere in the software ecosystem...
    Message was edited by: Kevin Monahan
    Reason: to make article more searchable

    The file I am trying to edit was recorded in a streaming application called XSplit, very popular in the game / live streaming community. 
    The frame rate is variable, slightly I am guessing, because the real time nature of the recording/stream.  The issue is that while WMP and VLC play the file back 100% correctly, when played back inside Premiere CS6 the file drifts out of sync so at the end of a 2 hour clip, we are talking more than a full second or so.
    According to MediaInfo, here is the file detail:
    General
    Complete name                            : Y:\Live\2012-12-4 Farcry 3\2012-12-04_200413079.mp4
    Format                                   : MPEG-4
    Format profile                           : Base Media
    Codec ID                                 : isom
    File size                                : 4.33 GiB
    Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
    Overall bit rate                         : 4 713 Kbps
    Writing application                      : Lavf54.0.100
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : [email protected]
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
    Codec ID                                 : avc1
    Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
    Bit rate                                 : 4 574 Kbps
    Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
    Height                                   : 720 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Variable
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
    Minimum frame rate                       : 5.000 fps
    Maximum frame rate                       : 30.303 fps
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.166
    Stream size                              : 4.20 GiB (97%)
    Writing library                          : x264 core 125 r2200 999b753
    Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=13.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5000 / vbv_bufsize=7000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
    Audio
    ID                                       : 2
    Format                                   : AAC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format profile                           : LC
    Codec ID                                 : 40
    Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 128 Kbps
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Channel positions                        : Front: L R
    Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 120 MiB (3%)

  • Best frame rates for 4 different cameras in multicam

    Well, I've been flopping around in different threads on this forum, but I think the question is beginning to finally take shape for me. Basically it's all about deciding on frame rates for four different cameras I will be using to shoot a 6-day intensive course I will be teaching. The video will be primarily for computer viewing (YouTube, Quicktime movies). Here are the cameras:
    2 new Canon cameras capable of frame rates of 60i, 30 frames per second progressive "recorded as 60i", and 24 frames per second progressive also "recorded as 60i" (there is a known issue with importing the 30 frames per second into fcpx, as fcpx does not recognize this as progressive, but ClipWrap can get around this).
    1 Sony capable of 60i, 60P, and 24P
    1 Sanyo capable of 60i and 30P
    Possible settings:
    Just do all at 60i, but people say this is not so good for computer viewing
    Canon at 30 fps (using ClipWrap to see it gets recognized as progressive), and the Sony and Sanyo at 60i. Will this cause syncing or other problems, mixing frame rates like this? How bad a hit in quality is 60i on computer screens?
    Canon and Sanyo at 30 fps, Sony at 60i
    Same as #3, but use JES Deinterlacer to get Sony 60i to 30 fps.(I tried this out, by the way, and the resulting frame rate, after deinterlacing, showed up in the inspector window at 30, not 29.97. Is that a problem?
    Anyway, I aplogogize for wearing out my welcome on this forum, and I thank everyone for creating such a wonderful bank of information.

    Not sure what you're trying to achieve here - for the best overall quality, if possible, choose a frame rate that all the cameras can achieve. That way you won't lose quality in the conversion.
    If you're not satisfied with that, you need to do some tests to see which gives you the effect you like best. Nobody here can help you really - it's up to you.
    Andy

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