Separate luminance and color white balance

I know this is a quite peculiar idea, but i roundtrip to Photoshop a lot just for this..
we all know white balance affects how contrast and luminance of different image areas are interpreted by the software, and at times, especially in low or mixed light, I find that the 'color wise correct' white balance is often different to the 'luminance wise best' one..
i hope this doesn't sound too tortuous, and i really don't know if it would be hard to implement, but it would definitely help a lot with image quality..

ok..
I usually do this for low light portraits or mixed light situation, but it really works for everything, and is quite similar to the "tone" part of topaz detail plugin, for example..
we always choose WB to have a pleasant or correct color rendition, right?
but if we are in black and white, different WB settings affect different areas of the image, lightwise..
and i find out that there is always a sweet spot, depending on the lighting, where noise is better and shadows are better distributed, and and that usually doesn't match to the color WB sweet spot..
this is the original auto wb image
and its bw equivalent
here wb is tweaked to better balance shadows and contrast
but you can see colors are way off..
to give a better idea..
original:
two wbs, obtained with layers color blend mode of original onto bw tweaked
i realize at this size the difference may look small, but it really changes the balance of light, especially with low light or underexposed or mixed light shots..
hope now it's more clear..
cheers
Tommaso

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Command Click in edit changes color white balance and tint in edit

Command Click in edit changes color white balance and tint in edit, what is happening?

robwouds:
Welcome to the Apple Discussions. Must be a hidden keyboard combination for temperature and tint. Not sure if the user can set different settings of each that the keystrokes will take you thru. Just hit the reset button in the Adjust pane to get it back to normal.
Do you Twango?

Help with RAW files and custom white balance.

ive long had this issue with RAW shooting and adobe photoshop and lightroom, my main subject is a saltwater reef aquarium that is lit by artificial lighting, i shoot canon and use the custom white balance setting to get everything looking proper and it works good.. to an extent.. if i shoot jpg the photos all turn out as shot, if i shoot RAW the white balance in adobe programs is totally messed up and you cant fix it.. if i use DPP by canon, its perfect and looks just as shot or just a a jpg would look.. my question is how can i get adobe lilightroom to render my RAW files correctly.
below are all 3 images, first one was converted and exported to jpg in canon DPP without any adjustments and is what the photo should look like, second has been exported from photoshop, and 3rd i added a link to the actual RAW file. why cant my lightroom interpret these properly?
heres a link to the actual RAW file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a39ctllwgrem7a/_MG_8971.CR2
this was a raw converted in canon dpp, and its what the aquarium looks like, and is what the photo should look like. just to note, any other editing or viewing program besides adobe products all render the image correctly.
this is what photoshop and lightroom do to my Raw files, theres no way to adjust anything to get even remotely close to correct..

The white-balance Temperature of this image as computed by the camera is way beyond the 50,000K upper limit as you can see when you open the file in LR or ACR, so Adobe cannot reach the As Shot WB temperature number and stops at 50,000K which is still too blue -- although EXIFtool says: Color Temp As Shot : 10900, so maybe Adobe's wildly high 50,000K number is based on a faulty camera profile that exaggerates blues:
However, using the Camera Standard makes things not nearly so garish blue, and it is possible to use Photoshop to neutralize things even more:
However, as you say, other raw converters do ok with this image despite the high WB temperature, so I think the Canon T3/1100D profile needs some work, but probably won't get it since it is not a high-end camera.
For example, here is the default conversion from LibRaw that is part of RawDigger, and in my opinion is an improvement on the camera rendering though perhaps lacks a bit of saturation:
As another example, here is RawTherapee's conversion, after I neutralized the auto-tone and color values it applies by default, and appears to be a bit too saturated but that could be easily adjusted:
I would agree that Adobe is doing something wrong with this camera in this lighting. A clue is the bright green color of the top-central coral which seems to be yellow in the non-Adobe renderings.

Setting and holding White balance during tethered shooting

I came to Apeture from Capture One Pro. I used Capture when working for a photo studio, when I started shooting for myself I went with the much more affordable Apeture. I have been very happy with the workflow, but Apeture seems to be missing one of most basic settings for tethered shooting, setting and maintaining custom gray balance. I realize that I can shoot a frame with a gray card and white balance that frame, but the following frames revert to the pre-whitebalanced color settings. In Capture One, I would balance my first frame to a gray card, even add a manual tweek, and all subsequent frames would follow the new color settings. Perhaps there is a setting I have missed, some sort of automatic inheriting of the last frames adjustments. I realize that it is easy enough to adjust my color settings after the fact, but my color is off during shooting, and clients are not always able to envision the finished product. I really hope I'm missing something, because it's the most important feature to me for shooting tethered, right after the ability to shoot tethered.

It forces this yucky uber warm white balance. Just to make sure it was not shot that way, I then selected "as shot". It immediatly went to the color of the shoot and looks great.
When you select 'As Shot' do the Temp and Tint settings change? How about other settings, do any of them change? Just trying to determine what is actually causing the color change.
Did you try creating a new preset with the same settings, and see how it behaves when you uncheck White Balance? The original preset file may have been corrupted (i.e. damaged) and resaves are not fixing it. If this doesn't resolve the problem then it is likely a bug with tethered mode operation. Please let us know.

Lift and stamp white balance broken?

Hi everybody,
I'm using the 3.0.3 with the latest ProKit and Core Image rendering update, and I'm working with Canon 5d2 images. Today I was working on arranging a set of shots for a pano stitch in another tool, and I noticed that my camera's AWB choices varied across the sequence.
Thinking this would be easy to fix, I went to the image with the best color, put a check in the White Balance brick to "turn it on", and then lifted the WB adjustment. I stamped that adjustment onto the other 5 pictures, and the previews updated instantly to reflect the new color. However, the moment I move off and back onto any of the other images, the original (and varying) AWB settings are back in effect.
(After fiddling with it for a few minutes, I eventually gave up and just manually typed in the temperature and tint values into each picture's brick because I needed to get going on this stitch.)
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Thanks,
Ben

Thanks for your effort. I am stunned. Would be edifying to know what is happening! I thought it might be okay as I sometimes turn my image black after applying some change, but the black is only a temporary display problem as the image is correct the next time I go to use it; perhaps in my situation Aperture was busy generating new previews for presentation of the changes. Your white is certainly a different issue. Glad it's only an isolated incident and not happening for you on the other images.

Lens Profile Tool Addition – White Balance Offset Correction

I have noticed that my Canon 17-40mm and 70-200mm F4 IS lenses have virtually identical color temperature and can use the same white balance setting. My Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro lens is another story, requiring almost 200K and +15 change to White Balance sliders. I am sure there are cases where Canon’s lenses will differ more widely and exhibit a similar degree of white balance differences, not to mention use of UV or 1B protection filters. An 85mm F1.2 lens using “rare earth” low dispersion glass, will have a warmer color temperature than a lens using more common glass elements.
I use the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport to create custom profiles for each of my camera bodies. I typically make separate correction presets for Daylight, Cloudy, and Tungsten (2700K). This requires changing the LR White Balance sliders to obtain “neutral gray in the ColorChecker image files shot in each of above described lighting conditions. It does not appear necessary to create a separate ColorChecker camera profile for each lens, just correction to the LR white balance slider settings.
I did some measurements of change in camera profile for Sunny Daylight (~5,500K), Cloudy (8,000K+), and Tungsten (~2,900K) lighting. There was no measurable change in rendering of the ColorChecker Passport images for the extreme Sunny to Cloudy conditions, and only very slight changewhen comparing the Tungsten profile. This was done by loading a ColorChecker Passport image file and applying alternate profiles:
EXAMPLE:
Open a DaylightColorChecker Passport image file in LR, apply Cloudy Camera Profile, and adjust White Balance for the gray scale patches using the Eyedropper Tool. Then look at the 'Before' and 'After' images....you will see NO visual change to any of the color patches. I saw only a very slight change when doing this with the Daylight to Tungsten (artificial light source) comparison.
The relatively small change in color balance between lenses (~500K max.) should have no measurable or visible affect to the ColorChecker Passport created "Camera Profile." The ColorChecker Passport or any other "Camera Profile" creation tool is first and foremost correcting for differences in the camera's image sensor color rendering.
SUGGESTION:
Since this white balance difference is a factor of the lens, it would be very convenient to add another tool in Lightroom's and Camera Raw Lens Profile panel for “White Balance Offset.” This allows setup of LR defaults for one specific lens type, such as your most used lens. Then you use the new ‘Lens Profile’ located ‘White Balance Offset’ correction tool to adjust white balance for all of your other lenses. In addition, Adobe or camera manufacturers could also provide the 'White Balance Offset Correction' as a function of the lens spectral response deviation from linear. This would provide a "uniform method" of calculating and adding the White Balance correction to the 'Lens Profile.' Since this is a factor of the lens only, the “lens offset correction” can be used with ANY lens/camera body pairing, The current LR and Camera Raw White Balance settings are then only used for “Global” correction of lighting conditions, and NOT for lens differences.
This is a linear mathematical function,which should be extremely easy for Adobe to add the ‘White Balance Offset’ correction feature to LR’s and Camera Raw's Lens Profile GUI. Just like many other tools in LR that some don't use, you can choose to use it or not!

Interesting suggestion. Thanks. -Simon

AE CS6 - 3D Compositing and Color Correction workflow

AE CS6 - 3D Compositing and Color Correction workflow
Hello everybody,
I have some questions about work flow in AE concerning compositing and Color Correction. I saw many tuts about (f.e. Lynda.com Premiere Pro Color Correction and Enhancement... and tuts by Andrew Davis here in creative.cow).
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GRADING (primary and secondary)
Adjusting Tonality (Brightness and Contrast)
Adjusting Colors (White balance and fix color dominance)
MATCHING
Conforming colors of different clip shoted with different camera and lighting set up.
ENANCHING LOOK
Giving to all clips a unique "look"
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or/and
a keyed clip from a green screen shot?
How does this footage (3d object and green screen keyed shot) transform
the aforementioned work flow?
We have to consider that this footage (3d object and green screen keyed shot) must to be pre-multiplied to make a right compositing but when you make CC it must be again "straight"... (NOT pre-multiplied)
Is really hard also understand how dale this work flow between AE and Pre Pro if you want to make CC in Pre Pro after compositing in AE.
I try to present a work flow for this (very common) situation:
I have a landscape clip as a background
a keyed clip (pre-multiplied) with a Character watching sky
and a 3d (pre-multiplied) object U.F.O. on sky.
When I have done compositing, how make I a right CC of all footage if I have two clip (3d object and green screen keyed shot) still pre-multiplied?
I think, but I'm not sure, that should be a good idea to send to Pre Pro a composited Comp with separate layers (by dynamic links) to have all single separate layers (Background, 3d object and green screen keyed shot.. but also the Color Warping...!). Than, in Pre Pro you should make a CC (Grading) just for a BG and than try to Match (Matching) this color corrected BG with 3d obj and keyed shoot. But we have a problem at this point cause our 3d object and green screen keyed shot are still pre-multiplied, and before make matching we have to re- multiplied theme, but how? And if we re pre-multiplied them, compositing will be also right?
Or maybe, before exporting comp from AE to Pre Pro, he have to create both layers for 3d object and green screen keyed shot, one pre-multiplied and one "Stright"? But, again, how to combine them to have a right compositing and a a right CC?
Anybody can help me to understand or maybe suggest any tuts to dale this common issue in AE- Pre Pro?
Many, many thanks!

Dave is correct. (And so is Mylenium. No need to be rude, when he was jsut trying to explain that you were introducing unnecessary complexity.)
The color matting is removed to interpret the alpha channel when you import the footage. After that, any color correction that you do to a layer based ont hat footage item doesn't have anything to do with whether the channels were straight or premultiplied for the source item.
You color-correct your individual items to amke them match as part of the compositing process in After Effects. Then, if you want to do a color grade of the shot in Premiere Pro along with other shots, you'd be working on the single rendered/flattened composite, so the details of the original elements that went into the composite are irrelevant.

Quick Help Please!!!!... White balance 6 HD Cameras

Hey guys/gals (I only have 2 hours before I ship out)... I have an important gig tonight shooting a live event. I have 6 cameras all at different distances to the stage. The stage is reasonable and evenly lit. How should I white balance all of these cameras (Sony FX-1s and Z1Us)?
I want to use the manual White Balance in the cameras so they all have the same color temperature instead of 'auto' mode? What I realized today (which I hope I'm wrong) is that I'll have these cameras set up at different distances, they will all have to zoom in at different focal lengths (which effects the f-stops as well) to reach the White Card on the stage for the Manual White Balance. Should I White Balance the cameras this way? Will all the cameras have a slightly different White Blance due to the different Focal length?
Or should I place all of them in the same spot in front of the stage, go Wide (or tight), and then White Balance all of the cameras at the same focal length and angle?
2 cameras will have a tight shot all night, 2 cameras will be a tight to medium shot and the last 2 will be medium to wide.
Sorry if I'm overreacting (slap me if so please), it's an important gig to me and the first time I did this gig over a year ago I had to do a big of color correction depending on the shot/camera.
Thanks for your time.
-Monty
P.S. - I have a set of Warm Cards and a huge white posterboard for the White Balance and the stage is all Tungsten Lighting... basically a crapload of floodlights... theatre setting, no spotlights.

Good on ya for taking the time to learn to do this beforehand but I may have done some testing first.
TheMonty wrote:
Will all the cameras have a slightly different White Blance due to the different Focal length?
Probably not although you'll have a flare imbalance between the cameras due to the different focal lengths. No two cameras, not even the same model, will ever white balance exactly like the other, there will always be minute differences. You will also want to black balance all your cameras as well.
However, white/black balance is a small part of the imaging pie. In reality you'd really want to chart these cameras with a [DSC Labs Chrome do Monde|http://www.dsclabs.com/chromadumonde.htm] as a simple white balance will not address differences in flare/gamma balance, or inequities in the white clipper channels. When you chart a camera you null out all the variances in the r,g,b channels which creates a better white balance over all.
The color section of the Chrome du Monde helps match the color matrices of your video cameras, something else a simple white/black balance will not do.
Good luck.

Help! White balance dropper/loupe disappears!

I was just going through a wedding to do a last run for white balance and color corrections and my white balance loupe appears and disappears in a split second!
Previously, I was making several WB corrections to a specific image, decided I wasn't getting anywhere and wanted to see the (M)aster image. From the master image I clicked on the WB dropped tool and it flipped back to my "version" of the file and now it just disappears every time!
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Aaron Lee
Dual 1.8GHz G5 2GB Mac OS X (10.4.3)

grumbles no, I've been up for 65 days now! Why would I want to reboot? Well, okay, I'll d/l 10.4.4 and the works :-/
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White Balance eyedropper not working?

Hi all,
Has anyone else tried doing a white balance adjustment in Aperture 2.0.1 with the eyedropper?
In 1.5.x, it worked great -- I just clicked the eyedropper, clicked on a known-neutral-grey area of my photo, and the white balance was adjusted very well.
In Aperture 2.0.1, I click on the eyedropper, then click on the same neutral-grey area, and for a second the photo adjusts beautifully -- then the white balance controls seem to randomly adjust back, and I get a photo that is no more color balanced than the original one.
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Thanks in advance!
\marc

Still not working. I think the root cause of the problem is the mechanics of using the tool itself; I hope this screen shot shows up below ...
Here I have APPLIED EFFECTS open, and have selected Midtones (Greys) to be expanded so that the eyedropper and other details appear:
Now, just below where it has a box and "Impacted frame area in white" (which I know is a checkbox allowing the area effected to be seen), there is a little color box and an eyedropper.
What EXACTLY do I do to select (activate) the eyedropper and subsequently tell the program what I feel should be grey in the selected clip?
As mentioned before, I can click it and the cursor briefly changes to the same shape as the eyedropper. But as soon as I move the cursor a fraction, it changes back to an arrow (normal cursor) shape. Even then, going to the area I need to select in the image, and then clicking it, does exactly nothing to the appearance of the image shown -- even if the colors start way off. No correction at all. It is as if the tool does nothing. The color wheels below all this DO work however - it's just the eyedropper that doesn't do anything. This just cannot be Adobe's intention. I am convinced there must be some flaw in how I am selecting the tool itself. And the user guide - needless to say - is worthless in explaining the mechanics.
So very frustrating. This appears to be the only thing wrong with the program - nothing else seems amiss.
NOTE: To add insult to injury, this promised white/gray/black balance feature and the three-way-color corrector is the SOLE REASON I purchased the software. Funny.

Canon EOS 550D JPEGs don't show white balance EXIF info in Aperture

I have 23,000 photos in my iPhoto library which I would eventually like to transfer to Aperture. I've experimented with importing just a few photos from iPhoto so that I can practise using Aperture before I go over to it completely, but have a problem in that the white balance info for JPEGs is not copying over with the rest of the metadata. The white balance column in the Info pane is empty and there are no 'cloud' or 'sun' symbols at the top right of the Info pane beside the word JPEG. The white balance info for RAW photos, however, copies over fine.
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Hello Ernie
I think you've pinpointed the nub of the problem. As I was only trying out Aperture, I thought the best thing to do would be to import just a few photos from iPhoto and have a play, so I went to the Import button in the Toolbar and imported them from my iPhoto library individually. After reading your advice I have just changed libraries and opened the iPhoto library in Aperture and the white balance information is now showing. I can't really see what the difference is between the two, I would have thought the white balance information would show whichever way I looked at the photos but I don't care, because you have solved it for me. Thank you so much for your time. So many people have tried to help me and I'm most grateful to the Apple Support community!

Flickering White Balance Correction

Hi,
I did a shot with a Nikon D90 moving through a subway tunnel, and the White Balance keeps oscilating slightly from warm to cool. Can I use some sort of temporal WB correction to deal with this problem, without keyframing the whole thing?
Regards,
Bogdan

Not sure if WB Effect is an "auto" Effect, but you might want to look at Keyframing one of the other CC Effects. About all of the Auto Effects are nearly useless. Some, like Shadow & Highlight can have the Auto turned OFF. I use S & H often, but NEVER on Auto.
Just do not know about WB Effect.
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PS - welcome to the Forum

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May I ask how to see the white balance setting into the display setting for Xperia Z1? Bec. I have Xperia Z also and the white balance setting is already seen but into my Z1 I can't see the white balance setting to adjust the screen display hope to answer back in able to fix my Xperia Z1 yellow hue tint problem using the "White Balance" in display setting. Thank you

No White Balance option in Z1. Can;t say what made them remove this.
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NFC icon doesn't appear after activating it.
Automatic switch off issue still there.
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Don't forget to give Kudos.

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http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_release_software_fix_for_the_hd2_camera_pink_spot_issues-news-1317.php
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s2/general/pink-spot-gone-t1135905
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When I view .cine files in SpeedGrade that were recorded with any other Vision Research Phantom camera, the files have the correct white balance information. When I view .cine files from the new Miro 320S, the footage looks very green, almost as if SpeedGrade is ignoring the red and blue white balance values. Will there be a fix for this soon? I can provide Adobe with Miro files if needed.
Juliet Verni
Camera Technology Specialist
AbelCine 801 South Main St. Burbank CA 91506
888.700.4416 | 818.972.9078 | f.818.972.2673
[email protected] | www.abelcine.com
New York • Chicago • Los Angeles

Actually there are no LUTs / Matrix for Phantom Miro yet. When you open Miro Footage in SG, it reads out the pure RAW informations (looks bit greenish).
What you can do: shoot a colorchart and use our colorchart tool >timeline>Colorspace.
Or write your own luts for tungsten/daylight.
Also sent you a pm.
Duy-Anh

Separate luminance and color white balance

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