Reverse Telecine from 29.97 to 23.98 without FLX file

I'm editing in 24p from 35mm film that was telecined to 24p HD D-5. From this, a DV Cam was created with 29.97 code and 23.98 code. It was digitized into FCP at 29.97, and reverse telecined using a FLX file and Cinema Tools.
Now I have mini DV video that was upconverted to 24p HD D-5; from this a DV Cam was created with 29.97 code and 23.98 code. However, because this was not telecined, I don't have a FLX file. How do I convert this tape to 23.98 so I can include it in my 24p project?
G-5.0.3 Mac OS X (10.3.7)

This issue was resolved working with a local film lab.

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Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine problem-24 vs. 23.98 + sound issue

Hello again folks,
Trying to figure this all out, and thanks in advance for your input; this forum is amazing and has been invaluable!
I've been studying the FCP and CT pdf manuals and lots of links/threads here in the forum to get the proper workflow, have tried it all out, and ran into some problems:
Need to convert--sorry--REVERSE TELECINE--my captured DV 24p (captured at 29.97) footage into 23.98fps to edit in 23.98. Copied some media files so as not to ruin the originals, chose them from project bins, and sent them to CT using FCP'S "Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" (super easy and feeling overconfident). When I checked the footage, two things were odd:
1) My new frame rate was at "24" not "23.98", which I believe I want to be working in in order to achieve my desired finished product (I'm sure I read this in the forum and links, does it matter?), and
2) for kicks, while there in Tools, I tried one clip with "Tools>Remove Advance Pulldown", which did result in the 23.98fps.
3) about 6 seconds into the new 23.98fps clip the sound disappears (I checked and the original clips have good sound throughout).
Any thoughts out there on this. Should I be reversing telecine from within CT (by importing clips), and not from FCP's easy Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
Any links or thoughts to clarify will be received with great admiration and thanks!
Greg
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8) FCP ver.5.1.2. and CT ver.3.1.2
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

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We are doing a reverse telecine from a 29.97 project to a 23.98 project. We are missing our Sound TC info from our browser after we reverse telecine. Any ideas why?

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I haven't a clue on how to begin searching for this.
I recently had a problem trying to get my Sony HZ5U 24p footage to true 24p instead of 30. It was causing big confusion in Color, blending frames together. Even though I placed the footage in a 24p sequence, it would just frames in unnecessary spots. And Reverse Telecine wouldn't work on footage imported by HDV - 720p24.
I was able to import to HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24, Reverse Telecine, and add the clips into a HDV- 720p24 sequence to get the resolution I need...
Except there's a problem.
Something isn't working when I reverse telecine.
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I "reversed" two clips which came out to 1:1 (I guess), no frames are duplicated. But a few of the clips I reversed came out to 2:2! There are two frames of the same then two others that are individual.
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My 24p fcp project is finished and I need to reverse telecine it to get rid of the ugly interlacing. How do I do this?
I've tried importing the movie into Cinema Tools and it keeps crashing. When I import the whole thing as a single clip (QT Movie), the Reverse Telecine button isn't available.
Also, why can't I import an mpeg-2 clip?
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Oh, and Mr. Gilman was saying that there will be interlacing no matter what if it's on DVD or Beta? Why is this?
It's what I was trying to tell you when I said If tape, you need the pulldown anyway. If DVD, the pulldown would be added by the player.
You have to understand where the interlacing is coming from. It is coming from the pulldown inserted to bring the fps from 24 to 30...
Google reveals these Pulldown explanation pages:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
http://home.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html
http://www.denecke.com/24pinfo.htm
here's a visual representation of 24P with pulldown added to be recorded on a 29.97 tape (this is how all feature films are broadcast on NTSC)
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Reverse Telecine Question (Cinema Tools)

Dear board members,
I have footage that was shot with Panasonic AG-HVX200 in 1080i60 (29.97fps), but with 24p function with a 2:3 pulldown. When I ingest it in FCP through Log and Transfer this footage (for some peculiar reason) shows up as 1080p30. I also need to remove pulldown to make it 24 (23,98) FPS.
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Thanks for the clip. That helps a lot.
This confirmed what I thought. You cannot Reverse Telecine something at 59.94. Cinema Tools is designed for footage telecined at 29.97...NTSC. It doesn't recognize 59.94 as NTSC because that is an HD frame rate, not an SD one. Cinema Tools was designed for SD.
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http://homepage.mac.com/comeback/.Movies/16mmTestCONV.mov
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Can a reverse telecine be performed on a finished edit? (By this, I mean an uncompressed export from FCP). Or can this only be done on the original clips?
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hello john,
if you work with the material as is (ie 29.97) and create a timeline, then export that and attempt a reverse telecine on it, you will find that cinema tools can't handle it. the cadence of the 3:2 field rhythms will change from clip to clip (unless you are crazy lucky). so you'll end up with some shots looking fine and others incorrectly converted.
best to do all material up front to edit in 23.98 timelines (or stay in 29.97, though this is a less favoured option for me).
R.

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So I've got 2 35mm films from the 80's that were transferred to HD (29.97) and then downconverted to DigiBeta and then captured to 8 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 and put on a drive for me. I'd like to remove the pulldown so that I can up the bitrate for maximum quality and maximum compatability. The cinema tools manual is unclear on how to figure out the cadence without a "window." Do I just keep trying different options in the reverse telecine path in cinematools until I get a clean output at 23.9 whatever it's supposed to be or is there some trick to this?

So I just kept trying different options til I got one that exported a clean 23.9 whatever quicktime. I took a section from the beginning for a couple of minutes so it included a section with a lot of horizontal motion. If anyone's interested, the settings were F1-F2, Conform to 23.98, Standard upper/lower, Fields DD, Style 1. Don't have a clue what Fields DD and Style 1 mean but I assume it has to do with the cadence of the 3:2 pulldown. Once I had a clean test section, I exported the whole film. It'll be interesting to see if the other film works with the same settings.

Reverse Telecine Nightmare - 16mm - Please help...

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Ugh - single field telecine.
I've never had to put single field video through Cinema Tools so I shouldn't be commenting - but I happen to know that another guy with a -similar- but different problem with single field telecine video in CT set his field dominance to F1-F2, and got usable video. Thought I'd mention it.
See here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1563046&tstart=13
Single field telecine isn't that complicated, it should be easy for CT to just remove the extra field from the sequence. Make sure you're starting on an A frame (or field, in your case, I suppose.)
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Reverse telecine of quicktime file

I am trying to reverse telecine a clip from 29.97 to 23.98
The clip is a flash animation converted to quicktime file.
Cinema tools wont open the file.
Any suggestions?

So I just kept trying different options til I got one that exported a clean 23.9 whatever quicktime. I took a section from the beginning for a couple of minutes so it included a section with a lot of horizontal motion. If anyone's interested, the settings were F1-F2, Conform to 23.98, Standard upper/lower, Fields DD, Style 1. Don't have a clue what Fields DD and Style 1 mean but I assume it has to do with the cadence of the 3:2 pulldown. Once I had a clean test section, I exported the whole film. It'll be interesting to see if the other film works with the same settings.

Reverse Telecine and Temporal Compression

I'm currently editing on a FCP (5.1.4) 23.97fps timeline and have some secondary footage from a canon HV20 that I'd like to use as well. It's already captured, and I want to use a reverse telecine transfer so I can import it to my timeline conformed at the proper rate.
I tried using cinema tools (3) to perform this; first by importing just one clip, but the "rev telecine..." button couldn't be selected, so I tried to batch reverse telecine the clip but was given the error message 'temporal compression'.
I am sure that the footage captured on the HV20 was with the 24 option, so I'm not sure why I'm having and issue. Any advice would be appreciated. The more step-by-step the better.
Thanks!

With Final Cut 5 you need to use Cinema tools after converting every clip to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). This is a manual process that you must repeat for each clip. Each time you start and stop the HV20 recording you get a separate clip so if you did a lot of starting and stopping you'll be busy for a while. I did this process as an exercise more than a year ago and was successful but I don't recall the details. I did a Google search for "reverse telecine HV20" and found this article http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/07/working-with-24p-from-canon-hv20.html
I think I found my method on the Canon HV20 forum http://dvinfo.net/conf/canon-vixia-hv40-hv30-hv20-hv10/ back then.
I'm not sure but I think you may need to recapture your footage using the 60i setting in Final Cut. I don't know what Final Cut does to 60i footage captured using the 23.98 setting. You might just be able to change the setting to 29.97 on the captured clips. Worth a try maybe.
Good luck.

Reverse Telecine 24fps Error?!?

Hi,
We've troubleshot this all ways possible, it seems, so here goes:
Our show is downconverting HD to 29.97; we're editing in 23.98 sequences. The other assistant has been able to successfully Reverse Telecine the footage (which we've batch-captured from a DVCam deck) from 29.97 to 23.98. On my system, however, when I choose the Reverse Telecine option in FCP 5.1.1, the footage ends up as 24 fps. IE, in the Video Rate column, it shows up as 24 fps.
It doesn't matter which system the footage has been captured on; on his system, if he's done the RT, then it shows up correctly as 23.98. If I RT on my system, it shows up as 24. (And any footage which he has RTed on his system correctly imports onto my system at 23.98.)
Any ideas?
We've played around with (seemingly) all the sequence/capture presets and nothing affects the above result. Otherwise, all our settings - including Cinema Tools - are set the same.
Any advice would be most helpful.
-Chris

Hi,
Thanks for your replies. We just discovered it today - there's a hidden preference in Cinema Tools where you can choose to conform to 24 or 23.98 fps; this preference is not available in Final Cut.
What you have to do is: in Cinema Tools, go to File > Open Clip, which will bring up a clip and options for Reverse-Telecine and Conform. Then, if you click on the Conform option, the next window will give you the ability to change the fps for conforming. Change to 23.98. Even if you Cancel without RTing the clip, the option will remain as whichever you selected. Then close and reopen Cinema Tools and you can Batch RT from Cinema Tools or FCP correctly.
Note that if you change the fps in the Rev Telecine option previous, the changed fps will not remain as default. Also note that you have to capture a clip (or have a movie file somewhere on the drive) in order to be able to access these preferences.
Much grief from some lousy program design.
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Reverse Telecine from 29.97 to 23.98 without FLX file

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