Downconverting DVCPRO HD to DVCPRO 50

Hello all,
I searched the forums on this broad issue but no posts seemed to discuss my specific prob.
I shot on the HVX-200 in 24PN and began downconverting my imported footage (DVCPRO HD 720PN 24fps) to DV50 23.98. I noticed that media manager could do the job fine but the one issue was the slight aliasing that would occur in the newly downcoverted DV50 23.98 quicktime. It's not even that bad (i.e. It looks less aliased than when you de-interlace an interlaced clip, but it doesn't look right, none the less). I tried downcoverting it several times, experimented with selecting interlaced and progressive settings, among everything else I could think of but the could not figure out the aliasing issue. Then I tried exporting from the Viewer (with the HD clip open in it), no change. Finally I placed the DVCPRO HD clip in a matching sequence (DVCPRO HD - 720p24) and it FINALLY downconverted to a DV50 23.98 quicktime WITHOUT the subtle aliasing.
I had an online editor check it out to see if I was crazy and the only explanation at the time he could think of is the issue was connected to the simple fact that FCP is best described as "field based" and only when the clip was exported from within its matching sequence would it downconvert without the aliasing issue.
The frustrating thing about this is I'd have to manually downcovert every single clip from the timeline, or dump them ALL into a timeline and downconvert, THEN bring in that newly DV50 23.98 downcoverted clip and start subclipping just to get all my footage seperated into clips again.
And no, laying all that footage to tape isn't an option. Shouldn't have to be since I can successfully downconvert, but just can't do a batch process.
Does this all boil down to Media Manager's "recompress" is not technically the same thing as "downconverting" and doesn't guarantee perfect results?

Hey Jx,
For production purposes, there are features in camera such as the varicam overcrank/undercrank ability and others as well that I wanted to take advantage of (I believe 24pNative is only available in HD mode as well, which mainly I just used for it's smaller file size as I was using P2 cards). And the use of P2 cards, eliminating capturing.
For post production purposes, I wanted to be able to deliver my show (a music video) HD down the road and deliver SD for the time being. Plus, I do all the VFX shots with the HD clips for the reason of just working in higher res (cleaner, easier compositing), plus I then have the ability to reframe (i.e. rescale shots) with the HD clips at their 960x720 frame size down to NTSC's 720x480. E.G. I wanna zoom in 20% to crop out a boom mic, etc. I can do it with (essentially) no quality loss.
That's all I can think of at the moment. Hope you buy some of these reasons cuz they were advantages for me. Also, I can't technically explain it but common belief seems to be the downconverted (from HD) DVCPRO 50 shot will look better than the in-camera DVCPRO 50 shot. That statement might be false "a priori" but it wouldn't be the first time I say something foolish. Thanks for posting.

Similar Messages

  • DVCPRO HD downconverting to SD & MP2

    I've searched the forum and haven't found the exact answer to my problem.
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    So, what's the best way to output an MP2, DV and drastically-scaled Quicktime file from a DVCPRO HD 50i file?
    Thanks
    G5 quad, 4G RAM   Mac OS X (10.4.8)  

    try using Bonsia's method:
    http://www3.telus.net/bonsai/Welcome.html
    adapting that to your chosen workflow...
    for the PAL SD version go into your Uncompressed 8-bit SD timeline's sequence settings, and under the Video Processing tab, change the "Motion Filtering" setting to "Fastest (Linear)". also you might want to add a Channel Blur of 1 pixel or less, which helps to reduce shimmer introduced by the fine detail of HD (which is too fine for SD!)
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  • Mixed Media: 720p 60 + DVCPRO 50

    Hi all,
    I've searched the forums looking to answer this question, and may have actually found the answer more than once but have now thoroughly confused myself into a corner, so I thought I should just post.
    What would be the best method to work with 720p60 HD footage and DVCPRO 50 footage in the same timeline?
    All media has already been captured; recapturing with a hardware/deck/camera-based downconvert is no longer an option. Final output is to an SD DVD, in both NTSC and PAL (for which I'll be using Natress' Standards Conversion).
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    *Um, yeah, important note: I've already done a bunch of editing on this project, naively (perhaps) believing that I could go about downconverting later on, but I did this thinking that Media Manager could easily convert and replace or create a new project with the downconverted media.
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    Hey Pat, thanks -- your post gets to the heart of my troubles. (Shane's does too, in the sense of technical specifics, e.g. please forgive any slightly misstated specs in what follows...)
    The 16mm footage, which was originally 24 frames per second, was transferred to DVCPRO 50 (interlaced NTSC, 720x480, 29.97) before being captured (and it looks great). The few bits of DV were actually shot PAL (progressive) before being transfered to DV NTSC (interlaced), prior to capture (I had no say here, this is how I received the material -- which, by the way, looked pretty nasty).
    The HD footage was shot 720p 60, which I'm understanding means 960x720, 'p' for 'progressive' and 60 frames per second. That last part has confused the heck out of me -- I know it's possible to shoot faster than NTSC's run of the mill 30fps (okay, 29.97), but for some reason I thought this was an unusual circumstance (as if it needed a special camera or tape stock or whatever). I also understand the potential benefits when it comes to shooting a higher frame rate, like if you're planning on doing speed changes (especially slow-mo), but am I wrong to think that 60fps is unusual?
    Let me clarify a little. I know 29.97 is standard NTSC video, but according to the info within FCP (and in my bins), 720p 60 means 60 frames per second, not fields per second (which would indeed be 30 frames per second, or 29.97). If, however, the format was called '60i' this would mean that it was indeed 60 (or 59.98) fields per second, giving us 30 (or 29.97) frames per second. Please let me know if I've got this right.
    Assuming that's correct, then the 720p 60 is never going to play nicely with the DVCPRO 50. Even if I take the clips that I want to slow down and change their speed in a native timeline (720p 60), those rendered files still won't look good back in the DVCPRO 50 timeline (progressive vs. interlaced, 59.98 fps vs. 29.97 fps). It would seem to me that the best way to deal with this is to take the 720p 60 footage, make the speed changes in a native timeline (BTW, which way: using the speed controls within FCP, or Twixtor, or some kind of Cinema Tools conversion taking advantage of the 60fps?), and then output or convert this clips somehow before placing them back into the non-native DVCPRO 50 timeline. Make sense?
    My original hope was that the frame rate would be a minor concern, rendered nicely in the DVCPRO 50 timeline, and I was optimistic by how easily they seemed to mix together prior to making any speed changes. This hope was further dashed by the different results yielded by some of the film effects, like adding grain (which I now have a solution for: make all of my speed changes, finalize my edit, output a final version, then import that movie for applying additional effects, which will no longer vary according to the source footage specs, such as frame size and frame rate). I know it'll wind up being more complicated than this (for example, if I've got a cross dissolve between a 720p 60 clip and a 16mm clip (transferred to DVCPRO 50), applying a 24p film effect to the HD footage must be done independently (since the 16mm clip already has a 24p look to it), output (or rendered?), a then dropped back into the edit before outputting for final effects, such as adding grain).
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    Maybe I can help things along by restating my questions (simply):
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    2. What is the best way to insert speed-altered 720p 60 clips into a DVCPRO 50 timeline?
    3. What is the best way to apply a 24p frame rate effect (courtesy of Nattress' Film Effects) to this mix of 720p 60 and DV? (None of the DVCPRO 50 requires this filter because it was all originally 16mm film, which already appears to be 24p)
    Thank you for your help so far, and thanks in advance!
    P.S. - Sorry, another thought just occured to me. Say my cut is locked, couldn't I also opt to output the edited 720p 60 clips I'm using from a native 720p 60 timeline, then convert these clips using Compressor and re-import them into my project?
    I've read elsewhere that Compressor's format conversions are pretty spiffy, if time-consuming, but I'd only need to do this to a handful of relatively short shots. This way I could import the clips as DVCPRO 50 NTSC (interlaced, 29.97, 720x480), then apply other effects to all of the clips (like 24p, grain, etc.)...

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    I am about to start a project shooting both formats at 24p. The DVCPRO 50 will be at 24p advanced. I am not sure about the DV but I might get both advanced and non-advanced footage.
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    Is the DVCPRO 50 footage being down-converted to DV for editing?
    If someone cold suggest a workflow using this above scenario I would be forever grateful.
    Thanks,
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    Capture everything at the same codec. If the majority of the footage you have is DV, then capture at the DV/NTSC codec...yes, downconverting the DVCPRO 50.
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    Keep things simple. One format...one framerate. It helps no one to complicate things.
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  • Dvcpro 50 vs regular dv with the HVX200

    what are the advantages with shooting dvcpro or dvcpro 50 vs regular dv with the HVX200? Is the image quality better?

    Just thought I'd expand on the "already mentioned" as I'm currently working on a project with all the mixed media the HVX-200 can give you (i.e. DV, DV50 and DVCPRO HD). Since I'm not finishing HD (but leaving the project "open" once completed so it could be matched back with the HD dailies of course) I chose the middle ground and brought everything to the DVCPRO 50 playing field (i.e. downconverted the HD to DVCPRO 50 and upconverted the DV to DVCPRO 50).
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  • DVCPRO HD - 24p from HDX900 not smooth

    I am preparing to do an HD project on my FCP system. This weekend I ran some tests by downconverting a DVCPRO HD test tape w/ 24p and 30p footage with pans and other stuff to Beta-SP AND separately capturing thru FW400. The DC went thru an AJA SDI to component converter. Sweet little box. The Beta downconvert and resulting edits worked with no problem. The FW capture and edit (from a 1200a deck) led to mixed results.
    If the edit timebase was 23.98, everything looked okay, but since my final output is SD via compressor, the SD file compressed from that timeline (to uncompressed 8-bit) showed problems in intrepreting the pans - the single problem I'm getting is an extra, duplicate frame of video every five frames.
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    When I create the uncompressed 8-bit file in compressor, and reset the EZ setup in FCP to the BMD Decklink extreme codec, the remported file shows the camera pans displaying the extra fifth frame. I'm just trying to find a way to smooth out this part of the process. The experts on the group say creating SD through compressor at the end of the line is the thing to do. So I'm not so certain any of this points to my going the wrong way. But I'll be the first to admit I'm at my infancy in experience with HD and 24p. It get's a bit confusing.

  • Kona DVCPro HD to HDCAM Cross-Convert Question for Shane Ross

    Hi Shane (Or anyone else whose done this)... Shane posted the comment below at Creative Cow Oct'06:
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    Mac Pro 2.66, 2GB ram, 250GB system, 1TB internal raid, ATI x1900xt and NVidia 7300GT   Mac OS X (10.4.8)  

    1. Are you happy with the cross-converted 960X720 DVCPro HD footage to 1080p 23.98 quality? I'm assuming this is 1920X1080...
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    Where you can send the check for all the workflow advice I am giving to you (and everyone)
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    Do I just load the DVCPro HD file into Compressor, and enter in a Standard Definition MPEG2 Preset, and compressor will do the downconversion?
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    Message was edited by: Jerry Hofmann

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