NTSC - PAL colors conversion for betacam

I need to get a video file that is NTSC (no compression 8bit) into PAL (no compression 8bit) to edit it in Final cut pro 5.1.4 and to put titles from Motion, to finally put it on a betacam tape. To be shure that the conversion (NTSC-PAL) is well done, I gave the NTSC file to a professionel conversion compagny. (I tried to do it myself with compressor and with the plug-in natress, but was not completly satisfied with the result).
Now my problem is that the conversion company didn't compensate the modification of colors during the conversion. So now I have a file in pal (no compression 8bit) but the colors are lighter then the original file in NTSC.
Can someone tip me on a way to modify the colors in Final cut pro of my file in PAL? I know how to use most of the filters, but I don't now much about doing it professionally. I was hoping that there could be a filter or a plugin that is made for my kind of problem, and I'm afraid of making a mistake because I never prepaired a file for a betacam tape before. Do I have to be carefull with the percentage of black or of white? Do I have to work in RGB or YUV?
My second question is: the video PAL that was converted from NTSC has lines where there is quick movement when I look at it in Final cut pro or Quicktime. (the original NTSC file didn't have them) Should I use a filter to desinterlace it or will these lines disapear any way on the betcam tape? But I'm puting titles with Motion, so those titles don't have lines... How will they mix with the video?
Thanks for your help
Louie

Hi mish,
that is such a .. <searching correct english word> hillarious (?) idea, I give you a star for that ;-)))
changing some flags on a ready-made dvd... wow! nice try...- but as Fred said, NTSC<<>>PAL conversions are no trivial tasks... you run into many problems, e.g. where do you get the additonal 5 frames per second you need for a transfer from PAL to NTSC? how to make the audio fit to these new pictures? and, I HAVE to do this silly joke: NTSC has a very different color concept (Never The Same Color) then PAL.. and for sure a different res...
the name is irritating, but all mighty JES Deinterlacer is doing a fantastic job in converting video standards (ok, for a free software solution...) give that a try!

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G'day,
Long shot I know... but after opening my TAM on the weekend, and examining the TV/FM tuner card, I saw it was a Philips brand card. So I wrote to Philips Australia to see if they happened to have any laying around.
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Hello All
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Searching through the Net I just found out, that somebody had the same idea using IFOedit (the PC equivalent to myDVDedit) and that the results were mixed, but there were a lot of users that shouted: "great, this works".
Getting a bit confused now, as i had thought this over after my own experiment and had come to the conclusion that it couldn't possibly work.
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viva la mela

Hi mish,
that is such a .. <searching correct english word> hillarious (?) idea, I give you a star for that ;-)))
changing some flags on a ready-made dvd... wow! nice try...- but as Fred said, NTSC<<>>PAL conversions are no trivial tasks... you run into many problems, e.g. where do you get the additonal 5 frames per second you need for a transfer from PAL to NTSC? how to make the audio fit to these new pictures? and, I HAVE to do this silly joke: NTSC has a very different color concept (Never The Same Color) then PAL.. and for sure a different res...
the name is irritating, but all mighty JES Deinterlacer is doing a fantastic job in converting video standards (ok, for a free software solution...) give that a try!

NTSC/PAL conversion question

On my vacation I took a lot of video clips with my digital camera, and made them into a movie. However, some of the people I want to send a movie to are in Europe/Africa, and need to view it in PAL format. When I made the movie, I did it in NTSC, format. When I transfer to iDVD, do I need to change the format in iMovie or in iDVD? If I have to do it in iMovie, do I have to completely redo the whole thing? Or is there a way to just convert the present NTSC version to the PAL version? If so, how? (I solved by lack of hard drive space by getting a new hard drive placed in my Power Mac-now have 100GB).

Hi dianeh,
most many/all dvdplayers over here are able to
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second:
export whole project as QT dv stream (1h = 13GB)...
import that into JES Deinterlacer, for free
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html
choose conversion NTSC>PAL
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import THAT into iDVD
burn PAL version.......
hope I could be helpful
Tank you-I'll give it a try!!

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As I understand it, when I make a new CMYK swatch in InDesign and type my recipe in, Adobe converts it to LAB and that is the number that is used behind the scenes to convert to RGB or to different CMYK profiles. Curiosity question: does the software reference the ICC profile that is set as the working space in order to make that initial CMYK to LAB conversion? Also, is it known if the software preserves and uses the numbers to the right of the decimal points for CMYK and LAB values, or does it all get rounded off? And finally, going far into the weeds: is it known what rendering intent is used?

Starting with last question first, the rendering intent is what you choose in Photoshop > Edit > Color Settings. At the top of the dialog box there in Photoshop are your choices for what color model your CMYK and RGB should be expressed in. These become the working color spaces for CMYK and for RGB. Working spaces imply that whatever picture you open and edit in Photoshop, it takes on this ICC profile of color model. Having a same choice from Photoshop for ICC color model means consistency in interpreting color, file after file. Near the bottom of the expanded Color Settings dialog box is the Rendering Intent, which is usually set to Relative Colorimetric.
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If the Photoshop file being placed into InDesign already has the house-rules color space profile, it passes straight into InDesign without being re-interpreted/re-translated. (Like having a Smart Tag that allows you to drive through the toll-booth of the interstate. Like having a passport and express check-in at the airport. No need to re-examine you; you are already cleared. These are illustrations, by the way!)
Yes (your second question), ACE, in a behind-the-scenes support operation, checks all ICC color profile "passports" to see whether you need translating prior to entry, or merely waved through into InDesign. If the picture file already has the same working space as defined in Photoshop, it is allowed in unchanged. If the picture file doesn't have the same house color space, it is translated to the working color space, and allowed in afterwards. You might liken it to being issued a temporary passport. Do numbers get rounded off? Yes and no. Visual colors that exist in both color realms can be translated with great precision. Visual colors outside of the gamut of the receiving color space will change a bit, which is to say their numbers also change a bit.
As to your first question, is LAB at the center of things? Yes, in Photoshop. Lab color mode is the closest thing to a number system that consistently matches human visual color perception. Photoshop natively thinks in Lab, and translates out to all other color models, especially RGB and CMYK. Make sure to always run your pictures through Photoshop first (I like it's color management policies to force a permanent change to the house color space by choosing Conver to Working RGB/CMYK). After that, you place them into InDesign. In this way, all pictures already have a SpeedPass, so to speak, and InDesign does not re-translate the color. InDesign does not handle the Lab numbers, but is rather given the resulting conversion numbers by the translator, ACE, (if it needs to) working behind the suite of four softwares.
You might enjoy reading the book: Real World Color Management by Fraser, Murphy, and Bunting, and really geek out on this sort of thing.
Hope this helps,
Mike Witherell in Maryland

Choosing profiles for forced RGB to CMYK color conversion

When a mixed RGB/CMYK PDF is opened in Illustrator CS6, Illustrator forces a conversion to one color space or the other. See this screenshot: http://imgur.com/sK8iEdn
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Making some menus for a DVD. Original stills started out in AdobeRGB color space, but the designer converted them to sRGB, which shifted the colors and reduced the gamut.
When the images are authored, I assume they are converted to an NTSC or PAL color space. How does this space compare to sRGB? If the NTSC and PAL gamuts are smaller than sRGB than it doesnt matter, but if they are larger/different, than I think the designer needs to go back to the original AdobeRGB images.
Anyone have a clue about this?
thanks...

I was having a similar problem where there was a color disparity between the still images viewed in Photoshop and the same image viewed in FCP / DVDSP. The little info I have found so far indicates that DVDs use the Generic RGB profile. My results confirmed this. When I converted the working profile of the still images from sRGB to Generic RGB and then updated the media in FCP and DVDSP the results were much better.

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Quick background. We have a 6 short film (6 DVD) series that's currently a product in the US. The features were shot on RED, we created our SD DVD streams using compressor out of FCP. The behind the scenes and special features footage was all shot on 720P DVCPRO HD, again compressed to mpeg2 from FCP using compressor. Our end product obviously is an authored, SD DVD using DVDSP.
This product is going to be released in South Africa, and other parts of the world that use PAL.
I have been told that if the DVD is set up for multi region, then any PAL DVD player/TV will play an NTSC disc perfectly. Is this true?
It is either that, or go back to the FCP source files and convert the streams to PAL, I have been told to use good hardware as the software conversions are not that good. Setting up a totally different PAL project/set of discs is going to be a lot of work...
thoughts/advice?

I have been told that if the DVD is set up for multi region, then any PAL DVD player/TV will play an NTSC disc perfectly. Is this true?
About 99% true. Some older lower priced (8 years and more) PAL DVD players won't playback NTSC.
I have a Sony that is 10 years old and plays NTSC, although it was top of the line at the time.
If you do decide to go to standards conversion for that remaining 1%, find someone with Terranex or Snell & Wilcox hardware. Real time conversion and excellent results. Shop around for a good price.

Ntsc pal post production

I've sent a handful of NTSC documentaries (only for viewing) to PAL countries, but never thought what kind of glitches they may have encountered. Are there any audio/video blips or other artifacts that arise?

Hi Chris,
just got an NTSC-tape today, and since I'm in PAL-land and we only have PAL decks, I couldn't use it and had to send it to a post-facility that will do a format conversion for me.
Depends on what you sent them. If it was a DVD, chances are they'll be able to watch is, since NTSC DVDs quite often play in PAL DVD players (not vice versa, unfortunately).
If it's a Beta or DigiBeta tape, then they probably won't hear sound once they try sticking it into the PAL deck and it will play a bit too slowlya. Plus, you'll get artifacts and funny lines (but not as funny as in a Woody Allen film). Well, at least that's what happened to me.
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Fcp.. ntsc- pal

Hi everyone, I'm using fcp 8 to start off with. I had a customer ask me if I can make a ntsc video into pal so she can send it to her relatives in europe. I still have the project in fcp. Is this done during the export or is it done in idvd? thanks for your help.

As a QuickTime file?
The TV Standard does not matter. Computers don't care whether it is NTSC or PAL.
Does she want to send a DVD?
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If you must convert, Compressor can do it -although it will take a very long time to process.
There's no such thing as FCP 8 -maybe in 2011.

Used to, but now can't detect a NTSC/PAL external monitor.

This has come up in this forum as well as others in the past. Here is the syndrome:
1. iBook (or other) is hooked up to an external NTSC/PAL monitor (in my case a Sumsung LCD TV) via the mini-VGA/S-Video out.
2. Works perfectly for some period of time, days to years, as far as I've seen people post.
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5. This doesn't go away, and no one has found a way to make it go away.
Anyone figure out what the crap is going on with this? ANYONE HAVE A SOLUTION???

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NTSC - PAL colors conversion for betacam

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