Why doesn't Premiere handle variable frame rate video?

Variable frame rate video comes from many places these days: phones, live streamed video recordings.
Adobe Premiere is a supposedly production level piece of software that cost a good chunk of change.
How is it 2012 and Adobe does not still have an answer to this problem? After trying to editing/convert/mux/edit variable frame rate videos for the past 5 hours I am just exhausted. No amount of conversion apps, etc have saved us and THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO.
We have spent thousands on Adobe software packages over the last decade, probably 10s of thousands, and the only answer I find consistently is to switch to Vegas.
Surely, SURELY someone at Adobe with real insight into the issue can help answer the question of whether users moving into different medium should find a place elsewhere in the software ecosystem...
Message was edited by: Kevin Monahan
Reason: to make article more searchable

The file I am trying to edit was recorded in a streaming application called XSplit, very popular in the game / live streaming community.
The frame rate is variable, slightly I am guessing, because the real time nature of the recording/stream. The issue is that while WMP and VLC play the file back 100% correctly, when played back inside Premiere CS6 the file drifts out of sync so at the end of a 2 hour clip, we are talking more than a full second or so.
According to MediaInfo, here is the file detail:
General
Complete name                            : Y:\Live\2012-12-4 Farcry 3\2012-12-04_200413079.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom
File size                                : 4.33 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
Overall bit rate                         : 4 713 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf54.0.100
Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
Bit rate                                 : 4 574 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 5.000 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 30.303 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.166
Stream size                              : 4.20 GiB (97%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 125 r2200 999b753
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=13.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5000 / vbv_bufsize=7000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 2h 11mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 120 MiB (3%)

Similar Messages

How does FCP Pro X handle mixed frame rate video clips?

My camcorders are by Canon and both can shoot 50i or 25p. Normally I shoot 25p to avoid interlace artefacts. As I understand it, FCP Pro X conforms the clips to match the initial clip in the storyline. But what would be the outcome if I included clips from another camcorder that only offered 30p? Would those clips be converted to 25p if the initial clip was 25p. Or, would the 25p clips be converted to 30p if the initial clip was 30p?
Assuming I made a movie entirely out 30p footage, would that be uploaded to You-Tube at that frame rate? If my movie is 25p is that converted to 30p for You-Tube upload? Could I otherwise export a QT movie to my desktop at 30 fps or any other frame rate?
It seems that the 25p setting on my camcorders still means that the recording is made as 50i but repackaged somehow. Can anyone explain please?
Yes, I am in the UK in a PAL environment.
AW.

But what would be the outcome if I included clips from another camcorder that only offered 30p? Would those clips be converted to 25p if the initial clip was 25p. Or, would the 25p clips be converted to 30p if the initial clip was 30p?
Subsequent clips will be converted to match the project settings created by the first clip into the timeline. I don't know how well FCP does this timebase conversion from NTSC to PAL frame rates or vice versa. Compressor would probably do a better job. There is also Standard Conversion software from Graeme Nattress that will do an excellent job.
YouTube will take either. You would need to use Compressor to change the frame rate on export, though you don't want to do that unless you absolutely have to.
Most consumer cameras do not actually shoot 25 separate frames when they're set to 25p. They shoot what's called segmented frames, two fields just as the 50i setting, only the two fields are supposed to be identical. That's the theory; in practice some cameras do this better than others.

Audio sync issues with variable frame rates as well as .ts files

I'm using Premiere Pro CS6 and CC, in Windows 8.
I bought an AverMedia Live Gamer HD card to capture 1080p footage with, and the the videos it produces work perfectly during playback. No sync issues whatsoever. I'm saving them as MP4 at 30fps.
The problem is when I import them into Premiere Pro, the audio loses sync at certain points. After a bit of digging, I've discovered that the videos have a variable frame rate, which Premiere Pro does not support. I don't know why, considering competing products that are significantly cheaper can handle them with a problem, but oh well. The capture card can also save videos in .TS format, which produces a constant frame rate, however when I import them into Premire Pro the sync is immediately off by a second or more. I assume this is for an entirely different reason. Again, they play back normally without a problem. Upon emailing AverMedia, I was told this was Adobe's problem and there was nothing they could do about it.
What I'm wondering is if there is any sort of realistic solution to this as of now. Is there any way that Premiere can work properly with files that have a variable frame rate? If not, is this being worked on?
Or maybe there's a way to get the .TS files back in sync, that way the variable frame rate issue doesn't matter anyway.
Converting the files is not a long term solution. I'm working with hours and hours of HD video, and it would take way too much time to do this.
Manually resyncing the audio is also not a solution. Again, this would just be way too much wasted time with each project.
The only solution I see as of now is to switch to Sony Vegas until this problem is resolved in Premiere, if it ever is. I'm really hoping there is some other way, so if anyone has an idea as to how to fix this, I'd really appreciate it.
Thank you.
tl/dr:
Is there any way to get around Premiere Pro not working with variable framerates? My .TS files are also out of sync, is there any way to fix that? Without converting or manually resyncing.

>If not, is this being worked on?
Discussed many times before... never a "yes" answer to your question... tell Adobe what YOU want at https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform
If enough people make a request, Adobe MAY add the feature (I don't work for Adobe, so no guarantee of anything)

Variable Frame Rate on H.264 output

I am using AE CS6 (cloud version). I am trying to render compositions to 1080p mp4. Each time the comp appears to render fine. But bringing it into my NLE crashes my NLE. I brought the media into MediaInfo (app from SourceForge that shows everything about a media clip). It says that the Frame Rate is VARIABLE Min: 60fps; Max 60.6 fps. The composition was 80 fps, and I told the renderer to keep it at 80. MediaInfo also said the duration was over 6 seconds. The composition was a little over 4 seconds. So the overall speed of the comp was incorrect. I've been in the video business for about 10 years. I understand frame rates, etc. Never heard of VARIABLE frame rates until this.
I was able to launder the media file through a freeware media format converter, and got it back into constant frame rate so I could proceed in the NLE with the project. But the time was still 6 seconds. So I had to speed up the clip in the NLE to get it back correct.
Since moving to CS6 from CS4, I decided to start using the H.264 output module. So I've just started encountering this variable frame rate problem.
So my questions... What is variable frame rate, how did I 'request' it, why is even the variable frame rate no where near the comp frame rate, and what do I do to simply get an mp4 with the 80fps that I want?
This is very reproducible for me. My comps are usually either HDTV 1920x1080 or HDV 1440x1080.
Add to Render Queue
Select DV Settings, change field order to none
Select H.264 output module
Render
Can someone explain what's going on?
Thanks.
Jerry

Where did you get that footage and what format was it originally shot in? Was it shot in slow motion or did you change the frame rate in AE? Why would you need 80fps footage unless you're going to slow it down to a normal frame rate?
Also, h.264 is not only a very lossy format, it's also a bad intermediate format. So if you're planning on editting that footage later on in an NLE, I'd suggest rendering it to something else. Premiere should work fine with h.264, but not FCP, although I think they fixed it in FCPX, but you didn't say what NLE you're using.
Second of all, the H.264 encoder is much better in Adobe Media Encoder. Check this post by Andrew Yoole:
3.Andrew Yoole,
Jun 8, 2012 6:34 PM in reply to pkaracas
Report
As the other guys have said, don't use AE to render using temporal codecs. Temporal codecs like H264 rely on storing partial frames based on earlier information. AE renders and encodes one frame at a time, so most of the efficiency of a codec like H264 is lost. The result is that you get much lower overall quality from an AE h.264 render than if you were to encode it externally.
Adobe Media Encoder or Quicktime 7 will encode great quality H.264 files.
Was this helpful? Yes No
As I said I'm not sure why you would need to take an 80fps piece of footage back into an NLE, but if you're trying to make that footage play back in slow motion, you're going to have to re-interpret the frame rate of the footage in After Effects to play back at standard rate. And, if you're going to use the AE Render Queue to output something for more editing, I would suggest using best settings and outputting to a production codec such as a ProRes, Animation, Uncompressed 10bit, Uncompressed 8bit or Black Magic.
Also I've never used that media info app before, but I know that when you open up quicktime and hit command I on the mac to view the inspector, the playing fps jumps around. I think this happens because the player doesn't necessarily play back the correct frame rate at all times.
This Adobe Captivate blog talks about variable frame rates in F4V files. Maybe it might help explain things.
http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/2010/11/f4v-or-f4v-fixed-frame-rate-what-should-i-go-with .html

Why Doesn't Premiere Elements 12 Recognize My Sony AVCHD Camera?

This is my first attempt at using Premiere Elements 12. Unfortunately, it is not recognizing my Sony HDR AVCHD format camera. It uses a san disk. I get a message "No supported devices detected". It does find the jpg photos, though.
So I directly loaded the MTS files onto my iMac and created a DVD. It looked pretty good, but not as good as playing the camera directly on a TV. I found something on another Adobe site that indicated if there were problems with Premiere reading from the card that the files could be loaded to the hard drive. It said "Be sure to copy the entire file structure of the card instead if just the clips". I'm not sure what that means. All I did was download the MTS files.
So I really have 2 questions here -
1 - why doesn't Premiere recognize my camera
2- Is there something on the san card I missed downloading that could improve the quality of the DVD being created?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Rickster213
Thanks for the reply and your additional comments and results.
I think that we need to make distinctions between Quality (how good or bad the results looks or sounds to you) and Resolution (Frame Size, Display Size). Often the two can go side by side.
What you are seeing at the camera level is 1080i which is interlaced video at 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second. What you are seeing when you play back your finished DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc is based on 720 x 480 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second (if standard 4:3) and 720 x 480 @ 29.97 interlaced frames per second accompanied by a 16:9 flag to stretch the 720 x 480 to 856 x 480 for display after encoding. Another factor is what the TV or computer player is doing to your interlaced video for viewing purposes - deinterlacing or not and with what method. Some TV's come with technology to enhance the DVD-VIDEO display. Most TVs larger than 32 to 42 in tend to show the differences between higher and lower resolution more readily.
Since you have interlaced video source, each frame has two fields, with either Upper or Lower Field First. Your source probably is interlaced video with Upper Field First. Consequently, in the project, you may have to adjust that to Lower Field First if your destination is DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc which is characterized by Field Order Lower Field First. Something to look into for the "better" aspects considerations.
Now if you decide to take your Timeline content to AVCHD format on DVD disc, note that the format of AVCHD format on DVD disc is different from that of the DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc (Instead of OpenDVD and VIDEO_TS Folder, you have the BDMV Folder). Your AVCHD on DVD disc will have resolution (Frame Size, Display Size) of 1920 x 1080 pixels. Under these circumstances, the capacity of the DVD disc can become a problem with larger projects. When you burn your Timeline content to AVCHD format on DVD disc, what is on the disc will be an 29.97 interlaced frames per second characterized by Upper Field First. So, if your interlaced source and the destination product both use Field Order Upper Field First, then no need for Field Options adjusts. However you do have one opportunity for a progressive frame rate for the AVCHD on DVD. It is not 29.97, rather 24. See Presets = H.264 1920 x 1080p NTSC Dolby in the AVCHD on DVD set up in Publish+Share/Disc AVCHD disc.
I have generated some very great looking DVD-VIDEO on DVD disc (standard and widescreen) and have been very pleased with the results and how my viewers received them. The thought is getting the best possible DVD-VIDEO on DVD and enjoying it without laboring on how it might have looked as Blu-ray or AVCHD if you do not have Blu-ray and do not have a player for AVCHD on DVD disc.
If you need clarification on any of the above, please let me know.
Thanks.
ATR
Add On...In post 3 marked in reply to me you wrote
"On a side note, however, I'm not sure I agree with the statement that going to standard def would lose a lot of video quality"
I did not write that in any of my posts to you. That is why I have gone through the detailed account to qualify that statement from wherever it came.

FCP ERROR when trying to convert variable frame rate Panasonic P2

Ok, yesterday I was able to convert variable frame rate footage so it rendered out nice slo mo's via DVCPRO HD Frame rate converter in FCP 6.0.4, it worked perfect. I tried it multiple times - So I know it can be done... Today however I created the same "easy setup" in FCP I used yesterday, and it wont work?
it comes up with the error:
"An error occurred during processing, unable to conform source media FCP" is there some setting that by default switches"
has anyone heard of this happening? it seems like a program error... but I could be wrong... I haven't been able to figure it out on my own.
does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks!
A

Lance,
Sounds like you have done a very thorough job of tracking down your problem and a temporary solution. Just one question. Is the footage from the HDX-900 that you say...
Lance Moody wrote:
Since some footage from the HDX-900 was shot at 60FPS for conversion to 24FPS as slo-mo, I then attempted to use the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate converter to accomplish this.
flagged in camera as being 24fps or are you just trying to convert it after the fact?
o| TonyTony |o

I want to step through a .mov file frame-by-frame looking at geometry of an aircraft in the video to establish the rotational speed of the propeller. This should be fairly straightforwaHow to find the frame exposure time of a variable frame rate mov file

I want to step through a .mov file frame-by-frame looking at geometry of an aircraft in the video to establish the rotational speed of the propeller. This should be fairly straightforward by looking at how much the propeller moves between each frame and using the exposure time of each frame.
However the .mov file is from an iPhone 4S and looking at the details, has a variable frame rate. What I need to know is the duration that each frame is displayed for in order to do my analysis. Does anyone know how to find out this information?

I want to step through a .mov file frame-by-frame looking at geometry of an aircraft in the video to establish the rotational speed of the propeller. This should be fairly straightforward by looking at how much the propeller moves between each frame and using the exposure time of each frame.
However the .mov file is from an iPhone 4S and looking at the details, has a variable frame rate. What I need to know is the duration that each frame is displayed for in order to do my analysis. Does anyone know how to find out this information?

Mixed frame rate video clips on the same Blu-ray disc

Before I go into the detail, this actually isn’t an issue for me, but more of a finding the answer to a different question, so please bear with me.
To explain: I live in the UK, and I’m forever challenged by the different native video frame rates imposed by the PAL and NTSC standards. Every consumer camcorder I’ve ever seen only produces HD output (1920 x 1080) at either 50 fields/second interlaced, or 25 (sometimes 50) frames/second progressive. Some action cameras (Go Pro) I possess allow me to record at 30fps progressive, in full HD, which for fast movement is simply better. This in itself is not really a problem, but I use other software (all USA sourced) for video production whose best results are only visible when the finished HD output is 1080/60i.
Having mixed frame rate video is a real problem for the DVD standard, but no so much for Blu-ray. Indeed Adobe Encore neatly gets around this problem, so I can actually author a Blu-ray disc which contains full HD video clips that may be either 50i or 60i. Both types of video exist on the same disc, and when played back through a Blu-ray player/TV combination, the resultant video clips are shown correctly. Player and TV switch seamlessly to the correct setting to handle the video content. So, I have a solution to my problem, but at the same time, a question I can’t find an answer to, which is this:
Does the Blu-ray specification allow video clips of different native frame rates (i.e. 25fps and 30fps) assuming the resolution is the same, to co-exist on the same Blu-ray disc as a supported feature?
It works, but I can’t find one shred of information that says what I’m doing is supported.
Comments are most welcome.
Regards,
Steve

Stan Jones wrote:
Encore requires you to specify the project type as PAL or NTSC (whether you start it as Bluray or DVD), and does not allow you to change it later. Also, if you try to create a transcode type for PAL in an NTSC project you cannot get to the 25 fps setting (and therefore, I think, cannot do it).
But if you import a Bluray legal 25i file to an NTSC project, it is happily added.
DVD player conventional wisdom is that PAL players handle NTSC disks, but NTSC players do not generally handle PAL disks. I never quite understood why the TVs were not more of the issue. Do Bluray players even differentiate between PAL and NTSC?
Even if the player will handle PAL, the TV may well not do so - so there is more going on.
NTSC uses (generally) 60Hz systems whereas PAL is 50Hz hence the problem.
Do not try to mix standards as it will not be allowed - however, multiple frame rates are allowed as long as they are within spec for that TV standard.
They are best avoided though - otherwise you run a very real chance of serious asset truncation as the TV display switches between different resolutions & frame rates.

Why doesn't apple tv appear when playing video in safari?

Hi Guys:
     I just bought an apple tv. I am able to use the mirroring function with no problem, and I can see the apple tv in the "Airplay" menu.
     But When i play a video in safari(mirroring turned off), I can not see my apple TV in the "AirPlay" menu.
      So my question is : why doesn't apple tv appear when playing video in safari?
Does the same thing happen to you guys??
btw, I just dont want to mirroring when play a video in safari, that's why i'm asking this question
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks!

Experiencing the same issue. Everything used to just work. I'm up to date on *everything* and it's all apple devices (airport extreme, appletv, 2 macbook pro lion, iphone4s, ipad).
My gut says it's the AppleTV since it happens from both laptops that have itunes.
Let me know if you find a fix.

Variable Frame Rate

If I have clips that were recorded at different frame rates, say 24fps and 60fps, and I put them in the same video project, how does PE11 handle this? Will it cause issues or lower the quality?

AudreyRose2012
Slow motion for your 1080p60 will be achieved in either of three ways in Expert workspace (project preset no part of this):
a. Interpret Footage. Frame Rate section of the Interpret Footage dialog. Right click file in Project Assets, select Interpret Footage, and, in Frame Rate section, dot Assume this frame rate, and type in your wanted frame rate)
b. Time Stretch. Set Duration for less than 100%. This will increase the length of the video and apply a slow motion effect.
c. Time Remapping.
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-elements-11/time-remapping-with-adobe-premiere-el ements-11/
Until proven otherwise, I would use the
NTSC AVCHD AVCHD 1080p60 project preset
and apply Interpret Footage to that video for which you want a slow motion effect. You could also consider Time Remapping feature with or without Frame Blend option that is built into Time Remapping.
I never use the frame rate same as source for exporting. It typically does it own thing under those circumstance and that is not always the frame rate that should have been. I would take the time to specify the frame rate in export along with all the rest of the export settings.
If you are going to upload your Expert workspace Timeline to Vimeo, I would try the settings suggested by SG...that is, Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD with Presets = VimeoHD. The default there is 1280 x 720, so I would customize the setting under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of that preset to give 1920 x 1080. Set the Level and Profile first, so that you can type in the 1920 x 1080 values. Then you would upload the AVCHD.mp4 file that you obtain and upload it to Vimeo at the Vimeo web site.
In the following Export Settings dialog for that export. I have the frame rate set for 59.94 progressive frames per second. Depending on your project plan, you can reset that to your preference
If you decide to upload your Expert workspace Timeline to Vimeo via the program's Publish+Share/Online/Vimeo with Presets = VimeoHD, you cannot change the 1280 x 720 resolution there.
Please review all comments and let SG know of your progress.
Thanks.
ATR

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.flac is an extension that is very useful to the majority of my coworkers as well as myself. It's quite a disappointment to see that Premiere Pro, even to this date, doesn't support the .flac extension. Does anybody know why this is or if support will be added soon?

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Hi markgern,
It should get recognized.
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Why doesn't premiere audio link to edit in Audition?

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Why doesn't Premiere Pro use my GPU when rendering?

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Just kind of upsetting that my investment has gone to waste. Thanks!

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