When to set white/black point

Hello,
My apologies if this is a dumb question.
I am new to Photoshop and am making a start on tidying up all my photos. I am keen to establish a good workflow but am unsure on which steps to take first.
At the moment after opening up my image in Photoshop, I first check the histogram and then if necessary use the sliders in Levels to make any adjustments.
I've started trying to set the white/black point values too but am unsure as to when to set them. Please can anyone tell me whether I should take a sample of each at the very beginning before I make any adjustments or at the very end.
Many thanks.

First of all one should apply Adjustments as Adjustment Layers and the fewer the better as regards potential banding (but this can occasionally be alleviated by switching the layered version to 16bit).
It may be a matter of taste, but if one does use the white- and black point I’d rather have it used at the beginning (or farther down below as an Adjustment Layer).
Additionally I’d recommend trying to do as much of the global Adjustments as possible with a single (Curves-) Adjustment Layer.

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Setting White/Black Points using the Tone Curve

I'm trying to set white/black points using the tone curve, but when I try to slide either of the end points of the line in the tone curve tool I can't get them to move. Could those be locked somehow...?

That's what it is supposed to do. Without the sliders, you are working with the curve itself. Now you have direct control of the curve, and can drag any part of it. Have you considered setting your white and black points using the whites and blacks in the basic panel while holding down the alt/opt key? I suppose the reason it says point curve is because that icon is what you used to switch to the point curve.

Setting White, Mid and Black Points in Camera Raw 7

I am using Camera Raw 7 and can not seem to locate where can you set the white, mid, and black points in Camera Raw with the eyedropper tool. It seems you have to create a new psd file in Photoshop to do this, which does not make much sense since it is a basic levels adjustment. I am batch editing a bunch of CR2 files, and I just need to select the black, mid and white points on a grayscale that I've shot in the images - is there a way to do this in Camera Raw 7? Thanks!!

ACR doesn’t work that way. There is an eyedropper for the overall white-balance that you can set by clicking on a relatively bright, neutral area, but there aren’t black and white-point eyedroppers. But, what is clipped black or white is determined by the output colorspace you have set at the bottom and you can get some idea of what will be clipped black and white by turning on the clipping indicators and watching for the areas you’d be eye-droppering on (the black and white patches in your grayscale) to start showing the clipping color overlay for black and white, but any further toning adjustments will move data in and out of what is darker than black and lighter than white so what is clipped for output will change as you fiddle with the various toning sliders.
The reason things are different: In PS, when you set a black-point and white-point in Levels and click Ok, the data below and above those is thrown away and that is the starting point for the next adjustment. In ACR, things are non-destructive and all the adjustments occur simultaneously, rather than sequentially as in PS, and no clipping occurs until you create the output file. This means that the pixels that are darker than your black-point and lighter than your white-point are still there, and can be moved into the black-to-white range if you do further toning adjustments. Having more headroom of the pixels that are outside the black-to-white range is good because you won’t get the posterization or banding that occurs when colors and levels are clipped after each adjustment in PS.
Can you describe what you intend your overall workflow to be on an image: how much adjusting will occur in ACR and how much, if any, might happen in PS, after the image is opened into PS from ACR, or opened from a file saved from ACR? There might be other ways to approach what you’re trying to accomplish.

Setting White Points in Camera Raw

When setting white points in Adobe Camera Raw, while holding down Alt (on a PC), are the red marks what I should look for? Because white marks also appear? Which ones are relevant for the white point?

ACR doesn’t work that way. There is an eyedropper for the overall white-balance that you can set by clicking on a relatively bright, neutral area, but there aren’t black and white-point eyedroppers. But, what is clipped black or white is determined by the output colorspace you have set at the bottom and you can get some idea of what will be clipped black and white by turning on the clipping indicators and watching for the areas you’d be eye-droppering on (the black and white patches in your grayscale) to start showing the clipping color overlay for black and white, but any further toning adjustments will move data in and out of what is darker than black and lighter than white so what is clipped for output will change as you fiddle with the various toning sliders.
The reason things are different: In PS, when you set a black-point and white-point in Levels and click Ok, the data below and above those is thrown away and that is the starting point for the next adjustment. In ACR, things are non-destructive and all the adjustments occur simultaneously, rather than sequentially as in PS, and no clipping occurs until you create the output file. This means that the pixels that are darker than your black-point and lighter than your white-point are still there, and can be moved into the black-to-white range if you do further toning adjustments. Having more headroom of the pixels that are outside the black-to-white range is good because you won’t get the posterization or banding that occurs when colors and levels are clipped after each adjustment in PS.
Can you describe what you intend your overall workflow to be on an image: how much adjusting will occur in ACR and how much, if any, might happen in PS, after the image is opened into PS from ACR, or opened from a file saved from ACR? There might be other ways to approach what you’re trying to accomplish.

Setting the Black or White point in LR Mobile

In desktop LR, you can hold down the Alt (Option) key while moving the Black or White Slider in the Develop module to set the Black Point or White Point. Is there an equivalent action in LR Mobile? What is it?

Slide the Black or White Slider in Lightroom mobile with two fingers instead of one.

Establishing White Point and Black Point

Hi,
How do I Establishing a White Point and a Black Point in Lightroom 1.4.1 and especially in Lightroom 2 Bata?
Thank You,
Hersul

The last post by OP might have closed this thread, but given the relative lack of activity on this and LR2 forums (summertime?) - I'll go a little deeper.
i White point
- If your white balance is right from the start, you just use the Exposure slider to set the white point. If not, first set the white balance - that effectively sets a preliminary white point for each channel separately, or, to be more precise, matches the right side of the histogram for each channel - then set the Exposure. So, with the white point you have complete control over the histogram, as well as over each channel.
i Black point
- here the situation is different. You can move the left side of the main (composite?) histogram using the Blacks slider, but there's no means for moving channels separately. In theory, with digital capture, there probably should not be need for this, blacks should be always black, so that's OK, but...
I once had a batch of pics scanned from film. The film was poorly developed so it has some strong brown-magenta cast in the shadows. In Photoshop it was a piece of cake to set the black point by dragging the left ends of each channel to the left edge of the histogram (heck, even Auto Level did a wonderful job). In Lightroom, there's just no way you can correct this, because you can't control the channels separately.

Set Black Point to 0 by default in Aperture 2.x?

Hello
(First post - have lurked a little on here for a while, but have not had a question of my own until now)
Has anyone found a way to set the Black Point slider on the Exposure brick (or any other slider for that matter) to zero as a default? Otherwise, with the Exposure control is off a Black Point of 3 is applied, which clips my images.
(by a happy miracle, my camera gets the black point right most of the time, provided I set it right)
So far I've had to create an image with my preferred 'flat' settings to Lift & Stamp across to new imports, or create a preset for the Exposure brick that then has to be manually applied, and both of these methods seem rather clunky for a Pro app. I'm not averse to hacking text files, if that is what it takes...
Thanks,
Matt

I'd like to know as well, is there a way to set the default black point to zero instead of the 3.00?

Black point

Hi,
After upgrading Aperture to 3.3 all my photo's appear be less bright in "view" mode. Also photo is indicated as too much black, which cann't be adjusted via the black point key in the adjustment field. Anyone got this problem also?
regards, Arnold

Arnold,
you can now adjust the brightness individually for the Viewer and the Browser in the Preferences;
Preferences > Appearance
Adjust the "Viewer Brightness" slider and the "Full Screen Brightness" slider. Does this help?
Added: How do you try to set the Black Point? In the "Exposure" brick? Have you tried to type directly into the number field besides the black point slider? In what way does i not work for you?
Regards
Léonie

Setting the zero point to an exact integer

When I set the zero point to an intersection of two guide lines, I often find that it is out by exactly 0.088mm. How can I set the zero point to an exact number of mm?

There aren't any frames involved. If the zero point is at the top left corner and I insert horizontal and vertical guides at, say, 10mm in from top and left side, then drag the zero point to the intersection of the two guides, clicking on the two guides reveals that they are now at -0.088 instead of zero. I accept that 0.088mm is not a huge error, but it still niggles me.

When I set black point on windows, the image switches between blank and full image, why?

when I set black point using windows, the image switches between blank and full image, why?

I set black point with alt button down while I move sllider. When black
dots show, I stop and back off a bit. That's the normal result. Normally a
white screen appears until I release the alt key. In my case, sometimes the
screen goes from white to full image. It's not all the time. I view my
power and ram use as I work and it doesn't spike when this happens. It's
as if the alt key command is not holding. I've used both alt keys with
same results.
Thanks for responding. I hope you have some ideas.

When I create an album and then try to watch it in slideshow, I get only a black screen with a white title. No photos come up. Also when I click on an individual photo in the album, I get a white exclamation point on a black background but no big photo.

When I create an album of photos and then open the album and try to watch it by selecting "slideshow" I get only a black screen. The white title comes up briefly but then no photos, only a black screen. Also when I go back to the album and click on a thumbnail, up comes a big white exclamation point on a black background instead of the enlarged photo. Any idea what's going on?

The ! turns up when iPhoto loses the connection between the thumbnail in the iPhoto Window and the file it represents.
Option 1
Back Up and try rebuild the library: hold down the command and option (or alt) keys while launching iPhoto. Use the resulting dialogue to rebuild. Choose to Rebuild iPhoto Library Database from automatic backup.
If that fails:
Option 2
Download iPhoto Library Manager and use its rebuild function. This will create a new library based on data in the albumdata.xml file. Not everything will be brought over - no slideshows, books or calendars, for instance - but it should get all your albums and keywords back.
Because this process creates an entirely new library and leaves your old one untouched, it is non-destructive, and if you're not happy with the results you can simply return to your old one. .
Regards
TD

Setting a White Point and Black Point

I would like to suggest for future versions of lIghtroom to have an ability to set the white point and black points similar to levels and curves in Photoshop. This would be in addition to setting middle grey in the white balance settings currently in Lightroom. I find that the method of using Threshold to find the closest white and black pixels and then using these points to set the black and white points in curves or levels provides a better way to fix a color cast than the methods available in Lightroom.

MB,
There is no real need for Black and White point eyedropper type tools in Lightroom. By holding down the Alt key while changing the Blacks or Exposure sliders the display will show the areas that are being clipped. This is much faster than looking around for the darkest and lightest areas manually. If you just like to click to taste (like using the White balance dropper) then forget the Alt key and just move the sliders until you get the desired look.
Remember that the problem with Photoshop is that there are so many ways to do the same thing that it has become difficult and bloated. Lightroom strives to keep the interface as clear as possible.

Automatically set the Black and the White points in Aperture?

Jasoninajeep, in this thread, refers to this Aperture Export article, which includes the helpful hint that holding "{Option}" while clicking the auto-luminance button in the Curves brick will cause Aperture to set the Black and the White points without making any other changes.
Is there any other way to automatically set the Black and the White points in Aperture?
Thanks.

Hi BBurgess!
Unfortunately, it sounds like you may have a service issue on your hands. While our QuickStart guide provides details on installing the cartridges in their respective slots, putting those catridges in the wrong position may cause an internal issue with the Canon PiXMA MG3222.
We recommend contacting our Technical Support group directly via this Contact Us link. Our Technical Support group can provide you with all available service options.
Thanks!

Setting white point in LR

I'm almost sure I'm missing something but I cannot find a solution. I'm using LR (currently 2.2) for quite a while (since 1.2) but I simply cannot find an easy, user friedly and predictable way how to set a white point of edited pictures.
In PS, CR, DPP and most other editing SW and RAW processors, there two typical easy tools how to set the white point.
1) a white point picker which (when used) defines a desired tone as white and the relevant SW then redistributes the tones accordingly;
2) in "levels" or "curves" dialog (or their equivalents it is possible to move the "White level" treshold below which the remaining tones are redistributed accordingly - the iterface varies (sometimes it is the border of the histogram or curve diagram that can be moved (DPP), sometimes it is the slider in histogram or curve diagram setting this limit
botw ways generally lead to the same and quite uniform result. I.e. I'm usually able to get almost identical result by setting white point in PS, DPP, CR, .... and other SW by such simple operation when working over identical picture data.
However in LR it is virtually impossible to achieve similar result in LR. No white point picker, no slider enabling setting the white limit, no chance to move borders in the histogram chart. The only available tools for this purpose are
"Exposure" and "Brightness". None of them providing for the desired functionality alone - their combination giving sometimes acceptable but hardly predictable results (definitely not as predictable as achieved e.g. in PS by simple and single move of white limit slider in "level" dialogue or equivalent step in CR.
Do I really miss something important (I hope so) in this respect or is LR completly lacking this (for me really core/basic) functionality present in all other photo and RAW editting SW I know - even from Adobe?
thanks

I agree with the original poster - I find it troublesome to set the white point in an image. In a situation where a traditional (PS, Aperture) levels control would make it convenient to push a particular tone to white, I find myself going back and forth between exposure and the tone curve a fair amount. Another description of what I want, effectively, is a 'recovery' slider that goes up as well as down.
(See end of post for replies to a few specific points.)
An example:
Here is the original image, with its histogram and tone curve - black to middle gray:
I want to push the small hatch/door to white, but that also overexposes my middle grays (I haven't yet touched the tone curve):
So now I go to the tone curve, and pull down both darks and lights:
However, at this point I've lost my whites (they are not quite clipped any more); and probably more importantly, since the tone curve is at the extreme low values, I have little working room or control.
Rather than working together or providing complementary functions, in this case exposure and the tone curve, to me, seem to be fighting; it requires back-and-forth to get the desired effect.
(To be clear, most of the time - that is, when my white point starts out more or less where I want it - being able to drag the histogram and smoothly-transitioned segments of the tone curve is brilliantly easy and useful. It's specifically the exposure control's nonlinear behavior/effect that I dislike, as it makes it difficult to adjust near-white tones.)
Responding to specifics:
> Also, hold the ALT key (David Edwards)
Cool! (However, not a fix for this issue.)
> the controls themselves are not linear (Lee Jay)
> attempts to preserve highlights (Lee Jay)
> the exposure slider is almost exactly equivalent to the white point slider in Photoshop's levels/curves (Joa V. L.)
I think this is the root of the issue, for me - the exposure control is being intelligent in a way to protect hilights, which is counter to my intent. My experience leads me to disagree strongly with Joa's comment (though I would be very happy to discover I was wrong) - my problem is specifically that adjusting exposure up (brightening the image with exposure) affects tones less, the brighter they are.
> I need to decrease the Brightness (Henry_Deer)
> you may need to generate a higher-contrast tone curve and work with that (Lee Jay)
The brightness adjustment seems analogous to my use of the tone curve, though it's an alternate approach I haven't tried. However, both seem to suffer from the 'several rounds' problem.
Edited to reply to a few specific points

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When to set white/black point

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