Dual Layer Dvds - bad compression, or something worse?

Hi,
I've recently been trying to burn a double layer dvd in disk utility but the video seems to have been over compressed into one layer?
I know my Macbook Pro is capable of doing the dual layer, but I can't find a setting anywhere for it.
Other cds and dvds will burn ok...
is it because I'm using a disk image on my hard drive?
Any help would be appreciated - I've been having a good look around but I can't find anyone with my problem!

The original post needs clarification to determine what the user meant. Generally speaking, there's data compression at the front-end when encoding information for storage on a video DVD - the conversion of source video into the MPEG2 format. There are two constraints, the permitted bit-rate of DVD video, and the size of the disk. When encoding, the user can specify the size of the target disk. If using iDVD, it won't permit your video to be over 2 hours long.
One thing to keep in mind is that if the source video is not noticeably higher-than-DVD-quality, the resulting MPEG2 compressed video stream will look noticeably lower quality. For example, if you have MPEG4 video from an AVCHD camcorder, the transcoding to MPEG2 will really degrade the video. None of that has anything to do with dual- versus single-layer disks. Further, Disk Utility doesn't do anything but copy bytes from the image file directly to the disk. It's oblivious to what it is writing and doesn't modify the content or encoding in any way.
However, in response to the above comment, it should probably be pointed out that the poster lives in Australia, where copyright rules are a little different. Specifically, the user's permitted to make a duplicate of a commercial DVD for a reasonable personal use (backup, copy for the summer house, etc.), the user is also permitted to "format shift" a work (transform it so that it may be replayed on a device that could not display the work as presented on the original). Unlike the USA, an individual can circumvent access controls on the media to do so. Of course, this is limited to fair and reasonable personal uses -- you can't share stuff by P2P or whatnot.
FWIW - Quite a few legal scholars believe the restrictions the US puts on "accessing" a work are not constitutional. The US' "Digital Millennium Copyright Act" rules regarding access controls (encryption, region coding, etc.) have never been tested in court. I suspect that would fail namely because the US law, as written, also restricts access to works in the public domain (if you've a DVD with a public domain film, but it's encrypted, it's against the law to decrypt it), and because the US has entered into treaties that, among other things, prohibit legal protection on restricting access to works based on their region of origin.
But, I digress.

Similar Messages

Compressing 7.5 Hour video for Dual Layer DVD

I've got to compress 7.5 hours of footage into an MPEG2 fittable on a Dual Layer DVD. The client knows that the quality will be inferior. Anyone have any suggestions as to settings before I start? I'm guessing to set the bitrate to 2.3 or so. How about the maximum? Thanks!

I used Compressor and set everything on the MPEG 2 settings to the lowest I could, like 2.1-5.0 and compressed the **** out of it. It looks pretty decent for that much compression. It only fit because I chopped off the credits sequence from the 15 different sections, compressed that seperately, then had them link to it so that it was actually about seven hours of footage. There's a little pixelation when you go into certain motion areas, but the client's happy. I only recommend doing this if there are no other options.
AK

Best compression setting 90min movie on Dual Layer DVD

Okay, I admit, I am a total n00b at this...so sorry if you have to break things down into the most basic terms...
I am trying to get the BEST quality I can for my adobe Encore project (for ease of calculation, 90min movie and added features). I was previously getting "exceeds dvd capacity" error in Encore.
I have decided to recompress and see what I can do to make it all fit, but first I want to re-evaluate my whole process...
the ultimate issue comes down to three things (i think)...
1. CBR v VBR?? what is better and why?
2. What Data Bit Rate to compress at and why?
3. Single layer DVD vs Dual Layer DVD? Which is better and why?
to begin the discussion, I'll tell you what I "know" and what I think.
It seems DVD players can only handle a max bit rate of 8mbps so I don't want to go over that and using a Dual layer disc I risk that it may not work on older players....also, the dual layer costs twice as much to duplicate (this sucks but money is not an issue at this point, quality is more important). From what I have read, constant Bit Rate @ 8mbps will give me the Best possible image... 8 is the max and so to encode at 8 the entire time should be the best.. will i have any issues with this? This is not an amateur home movie but rather an indie feature film so I want to get the best possible viewable product out to people. I will have blu-ray questions to come later (thats what we are going to send to festivals).
any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks so much...
chris

Okay, thanks for everyone's thoughts.
Question....
I totally understand not wanting to waste space on a dvd IF there was extra room.... HOWEVER, a movie at 90min with menus, etc. BARELY fits on a dvd at a 6.8mbps VBR compression rate....
therefore....why not just fork out the extra couple bucks and just compress the whole thing at 8.0mbps 2pass CBR, slap it on a dual layer and even though there will be parts of the movie that will be higher than necessary, and there will be leftover space on the dual layer dvd.... you will be guaranteed to have the highest quality right? heavy motion areas and more static areas will all be encoded at 8 and thus, the best....
am i wrong in thinking this?
and after some extensive reading and research....Although is says a dvd player can handle 9.8mbps..... it doesnt' seem safe to encode that high because a lot of players can't handle it.... what is everyone else's thoughts?
I found this:
Data rate
DVD-Video discs have a raw bitrate of 11.08 Mbit/s, with a 1.0 Mbit/s overhead, leaving a payload bitrate of 10.08 Mbit/s. Of this, up to 3.36 Mbit/s can be used for subtitles and a maximum of 9.80 Mbit/s can be split amongst audio and video. In the case of multiple angles the data is stored interleaved, and so there's a bitrate penalty leading to a max bitrate of 8 Mbit/s per angle to compensate for additional seek time. This limit is not cumulative, so each additional angle can still have up to 8 Mbit/s of bitrate available.
Professionally encoded videos average a bitrate of 4-5 Mbit/s with a maximum of 7–8 Mbit/s in high-action scenes. This is typically done to allow greater compatibility amongst players, and to help prevent buffer underruns in the case of dirty or scratched discs.

Burning to a dual layer DVD

Hello,
I've just finished a project that I want to take to a facility to have copies made. I've been told in the past that using a DVD-R can create problems with the copies when used in certain DVD players. I'm running DVD SP2 and I can't seem to get the program to accept anything but a DVD-R. Is this a preferences issue or should I take the actual Video and Audio TS and burn it straight to the dual layer DVD? Would appreciate any help?
John
PowerMac G4 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

It could be a hardware and/or software problem.
As far as Dual-Layer disks go ... I don't think they were around in the DVDSP 2 days... that's too long ago for me to know (without searching, and searching is your friend in this case).
Also your G4 might only have a DVD-R drive and that might be why DVD SP is only accepting DVD-R's. You most likely don't even have a Dual-Layer DVD drive unless you installed one later on in your G4.
How large is the Video_TS folder? You'd only need to burn it to a Dual Layer if it's >4.7gigs and even if it is you need to create a Dual-Layer break point in DVDSP to tell the disk when to switch over to the other layer on the disk. Or if it's just over 4.7 gigs (approx.) you can try and re-compress it and see if you can fit it onto one disk (which may be better for compatability issues, something you seem to be concerned about) - you may end up having more problems w/ Dual-Layers and players compared to DVD-R's and players.
Good Luck

Unable to burn Dual Layer DVD's with Toast

Hi all,
I'm having issues trying to burn dual layer dvd's with either Toast 10.0.8 or 11.0.1. I keep getting the Interface -50 error and sense key 0x02 error saying media is incompatible.
I have tried dvd's by DataWrite and Elite M and they both show error. It's strange though as I have been using previously purchased Elite M dual layer dvd's of the same spec as these newly purchased ones, and they worked fine!
My dvd drive is a standard OPTIARC AD-7170 that came with the Mac Pro as spec'd.
I am able to burn single layer fine, and dual layers are read. I'm just unable to write dual layer at the moment.
Any ideas? I'm stuck on what to do and what manufacturer's dual layer dvd's will work with this drive. It can just do +R DL.
Could it be I've been unlucky to have had 4 bad batches? I brought 2 x 2 (25 disc) tubs of DataWrite and same by 50 disc tubs Elite M.
Please help.
Thanks,
Ash
P.s. I have tried creating a new admin user account to see if I am able to burn under that. I get the same errors.
P.p.s. "Hopefully" this is just a media issue and I can find some that works again. If not and it is a drive fault what can I do? What writers spec'd same are available internal for my Mac Pro?
Message was edited by: AshleySmith06

Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:
If think you may be using the wrong speed-range media for that drive's capabilities. As I mentioned, there are two ranges, and 8X media cannot be written in a 2.4x (sometimes referred to as 4x) drive.
When you get an error message that actually tells you something concrete, you should listen to it:
CANNOT WRITE MEDIUM - INCOMPATIBLE FORMAT
... is pretty unambiguous. It's a problem with the Media.
Off-Brand media is the next weak link in the chain. One of their many problems is that they vary wildly from batch to batch. Verbatim media are thought to be the "gold standard". Get a small number of Verbatim Media and see if you can make ONE master on the best in the market. If you can, the problem is in the Media. If you can NOT, the problem is in the process.
Like I mentioned I have never had issue with Elite M before, and I always set Toast to burn "Best" under the recorder settings.
Here's what system profiler says for the disc and drive...
OPTIARC DVD RW AD-7170A:
Firmware Revision: 1.N8
Interconnect: ATAPI
Burn Support: Yes (Apple Shipping Drive)
Cache: 2048 KB
Reads DVD: Yes
CD-Write: -R, -RW
DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +R DL, +RW
Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, CD-Raw, DVD-DAO
Media:
Type: DVD+R DL
ID: UMEDISC DL1
Blank: Yes
Erasable: No
Overwritable: Yes
Appendable: Yes
Write Speeds: 1x

Incompatibility issues with Dual Layer DVD+R help?

I think I've made a serious mistake in believing I could author a Dual layer dvd for replication and sale on my own. I've spent over 14 months on this film, which is working perfectly in Encore, complete with extensive menus and transitional movies.
I've done my best to transcode the media in the most compatible way (keeping bitrate below 7mbps and using dolby digital audio format) BUT I'm still having bad luck with MOST dvd players.
The DVD plays properly on my cheap sony player, but both my toshiba and humax/tivo players failed to read the disc. (multiple tries/burns....or coasters, now) I've read that there are common problems with dual layer +R.
MY QUESTION IS: what is the BEST POSSIBLE WAY to author/burn this project for mass replication? Can I really achieve the result I'm looking for with Encore or will I have to give up and go to a professional authoring house with DLT capability?
Will I get the best result by burning from encore straight to disc OR burning an image or folder, then using a third party burning program?
Thanks SO MUCH for any responses. This process has been soul-crushing.

>The DVD plays properly on my cheap sony player, but both my toshiba and humax/tivo players failed to read the disc. (multiple tries/burns....or coasters, now) I've read that there are common problems with dual layer +R.
Marc, the only mistake I think you are making is in assuming that set top players can handle a written DVD+R DL disc.
Support in older players is at best sketchy.
If the disc is working properly in at least one player, then you should be good to go.
Replication will produce a different type of disc. One that
i will
play properly.
Not all burners support book typing, and unless you know what you're doing here do not use these "fudges". It's best using Plextor, and even Benq burners. The freeware utility IMGBurn has this ability, and it also tells you what burners do this. I've never needed it personally, as my Pioneer burners & Denon players have no trouble with +R DL media.
What you really need is a player that you
i know
plays DVD+R DL discs properly. Once you know your player is good with the format, then all other inconsistencies are player related, not authoring, and not your problem. There is simply no way at all you can guarantee any form of compliance with +R DL media, as there is nothing in the specs that says any set top player has to read these discs. Or -R DL where support is generally even worse.
Whilst most players will read -R single layer & +R single layer, again there is no mandatory requirement to do so.
You will need to get these
i replicated
and not duplicated. Duplication (burning) will result in a lot of returns, and a lot of wasted money.

Creating Dual Layer DVDs

I'm trying to encode a dual layer DVD. I'm rendering the project with iDVD and creating a disk image of the DVD on my hard drive. I'm then using Disk Utility to burn the image to a DL disk. The DVD plays fine about half-way through on my DVD player and then freezes. I'm guessing the DVD player is having trouble transitioning to the second layer indicating there is a problem w/ the way it was encoded. The DVD player is functioning fine, as it does not have problems with other dual layered disks.
Is Disk Utility capable of burning a disk image formatted for dual layers onto a DVD? I don't know if iDVD is creating a bad dual layer disk image or if Disk Utility is incapable of encoding a dual layer disk image to a DVD.
Could someone please comment on what the best way to get a dual layer disk image transferred to a dl DVD using iDVD would be?
Thanks in advance.

I agree with Len. You'll have much better luck with Roxio Toast. Len is also very successful at burning from a disc image via Roxio Toast at 4x or slower. And this is really the best approach in my opinion. However I do want to point out exactly what the iDVD Help Menu states with regards to using a disc image and dual layer media. Pay special attention to the final paragraph below:
Creating a disc image of a project
You can create a disc image of your project so you can burn additional DVDs of your project without going through the encoding process each time.
Saving a disc image of your project creates a file that is formatted just like a finished DVD, except it’s not actually burned on a disc. All the media is compressed into the format used on a DVD, and you can play it on your computer by double-clicking the disc image icon and opening DVD Player.
To create a disc image:
Choose File > Save As Disc Image.
Type a name for the disc image.
Choose where you want to store the disc image.
Click Save.
You can use Disk Utility in Mac OS X to burn the disc image to a DVD when you are ready.
Note: If you burn your project to a double-layer disc, you should burn directly from iDVD rather than from a disc image. A disc-burning utility will not set the layer break according to DVD specifications and may cause playback issues.
Hope this helps
SDMacuser

Two hour sequence to dual-layer DVD?

Hi,
I'm confused.
I have a two hour 16:9 sequence (actually 1 hour, 56 minute) that I want to put on a dual-layer DVD. I guess I didn't fully think it through when I sent it from FCP to Compressor and selected DVD 16:9 120 minute fastest encode, because it compressed it to 4.04 gigs rather than twice that size at a better quality. Now I'm looking for a setting that tells it my destination is a dual-layer DVD and I don't see it.
Additionally, the m2v file that came from that process cut off the final minute or so of my sequence. Why in the world would that happen?
Kenny

These instructions assume you're using DSP for authoring. I don't know if iDVD has DL capability.
The 'calculator' in Compressor assumes a single layer DVD. The key is to look at the summary, which is the far left tab in the Inspector. About 1/3 from the top, it will show the estimated file size. Adjust the bit rate selector until you get the file size approaching the capacity of the Dual Layer disk. You have other restrictions to consider as well. Totally data rate of video(s)audio(s)other data cannot exceed the maximum for the DVD spec (nominally 10mb/s).
Once inside DSP, when you burn the disk, you'll be asked to select a marker to indicate where the burner will change from writing to the first layer to the second layer. This should occur at a convenient location in the video (a fade to black, eg.) near the end of the first layer capacity. If you don't already have a marker near that point, be sure to add one for the switch-over.
Good luck
allen

Dual Layer DVD...

I want to burn my movie onto a dual layer DVD. There is a selection in DVDSP4 for dual layer, but how do I prep it for a lower compression/dual layer option in Compressor?

Not necessarily - passes impact the encode time, the first pass is a test encode, the second one is the real thing (think of it has a rough draft). It has nothing to do with whether you're using single or dual layer media.
It shouldn't change size in DVDSP - once the file is encoded that's it - it's going to stay that size no matter what. If its coming out at 4.7 GB you may be able to get away with single layer media.
Message was edited by: wallybarthman

Project for dual layer DVD

Hi there,
I have a project which contains several individual sequences that have been compressed separately and which constitutes several parts of my future DVD.
The total size is such that I need to burn a dual layer DVD.
How do I determine where to include the marker indicating to switch layer ?
I have done it before with a long project containing only one sequence, but this time the sequences are independent....
Would DVDSP include automatically a "change layer" marker if I burn as is ?
Thanks in advance
Ivan

I'd recommmend looking up "About Choosing a Dual-Layer Break Point" in the DVD Studio Pro user's manual or Help File.
-DH

Dual layer DVD will not play after iDVD burning

Hi All,
I am having some trouble making a useable DVD. I have a video that I recorded and imported into iMovie (2h33m long). I exported it to iDVD, which told me that I needed to use a dual layer DVD to make it fit. Here's where I noticed the first problem: iDVD has one option for a dual layer disc, stating that it has 7.7GB storage space, and my discs have 8.5GB. I set it to use the standard setting for the DL disc any ways, turned the quality down a bit to make it fit, and burned the DVD. After burning two discs, I still do not have one that works. It comes up as "supported disc not available" on my Mac, and as a blank disc on any other machine I put it in. It will run on my coworker's brand new iMac, but that is the only one. Am I doing something wrong? The only mistake that I have corrected since I have tried all this is changing the aspect ratio back from 4:3 to 16:9 in iMovie (I am not sure how that happened, as the video was originally recorded in 16:9). I am re-exporting the file to my desktop now in the proper ratio, and changed the quality to HD. I am waiting for the file to encode as we speak. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as this work is for my local school board and is very time sensitive.
I am running a 28" iMac, 2.66GHz Intel i5, 8GB RAM, 1TB hard drive on OSX 10.6.8.

I set it to use the standard setting for the DL disc any ways, turned the quality down a bit to make it fit, and burned the DVD.
That part I don't understand.
iDVD encoding settings:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1502?viewlocale=en_US
Short version:
Best Performance is for videos of up to 60 minutes
Best Quality is for videos of up to 120 minutes
Professional Quality is also for up to 120 minutes but even higher quality (and takes much longer)
That was for single-layer DVDs. Double these numbers for dual-layer DVDs.
Professional Quality: The Professional Quality option uses advanced two-pass technology to encode your video (The first pass determines which parts of the movie can be given greater compresson without quality loss and which parts can’t. The second pass then encodes those different parts accordingly) , resulting in the best quality of video possible on your burned DVD. You can select this option regardless of your project’s duration (up to 2 hours of video for a single-layer disc and 4 hours for a double-layer disc). Because Professional Quality encoding is time-consuming (requiring about twice as much time to encode a project as the High Quality option, for example) choose it only if you are not concerned about the time taken.
In both cases the maximum length includes titles, transitions and effects etc. Allow about 15 minutes for these.
You can use the amount of video in your project as a rough determination of which method to choose. If your project has an hour or less of video (for a single-layer disc), choose Best Performance. If it has between 1 and 2 hours of video (for a single-layer disc), choose High Quality. If you want the best possible encoding quality for projects that are up to 2 hours (for a single-layer disc), choose Professional Quality. This option takes about twice as long as the High Quality option, so select it only if time is not an issue for you.
Use the Capacity meter in the Project Info window (choose Project > Project Info) to determine how many minutes of video your project contains.
NOTE: With the Best Performance setting, you can turn background encoding off by choosing Advanced > “Encode in Background.” The checkmark is removed to show it’s no longer selected. Turning off background encoding can help performance if your system seems sluggish.
And whilst checking these settings in iDVD Preferences, make sure that the settings for NTSC/PAL and DV/DV Widescreen are also what you want.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1502?viewlocale=en_US

Dual Layer DVD not recognized

When I insert a dual layer DVD, it only shows 4.5 GB free space instead of the 8+ GB. I'm trying to burn a video requiring 6 GB, but says I only have 4+ GB available. Am I missing something?

Under Project Info:
Click Here:

IDVD 08, dual layer DVD doesn't burn last 2 minutes of audio

Hello,
iDVD 08, dual layer DVD doesn't burn last 2 minutes of audio, I get perfect audio/video through the whole DVD except the last 2 minutes or so...
I'm burning a 3 hour DVD on iDVD 08. I'm burning it only a DL+R Dual Layer disc. I've burned with "high quality" compression, "professional quality" compression. I've even burned the last 2 minutes of the timeline just to make sure it wasn't the quicktime file and the video and audio played fine.
The size of the project in the setting reads the project as 6.5 GB out of the 7.7 available on the disc.
So why does it always cut off the audio the last 2 minutes of the DVD? Any suggestions?
~Rhianne
[email protected]

Try making a disc image to the desktop (from the file menu in iDvd) and see if it plays fine with apple's dvd player app.

Dual Layer DVD Stock

Has anyone had any good / bad experiences with any brand of dual layer DVD stock? I'm getting ready to start a project and I have an external LaCie dual layer burner that I want to burn to. Thanks in advance!

I have also had miserable luck with Memorex DVD-R DL blanks. The only ones that verify at all are those that I burn at, 1x and two out of three of those are coasters. At $3 each that's really annoying.
I think I'd have gotten more enjoyment out of lighting cigars with the $60 I paid for the 20 discs rather than giving it to Staples for expensive coasters.
Taiyo Yuden, Fuji, and newer Verbatim seem to be the best mfg of DVD-R DL blanks. But their stuff is still pricey. Mitsui also makes great blanks, but I don't know if they are making DVD-R DLs yet.
Check out this website that rates optical media:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media.dvdmedia.htm
I did find a vendor who would sell me Taiyo Yuden DVD-R DL blanks for $1 ea., but I needed to buy a minimum of 300.
Beware that if you are burning a DVD-Video disc via DVDSP to one of these beauties, DVDSP does not verify the burn afterward like Toast or the built-in OS X disc burner.
So you may not be aware of errors in your disc. Watch out for this if you are burning a disc to send off for mastering.

Dual layer DVD playback problems

Hi Everyone -
I am struggling to make a dual layer DVD that plays back properly. It is for a 76 minute film plus several bonus items.
Total disc space used is 6.4 gig
The film was compressed to a bitrate of 7.1 with a max of 8.3
Audio compressed to 492 kbps (or whatever the 400ish setting is)
Project compiled fine (although I did get a "video bitrate too high" error the first time, then lowered the bitrate.)
Set to
red laser
dual layer
OTP
layer switch set for chapter 12
I've done a few test dual layer discs in the past successfully. What I have done differently with this one is add a lot of bonus material, so there are some 20 or so small video files and a commentary track and two additional audio tracks.
I do not get any error messages while compiling or burning.
The second attempt played back on my mac, at least the main film did. It struggled playing a couple of bonus features and would play others at all.
It loaded on my Mintek portable player, but wouldn't play any video.
It did not load at all on my Cyber Home DVD player or my Panasonic Blu Ray player.
I am wondering if all of these additional small files (none over 2:30 minutes) have caused some clutter that causes the machines to struggle.
I am also wondering if this will be solved by replication, which I am going to do.
I will keep trying though.
If anyone has any advice, please let me know.
Thank you,
Joe Grisaffi
Houston TX

You may want to lower your bitrates and audio rates. They seem high, and I am not sure how much the extra material is that you have (in running time), it looks like about 40 to 50 minutes, so total time of about 2 hours or so? The rate may just be too high for the player to handle. Depending on the material (fast action vs seaking engagement for instance) you should be able to get this on a DVD 5.
Make sure you also use DVD+R DL discs, they are the most compatible. I burn a ton of them and do not have issues playing them back. Use them all the time for proofing and testing prior to going to replication.
As to it not starting properly, some players can get a little finicky. A good practice is to start the DVD with 3 -5 seconds of black, usually in VTS 1 (when you look at the video layout). Also, do you have each clip on seperate tracks or one long track.
As to DLTs, replicators are now accepting USB files also with a "Tape Image" layout on them

Dual Layer Dvds - bad compression, or something worse?

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