10 bit render

I've just completed a 09'00" film made up of still jpeg images (zooming, panning etc) and graphics, which is destined to be put onto a DVD for showing on a domestic plasma TV.
Throughout the edit I have been working on a DV Pal timeline but now, because of the high res jpeg source images, I have been advised to upgrade the sequence to 10 bit 4.2.2 to ensure as high quality source QT film as possible to go into Compressor to make the mpeg2 for the DVD.
I have done this succesfully for another, shorter (02'30" if that is at all relevant) film made up of similar jpegs and graphics, but whenever I try to re-render the DV sequence for the longer film up to 10 bit 4.2.2, it stops about half way through with the error message:
"Codec not found. You may be using a compression type without the corresponding hardware card"
If anyone could suggest what's going on and how to fix it, I would be grateful.
Cheers,
Hamish
Intel iMac FCP 5.1.2 Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Dear Jerry,
Thank you for your reply.
But.. can I not just change the Seq Settings from DV Pal to 10 bit 4.22 then blow the renders by turning off the view icon on the timeline? And then when I re-render it will all be 10 bit?
Also, I've just looked into the source stills a bit more and the one the render stops on is a .tif not a .jpeg. Would that make a difference do you think? Should all be well if I convert the .tif to .jpeg in graphic converter or Photoshop and then reconnect the media to the offending still?
Cheers,
Hamish

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Unless you have a 10bit monitor (rare and very expensive) you can not see the difference as your monitor is 8 bit.
10 bit is useful for compositing and color grading. Otherwise, 8 bit it fine for everything else.
x

Maximum Bit Depth /Maximum Render Quality Questions

Maximum Bit Depth
If my project contains high-bit-depth assets generated by high-definition camcorders, I was told to select Maximum Bit Depth because Adobe Premiere Pro uses all the color information in these assets when processing effects or generating preview files. I'm capturing HDV using the Matrox RTX-2 Hardware in Matrox AVI format.
When I finally export my project using Adobe Media Encoder CS4, will selecting Maximum Bit Depth provide better color resolution once I post to Blu-ray format?
Maximum Render Quality
I was told that by using Maximum Render Quality, I maintain sharp detail when scaling from large formats to smaller formats, or from high-definition to standard-definition formats as well as maximizes the quality of motion in rendered clips and sequences. It also renders moving assets more sharply. It's my understanding that at maximum quality, rendering takes more time, and uses more RAM than at the default normal quality. I'm running Vista 64 Bit with 8 GIGs of RAM so I'm hoping to take advantage of this feature.
Will this also help to improve better resolution when I finally export my project using Adobe Media Encoder CS4 and post to Blu-ray format?
Does it look like I have the specs to handle Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality when creating a new HDV project with the support of the Matrox RTX 2 Hardware capturing in Matrox AVI format? See Below Specs.
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Case: Coolmaster-830
Op System: Vista Ultima 64 Bit
Edit Suite: Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium Line Upgrade
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Just some details that i find useful on maximum render depth
You really need it even with 8bit source files, when using heavy grading/multiple curves/vignettes. If after grading you see banding, go to sequence > sequence settings from the top menu and check "maximum bit depth (ignore the performance popup), then check again your preview (it will change in a second) to see if banding is still present in 32bit mode. If no banding, you must check it when exporting, if banding is still there, change your grading, then uncheck it to continue with editing.
Unfortunately Maximum bit depth exporting is extremely time-consuming, but can really SAVE YOUR DAY when facing artifacts after heavy grading, by completely or almost completely eliminating banding and other unwanted color distortions.
Use it only for either small previews or the really final output.
Best Regards.

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Bit Depth and Render Quality

When you finally export media to some sort of media format via the encoder does the projects preview Bit Depth and Render Quality settings affect the output file?
I know there is "Use Preview files" setting in the media exporter dialogue but I just want to be sure of what I am doing.

Jeff's response is my perspective, as well, which is both backed up by my own tests and the official Adobe word.
Exhibit A: My Tests
That is DV footage with a title superimposed over it in a DV sequence, with a Gaussian blur effect (the Premiere accelerated one) applied to the title; all samples are from that sequence exported back to DV. This was to show the relative differences of processing between software and hardware MPE, Premiere export and AME queueing, and the effect of the Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality options on export (not the sequence settings; those have no bearing on export).
The "blooming" evident in the GPU exports is due to hardware MPE's linear color processing. I think it's ugly, but that's not the point here. Further down the line, you can see the effect of Maximum Bit Depth (and MRQ) on both software MPE and hardware MPE. I assume you can see the difference between the Maximum Bit Depth-enabled export and the one without. Bear in mind that this is 8-bit DV footage composited and "effected" and exported back to 8-bit DV. I don't understand what your "padding with zeroes" and larger file size argument is motivated by--my source files and destination files are the same size due to the DV codec--but it's plainly clear that Maximum Bit Depth has a significant impact on output quality. Similar results would likely be evident if I used any of the other 32-bit enabled effects; many of the color correction filters are 32-bit, and should exhibit less banding, even on something 8-bit like DV.
Exhibit B: The Adobe Word
This is extracted from Karl Soule's blog post, Understanding Color Processing: 8-bit, 10-bit, 32-bit, and more. This section comes from Adobe engineer Steve Hoeg:
1. A DV file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DV without the max bit depth flag. We
will import the 8-bit DV file, apply the blur to get an 8-bit frame,
apply the color corrector to the 8-bit frame to get another 8-bit frame,
then write DV at 8-bit.
2. A DV file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DV with the max bit depth flag. We
will import the 8-bit DV file, apply the blur to get an 32-bit frame,
apply the color corrector to the 32-bit frame to get another 32-bit
frame, then write DV at 8-bit. The color corrector working on the 32-bit
blurred frame will be higher quality then the previous example.
3. A DV file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DPX with the max bit depth flag. We
will import the 8-bit DV file, apply the blur to get an 32-bit frame,
apply the color corrector to the 32-bit frame to get another 32-bit
frame, then write DPX at 10-bit. This will be still higher quality
because the final output format supports greater precision.
4. A DPX file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DPX without the max bit depth flag.
We will clamp 10-bit DPX file to 8-bits, apply the blur to get an 8-bit
frame, apply the color corrector to the 8-bit frame to get another
8-bit frame, then write 10-bit DPX from 8-bit data.
5. A DPX file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DPX with the max bit depth flag.
We will import the 10-bit DPX file, apply the blur to get an 32-bit
frame, apply the color corrector to the 32-bit frame to get another
32-bit frame, then write DPX at 10-bit. This will retain full precision through the whole pipeline.
6. A title with a gradient and a blur on a 8-bit monitor. This will display in 8-bit, may show banding.
7. A title with a gradient and a blur on a 10-bit monitor
(with hardware acceleration enabled.) This will render the blur in
32-bit, then display at 10-bit. The gradient should be smooth.
Bullet #2 is pretty much what my tests reveal.
I think the Premiere Pro Help Docs get this wrong, however:
High-bit-depth effects
Premiere Pro includes some video effects and transitions
that support high-bit-depth processing. When applied to high-bit-depth
assets, such as v210-format video and 16-bit-per-channel (bpc) Photoshop
files, these effects can be rendered with 32bpc pixels. The result
is better color resolution and smoother color gradients with these
assets than would be possible with the earlier standard 8 bit per
channel pixels. A 32-bpc badge appears
to the right of the effect name in the Effects panel for each high-bit-depth
effect.
I added the emphasis; it should be obvious after my tests and the quote from Steve Hoeg that this is clearly not the case. These 32-bit effects can be added to 8-bit assets, and if the Maximum Bit Depth flag is checked on export, those 32-bit effects are processed as 32-bit, regardless of the destination format of the export. Rendering and export/compression are two different processes altogether, and that's why using the Maximum Bit Depth option has far more impact than "padding with zeroes." You've made this claim repeatedly, and I believe it to be false.
Your witness...

Turning on Render at Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality crashes render every time

I've tried a few times to render an H264 version of my Red media project with Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality. Premiere crashes every time. I have GPUs enabled. Are people using these settings with Red media and successfully rendering?

To answer your specific question did you see the tooltip?
I beleive it allows for 32-bit processing (16-bit if unchecked). Per the project settings help file at http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-elements/using/project-settings-presets.html
Maximum Bit Depth
Allows Premiere Elements to use up to 32‑bit processing, even if the project uses a lower bit depth. Selecting this option increases precision but decreases performance.
The help file for export is somewhat less informative about what it actually does but does point out that it is the color bit depth - http://helpx.adobe.com/media-encoder/using/encode-export-video-audio.html
(Optional) Select Use Maximum Render Quality or Render At Maximum Bit Depth. Note: Rendering at a higher color bit depth requires more RAM and slows rendering substantially.
In practice the simplest suggestion is to export twice - once with / once without the setting and compare the time taken and perceived quality.
Cheers,
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children
If this post or another user's post resolves the original issue, please mark the posts as correct and/or helpful accordingly. This helps other users with similar trouble get answers to their questions quicker. Thanks.

Maximum bit depth-maximum render quality when dynamic linking

Hi
A bit confused by the use of Maximum bit depth and Maximum render quality as used both in Sequence Settings and also as options when rendering in AME.
1 Do you need to explicitly enable these switches in the sequence for best quality or, do you simply need to switch them on in AME when you render in Media Encoder?
2 When dynamic linking to After Effects, when should you use an 8 bit vs 16 or 32 bit working space, and, how does this bit depth interact with the maximum bit depth, maximum render quality in PPro?

Hi jbach2,
I understand your confusion. I'm like that most of the time I'm working. *chuckle* The two settings you mentioned are two completely different parameters affecting (or is it effecting) your video. You do not need to enable them within the sequence itself unless you want to preview video on you program monitor at the highest quality. I personally don't recommend it, as it's a tremendous resource hog, (the program even warns you when you try to click them) and unessecary for improving final output. Again, do not enable these options in your sequence settings if you are only wanting a high quality export. Doing so will greatly reduce your editing performance unless you have a high-end system. ...and even then I don't think its worth it unless you're editing on a huge screen with a Director who wants to see everything at a maximum quality during the edit process.
Keeping it simple...
Resizing your final output video? Use Maximum bit depth.
Starting or working with high bitdepth sources? Use Max Bit Depth.
When/where do I enable these? In the AME only. ^_^
Why?:
Enabling the Max bit and Max render only needs to be done when you are exporting. They both serve different functions.
Max Render aids in the scaling/conversion process only. My understanding is that you never need to enable the Max Render Quality (MRQ) unless you are exporting in a format/pixel ratio different from your original video. For example, when rendering a 1080p timeline out to a 480p file format, you'll want to use MRQ to ensure the best scaling with the least amount of artifacts and aliasing. If you're exporting at the same size you're working with, DON'T enable MRQ. It will just cost you time and CPU. Its only function is to do a high quality resizing of your work.
Maximum bit depth increases the color depth that your video is working with and rendering to. If you're working with video that has low color depth, then I don't believe it will matter. However, if you're working with 32 bit color on your timeline in PPro and/or After Effects, using lots of graphics, high contrast values, or color gradients, you may want to enable this option. It ultimately depends on the color depth of your source material.
The same applies to After Effects.
Create something in AE like a nice color gradient. Now switch the same project between 8,16,32 bit depth, and you will see a noticable difference in how the bit depth effects your colors and the smoothness of the gradient.
Bit depth effects how different plugins/effects change your overall image. Higher depth means more colors to work with (and incidentally, more cpu you need)
Just remember that "DEPTH" determines how many colors you can "fill your bucket with" and "QUALITY" is just that, the quality of your "resize".
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/understanding_color_processing.html
Check out this adobe blog for more info on color depth ^_^ Hope that helps!
----a lil excerpt from the blog i linked to above---
Now, 8-bit, 10-bit, and 12-bit color are the industry standards for recording color in a device. The vast majority of cameras use 8-bits for color. If your camera doesn’t mention the color bit depth, it’s using 8-bits per channel. Higher-end cameras use 10-bit, and they make a big deal about using “10-bit precision” in their literature. Only a select few cameras use 12-bits, like the digital cinema camera, the RED ONE.
Software like After Effects and Premiere Pro processes color images using color precision of 8-bits, 16-bits, and a special color bit depth called 32-bit floating point. You’ve probably seen these color modes in After Effects, and you’ve seen the new “32″ icons on some of the effects in Premiere Pro CS5.
jbach2 wrote:
Hi
A bit confused by the use of Maximum bit depth and Maximum render quality as used both in Sequence Settings and also as options when rendering in AME.
1 Do you need to explicitly enable these switches in the sequence for best quality or, do you simply need to switch them on in AME when you render in Media Encoder?
2 When dynamic linking to After Effects, when should you use an 8 bit vs 16 or 32 bit working space, and, how does this bit depth interact with the maximum bit depth, maximum render quality in PPro?
Message was edited by: SnJK

16 bit linear footage bleached out after render

hey there,
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Footage looks and sounds great (sync is good) in iMovie 6 ... such as trying the same footage freshly inported into Final Cut Exp just to see if that would effect the outcome...nada!
Since you posted in the iMovie '08 area, specifically mention importing to both iMovie '06 and Final Cut, and specifically state the iMovie '06 sync was "good" when imported/captured, my initial assumption would be that you problem is not one of source "sampling." Basically, if the DV content is "in sync" on the camera and "in sync" when captured by one or more editors, then it would appear that the camcorder and import modules are both working correctly as this is when you should first see any sampling problem show up.
Since you indicate the final product -- the DVD -- is out of sync, then I would look at the intermediate files next to see if they are out of sync. If so, then you have a problem in the file output phase of your work flow and if not, then the problem is likely in the conversion/muxing of content in iDVD which could be the result of a bad install, update, or settings in applications or core system. Depending on your work flow, I would try opening either the "Media Browser", "Shared iDVD", or exported file in the QT Player and see if it displays the same synchronization problem as the final DVD. If not, would normally assume the data being received by iDVD is good which, as I indicated above, would point to a problem in converting the data to MPEG-2 and "muxing" it properly with the linear PCM (AIFF) converted audio. Have you tried inspecting the VOB file info in an application like VLC or MPEG Streamclip to see if anything is obviously askew or tried burning the DVD with an alternative application like Toast?

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