Gaps on faux 24p timeline

I have a 24p project using material shot on a camera that gave 24P recorded actually at 29.97. This result is a timelime with clips that occassionally produce a sub-frame gap that results in a black dropout during playback. I can't just cut out that part-frame because the clip insert is is actually an AE processing of a portion of a longer clip that leads up to and contues after it. What do I do to ensure smooth continuity?

Trouble is, do you mean 30i or 29.9, and drop frame or non-drop frame? (I'm presuming you mean drop frame, but not with full confidence.) Maybe you could also elaborate on why your choice should work.

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DVCPro HD 60P in a 24P timeline (From HPX 500 / P2card)

I've been playing with the new DVCProHD features in CS3.1, and I am wondering if there is a way to actually bring full 60P footage in a 24P timeline to slow it down.
From what I read in the project settings, it doesn't seem possible. Although it reads 59.94 in the project manager, when its duration is increased, it just starts interpolating just as 24P footage (Sure looks better than it did in PP2, but definitely not 60P :-). In a 60P timeline, that issue is obviously not there.
I know Panasonic has been offering a frame rate converter for FCP to resolve that exact issue. Are we stuck until a Windows version is out (if ever)? Does anyone have a work around?
I also noticed that we can't export a 720/60P DVCPro sequence to 24P in WMV HD and expect good results? I tried unconstrained at 20 Megs/s average with not luck...
Vince

Thanks Marcus. Do I then have to use Raylight render settings for the entire timeline, or will Premiere let me render that particular clip to the native DVCPro Codec. I understand that you created your own version of DVCPro, is that correct?
Thanks,
Vince

HVX 24p timeline and 60p

Simply, I'm editing a documentary and we're shooting in 720p 24PN with the HVX. I setup my timeline accordingly, and despite my coaching them, the two guys who hired me still come back with 720 60p footage from time to time.
By default, when I drop the 60p footage into the timeline, it's black. When rendered, it's choppy.
I know there is an calculative explanation for this but the numbers are confusing me - I'm looking for the best way to take that 60p footage into the 24p timeline and have it play at normal speed.
Also, an aside that I thought of. When I'm ready to actually use 720 60p for slow motion, how do I achieve this in a 24p timeline? I've found a few explanations after a brief search and apologize if it should have been more apparent to me, but I'm still not quite grasping it.
This is my first foray into P2 and MXF. I am using Raylight from DVFilm as well, so my clips are referenced as you may know, and not imported traditionally through final cut.
Thank you!

It will look a little choppy...in comparison to the actual 24p footage. You can try the Standards Converter from www.nattress.com and see if that does a better job. Demo is available.
As for the Slow Motion, you need to use the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter tool in the TOOLS menu. HOWEVER, you need to have actual quicktime files I think...not sure if this will work with Raylight. You can try. I do know that the end result will be a quictime file.
Tutorial:
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/rossshane/dvprohd/video-tutorial.php
Shane

60p conformed to 24p timeline - reverse bug?

If I take 60p footage and conform to 24p timeline (40% smooth slo-mo), then copy the clip and reverse it -- many frames are dropped and the reversed clip is very choppy.
Help?

I can confirm this bug. It has nothing to do with H.264 or anything else that suggests frames can't be rendered in time (CPU/GPU/HD). It's happenning in a 25p timeline for me so it's no specific to 24p.
The problem is for some reason FCPX is processing the reverse and time-remap in the wrong order.
I't reversing first, and this temporary step is producing footage in the framerate of the timeline and discarding frames just like it would if the 60p footage were played back in the timeline without conforming.
Then the slow down happens on the new 24p footage which is causing repeat frames.
WORKAROUND!
Good thing is we can force FCPX to process them in the right order by using compund clips. Convert to compound clip and put the slow-down on the clip inside the compound clip and then put the reverse on the compound clip in the timeline. Boom!
Only thing the doesn't make sense is why others report it works properly with reverse-slowed clips as it never works for me no matter what I do.

Encore adding gaps between sequences in timeline

I have a project with 11 dynamically linked PPro sequences in the Encore timeline. When I reopen the project, Encore has placed 3-frame gaps between some of the sequences. Here's my workflow:
1. I created an Encore project with the DL sequences, created a menu, and built a DVD image file.
2. Burned the DVD in Toast, watched it, made notes.
3. Edited audio in several reels in Audition, updated the Premiere sequences with the new audio.
4. Opened the Encore project -- it asked if I wished to re-import the DL sequences that had changed on the DL server -- Yes.
5. Now Encore seems to have trimmed the tail of the unchanged sequences by 3 frames, but only the video.
Even though Encore gives be a bi-directional trim icon at the tail, indicating that I should be able to trim it in either direction, it won't add those frames back, at least not on all the sequences -- some of the sequences do let me add the frames back.
When I do trim the previous sequence, it snaps to the nearest I-frame. Apparently, it's trimming the previous sequence to the last I-frame it transcoded instead of leaving it trimmed to the last frame in the sequence.
How can I get around this?

Excellent. I don't understand how Encore could ask you if you wanted to reimport changed sequences if it was not reverting to original. I now assume that Encore does not address the possibility that you might have multiple sequences on one timeline when it does this process, and does not revert all (or any?) and produced the gaps.
So, in any event, your multiple DL sequences on one timeline worked, once you reverted and adjusted. The alternative to what you did would be to answer "no" to reimporting, then revert (which would pull in the newer version). If it was not actual changes that contributed to the gaps, that might avoid them. But I suspect you would still have to adjust the sequences on the original timeline.

Wrongly imported 24p Advanced into 30i timeline.

Dear Forum,
I shot 24pA and imported it into a 30i timeline thinking that the output onto BetaSP would be in 30i. I am now almost done with editing this project and realized that I may have edited in the wrong timeline all along. Since the pull down (2:3:2:3 vs. 2:3:3:2) is not accurate and leaves me with an additional field of lines, making the image look striped every few frames. Is there any way of taking out these additional frames at this point? If I would have edited this project in a 24p timeline as required for 24pA shooting, how could I even output to a 30i format?
Thank you very much for your answer.
Sarah
PowerBook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Your 24pA footage actually comes off the tape as 30i with the advanced pulldown, which is just the pattern of interlaced and de-interlaced frames which allows the 24p to be "put back together" from the 30i.
If you don't remove the pulldown, you should be able to edit these clips into a 30i timeline and not have any problems. You might see field lines in the canvas, or jiggly freeze frames on your external video on interlaced frames, but if you have used easy setup, and the field dominance of your clips matches that of your sequence, the 30i motion video should not show field artifacts. It is possible that if you have source material that has cuts in it, that you can get frames with fields from either side of the cut, but that's not to likely on tapes that came right from the camera.
If you want edit in 24p, you are in luck that your footage is 24pA, because this can be converted right in FCP, either before capture, or after, with "remove advanced pulldown". Once this is done, you will have 24p clips (23.98) that you can edit into a 24p timeline and everything will be progressive and groovy. When you output back to tape from a 24p timeline, there is a setting in the A/V prefs to determine whether the output to tape uses the standard or advanced pulldown. If you master the 24p to tape (where it will have pulldown added, as you can't acutally record"24p" on videotape) You should use edit to tape to be sure the program starts on a 00 frames point, such as 01:00:00:00 on a pre-striped tape with NDF timecode. Observing this standard will streamline any inverse telecine process that might be done with tape in the future, such as encoding to 24p for DVD, ar getting a film transfer made.
hope this helps

Transferring a CS3 25P timeline to CS4 24P?

I have a project Shot on a Canon XH-1A at 24P. I have been editing it using CS3 which only had a 25P setting - not 24P. I now have access to CS4 and would like to transfer the project to a 24P timeline.
When I play back the video on my computer it displays a "hiccup" every second or so, which appears to be a duplicated frame. Is this CS adjusting my 24P to 25P? Or is it an artifact of CS displaying everything at the standard 30 frame video rate?
Thanks,
-Phil

Wow. I wasn't expecting anything like this. Thanks for getting back to me. So, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying that my project that I shot in 24P was recorded as 30i by the Canon XH-A1 and that I need to set up my project as 30i on Premiere? And use pulldown? Aren't there several formats of pulldown?
The project is an independent feature which may be transferred to 35mm film for theatrical release. I shot it in 24P to make that an easy process. Won't it being in 30i format mess that up?
What is the purpose of the Canon having a 24P setting if it only records in 30i?

Footage from HD 1080i in a 23.97 timeline.. help!

Alright folks i'm working on a feature and have hit a snag and would like your help. We shot some of the footage on a sony hdr-fx1 and the rest in true 24p so thus are editing in a 720, 24p timeline. When I drop the footage I edited from the fx1 (editing in fcp6) into the timeline, it put gaps in between the clips (so i had to bring them all back together) and also introduced a kind of stutter in the video. I can live with it, but its very annoying, anyone have any thoughts? I've tried exporting whole sequences which gets rid of the gaps, but it still has the stutter which could just be because of the 24p timeline, but i thought FCP6 allowed for integration of multiple frame rates within a timeline, any thoughts?
Going from this timeline:
HD (1440x1080), 29.97, compressor HDV 1080i60
to:
HD (960x720), 23.98, compressor DVCPRO HD 720p60
Any thoughts? Thanks!

Yeah.. the master's hoping to be transfered to HD. Usually we have everything synced on our end to AE via EDL so we just change the clip frame rates and the timeline frame rate, although this is one of the rare cases where they brought us an already edited FCP document all in 29.97, and the 3:2 cadence doesnt line up per edit. EDL fails when we try due to the nested sequences.

HD 720 24p workflow to SD DVD

I have an HVX200. I shot in HD 720 24pn, editing in 720 24p timeline, how do I see the output on a SD monitor in realtime in order to do color correction? I only have a fiirewire DVCam deck. I can onlt seem to see one frame at a time through my deck?
After editing in the 720 24p timeline, I tried select all and pasting into a DVNTSC (29.97) timeline. I can see the video in real time, but I got one frame gaps in my sequence. What do I do with that?
I've read that outputting through compressor is best workflow to DVD, but I would like to see it on a SD monitor first to color correct.
Confused

You cannot view DVCPRO HD thru a DV deck in real time. Nor will you see anything resembling accurate color. You will need an HD capture card and HD monitor. One cheap option is the Matrox MXO and Apple Cinema Display.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/MXO.php
If you have a MacPro, you can look into the Decklink Intensity and then an HDTV.
After editing in the 720 24p timeline, I tried select all and pasting into a DVNTSC (29.97) timeline. I can see the video in real time, but I got one frame gaps in my sequence. What do I do with that?
Don't do that. Why are you doing that? When you copy and paste clips of one frame rate into a sequence of another frame rate...that happens. So...don't do that.
I've read that outputting through compressor is best workflow to DVD, but I would like to see it on a SD monitor first to color correct.
Well...you can do it the way you are doing it, but the colors won't be accurate and you can only see one frame at a time. Unfortunately you cannot route the signal thru the camera like you can DV...so you are still looking at needing an HD capture card and HD monitor or TV. Or MXO/ACD.
Shane

"THE GAP...MUST HAVE A DURATION OF EITHER ZERO, OR AT LEAST 0.4 SECONDS.

IN ENCORE CS3 - I get this "Problem" message when I check my project. It refers to "gaps" in my main timeline where all my video is set end to end. There are no visually perceivable gaps, and when I burn the disk, everything is fine. What does this message mean?

I always create a separate Timeline for each and all Assets. I do not gang them on a single Timeline. When one does this, there are often gaps in the Video, because the Audio is longer, maybe just an Audio unit, or two. Also, depending on the Audio file type, there can be Duration differences, just because of encoding schemes. Cannot recall the numbers for the blocks, but Neil Wilkes has offered that up in several replies to similar posts. One way around this is to make sure to have a bit of Black Video on the Timeline in PrPro, and let the Audio end maybe 1 - 2 secs. earlier. Note too, that if one is doing DD 5.1 SS AC3's, many players, especially higher-end ones, need 02 sec. to "lock onto" the AC3, so 02 sec. of silent Audio is a good idea, or the music might not be heard until a few sec. into it. Neil refers to this a "Black Audio," but it's really silence.
I just use Playlists to get the navigation that I require from the multiple Timelines.
Good luck,
Hunt

What is the best way to work with mixed media in 1080 timeline?

Hi there,
I have a project shot mostly in 1080 24p but a bit of 720 24p and 4x3 30p footage.
What is the best way to work with this mixed media?
Thanks!
Steven

Hi Shane,
Ok just to recap (thanks for being patient by the way)...I have put some questions in here...feel free to write in caps to respond and we'll put this baby to rest!
1) I will work in a 1080p FCP sequence, correct?
2) HD 1080p footage captured as applepro res hq I will leave as is and work with?
3) HD 720p footage which was captured as applepro res hq. Can I just drop in 1080 timeline and let FCP do its work? Or should i run through compressor, if so what setting shall I submit it too?
4) I dont have a budget for an external hardware to convert SD to HD...should I capture my SD Beta through Final Cut and just leave and let FCP do its work? Or should I run through compressor? If so what setting shall I submit it too?
5) For for my master sequence in FCP am I not using an I-Frame format apple pro res if I am using my apple pro res hq 1080 footage as my formatted sequence? I am not sure what you mean by GOP?
6) I also found some 60p footage 1080p XDCAM compressor shot with the same XDCAM camera. I put in the 1080p 24p timeline but it was pretty choppy...any ideas of this conform?
Thanks very much for all your help it has gone along way,
Steven
Saying what CODECS you are working with was my question. 1080, 720, 4:3...really says nothing. There are a dozen 1080 codecs, another dozen 720 codecs, and nearly 100 4:3 formats.
Best to capture all the footage to one uniform codec.
Second best is to work with one format and let FCP conform the rest to that...IF and only IF that format is an I-Frame format like ProRes. GOP formats as master sequence formats cause TONS of issues.
What I'd do is work 1080 ProRes, just add the 720p footage (Use Compressor to convert it if you didn't have a lot, but if you had a lot, just add it), but I'd capture all the SD 4:3 footage via a Kona 3 or Matrox MXO2 as 1080 ProRes. Hardware conversion of SD to HD is much better than anything FCP can do. AE might do good as well. But then use Compressor to convert 29.97 footage captured (you can't convert 29.97 to 23.98 when you capture) to get to 23.98.

60i to 24p

Can anyone walk me through the steps of converting 60i SD footage to 24p footage that can be played back on a 60i timeline in Final Cut?
I realize that anything playing on a 60i timeline is going to be interlaced but I want the same 24p look that the Panasonic DVX100 puts out.
I have already tried converting 60i to 60p and then droping that on a 24p timeline. It definately has the look but it seems like I might have lost a bit of resolution and even with that I havent actually exporting that movie and burning to a dvd to see how that looks.
Any help would be great.
Garnet

First off, everything should be conveted to ProRes (LT or Regular is fine).
In Compressor, select the ProRes preset and duplicate it. This will create a new preset under "Custom" that you will change the settings.
Under the Video Tab, set the frame rate> 23.976, the field order> progressive and the Retimeing Quality > Best (Motion Compensated)
Conversions will take a while.
x

24P Playback and Project settings

I'm a Final Cut guy switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 and have legacy files to edit. I"m trying to figure out the best project settings (Mac Based)
Bringing in Pro Res files 1920 x 1080, 24p. I have a Black Magic Decklink Studio with most current drivers.
I don't seem to see a project setting that allows me to run my video out to an external monitor on a 24p sequence. Now in Final Cut I can edit the 24p files on a 24p timeline and still playout thru the BMD card. I guess it does the pulldown. I assumed it would in PPro as well?
I can setup a project in CS5.5 at 29.97 but then my sequences need to be rendered.
I must be missing something but can't seen to get the right settings... Help!
thanks
Ben Kupfer

Drop a clip onto the "new item" icon at the bottom of the project panel an Premiere will make the appropriate timeline for you.
Use playback setting to pick your external monitor and you should be set.

Still Frames in 24p

I did a big shoot in 24p (advanced on a dvx-100), captured at 24p, and dropped in a 24p timeline. BUT the clip itself in the viewer plays at 30, and in the timeline, it plays at 24 but still has duplicate frames.
Am I missing something? How should I fix this?

Hi Benjamin,
Did you capture DV NTSC 24p or DV NTSC 24p with advanced pulldown removal?
Have a look at the following article:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
It contains a lot of valueable information on the topic and will most likely answer your question.
Cheers,
Uwe

60 fps in a 24 timeline

Hi. I've read some of these other posts but they're hurting my mind. Appreciate any help in advance.
Have footage in shot in 60 fps. Put it in it's own 60 timeline and copied the clip, dropped in the main 24 fps seq.
Looks terrible. I know why. How do I fix it please? Would rather avoid going through other aps if possible. Seems a real pain for something FCP should be able to do with a speed adjustment.
Please? Thanks!

You don't give any info on the footage, the version of FCP, or what you think the reason is ("I know why".)
I've had good results inserting 60fps DVCPro HD footage into a 24p timeline as far back as FCS2, so this shouldn't be rocket science...

Gaps on faux 24p timeline

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