ProRes 4444 assets not compositing properly on export

Hey there!
Just trying Premiere out on my first project since jumping ship from FCP. All great thus far, but I'm having an issue with some ProRes assets which have an alpha channel. They're some animated titles which were made in AE, which are supposed to sit on top of the live action footage. The live action footage is P2 (DVCPro HD), and so are the sequence settings. On playback the ProRes titles composite fine over the P2 footage, but when I hit stop, the alpha areas in the titles show black instead of showing the underlying image. On export to H264 too, the clips do not composite together correctly; the titles have black under them instead of the underlying P2 footage.
Anyone shed any light on why it would work fine on preview playback but fail when the playhead is stopped and, more importantly, on export?
Thanks!
sCam

Hey,
Thanks for your reply. I guess I could do, but it's not really addressing the actual issue. There may be other instances in the future where we might want to use assets with an alpha channel where dynamic link would not be possible. It would be good to know how this can be addressed, or if there is some inherant problem with Premiere's compositing system.
Cheers, sCam

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I Think (but dont know) that I have found an explanation to this problem.
It has to do with colorsync on OS X (cant talk windows as I dont use that)
Scenario
1) Encode any non-ProRes 4444-source to ProRes 4444 using Compressor(Only encoder able to provide accurate result)
2) Be sure so DISABLE - Final Cut Studio color compatibility in the QT7 Player Preferences
3) Open source.MOV and new output.MOV in Quicktime7 -> Set view of both to half size (So you have overview) and place them next to each other
They should look/be identical
sometimes placing them next to each other will lead you to believe that they are different. If so, place them on top of each other and flip back and forth via the Window menu to make sure that both movies are indeed identical-looking.
4) Open OS X System Preferences
5) Click 'Displays' and select the color tab
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Create new AE Project and make sure that your Project is set to NOT color-manage your workflow
6) Create new AE composition and drag the Compressor-created ProRes 4444.MOV into it.
7) Add to render queue and select the ProRes 4444 as output.
8) Render out.
9) Open Compressor-created ProRes 4444.MOV and new AE-created ProRes 4444.MOV in Quicktime7 -> Set view of both to half size (So you have overview) and place them next to each other
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11) Open OS X System Preferences (in case you closed it)
12) Click 'Displays' and select the color tab
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And that even though color-mangement has been turned off.
Turning color-managemen ON will have no different effect that leaving it off. The AE created movie(Color Management set to OFF) WILL not allow being color synced in OS X.
The Expected behavior IS:
1) when color management is set to OFF in the AE project settings and output module that the AE-Created movie would adapt to any color-profile change made within the OS X System Preference, COLOR Panel.
2) when color management is set to ON in the AE project settings and output module that the AE-Created movie would NOT adapt to any color-profile change made within the OS X System Preference, COLOR Panel.
As of NOW... There are no differences between above.
I hope this helps to solve this nuisance !!!
If I have missed something VERY obvious then please disregard my post and tell me what I seeing incorrectly !!!
PS - ON my computer - this last part of my post looks ridiculously small and that even though I have done NO font editing.
I find that posting and editing in this forum is as hard as getting Adobe products to encode correctly

I really need some After Effects Logic regarding ProRes 4444

Regardinf ProRes 4444
I cant unterstand why it is so difficult to make this work properly.
It used to be that we could NOT select Trillions of Colors because they were grayed out.
Thus giving us 16 Bit per channel...
Then we had a fix althoug manual at first, we could then select 16 bit per channel...
Now we have a NEW problem.... And it is exactly opposite.
Now -- We cannot select Millions of colors thus 8 bit per channel.
I have a project in 8 Bit and I want to render it to ProRes 4444 but NOT in 16 bit per channel but with 8 bit per channel.
I cant do that as the Millions of colors (and Millions of Colors+) are grayed out...
I have a really hard time understanding this never ending problem. How hard can it be... Or am I the one totally missing the obvious...
BTW - Apples Compressor and Quicktime 7, correctly outputs 8 bit per channel incl. Alpha thus achieving 32 Bit (8 bit per channel)
Why cant after effects...
To the developers in case you are here ,-)
If the AE project is 8 bit per channel we should be able to render 8 bit per channel ProRes4444
If the AE project is 16 bit per channel we should be able to render 16 bit per channel ProRes4444
Thanks for any clarification

Rick Gerard wrote:
Apple Pro Rez 444 is a 12 bit codec. It always encodes at 12 bit. You can't force Pro-Rez 4444 to any other bit depth. The behavior in CS5.5 is correct and makes sense.
FYI, ProRez 422 HQ is a 10 bit codec. It won't encode at anything else. Changing the color depth settings in the Output Module won't change the way the codec works.
Here's a link to the ProRez white paper.
Hi Rick,
thanks for chiming in.
I have already read that paper many times. Perhaps I am just not smart enough.
When you say that it always encodes in 12bit... Does that mean that if I have a 16 Bit per channel Image Sequence that it would truncate the 4 upper bits ?
Here is the description of Apple's Compressor ProRes 4444 Setting. Indicating 32 bit which would be 8 bit per channel alpha included...
Be really nice if you could explaing that to me
Name: Apple ProRes 4444
Description: QuickTime movie with Apple ProRes 4444 (with Alpha) and audio pass-through
File Extension: mov
Estimated size: unknown
Audio: multi-track pass-through
Video Encoder
          Width: (100% of source)
          Height: (100% of source)
          Pixel aspect ratio: Default
          Crop: None
          Padding: None
          Frame rate: (100% of source)
          Frame Controls: Automatically selected: Off
          Codec Type: Apple ProRes 4444
          Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: Off
          Automatic gamma correction
Progressive
          Pixel depth: 32
          Spatial quality: 75
          Min. Spatial quality: 0
          Temporal quality: 0
          Min. temporal quality: 0
Compatible with Mac

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Dan,
if you are ever in Hamburg, Germany. Let me know and the brews are on ME.
In my testing madness I exported a movie WITH NO ALPHA.... That is the reason why I was NOT seeing any alpha options on import.
I dup'ed the vid layer and moved it about and set the opacity to 50... Then exported. And imported. And THERE they were ....
LE ALPHA OPTIONS....
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M.

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Hi,
Thanks for responding and getting back to me guys
@ Fuzzy...Trust me... I didn't think it would work...it didn't make sense to me either but I misunderstood Gerry...he doesn't know that I am operating exclusively on a PC using only PC based software...I don't have a MAC.
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I have had FPCX since Sept, first used Oct. I have not had one 'movie' export properly, first time since using FPCX. Audio stops completely at some point and does not re-start. Any ideas, folks?

I have had FPCX since Sept, first used Oct. I have not had one 'movie' export properly, first time since using FPCX. Audio stops completely at some point and does not re-start. Any ideas, folks?

First, I suggest you limit the subject line of your question to a few words which will help someone identify the problem you are encountering. Putting the entire question there looks as though you are shouting.
It would help anyone to identify your problem if you were to say what video codec (file format) you are using, and describe the method you are using in your attempts to export it.
You could also list any relevant error messages you encounter.
What version of FCP X are you using?
All these things will make it easier for people to help you.
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http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/software/

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Hi:
Quicktimes I render out of After Effects CS 5 using the ProRes 4444 codec are tagged as having an alpha channel even though my settings in the Output Module are RGB and Trillions of Colors. NOT RGB + Alpha and Trillions of Colors+. It doesn't matter whether my project is 8 bit or 16 bit.
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This appears to be the opposite of the problem most have been having, which is AE won't generate an alpha in ProRes 4444 without moving codecs and other nonsense.
The reason this is a problem is because when I bring these Quicktimes with faux alphas into FCP for editing I can't export a reference movie. FCP rewrites the whole timeline.
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PR422HQ is way overkill for 99% of the video and film producers in the world. It's there for a specific elite of the entertainment biz, those who work in 4k on 64bit systems, I guess, that' ain't me! It's one of those "if you have to ask, you can't use it" sort of things. Anyone who uses the advanced features of the ProRes family knows why. That's the theory. In my practical experience over on the FCP forum at Apple, 99% of those using ProResHQ believe they are improving their original footage.
Apple ProRes 4444
The Apple ProRes 4444 codec offers the utmost possible quality for 4:4:4 sources and for workflows involving alpha channels. It includes the following features:
Full-resolution, mastering-quality 4:4:4:4 RGBA color (an online-quality codec for editing and finishing 4:4:4 material, such as that originating from Sony HDCAM SR or digital cinema cameras such as RED ONE, Thomson Viper FilmStream, and Panavision Genesis cameras). The R, G, and B channels are lightly compressed, with an emphasis on being perceptually indistinguishable from the original material.
Lossless alpha channel with real-time playback
High-quality solution for storing and exchanging motion graphics and composites
For 4:4:4 sources, a data rate that is roughly 50 percent higher than the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
Direct encoding of, and decoding to, RGB pixel formats
Support for any resolution, including SD, HD, 2K, 4K, and other resolutions
A Gamma Correction setting in the codec’s advanced compression settings pane, which allows you to disable the 1.8 to 2.2 gamma adjustment that can occur if RGB material at 2.2 gamma is misinterpreted as 1.8. This setting is also available with the Apple ProRes 422 codec.
Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
The Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) codec offers the utmost possible quality for 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 sources (without an alpha channel) and provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 220 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422
Apple ProRes 422
The Apple ProRes 422 codec provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 145 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
The Apple ProRes 422 (LT) codec provides the following:
Roughly 70 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (thus, smaller file sizes than Apple ProRes 422)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)
Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)
The Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) codec is intended for use in offline workflows and provides the following:
Roughly 30 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422
High-quality offline editing at the original frame size, frame rate, and aspect ratio
High-quality edit proxy for Final Cut Server
The Apple ProRes family of codecs provides these advantages:
Quality indistinguishable from that of the most pristine sources: Maintains superb quality even after multiple encoding/decoding generations.
Mastering-quality 4:4:4:4 RGBA: Provides a lossless alpha channel with real-time playback (Apple ProRes 4444 only). Mastering-quality 4:4:4 Y′CBCRcolor and 4:2:2 Y′CBCR color are also available.
The quality of uncompressed HD at data and storage rates lower than those of uncompressed SD: Provides real-time editing performance comparable to or better than that of any other HD codecs in Final Cut Pro.
Apple ProRes encoding at any frame size—SD, HD, 2K, 4K, or other: Apple ProRes codecs can also be encoded into nonstandard frame sizes, but nonstandard frame sizes are not supported for real-time playback in Final Cut Pro.
Variable bit rate (VBR) encoding: “Smart” encoding analyzes the image. Efficiency is increased because excess bits are not wasted on simple frames.
10-bit sample depth: Preserves subtle gradients of 10-bit sources (sunsets, graphics, and the like) with no visible banding artifacts. When you import a file using an Apple ProRes codec, you don’t have to first determine whether the file is an 8-bit or 10-bit file. Apple ProRes codecs always preserve the bit depth of your original source files.
I-frame–only (intraframe) encoding: Ensures consistent quality in every frame, with no artifacts from complex motion, and speeds up editing.
Fast encoding and decoding: Delivers high-quality, real-time playback and faster rendering times.
Equipment affordability: Because of low bit rates, you can edit more streams with more real-time effects on slower drives, or have more users accessing the same media over shared storage devices.
Workflow options for any video format that does not have native Final Cut Pro support: The Apple ProRes format provides an effective workflow for projects involving multiple acquisition formats when you want to standardize on a single codec.
Better rendering for native editing: Can be used to render long-GOP MPEG-2 formats (such as HDV and XDCAM HD) to speed up editing and avoid MPEG-2 reencoding artifacts before output.

Audio drop-out in FCPX with 1920x1080 & 2048x1240p @ 24p (codec Apple ProRes 4444 (Linear PCM))24p

Hi all...
I'm new to this forum.
Is there an audio issue (drop-outs) with FCPX (ver 10.1.2) for 1920x1080 24p, 1080p HD & 2048x1240 24p (2k) - note: films in FCPX are in codec Apple ProRes 4444, Linear PCM?
Very recently I've been working on a show reel and I have imported a file (short film) to snip out a section to add to the show reel.
I set the project to the film's settings i.e.. "set based on first video clip"...(1920x1080 24p, 1080p HD). When I play the film in FCPX the audio "hic-cups"..."dips to silence"..."drops-out" briefly (up to 0.5 secs in duration) and very frequently all the way through (approx 15 mins long film)...note: audio set is at stereo 48kHz. The audio monitors on the right hand side also show the dip taking place (if it's a long enough drop-out).
I also have a version of the film in 2048x1240 24p at 2k, again Stereo 48kHz...and this does the same audio "drop-out" all the way through. I'm unsure what other formats will create this problem i.e. higher or lower aspect ratios than those above.
Is this a software and/or OS issue? Or a hardware issue? Or both!?
About This iMac details:
iMac 27 inch: OS X ver 10.9.4
Processor: 3.5 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory: 32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB
Fusion Drive 3.12 TB
Final Cut Pro X was bought & installed with this iMac back in Feb 2014
FCPX version: 10.1.2
Note also: I used Compressor (ver 4.1.2) to convert the files (movies) above to Apple ProRes 422 HQ, Linear PCM and the issue disappeared - the audio and visuals played with no problems. All films play with no issue when opened in QT player. They are also fine when exporting from FCPX. The issue only occurs (as far as I can tell) within FCPX when editing or playing the audio there.
Has anyone encountered this problem?
Kind Regards,
Hakan

Hi Luis,
Thank you for that.
Seems like you have a point about the "hardware" issue. I'm unsure (new to it all) at what data rate my (er...wonderful) fusion drive provides FCPX for smooth playback - or where I can find that info on the iMac. Playing back movies in the 422 HQ codec seems to have no issues (when I converted the movie from 4444 HQ).
But playing the full 4444 HQ, the picture is smooth, but the audio has these drop-outs - even with "best performance" option ticked. Interesting that the audio suffers, not the picture in FCPX - so not sure what's going on there. I also read - perhaps - that to play a smooth ProRes 4444 HQ movie in FCPX the data rate should be min of 500 Mbs (based upon About Apple ProRes) for HD movies and up (i.e. 2k). ProRes 422 HQ needs a data rate of 220 Mbs - so that is my upper-limit to smooth video&audio playback with the current system I have, I guess.
Does anyone recommend a fast USB3 or Thunderbolt drive (500Mbs+) where I am able to run 4444HQ movies with no issues to picture or sound (away from the fusion drive)?
KR
H.

ProRes 4444 assets not compositing properly on export

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