Canon HV20 with 24p

I have FCP ver 5.0.4, and am trying to edit a 24p sequence shot with a Canon HV20. I have gone through and done the reverse telecine with my clip, and successfully gotten my 1080i60 clip off the tape and it's now 1080-24p. In my sequence settings I changed the frame rate to 24. But my clip still shows it needs rendering when I put it in the timeline.
Do I need to upgrade my version of FCP to do this properly to 5.1.x? Why does it still need to render my 24p clip in my 24p sequence?
Thanks

the 24p mode on ur camera isn't true 24p so that's why final cut doesn't like it in a real 24p sequence. try dropping it in a 60i sequence, because that is technically what your stuff is. footage from mini dv tapes should go into a 60i sequence. even though you shot it 24p and it LOOKS 24p....it's still 60i respectively.
Message was edited by: bkvideography

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Canon HV20 24p: 3rd party solution?

I'm looking hard at buying a Canon HV20 for 24p work and using with FCE, which I'd be upgrading from an old version (and learning how to use, but that's another story LOL!).
It's my understanding that FCE can't edit the HV20's 24p-format output. I'm wondering if there are third-party fixes for this, either a standalone converter of some kind or a plug-in. It's my understanding that, failing this, I could activate a Windows partition on my new iMac and work with Windows software to edit the 24p stuff, but that is something I'd really like to avoid.

Here are two links that are on the sight mentioned above
60i to 24p workflow for Mac/Final Cut Pro
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=1840
Easy Mac Workflow for 720p24 h.264 output
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1967
24p versus 25p FCP workflow sight may answer the real 24p question for those who understand such thing - I really don't.
http://allantépper.biz/sub5k/Stupid-Smart.html
Hope this helps

What are the settings for capturing video from Canon HV20

Hi All,
I want to capture video from Canon HV20 with Premiere Elements 11. What kind of settings should I use to capture the video with full information?
Here is what I did:
1) According the manual, I went to Capture settings panel (Edit > Project Settings > Capture) and selected HDV as capture format, because my video is at high definition.
2) In addition, I checked "Capture to Timeline" and "Split Scenes by cotent".
Are these settings enough?
Thanks.

HV20user
Sounds reasonable, using Add Media/HDV Camcorder, but....
Have you reviewed the Adobe write up on Premiere Elements 11 DV and HDV capture firewire into it.
http://help.adobe.com/fr_FR/premiereelements/using/WS5CDA0F91-60F1-4b79-ABF6-E9E75F498DB2. html#WS2AF26FB5-4C63-4c46-9DB3-7249558F6528
The mention of Get Media instead of Add Media makes me wonder if the video's instructor was demo'ing from Premiere Elements 10, but...
Major factors have always included having Premiere Elements project preset set correctly to correspond to your camera settings...For HDV data capture firewire...
NTSC HDV HDV 1080p30 or PAL HDV HDV 1080p25 depending on if you are targeting a NTSC or PAL area where frame rates are typically a consideration.
I had not done any DV or HDV data capture firewire into Premiere Elements. But, Premiere Elements 11's take over of the project preset setting would encourage me to encourage you to verify your project settings before the capture.
There are probably many more, but the following is online discussion of one Canon HV20 issue
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/316970-video-capture-problems-HV20-camcorder-is-control led-but-no-video-capture
If you experience difficulty with the HDV capture fireware into Premiere Elements 11, you might consider what some others have done in this regard, that is, use HDVSplit for the capture firewire and then import the split (.m2t) clips "Add Media" into Premiere Elements 11 with the appropriate HDV HDV 1080p (1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9) project preset.
Please update us on your progress when you get a chance.
Thanks.
ATR

Canon HV20 24P HDV workflow, Some things with FCP and Quicktime are ODD.

Canon HV20, 24P, HDV, CMOS sensor...
First, I do hope and pray that the FCP dudes are making this work native at HDV 24p -- great!
But until then, there's a workflow (see below) and a real oddity I can't figure out, and if anyone has any thoughts about it that would be great.
Sometimes, the image captured/shown/exported is a lighter picture, and other capture/playing/export methods are darker picture. Example: the captured 60i from Final Cut Pro has a light gamma picture when viewed in Quicktime Player.
But playback in Final Cut Pro appears darker, and rich. But then exporting it out turns it light again, but export out to a MPEG-2 DVD is darker again? ODD.
Can anyone explain the FCP capture size of 1888 x 1062?
Anyhow, here is some workflow success that I had.
Capturing in Final Cut Pro using the HDV 1080/60i setting with HDV firewire basic NDF. But 60i is evil. So that's not enough. Got to get it to 24P,since that allows 20% more bandwidth, space, faster renders, and DVD players can play it.
Transcoding to a regular editing codec before converting to 24P is required. I found that MPEG Streamclip would create a wierd, jagged edges on small moving figures with high contrast, no matter what the settings, so I refuse to use it to export the footage.
So instead, FCP has an additional capture option of "Apple Intermediate Codec" or something like that, which transcribes it on the fly to AIC. I always stayed away from AIC like the plague, but they must have spent some time with it because it's nearly identical to the HDV original.
Next, open up in Quicktime Player, and start the clip on that second P frame. Sounds odd, I know. Goto the first interlaced frame, and back up two frames. Mark the "I", and then move that Out marker to the end, and then Trim the clip to the selection. Do that with all the clips, and then you can batch 24P them all.
If you don't want to find that one frame each time, here are the other settings:
First, open up the clip inside cinema tools, and then select Rev. Telecine button.
Find out which of these your clip is doing at the very beginning:
p-p-i-i-p - aa
p-i-i-p-p - bb
i-p-p-p-i - bc
p-p-p-i-i - cd
i-i-p-p-p - this is no good. must remove at least one frame from the beginning of source file
i = interlaced frame
p = progressive frame
all settings use the F1-F2, style one, standard upper/lower

Sometimes, the image captured/shown/exported is a lighter picture, and other capture/playing/export methods are darker picture. Example: the captured 60i from Final Cut Pro has a light gamma picture when viewed in Quicktime Player.
But playback in Final Cut Pro appears darker, and rich. But then exporting it out turns it light again, but export out to a MPEG-2 DVD is darker again? ODD.
This is known. This happens with ANY footage you look at in FCP and QT player. QT lightens the gamma of the footage. Why? Something to do with adjusting the image for computer monitors.
Shane

24p or 25p With Canon HV20?

A number of people on this forum have written about shooting 24p with the Canon HV20 and I have also read independent reviews about it.
So why does my HV20 only have 25p in the menus and manual ?
Is it because mine is PAL and the others are NTSC ?
Will 25p be superior to 24p ?
Also how do you deal with it when using FCE/FCP ? Do you treat it exactly as you would 1080i50 HDV and use the same Easy Setups etc.?
Actually it is not called "25p" but "HDV(PF25)"
Message was edited by: Ian R. Brown

I think it's like most things, you can _Crash and Burn_ or _Crash and Learn._
Jump in and try everything.
Thankfully we use PAL and _Not The Same Colour_ twice.
What's (PF25) stand for? 25 Progressive Frames??
BTW: I doubt if your camera will or Mac will catch fire under normal test conditions.
Al

Removing Pulldown from Canon HV20 shot at 24P

Hello,
I have been trying to understand this whole situation particularly with the Canon HV20 and the 1080p24 mode that the camera offers. It is my understanding that when this video is stored to HDV it is shot onto a 1080i60 timeline, thus when capturing the video capture the video at 1080i60.
Okay, that I can do without a problem. However now I want to remove the pulldown using Cinema Tools to get the video into the proper 1080p24 mode so that it can be edited on a 1080p24 timeline.
I have read two main posts regarding this:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=4287943&#4287943
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89642&highlight=fcp
The user was kind enough to provide the following information:
p-p-i-i-p - aa
p-i-i-p-p - bb
i-p-p-p-i - bc
p-p-p-i-i - cd
However, I understand that this implies the sequencing of the Interlaced and Progressive frames.
With that said, I have no clue how this applies to the options available in Cinema tools. I have zero experience with Cinema Tools other than, "Hey, that looks interesting." just to fiddle around with it for a minute get bored and move on.
Thanks any help would be greatly appreciated and I am sure that there will be other HV20 owners soon popping up with the same question....
PowerMac G5 Quad / MacBook Pro 2.0GHz / PowerMac G4 Cube 1.8GHz Mac OS X (10.4.9) Final Cut Studio - Shake 4.1 - Adobe CS2

If someone can explain how this works or point to
someplace I can learn some more I would appreciate
it.
My apologies in advance for the long winded post.
I’ve seen this question several times but I haven’t yet seen a good answer for this. So I did a little digging and here’s what I can tell you. Any of you experts out there can correct me if need be.
First off, let’s look at how the HV20 actually stores the 24p frames in a 60i format. And let’s ignore the 23.98/29.97fps thing for a while. Remember that for 60i there are 60 interlaced fields every second, each containing half the video lines necessary to make up a complete frame of data. So in order to get a complete frame, it requires 2 fields. This means that 60i really only has 30 frames worth of video every second. Fairly basic stuff… I hope nothing new.
Now let’s break this down a little further, the most basic repeating pattern for this format is 4 progressive frames being fit into 10 interlaced fields (divide both 24 and 60 by 6, don’t ask me why, it’s just the way they did it because it fits.). These 4 progressive frames are referred to as A – B – C – D. What the HV20 (and other cameras) do is convert this to interlaced fields so that it fits inside the 60i data fields. This gives us something like Au – Al – Bu – Bl – Cu – Cl – Du – Dl. Where the “u” and “l” refer to the upper or lower field of video. To make a complete frame you have to reassemble an upper field with a lower field. Now it you’re keeping track, you’ll notice that this only adds up to 8 fields and 10 would be what is needed. So they duplicate 2 fields to get 10 in this fashion: Au – Al – Bu – Bl – Bl – Cu – Cl – Du - Du – Dl. Since it takes 2 sequential fields to make a frame, this sequence normally gets referred to as AA – BB – BC – CD – DD. It shouldn’t be that big of a leap now to see that this can also be referred to as p-p-i-i-p when looked at from a frame (two consecutive fields) perspective, ie: AA is considered progressive, BB is considered progressive, BC is considered interleaved, etc.
FCP uses the AA – BB – BC – CD – DD nomenclature to designate how the cadence of a clip starts.
p-p-i-i-p -> AA – BB – BC – CD – DD -> referred to as AA
p-i-i-p-p -> BB – BC – CD – DD – AA -> referred to as BB
i-i-p-p-p -> BC – CD – DD - AA – BB -> referred to as BC
i-p-p-p-i -> CD – DD - AA – BB – BC -> referred to as CD
p-p-p-i-i -> DD - AA – BB – BC – CD -> referred to as DD
As mentioned before, the easiest way to do this in Cinema Tools is to place the first of 3 p frames in the viewer and the set the cadence to DD.
Hope this helps.
Mark

Issues with Canon HV20?

I am on the verge of purchasing a canon HV20 and iMovie '08. My biggest goal is to watch game film of my kids sporting events in HD. I've heard that some have complained about 1080i using this camera. Can anyone comment?
Thanks

I just did not think that I achieve as much of the look as I expected. I am not sure about the shutter speed. It is supposed to be 1/48 or something like that to achieve the maximum film-like appeareance. When you put this camera in "P" & modify to 24p with cinema mode you are not able to verify what the shutter speed is.
I am not sure if it is in the proper speed to achieve the maximum effect. Do not get me wrong, there is a slight difference with your standard HD mode, however, it was a little less than I expected.
Again, I am not sure if the shutter speed sets itself when you have it on "Cinema mode" @ 24p
Message was edited by: gusluz

IMovie 08, the Canon HV20, & 24p?

Although iMovie 08 has been highly disappointing (less functionality, timelines, etc) can it natively capture video from the Canon HV20 that has been recorded in 24p "Cinema mode"? If not, is there a plugin to do the pulldown required for capturing and editing, and are the results equal to native 24p capturing and editing? If not, I'll have to use iMovie HD all the time - too much functionality was taken out it in iMovie 08.

I use HV20 all the time with iMovie 06 and 08. Like many has pointed out the only thing 24p about HV20 is its sensor. It can scan 24fps progressively but records to tape as 60i using pulldown and the result is '24p looking video playback' on 60i system - just like many movie DVDs where the source is 24p but stored as 60i.
If you want true 24p editing you need to use NLE that supports 24p timeline, which no consumer level NLE does, and you should convert 60i clips back to 24p via a process called reverse-telecine. So for most of us Hv20 would work just fine with iMovie 06 or 08 as is.
As for low light performance of HV20, it is a little bit better than other cams in this class when you use 24p mode because the shutter can open for longer time allowing more light in. But any consumer HD cameras suffer from bad low light performance so don't expect HV20 to do any miracles.

Canon HV20, 24p pull-down and Final Cut Studio 2

Has anyone successfully done a 24p pull-down using this camera on a Mac? Specifically in Final Cut Studio 2? If so, is it a built-in pull down or is it a workaround.
The HV20 doesn't have pull-down flags ad causes some issues. There is a workaround but it's cumbersome and annoying to say the least. I'm HOPING FCS2 alleviated this.

I don't think FCS2 has any support for your HV20 that I can see, Cinema Tools is where you will need to do a reverse telecine. I have read other posts here from people who have tried it, do a search and read up. I believ the HV20 shoots 24p and records to tape as 60i. If in fact it does I can't really think of a good reason to remove pull down unless you are going to film. HDV files are extremely small and even if you did remove the pull down for say a DVD, the DVD player is going to add it back on playback anyway. The look will be the same. 24p with pull down is 24p.
Good Luck
Z1&V1user

Will canon hv20 work with imovie4?

I am considering buying the canon hv20 but want to know if it will work with imovie 4. can any one please help. if it wont, does anyone have any suggestions for a video camera in the same price range that will?
many thanks

carlov wrote:
I am considering buying the canon hv20 but want to know if it will work with imovie 4. ...
yes and no
iM vers4 does NOT support HiDef quality as the hv20 delivers...
allthough, afaik, the Canon is able to output HD (HiDef) in SD (standard) ... that should work with iM..
check your set-up with the specs of iLife8 http://www.apple.com/ilife/systemrequirements.html ..
invest 80$, and you get iM08 AND iMHD6 (HD stands for HiDef)
or eBay for a iMHD5 version of iMovie ...

Import HD video with my Canon HV20

Hi, I have a Canon HV20 which is a High Def camera. I bought a firecable at the Apple Store, but now I'm trying to import it into Final Cut. I used the Log and Capture, then went and imported it as HV NTSC 48 Khz. When I burn it with DVD Studio Pro it doesn't look like it is HD. So what is a correct preset that Final Cut will recognize it because when I select like one of the DVDPRO options he won't recognize it. Thank you and much obliged for any help.

Thanks for your reply. I still can't find it in the list, attached is a screen shot. Thank you for your help!
Message was edited by: EBechStein

Canon HV20. Anyone using one? Any problems with iMovie HD?

So as a follow up to my other post about the Sony, has anyone been using Canon's HV20 with iMovie hd? If I can't get the older Sony to run with iMovie, I'd probably check this out over the Sony HD model, given all the reviews I've read. I really would like an external mic ability, in case I want to use a lavaliere mic for an interview. It appears that the Sony will not allow me to use one. I assume that I can easily plug this model into a MacBook and run it from iMovie, as well as import and edit clips.
Thoughts?

There is a box in the top right corner of this discussion group labeled "Search Discussions". Just type HV20 in there. There have been a couple of threads lately on the HV20.

Capturing HD with Canon HV20

Anyway to capture HD with a Canon HV20 using PE4? When the settings in my HV20 are on HDV and I change the capture settings in PE4 to HDV Capture 1080i, the capture is choppy, the playback is choppy and the vid turns out funky. Now that YouTube offers HD 1280 x 720, I'm trying to actually use my HD vid cam to upload some HD vids.
Any thoughts?
thanks!

Try capturing with HDVsplit.
http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm

Canon HV20 Compatibility with Final Cut Express

I cannot get the latest version of Final Cut Express to work with my new Canon HV20 video camera. I can get the video into iMovie 08, but nothing I try can get Final Cut Express to recognize the camera. I cannot import the imovie file either. It gives me an error. I can drag the video from the Hard Disk to Final Cut Express to import it, but that is cumbersome.

Start here:
http://www.fcpbook.com/Video10.html
Then come back and do this:
Please give your full system specifications, what computer, what drives, what camera or deck, how everything's connected, what settings are on the media, what settings you're using in FCE, and finally what version of the software, of the OS, and of QT are you using?

Live capture with FCE 4 and Canon HV20 - End of Tape when capture in HD

I have a Canon HV20 HiDef video camera that was given to me to record an event. I want to try and avoid using the tapes if possible and capture the video directly into my MacBook Pro using FCE 4.
If I try and capture video when the camera is set to HD output, the capture screen comes up, I can see the image from the camera on the FCE4 screen for a split second, then I get a message indicating the end of tape has been encountered. (The tape isn't even being used and is no where near the end anyway).
If I change the camera to DV output, I can change the FCE4 Easy Setup to simple DV control and it works fine to capture live, except that it is no longer in HD. I get no error message about the tape end being hit.
I am unable to find any Easy Setup configuration that will allow me to record live. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

Play your tape forward to a position where there is continuous Timecode and try again.
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Note: Your camera must be set to output HDV assuming it recorded HDV.
Al

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