Hvx200 1080i 24p Footage not Properly Reverse Telecining

So I've got a bunch of footage that we shot using the 1080i 24p setting on the hvx200 which yielded 24-in-60 footage, which normally isn't a problem and the other 2 cameras we were shooting (an hv20 and hg10, both in 24p mode) produce the same kind of files. after batching everything out to compressor to remove the telecine, and convert to 1920x1080 prores, i just discovered that all the HVX footage is true 24p, but didn't remove the pulldown correctly, and most every frame is now interlaced.
I'm trying to figure out if it's a compressor issue, a dvchdpro issue, or a computer/install issue. I've had some QT plug-ins that break the reverse telecine function, but considering the hv20 and hg10 footage converted just fine i don't think it's that.
also, after trying to convert to directly to prores and run through cinema tools to do a manual RT, i don't get the option to RT. and lastly using JES Deinterlacer when i set it up and submit i get a "cadence not found" error. it's also is reading the file as progressive when i first put it in JES.
I've also tried running the RT through final cut directly as some of those old pany cams have RT flags and FCP can handle the RT process internally.
Any thoughts anyone? has anyone ever run 1080i 24p footage through compressor and achieved a true 24p framerate, or do i have an isolated instance here?

so after sleeping on the problem, i took the footage and ran compressed it out to prores422, this time making sure to select a frame rate of 29.97 AND checking the "interlaced" button on the codec page. after batching the footage to make it true 60i, i then ran it through compressor again to remove the pulldown, and everything worked as it should. I think the problem arose from the footage reporting itself as DVCHD PRO 30P instead of 60i, and compressor wasn't seeing any fields and therefor not seeing any cadence

Similar Messages

24p reverse telecine

I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

workflow:
shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
import/transfer P2 files into FCP
Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

Problems with reverse telecine in Cinema tools

I am trying to reverse telecine some 24p footage I shot on a panasonic dvx. I have captured several tapes of footage in FCP 7 (as 29.97 footage to get the full data stream), then I have been sending clips to cinema tools to be reverse telecined, then bringing them back into FCP and editing on a 23.98 timeline. So far, I have used this workflow with three of my tapes and they all look fine in the end, but with one tape in particular I took all of the same steps but am having problems. When I bring clips from that tape into cinema tools and select "reverse telecine" it seems as if Cinema Tools is working and processing the footage, but at the very end the window with that clip suddenly disappears and no .rev file of the footage is created. Cinema tools remains open, only that window with the footage that was being processed is gone. I have tried recapturing the footage, renaming it, and double-checking my capture settings in FCP but have yet to figure out why these clips from this tape in particular will not be reverse telecined. Any suggestions about what I could be doing wrong?

I am almost positive I shot them the exact way, although the scene file dial on the dvx is pretty easily changed, so maybe if I bumped it during filming...
So to check, I looked at the footage before it was reverse telecined on an external moniter and it looks the same as all my other footage--with about 2 interlaced frames for every five frames. Is there another way I could check?
I'll try your compressor idea and see if that will remove the 3:2 pulldown! Thanks for the advice!

Reverse telecine but footage too fast

Ola,
Here's my problem:
Captured 24p footage, reverse telecined it to 23.98. looks great, but 30% faster than before. Is there a way to change the speed to the original, either in Cinema Tools or FCP?
A.

I recall reading on here that Cinema Tools does not like reversing any clips larger than 5GBs. Since your 30 minute clip (6GBs DV) went through fine, it may not be the case, however it still could be. 40 minutes is 8GBs and might be too much. I had this same problem and had to perform a work around.
I exported smaller chunks of the big clips via Final Cut Pro as full quality DV movies, brought those into Cinema Tools, reversed them and then brought them back into Final Cut for editing.
That "not enough memory" error has been the bane of my existence and I still haven't figured out what exactly causes it or what the perfect solution is.

Reverse Telecine DVCProHD 1080/60i 24p Problems!

Heres what happened.
1. Captured DVCProHD 1080/60i footage shot in 24P.
2. Edited footage in 29.97 rate.
3. Realized Pulldown was never removed.
4. Selected the bin with all original media, and then selected "tools" menu and "Remove advanced pulldown"
5. FCP6 batch processed for a while. clip by clip.
6. after process was finished a few clips per bin are offline.
7. FCP will not "reconnect" these offline clips.
8. FCP will not import these clips when accessed through the finder (drag and drop to the bin).
What happened? I need to reimport these clips. I would appreciate any and all help.
Heres more info...
1. the clips that processed properly show 23.98 when getting "item properties>format"
2. offline clips open/play in Quicktime.
3. when importing offline clips, FCP gives incompatible/unsupported error.
4. in finder duplicating and renaming offline clip doesnt work.
5. exporting offline clip to another DVCProHD clip doesnt work.
thank you for reading.

Wish I could help, but can only post that I too am having problems with progressive footage.
Heres what happened for me.
1. Captured DVCProHD 1080/60P footage shot in 24P.
2. Edited footage in 59.94 rate.
3. Realized Pulldown was never removed.
4. Selected original media, and then selected "tools" menu and "Remove advanced pulldown"
5. Got error stating footage not DVCProHD (which it is).
6. Tried DVCPro frame rate converter > 23.98 (tried all variables)
7. At the end of processing clips I get the incompatible/unsupported error.
Did you try the frame rate converter? This option seems great with the ref video option.

TRIED EVERYTHING/NO LUCK with Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools 29.97 to 24p

I read an article that was on Ken Stones site. It said that, basically you CAN'T
take a clip that is at 29.97 and has 3:2 pulldown in it, and get it to actual 24 progressive frames? Is this true? Has ANYONE out there actually removed pulldown CORRECTLY with footage shot at 24, then transferred to 29.97?
I've tried all options with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine, and I always wind up with some interlacing.
My QT clip has a 3:2 cadence, one can frame through it and see this.
Am I missing something here? Does anyone know a procedure that can get me to 24 progressive frames. Is there a 3rd party piece of software out there?
Any relies appreciated.
G5 2.3 early Mac OS X (10.4.7) Cinema Tools V 3.1.1
G5 2.3 Mac OS X (10.3.8) Cinema Tools V3.1.1 QT V7.1.2 FCP V5.1.1

Well then, that is your problem. Those aren't reverse telecin-able. What are reversable are DV tapes that you captured at 29.97...in the DV/NTSC codec.
Are you working with Digital Intermediates? Or footage telecined to tape?
Typical Telecine to Tape workflow is:
Telecine to DVCAM
Lab provides DVCAM and Flex file to you.
Open Cinema Tools. Import Flex file and export batch Capture list.
Import batch capture list into FCP.
Batch Capture the DV footage.
Reverse telecine the footage with Cinema Tools.
Edit.
What exactly are you doing? Where did these files come from? What is your workflow?
Shane

Not allowed to import 24p footage

Hi in iMovie 08 I could import 24p footage but with iMovie 09 it wont let me. What gives

From what I recall iMovie has never supported 24p playback. Go to iMovie's preferences, (any version of iMovie) and look at the video standards drop down list. You will only see 30fps and 25fps. So even if you could get 24p content into iMovie '09, you'll probably have problems with it when you make projects.
24p has always been a pro-sumer and professional format. To properly edit this footage you'll need software that has this playback and editing mode. Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro are you best options for this.

C300 footage does not properly import, video playback in Premiere is frozen or just a red screen

After working with C300 footage for about 6 months now, this is the first time I've encountered this issue, and I haven't done anything differently with this project to my knowledge.
I am working with some C300 footage (not much, not even a full 32gb card), and when I bring it into Premiere some, but not all, of the clips aren't able to play back. In some cases the video will freeze on a frame while the audio continues playing, in other cases I'll just get a red frame while the audio plays. In all cases, the audio playback is fine, no issues.
The issue only occurs on longer, interview clips. I haven't had any issues with clips less than about 1-2 minutes in length. When I get the frozen or red screen, it will stay frozen or red for a while, upwards of a minute or a couple minutes, before the video comes back towards the end of the clip. This is pretty inconsistent though, I haven't noticed a pattern.
It doesn't matter whether the footage is rendered or not, issue remains the same. Nor is it an issue with lagging playback, if I pause the clip when the red screen comes up and wait it never catches up, never unfreezes. I have tried importing the footage multiple ways: dragging into the project from Finder; navigating through Premiere's media browser; going to File>Import. Same issue every time for the same clips.
If I try to export the clip, same issue. If I try to bring the footage straight from Finder into Media Encoder to output a ProRes422 version, same issue.
However, if I take the card structure, and copy it back onto a CF card and pop it into my C300, it plays back just fine. No red frames, no freezing, no issues. So it's not a corrupted card and it's not like I lost any data when copying from the card to computer.
I'm working with Premiere CC 2014 on a 2012 Macbook Pro (2.6ghz i7, 16gb RAM, 2gb VRAM), I've tried using OpenCL, CUDA and software only as the renderer, same issue with everything. I have also tried multiple computers with the same issue.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Sam

I can answer part of your comment ... PrPro is a beast of a complex and capable program, compared especially to VLC, a simple playback program. VLC takes the data off the drive and just plays it back ... PrPro takes the data from the drive as only a starting point, applies whatever changes have occurred in the timeline for clips & cuts, transitions, video & audio effects, and plays the RESULT of all that back in as close as possible to real-time. Each and every time through is a "new" compilation of data. Unless you specifically render previews for a selection, it's always "showtime" ... live processing of original with all modifications.
Part of the complexity of the program underlying the work is the built-in system to incorporate changes from AfterEffects, Audition, and SpeedGrade ... also as much in "real time" as possible, and again, without completely re-creating the new sequence as a "physical" file stored on disc somewhere. No other programs out there do that. It makes these more complicated & more complex in the code, and more demanding of system resources in many ways.
But as they are constantly working to improve the actual operation, far more capable. I'm a one-man operation, and most of the time my stuff flies through the combo of PrPro & Sg, with some Audition work thrown into most projects. Occasional trips to A3. Yes, I get glitches occasionally. No, my projects aren't 30-second but INCREDIBLY complex opening scenes for CNN or ESPN or someone, nor a modern complex commercial shot or a music video. Or ... Heavens ... a 130 minute feature.
Yet I know of quite a few people who do such work and mostly get through their projects in quite good shape, some of whom help out here regularly. It's a total bummer when YOUR machine is the one glitching. I understand. Right now, mine has pretty much stopped using my GTX770 video card and its 4GB vRAM, more than 29% of CPU, nor more than about 6.5GB of system RAM. Which as you might guess, slows down my playback & renders exponentially. I'll get it handled. But it's been a month or so.
The vast majority of users are NOT having this problem. Wish I was one of them, as do you. Best of luck getting this moving ...
Neil

1080i/24p to Film Out in Final Cut Pro

A client of ours shot a project with the *Panasonic HVX-200* in 1080i/24p (not 1080i/24pa) and they are asking if they will have a problem with the footage when they output to film. They are using *Final Cut Studio 2* on an *8-core Mac Pro*.
I told them to use *Cinema Tools* to reverse telecine the 29.97 footage back to the native 24p and they shouldn't have problems. They said I was wrong and that frames would be lost in the process. (Which I know isn't how 3:2 pull-downs work) They also said that they did this before and the 1080i footage they got from the HVS-200 P2 cards and FS-100's were already in 24p format when transfered. Is there a way that this was possible or am I missing something here?
Thanks!

You are right, they are wrong, very, very, very wrong. I'm going to copy and paste from another thread I just answered about this same issue:
I am the author of the FS-100 DVD guide, work with Focus Enhancements closely, have many consulting clients using this system, and have been using the HVX200/FS-100/FCP system since the HVX200 shipped, and a cert'd trainer.
As for FCP, here's the workflow. To start, make sure your HVX is set to 1080i/24PA. If it is set to 1080i/24P, you won't get 24p, you'll get 60i with the 24P effect. Just like on the DVX100. 24P results in a native 60i with the 24P effect, as 24PA has metadata that allows it to become progressive and 24P native.
In FCP, bring in your footage with the Log & Transfer window, assuming you're on FCP 6. Any pre-6 version was super buggy with P2 data. Make sure the "remove advanced pulldown" is selected and import your footage. Ignore the "Compressor" that is referred to in the clips info (which is all the metadata), it will not say 1080p24, it only refers to the compression engine handling the footage, not the actual compression of the clip.
In your project, delete any Sequences you have, in the FCP menu go to Easy Setup, and choose "DVCPRO HD - 1080pA24". Create a new Sequence and you're good to go. Simple as that.
If you go to look at "Item Properties" for these clips, look at the "Vid Rate" field, it will be 24p. The "Compressor" field refers to an engine and has nothing to do with the actual format of the clip, ignore it. The 1080p30 you see as the "Compressor" simply means that the QuickTime 1080p30 engine is being used, and is perfectly capable of driving native 1080p24 footage.
The lines you're seeing on 1080p24 are interlace lines, and are normal, as 1080p24 is, again, 60i with the 24p "effect". You have to record in, and edit in 1080pA24. There's a big difference.

Reverse Telecine with Premiere Pro

Hi All,
I had digibeta tapes that I captured at 740x486 and the client wanted us to do a reverse telecine on them which I did by creating a 24p DV timeline, dropping the video in and than outputed the timesline with the settings of Prores HQ (required), 720x480, 23.976, Progressive, DV/D1 .9091. The output definite did not look interlaced but a couple issues
a) Media Inspector the progressive flag is not appearing. It does not read the video as progressive.
b) Opening it in QT player it stated it as 720x480(654x480) and I need the display ratio to be 640x480 not 654x480.
c) Last they commented "There might be clean aperture tag, but just let them know the clap tag must be removed." which I have no idea what they are talking about here and would like some insight.
Thank you all for reading and any help is deeply appreciated here.
-john

After you get the footage to 24 frames (23.976), will the video be identified by media inspector as progressive scan?
If you have properly removed the 3:2 pulldown, it should.
But, you can trust what Premiere tells you.
Select the clip in the Project Panel and check the 'Info':
The 'p' denotes progressive scan.
note:
I don't use media inspector (I'm on pc).

I give. No success with reverse telecine...

Here's the scenario...
I have footage that was shot on Super-8 and telecined to Mini-DV. I have no flex file, etc., and no specific cadence information.
One would assume that I could select an arbitrary frame and simple rotate through the obvious permutations (<F1-F1|F2-F1> <AA|BB|etc>) and end up with a properly reversed 24fps clips.
However, even the best results still exhibit interlacing artifacts every three frames.
I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that others have the same issue.
I'm placed a sample clip at...
http://nedron.net/av/revtc/00.dv
This is from the "master" Mini-DV tape and is about 25 meg.
Anyone with a broadband connection want to take a look and see if they can correctly reverse the telecine on this? Hopefully, using something relatively common like Cinema Tools or After Effects, etc. My hardware options are pretty limited for the time being.
-David

Try using the reverse telecine in Final Cut: Tools->Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine. I went through this with 1080i footage, not DV. Couldn't get a clean reverse out of CT directly. But this seemed to work. I suspect that FCP understands the pulldown correctly and then tells CT how to do it. But try it and see if it works for you. Just make sure you copy your original file and work on the copy in FCP, because CT will overwrite the file and there are no warnings or options. You should see the property of the clip change in FCP from 29.97 to 23.976. Then go through frame-by-frame and see if it worked.
Good luck!

Reverse Telecine affecting identical clips different ways

I haven't a clue on how to begin searching for this.
I recently had a problem trying to get my Sony HZ5U 24p footage to true 24p instead of 30. It was causing big confusion in Color, blending frames together. Even though I placed the footage in a 24p sequence, it would just frames in unnecessary spots. And Reverse Telecine wouldn't work on footage imported by HDV - 720p24.
I was able to import to HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24, Reverse Telecine, and add the clips into a HDV- 720p24 sequence to get the resolution I need...
Except there's a problem.
Something isn't working when I reverse telecine.
The clips I imported were all 2:3, two frames of the same then three others that were individual.
I "reversed" two clips which came out to 1:1 (I guess), no frames are duplicated. But a few of the clips I reversed came out to 2:2! There are two frames of the same then two others that are individual.
I'm not sure what is wrong. I didn't import with a different setting, I didn't change anything in Final Cut, I didn't adjust anything in Cinema Tools. I never filmed in a separate format...
I have a consistent segment I have to make each week for a program, and it's done this for the past three weeks. And on one of the clips (either the one with 1:1 or 2:2) after I send back from Color the audio is shifted off a few frames.
Why would Reverse Telecine give me different results in the same operation of the same format of video??

remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

Reverse telecine and final cut

hi. hope the gurus can help.
we shot a short with dvx 100a. we shot on 24p (NORMAL). I am trying to create a 23.98 workflow for the video. all the footage was captured in DV NTSC, and used cinema tools to Reverse Telecine. here come the issues: how do I know which "capture mode" the DVX uses? also which "Style." I tried different settings, and the strange part is that some settings work for some clips while others work for other clips, even though all clips were captured the same way. when i say worked, i mean some showed obvious "flicker" or "ghosting" and some were fantastic. all this on a 23.98 timeline in FCP.
please help,
thanks
liron

when i look at the counter on the original tape, how
would i be able to tell if it was shot in 24p or any
other settings?
yep, it's not in the manual and i found this one day long ago when i got my dvx just after they were first released: open the lcd and on the bottom towards the lens there is the counter button. with the camera in vtr mode and playing the tape, toggle that counter button and you'll get a wealth of info including what framerate the video was shot with.
as for the reverse telecine, how can one determine
what "capture mode" was used? apple suggests a burned
tc, but i do not have that off the dvx.
dude, as far as a reverse telecine, that is determined by which mode was used to photograph with the camera. with fcp 4 you only use cinema tools for 24p standard video but i understand with the latest version of cinema tools you can use for 24P and 24PA, but i've not tried this.
i'd advise you to do a little research. the fcp production studio has a great appendix on 24p material and also go here http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html and here http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
good luck.

Reverse Telecine Question (Cinema Tools)

Dear board members,
I have footage that was shot with Panasonic AG-HVX200 in 1080i60 (29.97fps), but with 24p function with a 2:3 pulldown. When I ingest it in FCP through Log and Transfer this footage (for some peculiar reason) shows up as 1080p30. I also need to remove pulldown to make it 24 (23,98) FPS.
My workaround is as follows:
1) I export these files from FCP as DVCPRO HD 1080i60 QT files.
2) then I send these new "masters" to Cinema Tools, where I do Reverse Telecine process.
The results looks fine, but I just want to double-check my settings in Cinema Tools, because the batch for this job contains thousands of clips and there is no room for mistake.
Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools settings:
Capture Mode:
Field 1 - Field 2
Fields:
AA
File:
New (smaller)
Frames:
Conform to: 23.98 FPS
Standard Upper/Lower: Checked
Thank you very much for your time and (hopefully) helpful comments.
Regards,
Tim

I just did a test yesterday with MXFX software and there is a visible recompression in the resulting file. I compared the same frame (from different clips) processed through Cinema Tools and MXFX and also compared it to the original frame and MXFX clearly does something to the image (recompression or noise reduction, whatever you want to call it). Contacted them about it, they said they will look at it. Anyhow, the result is pretty visible at 200% zoom. Anyhow, that made me decide against MXFX.
Thanks for a suggestion though.

Reverse Telecine...

Hello, I have a project that was shot on a XL2 in 24p. What I want to do is import the footage to an external drive and then reverse telecine it then edit it. How do I once I've imported the footage to the external drive do I reverse telecine it?
Thanks!

Broadcast how? Digibeta? Digibeta doesn't run at 23.98. HD does.
Getting 23.98 back to 29.97 is tricky, and if it works, it might not give a desired result.
My general rule is that if you shot 24p, then edit in a 29.97 timeline. 24PA is for the 23.98 timeline...and really meant for DVD, web and possible HD bump only. Not meant to go back to tape.
Shane

Hvx200 1080i 24p Footage not Properly Reverse Telecining

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