Remove Advanced Pulldown and Reverse Telecine...

Hey guys,
I have read all the hundreds of postings here about problems with removing advanced pulldown. Some people mention using compressor to get the clips to 23.98. I was happy to find that indeed compressor did get the clips that I couldn't remove pulldown in FCP on to 23.98, and that those clips play on the same timeline as my other 23.98 clips. HOWEVER, the clips that were reverse telecined, then brought into FCP play with a stroby effect... There's weird horizontal lines through them. Anyone know what is going on? I guess I will start re-logging and capturing the clips as shorter clips and then try to remove the advanced pulldown on them (from what I understand FCP can't remove the pulldown if there is a cut within a clip...) but if anyone knows of an easier way to deal with this, let me know. I am working with 50 hours of footage, probably 5 of which I couldn't get the advanced pull down off of, so it's a lot of work! Thanks!

I found this answer to one of the posts about removing advanced pulldown problems:
"Are you certain it's 24PA and not 24P?
You might be able to break it into smaller chunks with QT Pro and try removing advanced pulldown on that, but that's just a shot in the dark..."
Patrick
Can someone explain how to use Quicktime Pro to break the clips into smaller chunks without going through and re-logging and capturing all over? Although, I already put all the clips that didn't get the pulldown removed in FCP through cinema tools to make them 23.98 too...I suppose this will make it impossible for me to use the QT PRo method...I am losing days of work here making smaller and smaller clips out of this material by logging and capturing over and over so I'm desperate to make sure there's not an easier way around this...
Outside of when you are tranferring to film, does anyone have a really good reason to shoot 24pA on the dvx100? With this project it was definitely a mistake!

Similar Messages

Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames

I've been researching this but still have not figured it out:
When I import Canon XF100 footage shot in 24fps from my CF card into FCP 7, in the "Log and Transfer" window under "Preferences", should I check or uncheck "Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames"? My thought was to uncheck the box since it is a function specific to P2 cards and that it wouldn't make a difference either way for my footage. Also (and I could be wrong), I didn't think any pulldown was necessary since I was shooting in 24fps. However, when I examined 2 test clips taken through both paths, there was one noticeable difference: the unchecked clip is larger (644.8MB) than the checked (582.8MB). Hmmmm....
Does this mean the footage changes based on if that box is checked or not?
And in my shooting/import scenario, should I check or uncheck that box?
Thank you.

23.98 and 23.98
> I have a few different cameras and some need pulldown and some don't but I've always left it checked under the > assumption that if there's nothing to pulldown it can't/won't and everything has been fine.
good to know. i agree. based on my conversations with the canon xf software folks, they were not entirely sure whether or not to check the box, so it doesn't seem to be a significant impact on the work flow.
thanks all for your input.

Why doesn't "remove advanced pulldown" work?

I have several large files captured directly from my XL2 in 24p Advanced mode and when I import them into FCP 5.1.2, the "remove advanced pulldown" menu item complains that there's no puldown in these files.
They're large (an hour each) dv files. about 10-12GB each. And they definitely have pulldown in them. Cinema Tools reverse telecine fixed 'em up just fine.
Any ideas? Thanks!

Interesting.
A little more background...
I am trying to implement a "poor man's" hard disk capture system. I run the firewire cable from my XL2 into my Powerbook and was using iMovie to record to a .dv file whilst simultaneously recording to a DV tape. I think my mistake was using iMovie instead of FCP. But the strange thing is that one of my events I recorded worked fine, and FCP's 23.98 timeline caused the video to be rendered beautifully as 24P. But the other one had nasty interlacing artifacts that lead me to believe the file wasn't captured well.
Anyway...I will try this again using FCP's capture now, and see if I can use a capture preset that removes pulldown as it goes.
One question: if I really don't want pulldown, should I be recording in ordinary 24P on my XL2?
Thanks!
Mac Pro, G5 Dual, 12" PB G4

How to Remove Advanced Pulldown?

Some camcorders, such as the Panasonic AG-DVX100A (which is what I have), are designed to shoot in progressive mode at 24 fps (literally 23.98 fps) and then record the video to tape as a 60-field interlaced signal by applying a special kind of pull-down called advanced 2:3:3:2 pull-down. With previous versions of Final Cut, you could remove the redundant fields created by the camera’s pull-down, so that you can edit at 23.98 fps or 24 fps.
This was done previously by the following:
In Final Cut Pro, select the clips or sequence.
Choose Tools > Remove Advanced Pulldown.
How do I do this in Final Cut Pro X?
These menus do not exist and when I drop a previously existing clip into a new project there are duplicate frames (whether I choose to create the project properties based on the properties of the first clip imported or I specify manually I want it to be a 23.98p timeline), meaning that FCPX has not removed the pulldown automatically.
When I import a clip from tape/source then FCPX handles it correctly.
But there needs to be an option to fix this in already existing clips that have been imported prior to the existence of FCPX without re-importing all the footage.

well, in case anyone else who uses a dvx100 has this problem with previously imported 16x9 24pA .AVI files that you want to use in FCPX here is what i had to do. use compressor. convert each of the AVIs using these settings:
Name: FC
Description: DVX 24pA AVIs to MOV in FCPX 23.98P timeline
File Extension: mov
Estimated size: 11.05 GB/hour of source
Audio Encoder
16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Stereo (L R), 48.000 kHz
Video Encoder
Width: 720
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: NTSC CCIR 601/DV (16:9)
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: 23.976
Frame Controls On:
Retiming: (Fast) Nearest Frame
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Reverse Telecine
Adaptive Details: Off
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Progressive
Codec Type: DV/DVCPRO - NTSC
Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: Off
Scan Mode: Interlaced
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 100
Min. Spatial quality: 0
Temporal quality: 0
Min. temporal quality: 0
Compatible with Mac

Problems removing Advanced Pulldown frames

I'm relatively new to 24PA, until now, I have captured quite a few projects now without any problems. The footage is always shot DVCPRO 50, I use the Panasonic AJ-SD93 Deck to capture the footage, selecting "remove advanced pulldown frames" in the FCP capture settings, and end up with great 23.98 progressive advanced footage.
The most recent project I've been working on, we received tapes that were shot by the same production group, same settings, same camera, and I was capturing with the same deck, same FCP settings, etc...however, after capturing, the files were not 23.98, but 29.97 (as a test, I captured from tapes in a previous project, it immediately came in as 23.98).
I tried to solve the issue after the fact by selecting the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" selection in the tool menu and received the error message *"File does not contain frames encoded using Advanced Pulldown".*
The 29.97 footage, based on my knowledge, seemed to indicate that it was, in fact, 24PA. For two reasons, one - every fifth frame in the 29.97 footage was a "split" frame, and two, breaking the footage down into fields, it seemed to have the 2-3-3-2 cadence associated with 24PA. However, for whatever reason, Final Cut could not find the cadence.
Why might this be?
I'd appreciate any informed opinions, but I can say that my guess is it has something to do with timecode and timecode breaks. The footage had an awful lot of timecode breaks and the timecode was being forced. I am wondering if this has something to do with why FCP could not pick up the cadence in the footage. (The only other variable that changed from previous successful 24PA projects is that these tapes were dubbed, and perhaps the dub house - which has shown itself prone to the occasional mistake - messed something up, but in this instance, don't see any evidence of that.)
Ultimately - I worked around the issue just fine, but it only makes matters more confusing, I brought the footage into Cinema Tools and did a Reverse Telecine (3:2 pulldown) and the footage turned it into clean-looking 23.98 progressive footage. Like I said before, analyzing the footage appeared to reveal that it was certainly 24PA with a 2-3-3-2 cadence and not 24P with a 2-3-2-3 cadence.
Any thoughts are welcome, thanks -

Just a thought: if the dub house made the dubs over SDI or analog, then the 24PA "flags" that were on the originals were likely not retained. That may be why FCP isn't seeing the pulldown cadence. I believe the only way to retain those advanced pulldown flags is to dub via firewire.
You can try capturing at 29.97 and running the files through Cinema Tools. Or see if the production company can send you the camera originals.
Jay

Removing Advanced Pulldown from AVI files

I've recently switched from Vegas 4.0 to Final Cut Pro 5.1 and I'm trying to remove the advanced pulldown from my AVI files. I tried using Cinema Tools and it could not use the AVI. Then I tried using FCP tools/remove advanced pulldown option and the file went offline. Can sombody tell me how to do this?
Thanks

It wasn't out of sync before. I shot it on the Panasonic DVX100 in 24pa. Removed the pulldown and edited the film in Vegas. Now I want to transfer it to FCP change it to 16X9 and make a 16X9 24P DVD in DVD Studio Pro. When I did copy it back to tape from Vegas I used LP instead of SP so I could fit the entire movie on a mini dv tape. Maybe that has something to do with it not being able to remove the pulldown during capture? I think I'm going to try and split it up into 2 tapes and record sp mode.
Mac Pro 2.66 Mac OS X (10.4.7) FCS

Files get disconnected after removing advanced pulldown?

What does this message mean during import of a file.
http://screencast.com/t/OF4mSwA90
I got this problem after removing advanced pulldown on standard 24p footage. All the files were crossed out in the browser. i deleted them and re-imported but some are left out with that message on manual import.

The file plays fine in QT but suddenly won't import after attempted removing of advanced pulldown to all clips in the browser. The ones that remained 29.97 due to the inability of Cinema Tools to properly remove the advanced pulldown are the ones giving me the error on import.

Problem removing advanced pulldown

Hi There,
I have some 24p footage I digitized at 29.97 by accident. When I go to the tools menu and select "remove advanced pulldown" i get an error that says "break in advanced pulldown cadence (pattern) found near t." Any ideas?

Are you certain it's 24PA and not 24P?
You might be able to break it into smaller chunks with QT Pro and try removing advanced pulldown on that, but that's just a shot in the dark...
Patrick

Quick question about advanced pulldown

Hi,
So, I am trying to make a MiniDV backup of a 23.98 sequence using FCP 4.5 and a Sony DCR-VX2000 camera. The footage in the sequence is non-time coded 23.98 footage from a DVD. To test if my backups are actually backups that I could later edit in 23.98, I have printed to tape, recaptured and removed the pulldown with either Cinema Tools or using Remove Advanced Pulldown, and placed the recaptured footage in a new 23.98 sequence. However, neither method has worked-- the wrong frames are removed or the captured footage just looked screwed up.
I tried two methods: printed to MiniDV with a 2:3:2:3 pulldown in the Playback settings, recaptured into FCP using normal DV capture, then used Cinema Tools'"batch reverse telecine" to remove the pulldown, then placed the footage in a new 23.98 sequence When that didn't work, I tried a 2:3:3:2 pulldown print to tape and captured using Advanced Pulldown Removal. That looked even worse.
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.3.8)

Well, this is what I did:
I created 4 tests clips, each printed to tape with a different playback setting (2323, 2332, 2224, full quality).
I then recaptured them all using both "Advanced Pulldown Removal" and no pulldown removal with Cinema Tools Batch Reverse Telecine used to remove pulldown on the clips.
Results: The proper frames seemed to be removed when 1) I printed to tape with a 2:2:2:4 pulldown and Reverse Telecined through Cinema Tools and 2) when I printed to tape with Full Quality and used Advanced Pulldown Removal. Nothing else worked.
HOWEVER, with both "succesful" methods, I found that when I played the clips in a 23.98 sequence, they had noise in he picture -- thin black horizontal lines on areas of quick movement. However, when clicked through frame by frame, this noise does not appear.
So, Apple users of ther world, who can explain a) why full quality works with Cinema Tools and b) what to do about the noise in the playback picture (but again not seen frame by frame), and whether it is part of the actual clip or not?
Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.3.8)

Advance pulldown removal problem

There is a bit of info i've found about similar issues but nothing covers my scenario. I captured dvx100a 24pa footage-- but without the advance pulldown removal selected. The clips therefore all had frame rates of 29.97. I then went to tools and added the "*remove advance pulldown*".
Two different things happened to my clips. It's corrupting some clips and not others. Some worked and changed to 23.98 fps. Others instantly went offline and when I tried to reconnect the media from the capture scratch I get this:
"*File Error: 1 file(s) recognized, 0 access denied, 1 unknown*" and I can't reconnect the media--that still plays fine in quicktime from the capture scratch. I have to re-digitize all the random clips that this happens to.
I'm wondering if it might be a fps and timecode issue-- or a codec issue. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
thanks.

Think I figured it out. There was a duplicate folder with the media files on two hard drives and FCP may have been trying to reference both. Deleted one folder and files went offline then when i reconnected the media and applied "remove advance pulldown" it worked this time.

Reconnect media dialogue not working properly after advanced pulldown rem..

i'm running a macpro with the latest version of FCP (5.1.4) and tiger (10.4.9)
i have a project where some of the footage is 24Pa, but was captured as regular 29.97 ntsc footage. because it's 24pa it's creating some interesting banding when i try to export out with out removing the pulldown. in an attempt to remedy this problem i decided to remove the pulldown and export everything as a 23.98 file (it's going on the web)
I selected all the clips that needed to have the pulldown removed and used the "remove advanced pulldown" from the tools menu. fcp went through and processed everything as it should, but when it finished it only reconnected a couple of the clips, leaving the rest offline.
I then selected the offline clips to manually reconnect them, and the reconnect dialogue opens, it lets me choose the files, but it doesn't show the file in the bottom half of the window, but it will continue to let me choose the next file down, the problem is when i hit the end of the list of files to reconnect, it still shows all the files in the top, and none in the bottome, but the "skip" "locate" and "search" button are no longer available and the "connect" button at the bottom is also not available.
i've checked the processed files with quicktime and they all read as 23.98 files now.
I made a copy of all the media files beforehand, so i have all the raw captures as 29.97 clips just as a forethought.
any ideas as to what the issues are? and why the reconnect dialogue is acting so strangely?
2.66 macPro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 2gb ram fcp 5.1.4

This shouldn't work. What the proper way of doing things is to capture, reverse telecine, THEN import into FCP and begin editing. You cannot, AFAIK, edit, then reverse telecine and have it connect. This is because all the original clips are linked to 29.97 media, and you are trying to connect them to 23.98 media...and it doesn't want to because the frame rates differ.
Remove pulldown BEFORE you edit, not after.
Shane

Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine problem-24 vs. 23.98 + sound issue

Hello again folks,
Trying to figure this all out, and thanks in advance for your input; this forum is amazing and has been invaluable!
I've been studying the FCP and CT pdf manuals and lots of links/threads here in the forum to get the proper workflow, have tried it all out, and ran into some problems:
Need to convert--sorry--REVERSE TELECINE--my captured DV 24p (captured at 29.97) footage into 23.98fps to edit in 23.98. Copied some media files so as not to ruin the originals, chose them from project bins, and sent them to CT using FCP'S "Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" (super easy and feeling overconfident). When I checked the footage, two things were odd:
1) My new frame rate was at "24" not "23.98", which I believe I want to be working in in order to achieve my desired finished product (I'm sure I read this in the forum and links, does it matter?), and
2) for kicks, while there in Tools, I tried one clip with "Tools>Remove Advance Pulldown", which did result in the 23.98fps.
3) about 6 seconds into the new 23.98fps clip the sound disappears (I checked and the original clips have good sound throughout).
Any thoughts out there on this. Should I be reversing telecine from within CT (by importing clips), and not from FCP's easy Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
Any links or thoughts to clarify will be received with great admiration and thanks!
Greg
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8) FCP ver.5.1.2. and CT ver.3.1.2
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

Hvx200 1080i 24p Footage not Properly Reverse Telecining

So I've got a bunch of footage that we shot using the 1080i 24p setting on the hvx200 which yielded 24-in-60 footage, which normally isn't a problem and the other 2 cameras we were shooting (an hv20 and hg10, both in 24p mode) produce the same kind of files. after batching everything out to compressor to remove the telecine, and convert to 1920x1080 prores, i just discovered that all the HVX footage is true 24p, but didn't remove the pulldown correctly, and most every frame is now interlaced.
I'm trying to figure out if it's a compressor issue, a dvchdpro issue, or a computer/install issue. I've had some QT plug-ins that break the reverse telecine function, but considering the hv20 and hg10 footage converted just fine i don't think it's that.
also, after trying to convert to directly to prores and run through cinema tools to do a manual RT, i don't get the option to RT. and lastly using JES Deinterlacer when i set it up and submit i get a "cadence not found" error. it's also is reading the file as progressive when i first put it in JES.
I've also tried running the RT through final cut directly as some of those old pany cams have RT flags and FCP can handle the RT process internally.
Any thoughts anyone? has anyone ever run 1080i 24p footage through compressor and achieved a true 24p framerate, or do i have an isolated instance here?

so after sleeping on the problem, i took the footage and ran compressed it out to prores422, this time making sure to select a frame rate of 29.97 AND checking the "interlaced" button on the codec page. after batching the footage to make it true 60i, i then ran it through compressor again to remove the pulldown, and everything worked as it should. I think the problem arose from the footage reporting itself as DVCHD PRO 30P instead of 60i, and compressor wasn't seeing any fields and therefor not seeing any cadence

Reverse Telecine affecting identical clips different ways

I haven't a clue on how to begin searching for this.
I recently had a problem trying to get my Sony HZ5U 24p footage to true 24p instead of 30. It was causing big confusion in Color, blending frames together. Even though I placed the footage in a 24p sequence, it would just frames in unnecessary spots. And Reverse Telecine wouldn't work on footage imported by HDV - 720p24.
I was able to import to HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24, Reverse Telecine, and add the clips into a HDV- 720p24 sequence to get the resolution I need...
Except there's a problem.
Something isn't working when I reverse telecine.
The clips I imported were all 2:3, two frames of the same then three others that were individual.
I "reversed" two clips which came out to 1:1 (I guess), no frames are duplicated. But a few of the clips I reversed came out to 2:2! There are two frames of the same then two others that are individual.
I'm not sure what is wrong. I didn't import with a different setting, I didn't change anything in Final Cut, I didn't adjust anything in Cinema Tools. I never filmed in a separate format...
I have a consistent segment I have to make each week for a program, and it's done this for the past three weeks. And on one of the clips (either the one with 1:1 or 2:2) after I send back from Color the audio is shifted off a few frames.
Why would Reverse Telecine give me different results in the same operation of the same format of video??

remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

24p reverse telecine

I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

workflow:
shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
import/transfer P2 files into FCP
Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

Remove Advanced Pulldown and Reverse Telecine...

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