24p reverse telecine

I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

workflow:
shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
import/transfer P2 files into FCP
Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

Similar Messages

Hvx200 1080i 24p Footage not Properly Reverse Telecining

So I've got a bunch of footage that we shot using the 1080i 24p setting on the hvx200 which yielded 24-in-60 footage, which normally isn't a problem and the other 2 cameras we were shooting (an hv20 and hg10, both in 24p mode) produce the same kind of files. after batching everything out to compressor to remove the telecine, and convert to 1920x1080 prores, i just discovered that all the HVX footage is true 24p, but didn't remove the pulldown correctly, and most every frame is now interlaced.
I'm trying to figure out if it's a compressor issue, a dvchdpro issue, or a computer/install issue. I've had some QT plug-ins that break the reverse telecine function, but considering the hv20 and hg10 footage converted just fine i don't think it's that.
also, after trying to convert to directly to prores and run through cinema tools to do a manual RT, i don't get the option to RT. and lastly using JES Deinterlacer when i set it up and submit i get a "cadence not found" error. it's also is reading the file as progressive when i first put it in JES.
I've also tried running the RT through final cut directly as some of those old pany cams have RT flags and FCP can handle the RT process internally.
Any thoughts anyone? has anyone ever run 1080i 24p footage through compressor and achieved a true 24p framerate, or do i have an isolated instance here?

so after sleeping on the problem, i took the footage and ran compressed it out to prores422, this time making sure to select a frame rate of 29.97 AND checking the "interlaced" button on the codec page. after batching the footage to make it true 60i, i then ran it through compressor again to remove the pulldown, and everything worked as it should. I think the problem arose from the footage reporting itself as DVCHD PRO 30P instead of 60i, and compressor wasn't seeing any fields and therefor not seeing any cadence

TRIED EVERYTHING/NO LUCK with Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools 29.97 to 24p

I read an article that was on Ken Stones site. It said that, basically you CAN'T
take a clip that is at 29.97 and has 3:2 pulldown in it, and get it to actual 24 progressive frames? Is this true? Has ANYONE out there actually removed pulldown CORRECTLY with footage shot at 24, then transferred to 29.97?
I've tried all options with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine, and I always wind up with some interlacing.
My QT clip has a 3:2 cadence, one can frame through it and see this.
Am I missing something here? Does anyone know a procedure that can get me to 24 progressive frames. Is there a 3rd party piece of software out there?
Any relies appreciated.
G5 2.3 early Mac OS X (10.4.7) Cinema Tools V 3.1.1
G5 2.3 Mac OS X (10.3.8) Cinema Tools V3.1.1 QT V7.1.2 FCP V5.1.1

Well then, that is your problem. Those aren't reverse telecin-able. What are reversable are DV tapes that you captured at 29.97...in the DV/NTSC codec.
Are you working with Digital Intermediates? Or footage telecined to tape?
Typical Telecine to Tape workflow is:
Telecine to DVCAM
Lab provides DVCAM and Flex file to you.
Open Cinema Tools. Import Flex file and export batch Capture list.
Import batch capture list into FCP.
Batch Capture the DV footage.
Reverse telecine the footage with Cinema Tools.
Edit.
What exactly are you doing? Where did these files come from? What is your workflow?
Shane

Reverse Telecine affecting identical clips different ways

I haven't a clue on how to begin searching for this.
I recently had a problem trying to get my Sony HZ5U 24p footage to true 24p instead of 30. It was causing big confusion in Color, blending frames together. Even though I placed the footage in a 24p sequence, it would just frames in unnecessary spots. And Reverse Telecine wouldn't work on footage imported by HDV - 720p24.
I was able to import to HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24, Reverse Telecine, and add the clips into a HDV- 720p24 sequence to get the resolution I need...
Except there's a problem.
Something isn't working when I reverse telecine.
The clips I imported were all 2:3, two frames of the same then three others that were individual.
I "reversed" two clips which came out to 1:1 (I guess), no frames are duplicated. But a few of the clips I reversed came out to 2:2! There are two frames of the same then two others that are individual.
I'm not sure what is wrong. I didn't import with a different setting, I didn't change anything in Final Cut, I didn't adjust anything in Cinema Tools. I never filmed in a separate format...
I have a consistent segment I have to make each week for a program, and it's done this for the past three weeks. And on one of the clips (either the one with 1:1 or 2:2) after I send back from Color the audio is shifted off a few frames.
Why would Reverse Telecine give me different results in the same operation of the same format of video??

remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

Reverse telecine and final cut

hi. hope the gurus can help.
we shot a short with dvx 100a. we shot on 24p (NORMAL). I am trying to create a 23.98 workflow for the video. all the footage was captured in DV NTSC, and used cinema tools to Reverse Telecine. here come the issues: how do I know which "capture mode" the DVX uses? also which "Style." I tried different settings, and the strange part is that some settings work for some clips while others work for other clips, even though all clips were captured the same way. when i say worked, i mean some showed obvious "flicker" or "ghosting" and some were fantastic. all this on a 23.98 timeline in FCP.
please help,
thanks
liron

when i look at the counter on the original tape, how
would i be able to tell if it was shot in 24p or any
other settings?
yep, it's not in the manual and i found this one day long ago when i got my dvx just after they were first released: open the lcd and on the bottom towards the lens there is the counter button. with the camera in vtr mode and playing the tape, toggle that counter button and you'll get a wealth of info including what framerate the video was shot with.
as for the reverse telecine, how can one determine
what "capture mode" was used? apple suggests a burned
tc, but i do not have that off the dvx.
dude, as far as a reverse telecine, that is determined by which mode was used to photograph with the camera. with fcp 4 you only use cinema tools for 24p standard video but i understand with the latest version of cinema tools you can use for 24P and 24PA, but i've not tried this.
i'd advise you to do a little research. the fcp production studio has a great appendix on 24p material and also go here http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html and here http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
good luck.

Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools

My 24p fcp project is finished and I need to reverse telecine it to get rid of the ugly interlacing. How do I do this?
I've tried importing the movie into Cinema Tools and it keeps crashing. When I import the whole thing as a single clip (QT Movie), the Reverse Telecine button isn't available.
Also, why can't I import an mpeg-2 clip?
I'm using Cinema Tools 2.2, in case this has something to do with it.
Thanks in advance.

Oh, and Mr. Gilman was saying that there will be interlacing no matter what if it's on DVD or Beta? Why is this?
It's what I was trying to tell you when I said If tape, you need the pulldown anyway. If DVD, the pulldown would be added by the player.
You have to understand where the interlacing is coming from. It is coming from the pulldown inserted to bring the fps from 24 to 30...
Google reveals these Pulldown explanation pages:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
http://home.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html
http://www.denecke.com/24pinfo.htm
here's a visual representation of 24P with pulldown added to be recorded on a 29.97 tape (this is how all feature films are broadcast on NTSC)
You can see from this image that two frames BC and CD are interlaced - that is, they are made up of two fields taken from different frames. When a DVD has 24fps material on it, the DVD player automatically inserts this pulldown to bring it up to 30 fps so it can be shown on a regular TV.
Now. I believe your problem may stem from an incorrect field order, but first I want to ask - When you created your export of your movie that you fed into DVDSP to make your DVD, did you try importing it into FCP and playing it back on your TV. Did it look okay then?
Patrick

Reverse Telecine Question (Cinema Tools)

Dear board members,
I have footage that was shot with Panasonic AG-HVX200 in 1080i60 (29.97fps), but with 24p function with a 2:3 pulldown. When I ingest it in FCP through Log and Transfer this footage (for some peculiar reason) shows up as 1080p30. I also need to remove pulldown to make it 24 (23,98) FPS.
My workaround is as follows:
1) I export these files from FCP as DVCPRO HD 1080i60 QT files.
2) then I send these new "masters" to Cinema Tools, where I do Reverse Telecine process.
The results looks fine, but I just want to double-check my settings in Cinema Tools, because the batch for this job contains thousands of clips and there is no room for mistake.
Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools settings:
Capture Mode:
Field 1 - Field 2
Fields:
AA
File:
New (smaller)
Frames:
Conform to: 23.98 FPS
Standard Upper/Lower: Checked
Thank you very much for your time and (hopefully) helpful comments.
Regards,
Tim

I just did a test yesterday with MXFX software and there is a visible recompression in the resulting file. I compared the same frame (from different clips) processed through Cinema Tools and MXFX and also compared it to the original frame and MXFX clearly does something to the image (recompression or noise reduction, whatever you want to call it). Contacted them about it, they said they will look at it. Anyhow, the result is pretty visible at 200% zoom. Anyhow, that made me decide against MXFX.
Thanks for a suggestion though.

Reverse Telecine...

Hello, I have a project that was shot on a XL2 in 24p. What I want to do is import the footage to an external drive and then reverse telecine it then edit it. How do I once I've imported the footage to the external drive do I reverse telecine it?
Thanks!

Broadcast how? Digibeta? Digibeta doesn't run at 23.98. HD does.
Getting 23.98 back to 29.97 is tricky, and if it works, it might not give a desired result.
My general rule is that if you shot 24p, then edit in a 29.97 timeline. 24PA is for the 23.98 timeline...and really meant for DVD, web and possible HD bump only. Not meant to go back to tape.
Shane

Reverse Telecine with Premiere Pro

Hi All,
I had digibeta tapes that I captured at 740x486 and the client wanted us to do a reverse telecine on them which I did by creating a 24p DV timeline, dropping the video in and than outputed the timesline with the settings of Prores HQ (required), 720x480, 23.976, Progressive, DV/D1 .9091. The output definite did not look interlaced but a couple issues
a) Media Inspector the progressive flag is not appearing. It does not read the video as progressive.
b) Opening it in QT player it stated it as 720x480(654x480) and I need the display ratio to be 640x480 not 654x480.
c) Last they commented "There might be clean aperture tag, but just let them know the clap tag must be removed." which I have no idea what they are talking about here and would like some insight.
Thank you all for reading and any help is deeply appreciated here.
-john

After you get the footage to 24 frames (23.976), will the video be identified by media inspector as progressive scan?
If you have properly removed the 3:2 pulldown, it should.
But, you can trust what Premiere tells you.
Select the clip in the Project Panel and check the 'Info':
The 'p' denotes progressive scan.
note:
I don't use media inspector (I'm on pc).

Reverse Telecine and Temporal Compression

I'm currently editing on a FCP (5.1.4) 23.97fps timeline and have some secondary footage from a canon HV20 that I'd like to use as well. It's already captured, and I want to use a reverse telecine transfer so I can import it to my timeline conformed at the proper rate.
I tried using cinema tools (3) to perform this; first by importing just one clip, but the "rev telecine..." button couldn't be selected, so I tried to batch reverse telecine the clip but was given the error message 'temporal compression'.
I am sure that the footage captured on the HV20 was with the 24 option, so I'm not sure why I'm having and issue. Any advice would be appreciated. The more step-by-step the better.
Thanks!

With Final Cut 5 you need to use Cinema tools after converting every clip to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). This is a manual process that you must repeat for each clip. Each time you start and stop the HV20 recording you get a separate clip so if you did a lot of starting and stopping you'll be busy for a while. I did this process as an exercise more than a year ago and was successful but I don't recall the details. I did a Google search for "reverse telecine HV20" and found this article http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/07/working-with-24p-from-canon-hv20.html
I think I found my method on the Canon HV20 forum http://dvinfo.net/conf/canon-vixia-hv40-hv30-hv20-hv10/ back then.
I'm not sure but I think you may need to recapture your footage using the 60i setting in Final Cut. I don't know what Final Cut does to 60i footage captured using the 23.98 setting. You might just be able to change the setting to 29.97 on the captured clips. Worth a try maybe.
Good luck.

Problems with reverse telecine in Cinema tools

I am trying to reverse telecine some 24p footage I shot on a panasonic dvx. I have captured several tapes of footage in FCP 7 (as 29.97 footage to get the full data stream), then I have been sending clips to cinema tools to be reverse telecined, then bringing them back into FCP and editing on a 23.98 timeline. So far, I have used this workflow with three of my tapes and they all look fine in the end, but with one tape in particular I took all of the same steps but am having problems. When I bring clips from that tape into cinema tools and select "reverse telecine" it seems as if Cinema Tools is working and processing the footage, but at the very end the window with that clip suddenly disappears and no .rev file of the footage is created. Cinema tools remains open, only that window with the footage that was being processed is gone. I have tried recapturing the footage, renaming it, and double-checking my capture settings in FCP but have yet to figure out why these clips from this tape in particular will not be reverse telecined. Any suggestions about what I could be doing wrong?

I am almost positive I shot them the exact way, although the scene file dial on the dvx is pretty easily changed, so maybe if I bumped it during filming...
So to check, I looked at the footage before it was reverse telecined on an external moniter and it looks the same as all my other footage--with about 2 interlaced frames for every five frames. Is there another way I could check?
I'll try your compressor idea and see if that will remove the 3:2 pulldown! Thanks for the advice!

Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine problem-24 vs. 23.98 + sound issue

Hello again folks,
Trying to figure this all out, and thanks in advance for your input; this forum is amazing and has been invaluable!
I've been studying the FCP and CT pdf manuals and lots of links/threads here in the forum to get the proper workflow, have tried it all out, and ran into some problems:
Need to convert--sorry--REVERSE TELECINE--my captured DV 24p (captured at 29.97) footage into 23.98fps to edit in 23.98. Copied some media files so as not to ruin the originals, chose them from project bins, and sent them to CT using FCP'S "Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" (super easy and feeling overconfident). When I checked the footage, two things were odd:
1) My new frame rate was at "24" not "23.98", which I believe I want to be working in in order to achieve my desired finished product (I'm sure I read this in the forum and links, does it matter?), and
2) for kicks, while there in Tools, I tried one clip with "Tools>Remove Advance Pulldown", which did result in the 23.98fps.
3) about 6 seconds into the new 23.98fps clip the sound disappears (I checked and the original clips have good sound throughout).
Any thoughts out there on this. Should I be reversing telecine from within CT (by importing clips), and not from FCP's easy Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
Any links or thoughts to clarify will be received with great admiration and thanks!
Greg
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8) FCP ver.5.1.2. and CT ver.3.1.2
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

Reverse Telecine from 29.97 to 23.98 without FLX file

I'm editing in 24p from 35mm film that was telecined to 24p HD D-5. From this, a DV Cam was created with 29.97 code and 23.98 code. It was digitized into FCP at 29.97, and reverse telecined using a FLX file and Cinema Tools.
Now I have mini DV video that was upconverted to 24p HD D-5; from this a DV Cam was created with 29.97 code and 23.98 code. However, because this was not telecined, I don't have a FLX file. How do I convert this tape to 23.98 so I can include it in my 24p project?
G-5.0.3 Mac OS X (10.3.7)

This issue was resolved working with a local film lab.

FCS2 Reverse Telecine problem with HG10

I have been using the three fingered salute version (Log and Transfer, followed by Compressor's "reverse telecine") of getting 24P files from my HG10 into FCS2. It's worked well with smaller files (a few GB), but I just tried the technique with two very large video files. The Log and Transfer operation works fine. They're approximately 1 hour each, and are around 50GB in size each. But when I try the reverse telecine approach, Compressor seems to just flat-out die out from under me on both files. No error messages. I looked in Console, but nothing there either. It just stops processing, deletes the partially encoded file, and just sits there.
There was a discussion here about this problem prior to the 6.0.1 update, but nothing since.
Again, this works fine for me on little files (a minute or two in duration).
Is there an alternate way of doing the reverse telecine on these large files? Maybe Cinema Tools?

I have never used Compressor for this as Cinema Tools has been rock solid for me every time.

Issue with Reverse Telecine

I just finished a short film that I shot over two shoot dates. My cinematographer accidentaly shot 1 in 24P Advanced mode and the other in 24P Standard mode.
I brought my 24P standard footage in to cinematool and did a reverse telecine in order to convert the footage to 24 frames. I am having a problem now as the dialogue is out of synch.
If anyone has any advice on how I can fix this problem, it would be great.
Thanks,

I have resolved the issue for the moment, I just manually moved the sound timeline and it seems to have brought the audio back into sync.

24p reverse telecine

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